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Baytril not working?

Hi! Just want to bump up my question again to see if people can answer it :) Just wondering about introducing dried herbs and flowers to some pigs prone bloat and that have been off veggies for a while. It’s so depressing them not being able to have treats and I was wondering if marigold and nettle would be okay? I own a dehydrator and I’m growing both in my garden :)
 
Marigolds are rich in fiber, so may help with digestion and nettles all around are a good source of vitamins and are known to have some anti-inflammatory properties.

I think if you were to feed such I would do it very slow, see how the girls tolerate it and go from there.
If you are still feeding pellets I would not give these on the days you give forage.
 
piggl said:
Marigolds are rich in fiber, so may help with digestion and nettles all around are a good source of vitamins and are known to have some anti-inflammatory properties.

I think if you were to feed such I would do it very slow, see how the girls tolerate it and go from there.
If you are still feeding pellets I would not give these on the days you give forage.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much!
 
piggl said:
Marigolds are rich in fiber, so may help with digestion and nettles all around are a good source of vitamins and are known to have some anti-inflammatory properties.

I think if you were to feed such I would do it very slow, see how the girls tolerate it and go from there.
If you are still feeding pellets I would not give these on the days you give forage.
Click to expand...
So would I give no pellets one day? And give forage then? :))
 
Hi Guys! Just wondering if it’s typical for piggies nebulised on f10 antiseptic to sound quite loud and snotty breathing wise first before they get better? As Bea and Mouse sound very raspy bless them.
 
Oh dear. I’m really struggling. After just over a week on Marbocyl and still no noticable improvements they seem to be all going downhill again. Just yesterday and the day before when they were all a bit perkier and their poops were perfect and round and dark and dense and I finallt thought this is it, we’re finally making progress, I woke up this morning to a hunched over puffed-up Mouse, sleepy Meep and flopped over Bea.

Bea is back to her sloppy, smelly puddles of poops. Mouse’s are back to hamster dropping size and Meep’s are no where to be seen as she’s eating everything she pumps out.

Their weights all dropped quite a lot (50g) last night aswell, despite me syringe feeding 20-25g to all three three times a day.

I just don’t know what to do anymore, my entire day is dedicated to their care, and I know if I stop they’ll just plummet downhill. I wake up at 9, give them Emeprid and Metacam, and Bea her Diuretic, then its 30 mins in an f10 Nebuliser, then at 10 they get Marbocyl. Then its their first round of critical care with a pinch of Bisolvon. After that I wait two hours and give their fibreplex. Then I have 3 hours to myself before the next dose of Emeprid and critical care. Then they get more fibreplex at 5/6. Then I get another 3 hour break, then their Emeprid and Metacam and Bea’s diuretic at 9, then Nebuliser again and final critical care feed. Then one more dose of Fibreplex at 12.

They haven’t been right since before April and it’s depressing. I have images of Mouse and Bea passing and Meep being on her own, not being able to have a cage mate as she’s still suffering from this horrible bug.

Nothing I am doing is shifting it and I feel I must be doing something terribly wrong or someone’s got it out for me lol.

I don’t want to lose my piggies, they’re my everything but I’m just so exhausted, I don’t have a life anymore.
 
I am so truly sorry to hear this, my heart dropped a little when I saw your update.

Could you give an update with every girls current issues, ongoing treatment etc.
I appreciate this has been gone over again and again but it may help someone with a similar issue identify and potentially give advice.

Have you spoken to your vets about the length of treatment and lack of progress? Do they have any other ideas at all? Because I assume you have done every scan and test available.

I really hope you are speaking to someone, whether it is “just a guinea pig” or not these are our family members and ones we hold close to our heart, and what you are going through is tiring and terrifying.

Is there any of them at all which aren’t really that sick, just having funny stomachs etc.?
I am not saying you should but I am just wondering if putting one or whatever of the less sick girls back to a completely normal guinea pig routine would be at all helpful.

I have never dealt with a continually sick piggie, let alone three, and I can not imagine how difficult this is for you.
I am keeping you all in my thoughts, although I do not know you personally I am wishing you all the best and I hope this nightmare comes to an end soon.
 
piggl said:
I am so truly sorry to hear this, my heart dropped a little when I saw your update.

Could you give an update with every girls current issues, ongoing treatment etc.
I appreciate this has been gone over again and again but it may help someone with a similar issue identify and potentially give advice.

Have you spoken to your vets about the length of treatment and lack of progress? Do they have any other ideas at all? Because I assume you have done every scan and test available.

I really hope you are speaking to someone, whether it is “just a guinea pig” or not these are our family members and ones we hold close to our heart, and what you are going through is tiring and terrifying.

