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Bladder treatment

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You can certainly call the vet and ask them to explain their reasoning for waiting - it may be a reason which makes sense! If not and you are worried you can certainly ask if they will start the course
A final question please. Does bacteria in wee mean its a UTI? he's not displaying UTI symptoms, & hasn't done for 5 days
 
A final question please. Does bacteria in wee mean its a UTI? he's not displaying UTI symptoms, & hasn't done for 5 days

Bacteria in the urine is a urine infection.
Urine is sterile so should not contain bacteria.

I’m sure people can have asymptomatic UTIs - perhaps thats the case with animals also, perhaps the levels aren’t high enough, as I said, we can only guess and it would be worth you checking with the vet for definitive answers.
 
Bacteria in the urine is a urine infection.
Urine is sterile so should not contain bacteria.

I’m sure people can have asymptomatic UTIs - perhaps thats the case with animals also, perhaps the levels aren’t high enough, as I said, we can only guess and it would be worth you checking with the vet for definitive answers.
She mentioned about injecting in his bladder under sedation to get a sample this way, but its invasive, & no way am I putting him through that, & I can't afford anyway
 
Bacteria in the urine is a urine infection.
Urine is sterile so should not contain bacteria.

I’m sure people can have asymptomatic UTIs - perhaps thats the case with animals also, perhaps the levels aren’t high enough, as I said, we can only guess and it would be worth you checking with the vet for definitive answers.
I thought I.C.was characterised by very low levels of bacteria in the bladder that don't respond to antibiotics
 
I thought I.C.was characterised by very low levels of bacteria in the bladder that don't respond to antibiotics

Squeaks has a resistant bacteria - his bacteria is resistant to baytril but would be killed by a different antibiotic.
It’s not the same thing as not responding to antibiotics in the IC sense (IC is no bacteria so there is nothing for antibiotics to treat)
 
Squeaks has a resistant bacteria - his bacteria is resistant to baytril but would be killed by a different antibiotic.
It’s not the same thing as not responding to antibiotics in the IC sense (IC is no bacteria so there is nothing

Squeaks has a resistant bacteria - his bacteria is resistant to baytril but would be killed by a different antibiotic.
It’s not the same thing as not responding to antibiotics in the IC sense (IC is no bacteria so there is nothing for antibiotics to treat)
Is it possible, for bacteria to be picked up after the wee leaves him? I noticed with this latest sample, there were a few hairs in the box where Squeak was when collecting the sample. Vet did mention could be from hairs. As you say, bacteria is infection, but I stopped the metacam from Saturday morning, & he's still fine. UTIs cause pain, surely. Maybe, just maybe, he is ok afterall, & this bacteria is getting into his wee after I gather the sample.
 
Is it possible, for bacteria to be picked up after the wee leaves him? I noticed with this latest sample, there were a few hairs in the box where Squeak was when collecting the sample. Vet did mention could be from hairs. As you say, bacteria is infection, but I stopped the metacam from Saturday morning, & he's still fine. UTIs cause pain, surely. Maybe, just maybe, he is ok afterall, & this bacteria is getting into his wee after I gather the sample.

Yes a sample can get contaminated
 
Sterile interstitial cystitis (sterile IC) is characterised by a lack or only a low presence of bacteria in the urine but is more usually diagnosed by default after all other potential urinary tract problems have been ruled out yet symptoms persist.
It cannot be healed and needs to managed; usually by glucosamine and metacam. The glucosamine is the more important bit since sterile IC seems to particularly affect the insulating glucosamine layer on the walls of the urinary tract that prevents corrosive urine from coming into very painful contact with raw tissue. Once the issue is initially under control your piggy will experience regular flares every few weeks or months. The severity of sterile IC can vary from the really mild to the really bad. Milder to medium cases can be treated with oral glucosamine while for the more severe cases, cartrofen has now been proven to bring relief in any but the very worst cases. Milder to medium cases can go away on their own but you are looking at years rather than months.

Unfortunately, while sterile IC has become increasingly common over the last 15 years and is now more common than a UTI in indoors piggies, it is still mostly unknown outside vet circles dealing frequently with guinea pigs.

What we recommend is to tighten up our normal diet advice a bit further and to not vary as much; you are not aiming for a calcium free diet because that can cause its own problems if you miss the 'sweet spot' in your diet but to further eliminate any veg that is richer in oxalates and which can contribute to the formation of stones. Any new food, like fresh spring grass, you need to introduce even more slowly than with your other indoors piggies after a long winter break.

