Who’s struggling?

Tigermoth said:
I may bespeaking out of turn, and if so I’m sorry, but you say you didn’t expect to get the opportunity to have children. There is lot of evidence out there that says mothers who have faced conception challenges have a higher rate of postnatal depression than average. I guess this is because when you are hoping and hoping and trying and trying, you grieve what you are hoping for, a gorgeous bouncing baby. Your brain doesn’t balance that with all the tough and horrible bits that come with babies. So those horrible bits hit even harder because you are supposed to just be so stinking grateful (thanks King Charles for the socially acceptable expletive) for the realisation of your dream. So do see a doctor if you are properly struggling as the sleep deprivation feeds that too. And it’s ok to not feel very grateful and to feel pretty stinking miserable at 3am!

I used to say I wished that a little light went on your roof when you were up with a baby so that you could look out of the windows and see the lights and feel much less alone.
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I can't really compare as I just have the one baby but I could see how that could be the case. Our conception was very medical based as the pain from my endometriosis meant it needed to happen asap otherwise I was in increasing levels of pain. Then add to that a missed miscarriage. The pregnancy was awful and I can now see that I started with depression around the end of Nov/beginning of dec and she was born end of March. I didn't pack an emergency bag until I was 38 weeks as I still expected something to go wrong. I think somewhere in your mind you still try to muddle through and do everything yourself because "I'm the one that wanted this"
 
@poggle ive just caught up with yesterdays paper…. and this little bit of info was in it …..worth a try ! 🥰
Fingers crossed for you and sending much love as you cope with this 🥰❤️
 

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VickiA said:
Hang in there @poggle. It feels like it’s going on forever when you are sleep deprived, but things will improve. So good to hear your husband has helped out and given you a period of unbroken sleep so that you can recharge your batteries. I remember those days so well despite them being over 22 years ago. I had premature twins who took it in turns to wake at various times in the night. MrA went out to work and needed his sleep, but we agreed that Friday and Saturday nights were “his” so that I could have a decent sleep for a couple of nights a week. I also changed my routine to get sleep when I could - went to bed earlier so that I could bank a couple of hours before one of the terrors woke up - and napped in the day when they did. We muddled through. It wasn’t fun or easy. But it didn’t last forever!
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It has certainly been the longest (but also somehow zooming by) four months of my life! I can't imagine doing this with twins, that sounds incredibly difficult 😬 For us I think this phase has been particularly tough because our small one slept so badly as a newborn and we basically slept in shifts for a couple of months, barely seeing each other, and we'd just started to have a taste of normal life again.


Tigermoth said:
I may bespeaking out of turn, and if so I’m sorry, but you say you didn’t expect to get the opportunity to have children. There is lot of evidence out there that says mothers who have faced conception challenges have a higher rate of postnatal depression than average. I guess this is because when you are hoping and hoping and trying and trying, you grieve what you are hoping for, a gorgeous bouncing baby. Your brain doesn’t balance that with all the tough and horrible bits that come with babies. So those horrible bits hit even harder because you are supposed to just be so stinking grateful (thanks King Charles for the socially acceptable expletive) for the realisation of your dream. So do see a doctor if you are properly struggling as the sleep deprivation feeds that too. And it’s ok to not feel very grateful and to feel pretty stinking miserable at 3am!

I used to say I wished that a little light went on your roof when you were up with a baby so that you could look out of the windows and see the lights and feel much less alone.
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Thank you, you're not speaking out of turn at all. My journey was a casual "conception will be a challenge at best, most likely not possible" from a doctor following a diagnosis at 20 followed by over a decade of worry and some other, not so pretty emotions. In hindsight I think I'd challenge them more, but I was young and I just took it straight to heart.

