Bladder treatment

[Piggies&buns]

Ok, so it meets welfare requirements but boars do tend to benefit from more space. As long as they aren’t having space related issues, then it’s fine.
I might actually, in your position, put the playpen fleece in their cage, or rub it along their bodies, or on their hides etc just to transfer smells in the hours before they go in the pen if the fleece has been recently washed. It might not make any difference whatsoever but it’s just a thought if he is upset by the change in territory and causing these symptoms.

 

[Mclayton]

Ok, so it meets welfare requirements but boars do tend to benefit from more space. As long as they aren’t having space related issues, then it’s fine.
I might actually, in your position, put the playpen fleece in their cage, or rub it along their bodies, or on their hides etc just to transfer smells in the hours before they go in the pen if the fleece has been recently washed. It might not make any difference whatsoever but it’s just a thought if he is upset by the change in territory and causing these symptoms.

Thank you so much. There is just one other thing. When he had a spell of no treatment, which was about 6 weeks,, there was no squeaky wees. Surely its not the antibiotics causing this . I don't know anymore.

 

[Mclayton]

Ok, so it meets welfare requirements but boars do tend to benefit from more space. As long as they aren’t having space related issues, then it’s fine.
I might actually, in your position, put the playpen fleece in their cage, or rub it along their bodies, or on their hides etc just to transfer smells in the hours before they go in the pen if the fleece has been recently washed. It might not make any difference whatsoever but it’s just a thought if he is upset by the change in territory and causing these symptoms.

There isn't a space issue with them. They are very bonded now, & they love to sit on top of their wooden houses as its flat. One morning I got up,,, they were both together on top of one house! VERY cute!

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you so much. There is just one other thing. When he had a spell of no treatment, which was about 6 weeks,, there was no squeaky wees. Surely it’s not the antibiotics causing this . I don't know anymore.

He was put on the antibiotic because bacteria was found so presumably the symptoms started before he was on antibiotics. What you are asking is the opposite - are the antibiotics making him ill. So antibiotics do have the potential to upset the appetite and to upset the gut but it’s more normal to see soft poops in that case.

What this is more coming down to is whether the antibiotics are curing the issue in which case it is an infection and not IC.
If there is little to no bacteria, the antibiotics are not curing it (because there is nothing to cure) and are only suppressing symptoms - symptoms either improve a little but don’t go away or return after the antibiotic course finishes - then that is when IC comes into play. It’s then management not cure.

 

[Mclayton]

He was put on the antibiotic because bacteria was found so presumably the symptoms started before he was on antibiotics. What you are asking is the opposite - are the antibiotics making him ill. So antibiotics do have the potential to upset the appetite and to upset the gut but it’s more normal to see soft poops in that case.

What this is more coming down to is whether the antibiotics are curing the issue in which case it is an infection and not IC.
If there is little to no bacteria, the antibiotics are not curing it (because there is nothing to cure) and are only suppressing symptoms - symptoms either improve a little but don’t go away or return after the antibiotic course finishes - then that is when IC comes into play. It’s then management not cure.

Yes, thank you.

 

[Mclayton]

Ok, so it meets welfare requirements but boars do tend to benefit from more space. As long as they aren’t having space related issues, then it’s fine.
I might actually, in your position, put the playpen fleece in their cage, or rub it along their bodies, or on their hides etc just to transfer smells in the hours before they go in the pen if the fleece has been recently washed. It might not make any difference whatsoever but it’s just a thought if he is upset by the change in territory and causing these symptoms.

Just a mystery why he can go a day, upto 3 days, even 6 weeks, not long ago, with no squeaky wee at all, then he's not stop for a few hours.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Just a mystery why he can go a day, upto 3 days, even 6 weeks, not long ago, with no squeaky wee at all, then he's not stop for a few hours.

If he has an infection then he is only going to have to potential to be in pain when the infection is present. The fact he went six weeks without any pain would be normal as he didn’t have an infection in those weeks. Was he on pain meds in those six weeks?

It’s not uncommon for diagnosed IC piggies to have that kind of intermittent pain (which is why glucosamine and pain meds at a maintenance dose help control it) but it’s also a mystery why it’s only at a certain time of day and why only in the playpen and that is what seems to muddy it coupled with the fact he is on good dose of dog metacam so should be under control - you would think a piggy in pain where meds aren’t managing it would be in pain no matter the time or location.
Is it he is uncomfortable (feelings wise) in the playpen and causes physical symptoms of a medical issue to come to the fore (we know IC is stress related), or is he just being noisy. If it doesnt occur every time he is in the playpen then being uncomfortable in there may not be a consideration either.