Is there any of them at all which aren’t really that sick, just having funny stomachs etc.?
I am not saying you should but I am just wondering if putting one or whatever of the less sick girls back to a completely normal guinea pig routine would be at all helpful.

I have never dealt with a continually sick piggie, let alone three, and I can not imagine how difficult this is for you.
I am keeping you all in my thoughts, although I do not know you personally I am wishing you all the best and I hope this nightmare comes to an end soon.
Click to expand...
Of course :)

So they’ve been on 4 lots of antibiotics now, pretty much all available ones and they usually pick up and then go back downhill day 5.

Mouse has an off stomach and seems to be in pain, he poops are small and hamster like and stringy.

Bea’s are borderline diarrhoea, either a smelly yellow clump or squashy poops.

Meep’s seem okay ish her being the youngest but I’m just so worried for her especially as she’s only two :(
 
piggy.pack said:
Of course :)

So they’ve been on 4 lots of antibiotics now, pretty much all available ones and they usually pick up and then go back downhill day 5.

Mouse has an off stomach and seems to be in pain, he poops are small and hamster like and stringy.

Bea’s are borderline diarrhoea, either a smelly yellow clump or squashy poops.

Meep’s seem okay ish her being the youngest but I’m just so worried for her especially as she’s only two :(
Click to expand...
It’s sounds like mouse might be dehydrated, is she drinking normally? You might want to try her with syringing her water, or as I believe was suggested before making her critical care more wet.
Have her teeth been checked, or has she had any scans at all to identify the reason for her gut issues. (Edit - I assume this is caused by the antibiotic?)

As for the diahorria, do you know if there’s a chance the medication and everything is too much? I’m not sure if medication can cause diahorria but I guess it may be worth asking if you haven’t already.

Are they still struggling with URI symptoms? I assume Marbocyl is the antibiotic?
Also are your girls eating hay? You mentioned the 25-30ml of critical care which is a great amount to keep the gut moving if they are eating hay.

Have you tried Cisapride at all, it is a gut stimulant that works on a separate area of the gut to Emeprid.

This may sound silly, but have you had a discussion at all about maybe the continued lack of vegetables (and then the vitamins/nutrients that coke with such) could be affecting their progress at all.
I don’t know if this affects piggies but sort of how if we don’t fill our bodies with nutritional, vitamin filled things we will be weaker and more susceptible to illness.

Has the vet given you any reason why they might be going up and down. I would assume there would be some sort of medical reason why this is so ongoing.
Would you maybe think about keeping track of their behaviours and feeding etc. and you could maybe find some noticeable change when they become worse again. Even if you do this mentally, then writing it down the “log” day before and the days coming when they decline again.
 
Sorry I've been offline a bit - my little sow had a great big spay (and then a lung infection) but she's doing OK.

What baffles me is that your trio have all 'got' something and it seems to be really virulent. And you're right, if the worst comes to the worst you couldn't really bring another pig into this situation without expecting it to be ill too. This initial improvement followed by the day 5 drop - I'm wondering whether it's related to the fact the ABs are helping but then the gut stress starts to work against you again. I know it's expensive in the UK but have you thought about trying benebac - they seem to have some on amazon at the minute. It's not always available without a 2 week wait...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/PetAg-Bene-Bac-Pet-Gram-Syringe/dp/B0002ASS0W
It's a US probiotic with actual bacteria in. I have sometimes used it in addition to fibreplex to try and boost gut flora faster. It's not magic, but I think I'd be at the stage where I'd give anything a go. You must be feeling desperate, I'm so sorry. How long is it until you report back to the vet?
 
Free Ranger said:
Sorry I've been offline a bit - my little sow had a great big spay (and then a lung infection) but she's doing OK.

What baffles me is that your trio have all 'got' something and it seems to be really virulent. And you're right, if the worst comes to the worst you couldn't really bring another pig into this situation without expecting it to be ill too. This initial improvement followed by the day 5 drop - I'm wondering whether it's related to the fact the ABs are helping but then the gut stress starts to work against you again. I know it's expensive in the UK but have you thought about trying benebac - they seem to have some on amazon at the minute. It's not always available without a 2 week wait...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/PetAg-Bene-Bac-Pet-Gram-Syringe/dp/B0002ASS0W
It's a US probiotic with actual bacteria in. I have sometimes used it in addition to fibreplex to try and boost gut flora faster. It's not magic, but I think I'd be at the stage where I'd give anything a go. You must be feeling desperate, I'm so sorry. How long is it until you report back to the vet?
Click to expand...
That’s a shout! Ideally I would love to get my hands on some poop soup :( But I’ll look in to that! How would I administer it with antibiotics? Would it still be that same 2 hour gap?
 
piggl said:
It’s sounds like mouse might be dehydrated, is she drinking normally? You might want to try her with syringing her water, or as I believe was suggested before making her critical care more wet.
Have her teeth been checked, or has she had any scans at all to identify the reason for her gut issues. (Edit - I assume this is caused by the antibiotic?)