I don't think we've tipped into anything clinical, just some as you say some quite reasonable reactions to tough times. I certainly feel the need now to caveat everything - "I love my baby but..." "I love being a mother, but..." "I'm so grateful he's here, but..." - whenever I'm not "loving every minute", as I feel I'm expected to.


weepweeps said:
You are doing absolutely nothing wrong. Kids are hard. My two are 23 and 21. Gosh I remember the broken sleep. My 8 month old stopped napping. But then was grumpy all day and evening till bedtime. She refused to go in a pushchair from 22 months even though I had just had her brother and REALLY needed them both contained lol. You will get through this and things will get better. But at the time you won’t believe us. Lol. Hang on in there.
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Thank you, I understand better now why new parents were often so shirty when I complained about being tired before - there's something so relentless and chronic about the sleep deprivation with babies, it's like comparing apples and oranges. I will trust you, although it sounds like there's plenty of sleep challenges to look forward to yet :))


Roselina said:
@poggle ive just caught up with yesterdays paper…. and this little bit of info was in it …..worth a try ! 🥰
Fingers crossed for you and sending much love as you cope with this 🥰❤️
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Thank you for thinking of me, I will make sure I keep an eye on the time before putting him down today! I'll try just about anything at this point 😂😅
 
We understand Poggle and are here for you whatever …..keep going and it’s ok to ‘not like’ some of the times ….it’s v hard 🥰
 
My third son was a challenge. I had an 8 year old, 6 year old and a newborn, it was the summer holidays and the baby was very hungry and he needed "plugging in" every 2 hours day and night! It seemed like i was never going to end. The sleepless nights were awful, the sleep deprivation was even worse as I had to stay awake for the other two and couldn't go to have a quick nap. After about 6 months it did get easier when the baby started to sleep at night time only waking up for 1 feed. Although we loved Son No 3 unconditionally we didn't like him sometimes. That feeling is OK. Don't feel like you should "love every minute of it". I certainly didn't love every minute - babies are hard work! All people ever see are mothers/fathers pushing prams with cute little babies in them who are fast asleep. What they don't realise is that the baby is fast asleep because it has been screaming all night and the mothers/fathers are taking the baby out for a walk in the hope that they get some peace!
 
Betsy said:
My third son was a challenge. I had an 8 year old, 6 year old and a newborn, it was the summer holidays and the baby was very hungry and he needed "plugging in" every 2 hours day and night! It seemed like i was never going to end. The sleepless nights were awful, the sleep deprivation was even worse as I had to stay awake for the other two and couldn't go to have a quick nap. After about 6 months it did get easier when the baby started to sleep at night time only waking up for 1 feed. Although we loved Son No 3 unconditionally we didn't like him sometimes. That feeling is OK. Don't feel like you should "love every minute of it". I certainly didn't love every minute - babies are hard work! All people ever see are mothers/fathers pushing prams with cute little babies in them who are fast asleep. What they don't realise is that the baby is fast asleep because it has been screaming all night and the mothers/fathers are taking the baby out for a walk in the hope that they get some peace!
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I am sorry you are going through this @poggle it does get better. I used to grab sleep when I could and made that a priority over housework etc. If the baby slept so did I!

When I was expecting no.3 someone told me 3 is far more than one more than two. I have to agree with that one! My no.3 was very difficult, if no.1 one had been like her I'd have only had one. We love our children unconditionally but we don't have to like them all the time. The funny thing is I'm closest to no.3 now. No one prepares us to be parents, babies don't come with a handbook, we just muddle along and do the best we can, every baby/child and situation is different. I found by the time you get into the routine of one sleep pattern and adjust your day to suit baby, baby changes the rules!
 
I feel for you @poggle We have a saying in our house "The days are long, but the nights are longer" when talking about babies. I have three children and they all have been so different sleepers. My first had colic and cried ALL. THE. TIME. I about lost my mind. The second slept like a dream. Put her down when she would be awake, and then would fall asleep on her own. My third required so much rocking to go to sleep. My husband worked with him last year (he is now 4 years old) and he is now sleeping fine on his own.

I feel the biggest issues causing sleep problems at that age is they really do start needing more to eat. Formula or breast milk just can't keep their little tummies fed for long. Hopefully your little baby will start settling into a better routine for the whole family!
 
