Baytril not working?

[piggl]

You are one of the most considerate and caring people I have seen on this forum.
The constant strive and pushing against the horrible cards you have been dealt, all while living your own life, the clear love you feel for your girls.

I think a vets assessment will hopefully give you a better idea, you can then work off of that.
You HAVE given these girls the best life they could, although it has been a tough few months, I can’t imagine how loved they feel.

A question I ask myself is as you say, if I stopped medicating/support feeding, how would they get on?
When I put my digby down, he had a terminal diagnosis but was acting himself due to the medication and support feeding, and making the decision was one of the toughest things i’ve had to do.
I still struggle with guilt sometimes, but I know I made the right decision, and it was one made out of love and care for him.

QOL is not the same as giving up, you are making an informed decision with your girls best interests at heart.
Guilt is not unusual in such a stressful and emotional situation, but I really urge you to look at all you have done and every post you have made with the love and the wish for your girls just to get better.

Make lots of memories, and be kind to yourself in these coming days.
I wish you and your girls all the best x

 

[PiggyPack]

You are one of the most considerate and caring people I have seen on this forum.
The constant strive and pushing against the horrible cards you have been dealt, all while living your own life, the clear love you feel for your girls.

I think a vets assessment will hopefully give you a better idea, you can then work off of that.
You HAVE given these girls the best life they could, although it has been a tough few months, I can’t imagine how loved they feel.

A question I ask myself is as you say, if I stopped medicating/support feeding, how would they get on?
When I put my digby down, he had a terminal diagnosis but was acting himself due to the medication and support feeding, and making the decision was one of the toughest things i’ve had to do.
I still struggle with guilt sometimes, but I know I made the right decision, and it was one made out of love and care for him.

QOL is not the same as giving up, you are making an informed decision with your girls best interests at heart.
Guilt is not unusual in such a stressful and emotional situation, but I really urge you to look at all you have done and every post you have made with the love and the wish for your girls just to get better.

Make lots of memories, and be kind to yourself in these coming days.
I wish you and your girls all the best x

You have no idea how validating and kind your words are, they really made me feel so proud of myself and my pigs for making it this far, thank you so much and thank you for speaking about Digby as well, that has made me think I am probably heading towards the right decision.

 

[Wiebke]

I feel guilty as I feel like if I had gotten to infection under control sooner they may be okay. Just so many feelings and overall just feeling so disappointed with myself that I may not have been able to save them.

But seeing @Merab's Slave ’s piggies happily tucking in to their veg and forage reminded me that mine haven’t had veg or any treats, let alone grass, since March.

Hi

As humans we are wired to reflect everything back onto ourselves, usually negatively. I most sincerely doubt that you could have got the infection under control at any stage, having done everything you could. Sometimes it is simply just not to be and no meds can do the trick. Not everything comes with a fairy godmother and a magic wand, as much as we pray for a good outcome. You can never win every battle unless you are God or superman. As a loving owner you can only give your best, and you have certainly done that. That is all that is asked of you, and that in itself is challenge enough.

What you are currently experiencing is actually the onset of your grieving process; strong feelings of guilt and failure are characteristic for it. It doesn't start with the moment of death but with the moment you are coming face to face with the prospect of it. With you, this has been a very abrupt thing, so you get the full dose right now.

These feelings are not an expression of actual failings but of your depth of love. The more you love, the more intensely you feel them. Where the light shines brightly, the shadows are deeper - they are the two sides of the same thing. Without the light and the shadows we would simply live in a dull, cold world of unemotional grey fog. Try to see your pain and torment as an expression of how much you care beyond your abilities and way beyond your control. Our love reaches far further than we can go and than what we can practically achieve; it's one thing that is limitless and that transcends time. A defeat is never easy to swallow. Give yourself time and be kind with yourself during the whole process. If you do it right, the experience of having come through it will make you ultimately stronger.

Please contact the Blue Cross pet bereavement services if you come home from unfavourable assessment; but keep in mind that it may not be one. Regular flares are part of sterile IC and can be dealt with. I have had several piggies who were living with them and with daily meds for years on end. You can tweak the medical regime so it works for your own daily routine; you always have a few hours of leeway. Full-on medicating and any especially any feeding support can be very exhausting and dispiriting over any length of time. It depends on how much quality of life your piggies have around it, how stable they are and how far you want to take them.