You need those results and vet advice on what to do going forward - would the vet think it worth taking him off or lowering the dose of pain meds when he is confirmed over the infection, and seeing what happens etc - if everything remains as it is, then he may not be in pain. If he quickly deteriorates then pain is likely and he’d need to go back on meds.

 

[Mclayton]

If he has an infection then he is only going to have to potential to be in pain when the infection is present. The fact he went six weeks without any pain would be normal as he didn’t have an infection in those weeks. Was he on pain meds in those six weeks?

It’s not uncommon for diagnosed IC piggies to have that kind of intermittent pain (which is why glucosamine and pain meds at a maintenance dose help control it) but it’s also a mystery why it’s only at a certain time of day and why only in the playpen and that is what seems to muddy it coupled with the fact he is on good dose of dog metacam so should be under control - you would think a piggy in pain where meds aren’t managing it would be in pain no matter the time or location.
Is it he is uncomfortable (feelings wise) in the playpen and causes physical symptoms of a medical issue to come to the fore (we know IC is stress related), or is he just being noisy. If it doesnt occur every time he is in the playpen then being uncomfortable in there may not be a consideration either.

You need those results and vet advice on what to do going forward - would the vet think it worth taking him off or lowering the dose of pain meds when he is confirmed over the infection, and seeing what happens etc - if everything remains as it is, then he may not be in pain. If he quickly deteriorates then pain is likely and he’d need to go back on meds.

He was on no meds during the 6 weeks. Thank you so much for everything

 

[Piggies&buns]

He was on no meds during the 6 weeks. Thank you so much for everything

So should it be IC, he would probably have needed to have on painkillers at least to keep him comfortable during those six weeks. To me this adds a bit more weight to the fact he has just been unlucky with infections (aside from the fact bacteria has been present every time!) - it’s not something else causing him pain otherwise those six weeks would have been uncomfortable for him.
If he gets another infection weeks after this one is cured, then that is something to explore - why is he getting so many bacterial infections.

Keep us posted

 

[Mclayton]

If he has an infection then he is only going to have to potential to be in pain when the infection is present. The fact he went six weeks without any pain would be normal as he didn’t have an infection in those weeks. Was he on pain meds in those six weeks?

It’s not uncommon for diagnosed IC piggies to have that kind of intermittent pain (which is why glucosamine and pain meds at a maintenance dose help control it) but it’s also a mystery why it’s only at a certain time of day and why only in the playpen and that is what seems to muddy it coupled with the fact he is on good dose of dog metacam so should be under control - you would think a piggy in pain where meds aren’t managing it would be in pain no matter the time or location.
Is it he is uncomfortable (feelings wise) in the playpen and causes physical symptoms of a medical issue to come to the fore (we know IC is stress related), or is he just being noisy. If it doesnt occur every time he is in the playpen then being uncomfortable in there may not be a consideration either.

You need those results and vet advice on what to do going forward - would the vet think it worth taking him off or lowering the dose of pain meds when he is confirmed over the infection, and seeing what happens etc - if everything remains as it is, then he may not be in pain. If he quickly deteriorates then pain is likely and he’d need to go back on meds.

His antibiotics ended 2 days ago, but I'm still giving him 0.3mls metacam twice a day.

 

[Mclayton]

So should it be IC, he would probably have needed to have on painkillers at least to keep him comfortable during those six weeks. To me this adds a bit more weight to the fact he has just been unlucky with infections (aside from the fact bacteria has been present every time!) - it’s not something else causing him pain otherwise those six weeks would have been uncomfortable for him.
If he gets another infection weeks after this one is cured, then that is something to explore - why is he getting so many bacterial infections.

Keep us posted

I spot clean the cage every morning, & full clean every night. There's no redness, soreness around his private parts. I'm very clean with their environment

 

[Piggies&buns]

His antibiotics ended 2 days ago, but I'm still giving him 0.3mls metacam twice a day.

I spot clean the cage every morning, & full clean every night. There's no redness, soreness around his private parts. I'm very clean with their environment

As I said, at 0.3mls of dog metacam twice a day I would expect any pain to be under control.
If his meds aren’t enough, I would expect him to be displaying pain a lot more than he is (i don’t think it would just be after 6pm and when in the playpen).
If antibiotics end and he displays an increase in symptoms after the end of the course, then it’s always possible the course may not have been long enough (I knew it was two weeks for this course) and bacteria has not be fully eradicated.