RedLoredAmazon said:
I feel for you @poggle We have a saying in our house "The days are long, but the nights are longer" when talking about babies. I have three children and they all have been so different sleepers. My first had colic and cried ALL. THE. TIME. I about lost my mind. The second slept like a dream. Put her down when she would be awake, and then would fall asleep on her own. My third required so much rocking to go to sleep. My husband worked with him last year (he is now 4 years old) and he is now sleeping fine on his own.

I feel the biggest issues causing sleep problems at that age is they really do start needing more to eat. Formula or breast milk just can't keep their little tummies fed for long. Hopefully your little baby will start settling into a better routine for the whole family!
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I’m afraid I’m going to put my professional hat on here and say that the recommendation is that babies need no more than milk until (at least) six months.
 
Tigermoth said:
I’m afraid I’m going to put my professional hat on here and say that the recommendation is that babies need no more than milk until (at least) six months.
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Yes! I do agree! I guess I should have worded that better. My experience was that my babies started sleeping better once they were old enough for food. Food seems to take longer to digest than just from when I nursed them. I enjoyed that time of my life, but also am very glad it is done now. Hopefully I am wording this better. It's been a very trying week for me and I am exhausted. My autistic 4 year old had his tonsils and adenoids removed on Tuesday.
 
Tigermoth said:
I’m afraid I’m going to put my professional hat on here and say that the recommendation is that babies need no more than milk until (at least) six months.
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The advice on when to start solid food has changed only in the last 20 years. My first baby (now 22) started wanting lots more breastfeeds before 3 months and we could start on baby rice at 3 months. By the time number 2 was born in 2004, we were told to wait until 6 months, luckily son no2 wasn't so demanding 😀
 
Advice changes as science advances. So much more is understood these days and the advice is trying to keep baby the safest. Lying down position advice hasn't changed since the early 90s for example but there are a lot less baby deaths as a result.
Same with feeding. People told me about formula helping baby sleep. Well in the 70s/80s it did as it was padded out to fill tummies more. Again there were more cases of SIDS and these days formula isn't allowed to do that.
It's common for breastfed babies to cluster feed especially in the evenings/at night. More so when they are going through a developmental phase.

At the end of the day babies have in built defence mechanisms to keep them safe. They want to be held by parents constantly, they don't want to be left alone, because they don't want to be left behind or more susceptible to predators. In that respect, we are the only species that seem intent on our young being independent from us before they can even walk. That's not to say it's a second nature for parents or isn't draining (says the one who's currently ill and managed 1.5 hours sleep before the toddler woke me up again). But we can just say to any parent, I see you, I hear it's tough, you are not alone and it won't be forever
 
Roselina said:
Oh gosh I hope your little one is recovering well ! That’s a horrid op ❤️
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Thank you! He seems to be doing ok, was very angry and fighting 4 nurses and myself after surgery. I'm still a bit bruised from him fighting everyone. He is coming down with something so we will go to the doctor tomorrow to get it checked out.

Things have changed a lot since I had my first to my third child. Rice cereal was the go to first food a baby could eat with my first. When I had my second the pediatrician said no rice cereal, only oatmeal cereal. They still are saying no to the rice cereal as it has way too much arsenic in it. What makes me upset is things that are not safe for babies are still sold in the baby stores! Like the bumpers for the cribs, just a big no-no on that one. Or the teething relief gel; that one is really bad as it can make a baby's oxygen levels drop to unsafe levels.
 
Poor little thing - it’s scary for little ones as they don’t understand. I hope he gets the care from the doctor and improves asap - ❤️
 
Small update about work:

Sadly I wasn’t able to take the job I was offered, mainly because I’d get 6k less a year than I’m earning now - I’m struggling enough as it is, it’s just not viable. So sadly that option is out. Another option is I’ve applied for a position within the company that opened up - still at my current job but a different role. Money is slightly less but just about manageable, so I’m going to take it if I’m offered the role. I… feel like I SHOULD get the role, but I don’t want to jinx it or hold my breath! The application process shut last week and not heard anything back yet, however my company is very inefficient let alone with the Queen passing.