PS: The Blue Cross now offer several free of charge platforms so you can choose the one you are most comfortable with so you do not have to go through the process of grieving unsupported. If you have already existing mental health issues, this trained extra support can make the process easier on you and you are less at risk of getting stuck in emotional traps. Just so you know that there is easy accessible, free help out there whenever you need it.
Pet bereavement and pet loss

 

[PiggyPack]

It’s such a weird feeling seeing them ambling about going about their own business. When you think end of life care, you envision this terminally ill pig unable to move, I haven’t had to navigate this situation before, all my previous passings have been very swift, albeit, likely painful due to my inexperience

 

[PiggyPack]

Hi

As humans we are wired to reflect everything back onto ourselves, usually negatively. I most sincerely doubt that you could have got the infection under control at any stage, having done everything you could. Sometimes it is simply just not to be and no meds can do the trick. Not everything comes with a fairy godmother and a magic wand, as much as we pray for a good outcome. You can never win every battle unless you are God or superman. As a loving owner you can only give your best, and you have certainly done that. That is all that is asked of you, and that in itself is challenge enough.

What you are currently experiencing is actually the onset of your grieving process; strong feelings of guilt and failure are characteristic for it. It doesn't start with the moment of death but with the moment you are coming face to face with the prospect of it. With you, this has been a very abrupt thing, so you get the full dose right now.

These feelings are not an expression of actual failings but of your depth of love. The more you love, the more intensely you feel them. Where the light shines brightly, the shadows are deeper - they are the two sides of the same thing. Without the light and the shadows we would simply live in a dull, cold world of unemotional grey fog. Try to see your pain and torment as an expression of how much you care beyond your abilities and way beyond your control. Our love reaches far further than we can go and than what we can practically achieve; it's one thing that is limitless and that transcends time. A defeat is never easy to swallow. Give yourself time and be kind with yourself during the whole process. If you do it right, the experience of having come through it will make you ultimately stronger.

Please contact the Blue Cross pet bereavement services if you come home from unfavourable assessment; but keep in mind that it may not be one. Regular flares are part of sterile IC and can be dealt with. I have had several piggies who were living with them and with daily meds for years on end. You can tweak the medical regime so it works for your own daily routine; you always have a few hours of leeway. Full-on medicating and any especially any feeding support can be very exhausting and dispiriting over any length of time. It depends on how much quality of life your piggies have around it, how stable they are and how far you want to take them.

PS: The Blue Cross now offer several free of charge platforms so you can choose the one you are most comfortable with so you do not have to go through the process of grieving unsupported. If you have already existing mental health issues, this trained extra support can make the process easier on you and you are less at risk of getting stuck in emotional traps. Just so you know that there is easy accessible, free help out there whenever you need it.
Pet bereavement and pet loss

Thank you so much, such wise words, I hope one day I can become as informed and caring an owner as you

The UTI isn’t actually what’s worrying me really, as like you said if it is not bacterial it is likely something I can medicate over time, it’s the URI they’ve had for months now that’s just wiped out their immunity and exhausting them, especially in this heat, it mustn’t be comfortable at all, sitting here right now as they’re nebulising and it’s just no life. They deserve to be grazing on grasses or being treated to veggies and left to snooze and popcorn, not have syringes shoved down their throats 3x a day.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much, such wise words, I hope one day I can become as informed and caring an owner as you

The UTI isn’t actually what’s worrying me really, as like you said if it is not bacterial it is likely something I can medicate over time, it’s the URI they’ve had for months now that’s just wiped out their immunity and exhausting them, especially in this heat, it mustn’t be comfortable at all, sitting here right now as they’re nebulising and it’s just no life. They deserve to be grazing on grasses or being treated to veggies and left to snooze and popcorn, not have syringes shoved down their throats 3x a day.