As for the diahorria, do you know if there’s a chance the medication and everything is too much? I’m not sure if medication can cause diahorria but I guess it may be worth asking if you haven’t already.

Are they still struggling with URI symptoms? I assume Marbocyl is the antibiotic?
Also are your girls eating hay? You mentioned the 25-30ml of critical care which is a great amount to keep the gut moving if they are eating hay.

Have you tried Cisapride at all, it is a gut stimulant that works on a separate area of the gut to Emeprid.

This may sound silly, but have you had a discussion at all about maybe the continued lack of vegetables (and then the vitamins/nutrients that coke with such) could be affecting their progress at all.
I don’t know if this affects piggies but sort of how if we don’t fill our bodies with nutritional, vitamin filled things we will be weaker and more susceptible to illness.

Has the vet given you any reason why they might be going up and down. I would assume there would be some sort of medical reason why this is so ongoing.
Would you maybe think about keeping track of their behaviours and feeding etc. and you could maybe find some noticeable change when they become worse again. Even if you do this mentally, then writing it down the “log” day before and the days coming when they decline again.
Click to expand...
Molly mentioned the amount of nasal discharge may be keeping in the infection and hopefully with the 1hr total of f10 nebulising and Bisolvan, we should start to shift the snot. Mouse and Bea have been very snotty and noisy since we started that so fingers crossed that’s the mucus being brought up!
 
piggl said:
It’s sounds like mouse might be dehydrated, is she drinking normally? You might want to try her with syringing her water, or as I believe was suggested before making her critical care more wet.
Have her teeth been checked, or has she had any scans at all to identify the reason for her gut issues. (Edit - I assume this is caused by the antibiotic?)

As for the diahorria, do you know if there’s a chance the medication and everything is too much? I’m not sure if medication can cause diahorria but I guess it may be worth asking if you haven’t already.

Are they still struggling with URI symptoms? I assume Marbocyl is the antibiotic?
Also are your girls eating hay? You mentioned the 25-30ml of critical care which is a great amount to keep the gut moving if they are eating hay.

Have you tried Cisapride at all, it is a gut stimulant that works on a separate area of the gut to Emeprid.

This may sound silly, but have you had a discussion at all about maybe the continued lack of vegetables (and then the vitamins/nutrients that coke with such) could be affecting their progress at all.
I don’t know if this affects piggies but sort of how if we don’t fill our bodies with nutritional, vitamin filled things we will be weaker and more susceptible to illness.

Has the vet given you any reason why they might be going up and down. I would assume there would be some sort of medical reason why this is so ongoing.
Would you maybe think about keeping track of their behaviours and feeding etc. and you could maybe find some noticeable change when they become worse again. Even if you do this mentally, then writing it down the “log” day before and the days coming when they decline again.
Click to expand...
Gosh I hope it’s not the lack of veg, I’d feel so guilty if so. I’d love to start reintroducing it but Molly said it’s just not the right time.
 
Free Ranger said:
Sorry I've been offline a bit - my little sow had a great big spay (and then a lung infection) but she's doing OK.

What baffles me is that your trio have all 'got' something and it seems to be really virulent. And you're right, if the worst comes to the worst you couldn't really bring another pig into this situation without expecting it to be ill too. This initial improvement followed by the day 5 drop - I'm wondering whether it's related to the fact the ABs are helping but then the gut stress starts to work against you again. I know it's expensive in the UK but have you thought about trying benebac - they seem to have some on amazon at the minute. It's not always available without a 2 week wait...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/PetAg-Bene-Bac-Pet-Gram-Syringe/dp/B0002ASS0W
It's a US probiotic with actual bacteria in. I have sometimes used it in addition to fibreplex to try and boost gut flora faster. It's not magic, but I think I'd be at the stage where I'd give anything a go. You must be feeling desperate, I'm so sorry. How long is it until you report back to the vet?
Click to expand...
Hope your lovely girl is doing okay with her lung infection and recovers well from her spay xx
 
piggl said:
It’s sounds like mouse might be dehydrated, is she drinking normally? You might want to try her with syringing her water, or as I believe was suggested before making her critical care more wet.
Have her teeth been checked, or has she had any scans at all to identify the reason for her gut issues. (Edit - I assume this is caused by the antibiotic?)