I’ve been on time off for the last week and I really don’t want to go back tomorrow, woken up horribly anxious and really not looking forward to it at all. I met up with a coworker I get on really well with last night and she was filling me in, I’m absolutely dreading it - management have been very… hard to deal with this week. Apparently I picked the worst time to go off - so many things have crashed in my absence, but personally I don’t think that’s my problem! Hire more staff if my annual leave causes such an issue. Good news is, I’m getting the handover tomorrow then management is off for the next week, so it should make things easier.

Current plan of attack is if I don’t get this role internally, I’ll go back to looking for remote work. Remote work near me pays a minimum 2k more then what I’m earning right now, without any former qualifications! And I can spend more time at home too, and have weekends off which will be a blessing. I’ll miss my current line of work - I love the job, just not the people - but I can always go back, I just decided that I need a break and a clearer head on my shoulders before I go back to the industry. Actually, what I really want is to do my own business full time - if I get this new role I’ll be a lot better mentally to go for it! I’m just spending my last day off today mentally resting, cuddling my cat and playing a lot of Genshin Impact - might order pizza later, why not.
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
The advice on when to start solid food has changed only in the last 20 years. My first baby (now 22) started wanting lots more breastfeeds before 3 months and we could start on baby rice at 3 months. By the time number 2 was born in 2004, we were told to wait until 6 months, luckily son no2 wasn't so demanding 😀
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When I first started my job there was no legal requirements to use a car seat. To quote Maya Angelou, when we know better, we do better.

Lady Kelly did a great job of explaining the protective factors of why babies wake. Ultimately the most supportive thing for a new mum is to be there for her, not adding pressure to her feeding decisions with stories of how it might have been in "our day". We need to acknowledge how hard it is, offer to help where we can practically and to be a listening ear. It's ok to listen and not have suggestions to fix it, just acknowledge that it sucks!

I had two 2 hourly wakers and it was brutal. I dreamed of 6 months for the first when I thought solids might help. They didn't. My youngest refused solids entirely until 8 months. (I had 9lb+ babies that were over 18lb at 6 months so I heard a lot about how hungry they were and how they needed "proper" food.

I can confirm now that boy 1 is nearly 17 and is still up once or twice a night to pee but at least he is independent about it! Boy 2 at 14 sleeps the true sleep of the teenager! I
 
Bear with me on this, because I know how it'll sound - but I'm fat and I don't eat enough. I'm very bad at being actually hungry. Somewhere along the line the hunger signals get their wires crossed and I don't register hunger well at all. You know how some people can't go shopping when they're hungry? I have to go shopping hungry or all I get is goblin food.

To today, and the talk about fish and chips, and I've realised I need to eat. Not because I'm hungry but because I've got other signs telling me to eat something, but I've no food in the house. It's been ages since I've had a takeaway, so I figured I would...and spent what feels like forever just staring at Just Eat and Uber Eat menus. The one place I'd definitely go for is closed on Mondays and I genuinely couldn't find anything else I wanted. Because I'm not hungry.

I gave up and went for Dominos. Then I couldn't order via the app and had to do it on the PC, and the entire time my brain's like "not hungry not hungry why bother NOT HUNGRY ALREADY". I don't know how people do this on a daily basis, having their brains agree with their stomachs about food. It drives me nuts, but I'm very much unable to do anything about it and that somehow makes it even worse.
 
Hi Lorcan I understand what you’re saying. Our brain and our body dont always line up and I think over the years our brain dampens down certain feelings and responses. You’ve recognised you need to eat and maybe making time to think about what to eat and when might help. Obviously that seems easy ….and of course it’s not.
I get that. How we feel day to day, hour to hour and minute to minute effect it all.
It’s great you could share this with us, most of us experience a similar relationship with food. ( love or hate)
You’re already doing such a great job with not smoking …so don’t be hard on yourself…❤️
 
Lorcan said:
Bear with me on this, because I know how it'll sound - but I'm fat and I don't eat enough. I'm very bad at being actually hungry. Somewhere along the line the hunger signals get their wires crossed and I don't register hunger well at all. You know how some people can't go shopping when they're hungry? I have to go shopping hungry or all I get is goblin food.