The URI is the worrying part but it is not because you haven't stepped in soon enough. We see an increasing issue with resistancy due to overuse in the whole farming industry, including commercially mass produced pets - the problem is much worse in the USA but we are coming up against it here in the UK as well. Not your fault at all. Just your cosmic bad luck that your piggies have caught one of those bugs.

Hot weather is always extra hard on respiratory issues because because they usually mean that the heart has to work harder. I always hate hot summer weather because I know that the extra pressure is going to be too much for one or more of my frail oldies despite my best efforts.

By all means have an open discussion with Mrs Varga. Whichever way it goes, you can then take it further with a much clearer mind and ultimately with a more peaceful heart for the long term. But there is no guilt attached since you have most cerainly done your very best and much more than most other piggies would have received. It is always so much harder when you have to fully call the shots; we all dread this.

PS: 'Cosmic bad luck' is my own expression for catching a short straw in the lottery of things that happen at random, are coincidental and cannot be anticipated or prevented or where the timing, circumstances and financial resources are against you - basically everything that is not in your own control.

As caring owners we tend to see everything as either caused by us or as our responsibility, even when it very often isn't. Learning to differentiate between whether I have made a really made mistake/misjudgment that I can learn from contructively for the future or whether what has happened was not in my control in the first place has been and still is an ongoing process but it helps me to minimise the risk of falling into the unproductive soul destroying guilt trap.
This has been a life lesson that has come out of losing so many piggies over the course of many years and having had to make a number of end of life decisions - getting the balance right is something you have to do anew with every piggy and it is inevitable that you sometimes don't get it perfectly right. Like everything, it is a learning curve. But approaching it openly and honestly does help a lot.

You can always only do so much and as long as you do the best you can reasonably do at the time and give your piggies as happy a life under the circumstances, then you are ahead. Learning to not beat yourself up over what you cannot do anything about means that you have then more energy and freedom to concentrate on what you have control over and to be able to take positives from it - even from the saddest losses.

Be honest about when you reach your own limits - physically, emotionally and financially. You yourself are a limited resource and you need to take care of yourself first so you can take care of others for the long run. If you crash, then that helps nobody. It's a lesson that we as a family have learned the hard way during the three long years my dad fought his terminal cancer with lots of ups and downs.

 

[piggl]

It’s such a weird feeling seeing them ambling about going about their own business. When you think end of life care, you envision this terminally ill pig unable to move, I haven’t had to navigate this situation before, all my previous passings have been very swift, albeit, likely painful due to my inexperience

I completely get that.

I feel there’s sometimes pressure to keep going and that the only right time to make that decision is when your pig is on deaths door themselves, but I don’t believe this is the only “right” answer.

“Better a day too soon than a minute too late”
Putting a pig to sleep is not just ending their suffering in their time of need, it’s the years of care you put into them, it’s the terminal diagnosis, it’s when you and your pig reach your limit, it’s when the QOL is not something you want your loved pig to live.

Whatever decision you make, will be the correct one since it comes from a place of love and kindness.
You are so strong and kind.
Take care of yourself x

 

[PiggyPack]

Thank you all so much. Such lovely words, I don’t know what I’d do without this forum

 

[PiggyPack]

Oh dear I’m struggling quite a bit tonight. Spending time with them is really special but at the same time so dishartening.

Just holding each one and appreciating all their special features.

Mouse’s half and half nose and her custard tummy, the little dimple in her left ear and her racing stripes, when she licks your fingers and curls up beside you so snuggly for hours on end. Her soft shiny fur, her sweet donut lips.

Meep’s curls on her bottom, her ginger stripe, the way she looks like a wooly worm caterpillar, her one orange whisker and her beautiful black eyes and how they sparkle in the sunlight, how she licks your nose and goes up to each pig and kisses them so much. Her beautiful chatty squeaks and little white paws.

Bea’s missing half ear and her beautiful tri-coloured fur, her little tuft of hair and her white lion’s mane. The way she lifts her head up to have her eyes licked and her silent rumbles and angry popcorns. How brave she is and how much a great alpha piggy she is looking after her friends.

@Wiebke was right, you really do start to grieve. Gosh I feel so drained and sad. I just never ever thought about the prospect of losing all three, it just doesn’t seem right.