I wasn’t questioning your cleanliness, more that if there is something going wrong in him for him to pick up multiple infections.

You shouldn’t necessarily need to be fully cleaning out all shavings every night (although if he is getting infections it may be wise that you do). My lot are on shavings (well, snowflake softchip so not actually shavings) and spot cleaned each day, fully cleaned once a week (twice in summer given they are outdoors).

 

[Mclayton]

As I said, at 0.3mls of dog metacam twice a day I would expect any pain to be under control.
If his meds aren’t enough, I would expect him to be displaying pain a lot more than he is (i don’t think it would just be after 6pm and when in the playpen).
If antibiotics end and he displays an increase in symptoms after the end of the course, then it’s always possible the course may not have been long enough (I knew it was two weeks for this course) and bacteria has not be fully eradicated.

I wasn’t questioning your cleanliness, more that if there is something going wrong in him for him to pick up multiple infections.

You shouldn’t necessarily need to be fully cleaning out all shavings every night (although if he is getting infections it may be wise that you do). My lot are on shavings (well, snowflake softchip so not actually shavings) and spot cleaned each day, fully cleaned once a week (twice in summer given they are outdoors).

I clean every night with been a smallish cage. He's been on Baytril for 4 weeks. It was increased

 

[Mclayton]

As I said, at 0.3mls of dog metacam twice a day I would expect any pain to be under control.
If his meds aren’t enough, I would expect him to be displaying pain a lot more than he is (i don’t think it would just be after 6pm and when in the playpen).
If antibiotics end and he displays an increase in symptoms after the end of the course, then it’s always possible the course may not have been long enough (I knew it was two weeks for this course) and bacteria has not be fully eradicated.

I wasn’t questioning your cleanliness, more that if there is something going wrong in him for him to pick up multiple infections.

You shouldn’t necessarily need to be fully cleaning out all shavings every night (although if he is getting infections it may be wise that you do). My lot are on shavings (well, snowflake softchip so not actually shavings) and spot cleaned each day, fully cleaned once a week (twice in summer given they are outdoors).

So you recommend snowflake soft chip? I'm looking to change, as I'm paying alot for only a 3.6kg bag of wood shavings

 

[Piggies&buns]

I use a variety of beddings - snowflake soft chip from local farm at £8 for a 20kg bale (I do have six animals though) , or megazorb which I get from Amazon but that is more expensive

 

[Mclayton]

I use a variety of beddings - snowflake soft chip from local farm at £8 for a 20kg bale (I do have six animals though) , or megazorb which I get from Amazon but that is more expensive

Is this what you mean?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Is this what you mean?

Yes. I really love it. Wet bits hold together and are easily removed and as it compresses down loose poops can be brushed off the surface, all without removing unsoiled bedding.

 

[Mclayton]

Yes. I really love it. Wet bits hold together and are easily removed and as it compresses down loose poops can be brushed off the surface, all without removing unsoiled bedding.

Well, how strange! They were both in their pen, at around 4.30. All ok, then, as usual, after 6, a squeaky wee. This time, instead of leaving him in the pen, I put him back in the clean cage. He's been fine ever since. Do have to say though,, even cage a little small, they both do seem happier in there, than the pen these days. Just proves rules can be broken. The bigger the cage, isn't always the best. Not for my piggies anyway. I'm with them loads, & they do seem happier in their usual home

 

[Piggies&buns]

Well, how strange! They were both in their pen, at around 4.30. All ok, then, as usual, after 6, a squeaky wee. This time, instead of leaving him in the pen, I put him back in the clean cage. He's been fine ever since. Do have to say though,, even cage a little small, they both do seem happier in there, than the pen these days. Just proves rules can be broken. The bigger the cage, isn't always the best. Not for my piggies anyway. I'm with them loads, & they do seem happier in their usual home

It is probably much more to do with familiar territory of the cage and feeling safe in there, nothing to do with its actual size.

I'm glad he is fine now.

 

[Mclayton]

It is probably much more to do with familiar territory of the cage and feeling safe in there, nothing to do with its actual size.

I'm glad he is fine now.

Maybe coincidence who knows, but he's a happy chappy tonight. At least better night's sleep for me. I worry about him. I'm on my own, no family as such, no kids. My piggies are my kids ❤ I did put their 2 houses in the playpen. Didn't seem enough for him though.

 

[Mclayton]

It is probably much more to do with familiar territory of the cage and feeling safe in there, nothing to do with its actual size.

