Engel's Herd

I don't think the boys will be going back together. They're completely ignoring each other. And when they aren't Cyril is chattering like a mad man. Looks like some pigs are going to be losing their plums.

Worth intro-ing them to girls through bars/ mesh to see who they like or no point yet?

I've got a feeling Basil will be going with Eris and Mia. Cyril I'm not sure. Mia is quite a strong personality and so is he so I think they may clash.
 
Engel said:
I don't think the boys will be going back together. They're completely ignoring each other. And when they aren't Cyril is chattering like a mad man. Looks like some pigs are going to be losing their plums.

Worth intro-ing them to girls through bars/ mesh to see who they like or no point yet?

I've got a feeling Basil will be going with Eris and Mia. Cyril I'm not sure. Mia is quite a strong personality and so is he so I think they may clash.
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I am sorry to hear that.

No, through the bars wont give you any real indication. They would need to wait until they are neutered and six weeks post op before seeing if the girls will accept him. It is the sows who need to accept the boar.
 
Ok @Piggies&buns I'll have to wait and see.

After thinking about it, I don't think getting a 7th piggie is wise, reason being that while I can afford to keep them (hay, pellets ect) I have to think about potential vet bills. So as it stands, getting another sow isn't possible at the moment.

So plans. If there's any other ideas please let me know.
Plan A- try and reintroduce boys
Plan B- castrate boys and intro one to the girls. The other to live side by side with Po and Jupi. So Cyril/basil will still have contact with piggies through bars/mesh but have their own space.
 
If Cyril and basil are separate now and both are happy, then reintroduction sounds less likely. You are looking for them to give their answer and if they are happier apart, then that is it.

Plan b is definitely a viable one. Whichever one is not bonded with the girls will still be happy to have interaction with Po and Jupi. Do also bear in mind that the single boy can still be alongside Mia and Eris (doesnt just have to be po/Jupiter) even if the other one is bonded in with them. It’s only bonded boars who need to be kept away from sows, single boars can still live alongside sows, provided the single boy is not able to escape and get in with them. It might be worth getting them both neutered even if you decide to have a boar/sow trio, just in case things change down the line and you have the option to separate Mia and Eria
Just give some thought to your shed though - I know they are indoors now, but you will need to be able to keep the single of Cyril/basil still alongside one of the other groupings when they go back to the shed
 
Piggies&buns said:
If Cyril and basil are separate now and both are happy, then reintroduction sounds less likely. You are looking for them to give their answer and if they are happier apart, then that is it.

Plan b is definitely a viable one. Whichever one is not bonded with the girls will still be happy to have interaction with Po and Jupi. Do also bear in mind that the single boy can still be alongside Mia and Eris (doesnt just have to be po/Jupiter) even if the other one is bonded in with them. It’s only bonded boars who need to be kept away from sows, single boars can still live alongside sows, provided the single boy is not able to escape and get in with them. It might be worth getting them both neutered even if you decide to have a boar/sow trio, just in case things change down the line and you have the option to separate Mia and Eria
Just give some thought to your shed though - I know they are indoors now, but you will need to be able to keep the single of Cyril/basil still alongside one of the other groupings when they go back to the shed
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Yes they both seem happier. I do intend to get them both neutered anyway. I keep forgetting that one can live along the sows. 😅

Yes shed situation is going to be a challenge. Thinking out loud, I could make a 3ftx3ft hutch to go alongside the bottom part of the hutch but the bottom part would need modifying to allow me to get into the bottom corner.

Another option is to have a hutch on the top and bring him down for interaction during the day like I would have done in the beginning with Eris and Jupi if Eris hadn't been pregnant. But I want him to have interaction 24/7 as it's so important to them.

(Off to measure the shed and sketch a bunch of stuff. See if I can come up with a plan)
 
Yes 24/7 interaction is best.
Definitely see what else you can come up with. You’ve got plenty of time.
I can see it would be a huge shame to split up Eris and Mia but in reality Cyril/Basil are both very young so having them with one of the girls each may be a better option long term rather than one with the girls and one alone. Plus it removes the element of always having to ensure a single is side by side
 
Piggies&buns said:
Yes 24/7 interaction is best.
Definitely see what else you can come up with. You’ve got plenty of time.
I can see it would be a huge shame to split up Eris and Mia but in reality Cyril/Basil are both very young so having them with one of the girls each may be a better option long term rather than one with the girls and one alone. Plus it removes the element of always having to ensure a single is side by side
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It would, I'd feel terrible splitting them up now. They've spent almost a year together and are inseparable much like Jupi and Po.

On a more positive note, Jupi and Po are doing very well. Here's some pictures 😍IMG_20211006_152332669.webpIMG_20211006_152414715.webpIMG_20211006_152606300.webpIMG_20211006_152736902.webpIMG_20211006_152808071.webpIMG_20211006_153045296.webpIMG_20211006_153238462.webp
 
Could one of the boys have a 3ft hutch with c&c added on the front which he'll have access to 24/7 and where he'll interact with other pigs through mesh?

If I have a 3ft hutch and a 2x3 the boy will have 9sqft. This will mean I can clean the whole floor of the 6ft hutch. I've added a diagram below showing what I mean as not sure I'm explaining this well.

Blue represents 3ft hutch
Green is the c&c
Pink is the 6ft hutch
Snapchat-254266883.webp

I'm going to do more insulating in the new year to help keep them warm this time next year.
 
a 2x3 c&c is almost 9sq ft on its own so added to a 3ft hutch, then it is a good sized space. It does look as if it will work

It will just be winter time if you are going to try to keep them out there. That c&c will be cold and while insulating will help, it isnt a productive heat source, of course, so something to keep an eye on
 
If they have to come in during the winter then so be it. There's nothing I can do about that. Obviously I'll try and find a way to insulate the c&c like maybe add ply wood on the outside of the grids and use a clear tarp over the top of the c&c, stuff it with hay and 2-3 heat pads.
 