I also made this little photocopy of my herd today, which although gut-wrenching, has created something I’ll treasure forever.

 

[Wiebke]

Oh dear I’m struggling quite a bit tonight. Spending time with them is really special but at the same time so dishartening.

Just holding each one and appreciating all their special features.

Mouse’s half and half nose and her custard tummy, the little dimple in her left ear and her racing stripes, when she licks your fingers and curls up beside you so snuggly for hours on end. Her soft shiny fur, her sweet donut lips.

Meep’s curls on her bottom, her ginger stripe, the way she looks like a wooly worm caterpillar, her one orange whisker and her beautiful black eyes and how they sparkle in the sunlight, how she licks your nose and goes up to each pig and kisses them so much. Her beautiful chatty squeaks and little white paws.

Bea’s missing half ear and her beautiful tri-coloured fur, her little tuft of hair and her white lion’s mane. The way she lifts her head up to have her eyes licked and her silent rumbles and angry popcorns. How brave she is and how much a great alpha piggy she is looking after her friends.

@Wiebke was right, you really do start to grieve. Gosh I feel so drained and sad. I just never ever thought about the prospect of losing all three, it just doesn’t seem right.

I also made this little photocopy of my herd today, which although gut-wrenching, has created something I’ll treasure forever.

HUGS

It is of course much worse since you have several frail piggies.

The good news is that this is the second worst time after the loss itself. It corresponds to the shock of a sudden loss, only that the shock and the pain of the actual loss are not happening all at once - it means that it is getting that bit easier for you later on since the grieving load is basically the same; you just do it in a different order and with different dynamics. What you suffer now you do not have to suffer later on.

But it is always a real kick in the most tender part of your soul. Have a cry if you feel like it. There is nothing wrong with that. You don't have to be strong all the time.

 

[PiggyPack]

HUGS

It is of course much worse since you have several frail piggies.

The good news is that this is the second worst time after the loss itself. It corresponds to the shock of a sudden loss, only that the shock and the pain of the actual loss are not happening all at once - it means that it is getting that bit easier for you later on since the grieving load is basically the same; you just do it in a different order and with different dynamics. What you suffer now you do not have to suffer later on.

But it is always a real kick in the most tender part of your soul. Have a cry if you feel like it. There is nothing wrong with that. You don't have to be strong all the time.

Thank you so much, I have been crying a lot admittedly, especially because my day still very much revolves around their care.

 

[piggl]

Oh dear I’m struggling quite a bit tonight. Spending time with them is really special but at the same time so disheartening.

Just holding each one and appreciating all their special features.

Mouse’s half and half nose and her custard tummy, the little dimple in her left ear and her racing stripes, when she licks your fingers and curls up beside you so snuggly for hours on end. Her soft shiny fur, her sweet donut lips.

Meep’s curls on her bottom, her ginger stripe, the way she looks like a wooly worm caterpillar, her one orange whisker and her beautiful black eyes and how they sparkle in the sunlight, how she licks your nose and goes up to each pig and kisses them so much. Her beautiful chatty squeaks and little white paws.

Bea’s missing half ear and her beautiful tri-coloured fur, her little tuft of hair and her white lion’s mane. The way she lifts her head up to have her eyes licked and her silent rumbles and angry popcorns. How brave she is and how much a great alpha piggy she is looking after her friends.

@Wiebke was right, you really do start to grieve. Gosh I feel so drained and sad. I just never ever thought about the prospect of losing all three, it just doesn’t seem right.

I also made this little photocopy of my herd today, which although gut-wrenching, has created something I’ll treasure forever.

What a lovely picture, this might sound silly but even I got a little emotional thinking of you and your gorgeous girls and how hard you have worked.

I have never actually seen your girls, so if you have more pictures to share, that would be really lovely. Of course only if you want to.
Take in these moments, your girls sound absolutely lovely.
I will attach the forums bereavement guides, they are fantastic and can be nice to read through.
Death, Dying, Terminal Illness; Human Grieving and Bereaved Companions: Information and Support for Owners and Their Children

Allow yourself to feel every emotion, take pride in everything you have all been through and most importantly.. cuddles!
My thoughts are with you x

 

[Piggies&buns]

I just wanted to send you huge hugs and lots of support. You have been absolutely amazing in caring for them.