I'm glad he is fine now.

Well, I'm trying something else from tomorrow. Bubbles wees are perfect. Not white at all, or very very little. When Squesk does a squeaky wee, like just,,, his wee is very white. I'm wondering if it is too much cystease. Bubble only has half a day, Squeak has a whole one. From tomorrow, will just try him on half, like Bubble. I don't feel its stones, or I.C. & I know, they can do squeaky wees if passing a little too much calcium. Its worth a try, anyway. His scan on his bladder proved fine on feb 6th,, & you said if its fine, cystease won't do anything anyway. I'm going to try, at least, for few days.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Well, I'm trying something else from tomorrow. Bubbles wees are perfect. Not white at all, or very very little. When Squesk does a squeaky wee, like just,,, his wee is very white. I'm wondering if it is too much cystease. Bubble only has half a day, Squeak has a whole one. From tomorrow, will just try him on half, like Bubble. I don't feel its stones, or I.C. & I know, they can do squeaky wees if passing a little too much calcium. Its worth a try, anyway. His scan on his bladder proved fine on feb 6th,, & you said if its fine, cystease won't do anything anyway. I'm going to try, at least, for few days.

His calcium wees may not have anything to do with the cytease but It’s certainly worth a try. I mean, if there is no reason for them to be having cytease then they obviously don’t need it!
The only time any of my animals have been given any supplement is when it’s genuinely needed -

 

[Mclayton]

His calcium wees may not have anything to do with the cytease but It’s certainly worth a try. I mean, if there is no reason for them to be having cytease then they obviously don’t need it!
The only time any of my animals have been given any supplement is when it’s genuinely needed -

Yes,, this is what I mean. All his tests on his bladder,,, x ray scan, urinalysis twice, all proved negative. Its not going to harm him, cutting it down by half. I wish I could get to the bottom of all this. When his wees are very white,, he squeaks. Probably infection has gone now after a month on Baytril. Wish the lab results would return. Didn't expect it to take this long

 

[Mclayton]

His calcium wees may not have anything to do with the cytease but It’s certainly worth a try. I mean, if there is no reason for them to be having cytease then they obviously don’t need it!
The only time any of my animals have been given any supplement is when it’s genuinely needed -

So, today, he's not had his morning Metacam dose, & upto now, 5.45pm, there's no change, no squeaking. Early days I know. I just have to know if the sound is pain or not. Rang vets today. Still no culture results back. Its going to be chased up on Monday

 

[Mclayton]

So, today, he's not had his morning Metacam dose, & upto now, 5.45pm, there's no change, no squeaking. Early days I know. I just have to know if the sound is pain or not. Rang vets today. Still no culture results back. Its going to be chased up on Monday

2 days now without Metacam, & STILL no squeaky wees! Obviously wasn't pain then

 

[Piggies&buns]

2 days now without Metacam, & STILL no squeaky wees! Obviously wasn't pain then

That’s good news.
Have you been putting him in the playpen?

 

[Mclayton]

That’s good news.
Have you been putting him in the playpen?

Yes I have. But a routine is developing here. He goes in at 5, with his brother, & about 8, he's asking to come out. He does have fun in his pen, zoomies, popcorning, napping etc, but I know there behaviour now, & I know when he wants go back home. So, back in the cage now, & stuffing his face on hay as usual!

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yes I have. But a routine is developing here. He goes in at 5, with his brother, & about 8, he's asking to come out. He does have fun in his pen, zoomies, popcorning, napping etc, but I know there behaviour now, & I know when he wants go back home. So, back in the cage now, & stuffing his face on hay as usual!

Thats really good! They sound happy!

 

[Mclayton]

Thats really good! They sound happy!

So, a 3rd night,,, no squeaky wees! only 2 things I've changed since his last squeak night, Friday. Thats stop the metacam,, reduce the cystease. Whatever is going on,,, seems to be working. Maybe infection gone,, whatever,,, he's very happy right now, & both napping in their pen after new toys & a good chase

 

[Mclayton]

So, a 3rd night,,, no squeaky wees! only 2 things I've changed since his last squeak night, Friday. Thats stop the metacam,, reduce the cystease. Whatever is going on,,, seems to be working. Maybe infection gone,, whatever,,, he's very happy right now, & both napping in their pen after new toys & a good chase

Spoke too soon, as usual. Since going back in his cage, 3 squeaky wees. Now, I really do not know what to do. I thought I had solved it