To today, and the talk about fish and chips, and I've realised I need to eat. Not because I'm hungry but because I've got other signs telling me to eat something, but I've no food in the house. It's been ages since I've had a takeaway, so I figured I would...and spent what feels like forever just staring at Just Eat and Uber Eat menus. The one place I'd definitely go for is closed on Mondays and I genuinely couldn't find anything else I wanted. Because I'm not hungry.

I gave up and went for Dominos. Then I couldn't order via the app and had to do it on the PC, and the entire time my brain's like "not hungry not hungry why bother NOT HUNGRY ALREADY". I don't know how people do this on a daily basis, having their brains agree with their stomachs about food. It drives me nuts, but I'm very much unable to do anything about it and that somehow makes it even worse.
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Our relationship with food is so complex. I used to have an unhealthy relationship of eating too much and not being able to eat in front of other people because of the comments about how skinny I was when I was young and being accused of being anorexic or bulimic. It's taken decades and a lot of work to overcome.
If you can't face full meals then why not try small and often. So start with trying 3 "meals" but they could be snack size or something. You can increase to 4-6 tiny meals a day rather than trying large amounts. You need to be kind to your body and your mind
 
Thank you both. This is an issue I've had since I was born - full very quickly, after a couple of mouthfuls even. I was always small for years, and under the care of endocrinology outpatients in Belfast for ~12 years. They just couldn't pin down exactly what the issue was. I was on a growth hormone injection for 10 years which stimulated an appetite (Mum said I went from eating nothing to eating everything I could get my hands on lol), and when it was stopped, my appetite went with it.

At this point I'm a grazer and likely always will be. Smaller amounts are less horrendous to try dealing with, and I can pick it up and put it down as I need to. But I've nothing in the house to graze on and then I need to buy more and I just look at menus or what Tesco/Asda have available and it's like my brain just switches off.
 
Grazing sounds like the way to be Lorcan - maybe keep a few bits in your cupboard for times like these. Then having to look at menus etc won’t be necessary. I get menus etc can be overwhelming.
Try not to drink too much fizzy as that will dampen your appetite and give you ups and downs 🥰
 
Do you like fruit juice or squash ? I know you don’t like plain water
 
I would if the water tasted less awful, but the tap water here is vile, nothing covers it unfortunately.
 
Lorcan said:
I would if the water tasted less awful, but the tap water here is vile, nothing covers it unfortunately.
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I agree the water in Manchester is :vom: :vom: :vom: . It's so bad that my OH used to get a bad tum when we visited my Grandma who lived in Blackley. We subsequently found that filtering it through a Brita water filter made it more palatable and easier on my OH's tummy.
 
I tried the Brita filter when the goblins arrived and...nope, still awful.
 
Sorry to derail very quickly, I just wanted to pop on and say thank you again for the support 😊

When I was born, my mum was told to use cot bumpers and have me sleep on my stomach. Advice now is the polar opposite; I half joke that it'll have done another 180 by the time I'm a grandparent. We're all doing our best for our babies with the guidance we have at the time, that's the main thing! (...I hope)

@RedLoredAmazon Thinking of you, that sounds incredibly tough. I hope you're being well supported as you take care of your little one.

@DoragonHinansho Fingers crossed for you! Your degree taught you lots of transferable skills, don't let anyone tell you that you have to stay in that specific field for it to be useful!

@Lorcan I'm sure you've already thrown this at it, but have you tried eating small meals at set times every day? Just a thought, human bodies love a good routine and this is how I got myself eating again after a particularly bad time with anxiety at the end of uni.
 
I'm having a stonking day today. It's a culmination of crap that's going on at the moment and my health is suffering as a result. After two days of pain, the dog waking everyone at 2am and then the toddler being up for 1.5 hours, plus having the toddler to manage on my own when she hasn't quite adjusted to the no naps she's insisting on I'm at my wit's end. I am grumpy mum, I am shouty mum, and I do not like it one bit. It's not her fault I am taking it out on her and I have apologised and she keeps giving me cuddles to make me feel better 🥹 but it shouldn't be like this. Just hope I am feeling better and rested in time for tomorrow's exam
 
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