As for the diahorria, do you know if there’s a chance the medication and everything is too much? I’m not sure if medication can cause diahorria but I guess it may be worth asking if you haven’t already.

Are they still struggling with URI symptoms? I assume Marbocyl is the antibiotic?
Also are your girls eating hay? You mentioned the 25-30ml of critical care which is a great amount to keep the gut moving if they are eating hay.

Have you tried Cisapride at all, it is a gut stimulant that works on a separate area of the gut to Emeprid.

This may sound silly, but have you had a discussion at all about maybe the continued lack of vegetables (and then the vitamins/nutrients that coke with such) could be affecting their progress at all.
I don’t know if this affects piggies but sort of how if we don’t fill our bodies with nutritional, vitamin filled things we will be weaker and more susceptible to illness.

Has the vet given you any reason why they might be going up and down. I would assume there would be some sort of medical reason why this is so ongoing.
Would you maybe think about keeping track of their behaviours and feeding etc. and you could maybe find some noticeable change when they become worse again. Even if you do this mentally, then writing it down the “log” day before and the days coming when they decline again.
Click to expand...
In terms of when they go down, it always seems to be after day 3/5, which is usually when antibiotics start to kick in. So I’m curious about that!
 
Yes - you'd have to leave a decent gap. I don't know whether you do it straight from the syringe but with three pigs I'd be mixing it with a bit of CC and dividing it up to stretch it out a bit. I'm no good with those plunger syringes - after Fibreplex they look like they've been hit in the chops with a custard pie!

The antibiotics will kill bacteria from day 1 - I don't know why there's a delay to 'side effects'. People can get gut issues on AB too.

I'm sure there's a bit of vits in the CC food. You can add in a bit of vitC if it's been going on for a long time. There's a vit C section in the forum info on probiotics
Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links
 
Free Ranger said:
Yes - you'd have to leave a decent gap. I don't know whether you do it straight from the syringe but with three pigs I'd be mixing it with a bit of CC and dividing it up to stretch it out a bit. I'm no good with those plunger syringes - after Fibreplex they look like they've been hit in the chops with a custard pie!

The antibiotics will kill bacteria from day 1 - I don't know why there's a delay to 'side effects'. People can get gut issues on AB too.

I'm sure there's a bit of vits in the CC food. You can add in a bit of vitC if it's been going on for a long time. There's a vit C section in the forum info on probiotics
Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Link
Click to expand...
Thank you! Would you say leave 2 hours? Or longer? Reckon I should phone up my vets and ask?
 
piggy.pack said:
Gosh I hope it’s not the lack of veg, I’d feel so guilty if so. I’d love to start reintroducing it but Molly said it’s just not the right time.
Click to expand...
I was just thinking out loud, you could always ask your vet.
Plus this would never be your fault, you are constantly doing you best for you girls.

Assuming Molly is your vet I would always follow what she says, also she’s correct with everything going on you don’t need to introduce anything new.

With the mouse thing, the top of my last message, do you think you could implement either wet critical care or syringe feeding some water.
I know generally speaking if you put all your girls other issues aside, hamster like poops are generally caused by dehydration or their diet isn’t completely right.
The diet thing can’t be helped, and she is on critical care to help with this, but I am wondering if offering her additional water may help.

I am also wondering if you had any success with the oats?
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
Sorry, I haven’t got time to read through everything, but why have you been told to stop veg? I’m a bit confused by this! 😕
Click to expand...
I believe it is because of the girls ongoing gut issues.

They are all suffering from likely antibiotic based gut disturbance and all have on and off either diahorria, bloating or dehydrated stringy hamster poops.

This is what I have picked up anyway.
 
Flora has been eating grass since the day after her op. I know veg is to be avoided if piggies are getting bloat but I've not had reason to stop it in any pig apart from that. So when Flora came home she only wanted lettuce at first, then lettuce and cucumber, then that and grass. She'd not touch pepper or carrot or baby corn which she was usually fond of if she could get a bit. She'd have to be pushed into taking CC from the syringe but she'd eat most of the grass I brought in on her own as long as wasn't too tough and strappy. I also think frankly that it's probably got bacteria on and some of that might be doing her baytril-raddled guts some good. 5 days on and she's now slurping up her CC but still only picking at hay.

It's really worth checking that with your vet before the weekend - is there a reason grass is being avoided? It's what they've evolved to eat and it generally perks them up no end, even if that's partly psychological!
 
I assume the antibiotics will be working, as indicated by the positive culture, and I’m wondering if their reduced appetite and general downslope is actually a result of their guts. Whether I just have to plough through and focus on getting the infection out of them :( I’m just not sure. I assume the gut problems won’t be affecting the antibiotics effectiveness?
 
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