You CAN feed lettuce to IC piggies that are used to it (it has made frankly not made any difference for my Breila in the four years she had IC) and fresh grass as long as it is on a near daily basis. What our own experiences with IC piggies over the last years have shown that it is more of a matter of new fresh foods being introduced too quickly/too much at once that can trigger a flare. The sensitivities are rather individual than connected to specific foods.
In any case, you will still get your regular flares. It is also going to take a few weeks for the extra glucosamine to build up in the body so it is not an instant fix.
For some reason my update of this chapter has not been saved and the outdated recommendation is still there.
@Piggie&buns @Claire W

Eventually you will have to work out how low you can get with the maintenance meds in between flares and how high you can go to get on top of an acute flare within a few days; upping the glucosamine in a flare is in my own experiments more effective than upping the metacam. Since sterile IC is on a huge sliding scale of severity, you have to do feel your own way in this in every individual case.

@Piggies&buns @Claire W
sorry to jump on this post.. if you suspect IC but don’t have a diagnosis, would it hurt to up glucosamine to see if it makes a difference? i give one cystease a day to my girl.. is it safe to do more?
 
Update. I have a vets appointment booked for Squeak on Monday with a small mammals vet to see why he's still squeaking intermittently when doing a wee. He's previously had an x ray last December which ruled out a bladder stone, & urine looked at twice, & no infection present or crystals. On low calcium diet, filtered water, grain free pellets & fresh foods include romaine, cucumber, pepper, tomato, coriander, little beetroot, mixed lettuce leaves. Apple once a week. Been on cystease for 5 weeks, 1 capsule a day, upped to 2 day since Sunday. Is a great weight of 1.3kg. Still sometimes squeaks when pees. Otherwise very healthy & behaving normally. 8 months old when all this started. He is now 10 months. Also, had his penis checked. Thats fine. So,,,, I hope seeing another vet can get to the bottom of his issue on monday
do you have an update on your boy? i hope hes doing well!🩵
 
do you have an update on your boy? i hope hes doing well!🩵
Hi. I don't know what to think anymore. He's had a urine culture done at the lab. It came back with a small amount of bacteria that is resistant to Baytril which he has been on a month. (Finished 3 weeks ago). Now, vet not absolutely certain the bacteria is from him. The sample could have been contaminated in the container he was in to catch the sample. She said leave him for 2 weeks, & see what happens. Its so hit & miss. He can go a few days with no squeaking, then start again, then a couple days ok again. I'm really struggling to be certain if its a painful squeak, or not,, cos surely, it would happen every single time he did a wee, & not hit & miss. The other issue i have, the vet may prescribe Doxycycline, which I'm worried about the side affects. I'm so stressed with it all. I don't want to put him through treatment, if the sounds he's making, are not pain sounds
 
Hi. I don't know what to think anymore. He's had a urine culture done at the lab. It came back with a small amount of bacteria that is resistant to Baytril which he has been on a month. (Finished 3 weeks ago). Now, vet not absolutely certain the bacteria is from him. The sample could have been contaminated in the container he was in to catch the sample. She said leave him for 2 weeks, & see what happens. Its so hit & miss. He can go a few days with no squeaking, then start again, then a couple days ok again. I'm really struggling to be certain if its a painful squeak, or not,, cos surely, it would happen every single time he did a wee, & not hit & miss. The other issue i have, the vet may prescribe Doxycycline, which I'm worried about the side affects. I'm so stressed with it all. I don't want to put him through treatment, if the sounds he's making, are not pain sounds

oh my gosh sounds like an absolute nightmare😢 i’m so sorry both you and your boy are going through this, was another AB tried? who was taking the sample? id be concerned leaving something for 2 weeks because surely the bacteria would grow in this time frame if he still had some previously on baytril anyway?
yes that must be so hard to determine, my della makes it difficult to determine whats going on with squeaks as she is a bit of a squinny anyway! very strange it keeps starting and stopping, sounds almost to me like flare ups? what other symptoms does he experience? yes i would have thought if it was a bacterial infection it would be every wee but I'm not an expert. do you give him metacam each time it starts again? i don't think i’m familiar with doxycycline? ill have to look into it, what are the side effects? yes i can totally understand why you'd feel that way! it must be very hard not really knowing how he is but i’d say you know him best and if you have any doubt he is in pain then go with your gut.. sending you hugs🩵
 