I've been making a few hay bags and thought I'd show them off as well as piggies reactions. Haven't got round to making Po and Jupi one yet But here's what everyone else thinks.

Dysnomia (and Basil) like
them at the moment and will happily eat from them. Mumma on the other hand is showing how unimpressed she is by pulling all the hay out.
IMG_20211009_151525214.webp

Cyril thinks it's better as a sleeping bag.
IMG_20211009_151758007.webp
 
Ok today I am attempting to reintroduce the boys just so I'm 100% sure. They've been going nuts at the divider. Really frustrated that they can't get to each other. Really yanking at it and interacting through the bars.

Started at 10 only just moved into the main cage. All seems well. Had a bit of rumbling but followed by pop-corning every time. Had bum sniffing, humping and snuggling in hay. While they were fine with a hide in reintro place I've only got hay and water in the main cage at the moment as I want to be really sure. If all goes well they'll have a hide by this evening.
 
Fingers crossed it was a blip and they will be ok going forward.
( interactions at the bars aren’t always for positive reasons, so do keep an eye on them)
Fingers crossed!
 
Piggies&buns said:
Fingers crossed it was a blip and they will be ok going forward.
( interactions at the bars aren’t always for positive reasons, so do keep an eye on them)
Fingers crossed!
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Yes hopefully, we'll see. I know interactions at the bars can't be a true indicator of how they'll be. But as theyve not drawn blood, I don't see the harm in trying. Obviously if it goes pear shaped this time, this will be the last time. I have my trusty dustpan and oven gloves at the ready if I need them.

Here's a few photos from just now.IMG_20211010_155338005.webpIMG_20211010_155352346.webpIMG_20211010_161545941.webpIMG_20211010_161659302.webpIMG_20211010_161759623.webp
 
Unfortunately it isn't to be. Neither party is hurt but that's credit to the amazing guide on here and how fast I can move. As soon as I heard the chatter I knew.

Ah well. They're separated now.
 
Warning! This is going to be a tad gross I apologize.


Question for those who own male piggies...how normal is it for them to get hay up their penis? Not the urethra, but along side I guess. I have to pop his bits out to remove it. Yes it's definitely hay...only Basil has had this issue and I've had to gently remove the hay from his region 3 times now and I've only had him 2 month's. I've tried hay bags with him and he's still managed to get some up there. I just have so many questions and looking for reassurance I guess as none of the other boys have this issue.
 
I’m sorry your boars don’t want to be together. 🤨. With regards your question - Yes it happens quite a lot. It’s amazing how long the piece of hay is too! There will be a tiny bit of hay peeping out and I’ll pull it really gently and it’s sometimes an inch long. Ouch!
 
weepweeps said:
. 🤨. With regards your question - Yes it happens quite a lot. It’s amazing how long the piece of hay is too! There will be a tiny bit of hay peeping out and I’ll pull it really gently and it’s sometimes an inch long. Ouch!
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I'm so glad it's a common thing and yes it's surprising and doesn't look comfy at all!
 
Right I'm having second thoughts on neutering the boys after someone else on here lost a piggy after spay/neutering. I know this is a chance we take.

I like statistics. Numbers. I know sow spays are incredibly risky and have a high mortality rate although getting better with time. But does anyone know the stats in regards to boars? I've read a paper regarding scrotal Vs abdominal castration and the infection rates of both but I can't find anything regarding mortality rates that's up to date.

@Wiebke @VickiA and anyone else involved in rescue and/or done a lot of spays/neuters what's the stats on it?

I know how they do it and questions to ask and good vet makes all the difference. I spoke to a vet about castrating Jupi before I knew if Eris was pregnant and she was confident to do Jup but also said she'd happily spay Eris as the health benefits are greater. She claimed to have done a lot. However since then I've had no need to speak to her about it (until now) so I didn't get to ask her all the questions.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Do remember that we do tend to hear of the sad cases more than the positive ones.
I have had seversl rabbits spayed and neutered, all successfully.

if you decide against neutering, will you just keep them both single and alongside the others permanently?

Neutered / De-sexed Boars And Neutering Operations: Myths, Facts and Post-op Care
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For alternative boar companionship options: A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars (see chapter on companionship).

The success rate of boar neutering operationd has risen massively over the last decade; deaths have become much, much more rare these days. A good vet with plenty of guinea pig neutering or smally furries ops experience still makes a difference in the success rates though.

With any operation, there is never a full 100% guarantee although the best piggy operating vets come as close to it as possible in terms of boar neutering ops. This is the leap of good faith that you have to face with any procedure under full GA. It is admittedly more easily to make when the alternative is a certain death and not an elective operation.

Please keep in mind that we have an over-representation of procedures going wrong on here as we are one of the places that is contacted over operation problems, treatment complications or very difficult cases.
The imbalance is even greater when you google online. What you will get is all the horror stories and the miracle cures but hardly anyone will find it worth posting about the vast bulk of successful treatment/ops and normal recoveries. You always have to adjust for that.
 
Our little rescue tends to neuter between 3 and 5 boys a month, and has done for several years. Over that time we have lost one boar to an anaesthetic complication during the procedure, one boar who failed to recover from the anaesthetic and one boar to post operative abscesses (later found to have an underlying health issue). So our experience is that with our trusted vets, the procedure is really quite safe. With appropriate pain relief most boars come home and are back eating their veggies at teatime.
 
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