oh my gosh sounds like an absolute nightmare😢 i’m so sorry both you and your boy are going through this, was another AB tried? who was taking the sample? id be concerned leaving something for 2 weeks because surely the bacteria would grow in this time frame if he still had some previously on baytril anyway?
yes that must be so hard to determine, my della makes it difficult to determine whats going on with squeaks as she is a bit of a squinny anyway! very strange it keeps starting and stopping, sounds almost to me like flare ups? what other symptoms does he experience? yes i would have thought if it was a bacterial infection it would be every wee but I'm not an expert. do you give him metacam each time it starts again? i don't think i’m familiar with doxycycline? ill have to look into it, what are the side effects? yes i can totally understand why you'd feel that way! it must be very hard not really knowing how he is but i’d say you know him best and if you have any doubt he is in pain then go with your gut.. sending you hugs🩵
Hi the vet wanted to leave it 2 weeks, as even she is uncertain if the bacteria in the urine sample was actually from him. Now, while he was in the container waiting for him to wee, there ended up quite a few hairs in there as he is moulting,, so its very possible the bacteria could actually have come from the hairs. Vet did mention it could even be the hairs. He is always on metacam when on antibiotics,, but to be honest, he did still have this certain squeak while taking it. Thats what makes me think,,, is it actually a pain squeak. I just don't know. Its not a very loud squeak or squeal. To be honest, there's no change in him whether on treatment or not. He has no other symptoms. He eats loads, drinks enough, plays, chases, popcorn etc. He has never behaved like a piggie with a UTI. He has no stones or crystals in his wee. There is no bad urine smell. Surely if he was poorly, he wouldn't be active. This is the dilemma I keep facing. I don't want to keep putting medication into him, if there is nothing wrong with him.
 
Hi. Some of you are familiar with my boy Squeak. So, quick question please. I know they have scent gland. Well, do they scent mark with urine too? After 4 days of squeak free wees( if its pain), he was squeaking again last night. He did a number of little wees in succession, in different parts of the cage, & squeaked each time, then he started chirping for a few seconds. I still think his vocal isn't pain, as he goes a few days without making this sound. Last night, I deep cleaned the cage, & he probably wasn't happy that his scent had gone. Could it be now possible, that this sound is when he's annoyed rather than pain? Truth is,,, this has been going on for 5 months now, & he's no different on treatment than he is off it
 
I don’t believe male guinea pigs scent with pee, but they have been known to mark sows as theirs with pee or spray at a overly dominant companion.

Are you sure he was peeing? Did you check where he was sat etc?

Chirping is a somewhat unknown sound, but in most cases signals distress or fear.
Did something happen for your boy to be scared?

Pigs all make different noises, some strange, but it is good to keep an eye on them and try and find what the origins are if you are unsure.
Especially in a sick piggie, is squeak by himself?
 
I don’t believe male guinea pigs scent with pee, but they have been known to mark sows as theirs with pee or spray at a overly dominant companion.

Are you sure he was peeing? Did you check where he was sat etc?

Chirping is a somewhat unknown sound, but in most cases signals distress or fear.
Did something happen for your boy to be scared?

Pigs all make different noises, some strange, but it is good to keep an eye on them and try and find what the origins are if you are unsure.
Especially in a sick piggie, is squeak by himself?
Nothing was any different last night, other than a disinfected cage with pet safe cleaner. Squeak has a brother, Bubble. He has no symptoms of illness. He's been on antibiotics on & off since December, & metacam, but was no different on them as he is off them. He's absolutely fine in himself. He's not behaving poorly at all, & never has done. He rarely makes this sound in the day. Its alwsys evening time, but not every evening. He went 4 days last week, & 3 days this week without making it. He has no stones. I just don't want to pump more treatment in him if there's nothing wrong with him. The vet as examined his body, 4 times, pressing everywhere, & he made no sound of pain whatsoever
 
My boys scent mark by dragging their bottoms along the floor. But they also used to drip a bit of pee when they were having a small argument and chasing each other out of the best hiding place.
 
My boys scent mark by dragging their bottoms along the floor. But they also used to drip a bit of pee when they were having a small argument and chasing each other out of the best hiding place.
Did they squeak though when doing this?
 
Yes they would be squeaking while doing it. But they would be “talking” to each other if that makes sense?
 
Even my two single piggies scent mark and squeak and chat to each other even though they don’t share a cage
 
Hi. Some of you are familiar with my boy Squeak. So, quick question please. I know they have scent gland. Well, do they scent mark with urine too? After 4 days of squeak free wees( if its pain), he was squeaking again last night. He did a number of little wees in succession, in different parts of the cage, & squeaked each time, then he started chirping for a few seconds. I still think his vocal isn't pain, as he goes a few days without making this sound. Last night, I deep cleaned the cage, & he probably wasn't happy that his scent had gone. Could it be now possible, that this sound is when he's annoyed rather than pain? Truth is,,, this has been going on for 5 months now, & he's no different on treatment than he is off it

Hi

Boars will use their testosterone laden for scent marking (especially when meeting sows) but it is no way painful or connected with the symptoms you are describing.
These are consistent with a urinary tract infection (UTI) or with a sterile (i.e. non-bacterial and therefore antibiotic resistant) interstitial cystitis (a regularly recurring bladder infection - sterile IC -, which especially affects the natural insulating glucosamine coating of the walls of the urinary tract, which prevents highly corrosive urine from coming into very painful contact with raw tissue.

Lots of little painful pees are characteristic for infection, the same as we experience a urine infection.
PS: Sterile IC can only be managed by daily glucosamine supplements and metacam as both a painkiller and anti-inflammatory. Since sterile IC can range from very mild to very severe, you will have to work out how low you can gow between flare-ups and how high you have to go to get a flare under control ideally within 2-3 days again. Sterile IC is most commonly diagnosed by default after any other problems in the urinary tract have been excluded since symptoms for all issues are very similar. It is characterised by no or a low bacterial count - more usually the latter than the former. Mild to medium IC can go away on its own eventually, but you are looking more at a matter of years rather than months.
Here is some more information for you and your vet to pursue: Links - Interstitial Cystitis - Guinea Lynx Records
 
I’m going to merge this with your other thread because there is so much background to squeaks’s situation and his current diagnosis of baytril resistant bacteria in his urine
 
I’m going to merge this with your other thread because there is so much background to squeaks’s situation and his current diagnosis of baytril resistant bacteria in his urine
But the vet isn’t sure the bacteria is from him, as there were hairs in the container where I wait for him to wee. He was moulting at the time, & I didn't see these hairs until I was taking the sample. I think this is why the vet said leave him 2 weeks & see what happens. He's been off metacam 11 days now, & there's no worsening in his health whatsoever, thats why I still question if it is pain or not. He goes a few days then has a couple hours of few squeaks, then ok again fir a few days.
 
But the vet isn’t sure the bacteria is from him, as there were hairs in the container where I wait for him to wee. He was moulting at the time, & I didn't see these hairs until I was taking the sample. I think this is why the vet said leave him 2 weeks & see what happens. He's been off metacam 11 days now, & there's no worsening in his health whatsoever, thats why I still question if it is pain or not. He goes a few days then has a couple hours of few squeaks, then ok again fir a few days.

If nothing has changed in 11 days then it would stand to reason he isn’t in pain. He is going to chat Bubbles and given they are crepuscular the fact he makes the noises more only in the evening and when in the playpen would make sense in that respect.
 
If nothing has changed in 11 days then it would stand to reason he isn’t in pain. He is going to chat Bubbles and given they are crepuscular the fact he makes the noises more only in the evening and when in the playpen would make sense in that respect.
Oh yes, never thought of that. They are crepusular. More active Dawn & dusk. Its just he had one of those evenings last night. Soon as I put him back in the cage, he started, then did a faint chirp for a few seconds.
 
If nothing has changed in 11 days then it would stand to reason he isn’t in pain. He is going to chat Bubbles and given they are crepuscular the fact he makes the noises more only in the evening and when in the playpen would make sense in that respect.
Its never a UTI. he was doing free flowing wees in the pen for 3 nights running, & not a sound. The wee isn't smelly. His behaviour is absolutely normal like its always been since this all started early December. With been a first time owner, its hard to know what sounds mean what, as this has been a new sound since December, & when he wees, but certainly not everytime
 
Its never a UTI. he was doing free flowing wees in the pen for 3 nights running, & not a sound. The wee isn't smelly. His behaviour is absolutely normal like its always been since this all started early December. With been a first time owner, its hard to know what sounds mean what, as this has been a new sound since December, & when he wees, but certainly not everytime

So by definition bacteria in urine is a UTI.

Did you clean the cage while they were in the playpen?
If I clean out my boys cages while they aren’t in it (usually I just clean with them still in there) I do find they react quite a bit to coming back home and finding none of their scent left in the cage (they run about checking everything, marking and chatting to each other)
 
So by definition bacteria in urine is a UTI.

Did you clean the cage while they were in the playpen?
If I clean out my boys cages while they aren’t in it (usually I just clean with them still in there) I do find they react quite a bit to coming back home and finding none of their scent left in the cage (they run about checking everything, marking and chatting to each other)
Yes, bacteria in wee is a UTI, but there is some uncertainty whether the bacteria in the urine is actually from him. Vet mentioned about inserting a needle directly into his bladder to get a more sterile sample, but says its invasive, & I don't want to put him through it, & there's the cost. If she was certain the bacteria was from his bladder, & not from hairs etc, he would be on treatment now, & not leave him 2 weeks. Yes, I always clean the cage when in the playpen, but they are still in the cage in the morning when I do a spot clean
 
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