 

[PiggyPack]

Thank you so much all of you it means more than you could know.

 

[PiggyPack]

Obviously they’re all mongrels but Mouse is the agouti coat, Bea the fluff ball and Meep is the satin teddy

 

[piggieminder]

Sending you hugs. I am so sorry you are going through this. Looking after multiple sick piggies for such a long time is so emotionally and physically draining.

 

[piggl]

They’re all so gorgeous

 

[Free Ranger]

Aah I'm so sorry you're facing this
It must be one of the worst things a vet has to do and yet they do it all the time as part of their job of caring for animals. Dr Molly will be able to advise you on your little trio. This might be the first time you are facing this decision, but she has the weight of her experience to draw upon. If she doesn't think now is the time she will tell you so. We'll be thinking of you all today x

 

[PiggyPack]

Hi guys, just got back from the vets and me and Molly have agreed that it’s time to say goodbye this afternoon. It’s been a long hard fight but it’s not throwing in the towel as such, more than it is a truce with the horrible odds I’ve recieved. Mol says they’ll all be pts together and then sedated in another room away from me.

I wanted to thank you all for your undending support, namely @Free Ranger @piggl @Wiebke @Qualcast&Flymo and especially @Merab's Slave for her undending support through the poop of her beautiful pigs. I for sure won’t be saying goodbye to this forum as the community and support on here is second to none and I will he a piggy owner all my life and just want to learn and grow as an owner, even if I don’t have pigs of my own soon.

Thank you again and please never stop what you’re all doing, it’s incredible.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi guys, just got back from the vets and me and Molly have agreed that it’s time to say goodbye this afternoon. It’s been a long hard fight but it’s not throwing in the towel as such, more than it is a truce with the horrible odds I’ve recieved. Mol says they’ll all be pts together and then sedated in another room away from me.

I wanted to thank you all for your undending support, namely @Free Ranger @piggl @Wiebke @Qualcast&Flymo and especially @Merab's Slave for her undending support through the poop of her beautiful pigs. I for sure won’t be saying goodbye to this forum as the community and support on here is second to none and I will he a piggy owner all my life and just want to learn and grow as an owner, even if I don’t have pigs of my own soon.

Thank you again and please never stop what you’re all doing, it’s incredible.

BIG HUGS

My thoughts are with you and your much loved girls.

Try to take consolation in that you have truly tried your very best and have given them the best life they could have under the circumstances. They will never experience the loss of their companions and will make the journey together on the wings of your love when you are setting them free from what cannot be vanquished with the best medication and care.

You are always welcome to stay on as a valued member of our community. There are more ways you can support guinea pigs in need (like helping raising funds for a rescue) even when you yourself need to take a break. You can help save lives this way as a bit of a memorial or legacy for yours. It's helped me paying forward in terms of new happy outcomes and lives what I cannot change in the past and cannot pay back to those it is due - but I can keep their spirit to live on in what I do for others. Being kind to others in pain on here can also help yourself.

Firstly though, please take the time to grieve and be kind with yourself. What you are going through is not something you can walk away from easily and it is not a gap in your life and thoughts that will heal and fill quickly. We are here if you need a shoulder.
Here is some rather practical advice and information on what to expect and what you can do for yourself: Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

 

[piggl]

I am sorry to hear this.

I hope you can find peace in the fact your girls will not be in pain anymore, they were very lucky to have found someone as fantastic as you.
You have done so well, and your journey is a sad but great one. Be kind to yourself as you grieve, but never forget all the hard work and care you put into your girls. You are correct, you are certainly not throwing in the towel, you are making a tough but loving decision with nothing but your girls best interests at heart.

Hopefully you will all get some well earned rest. My thoughts are with you x

 

[PiggyPack]

Thank you both very much :,)

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

You’ve tried so very hard! My thoughts are with you and your beautiful piggies x

 

[piggieminder]

Thinking of you today. I am so sorry to hear your sad news. Sometimes no matter how hard we and our vets try we just cannot make them better. You did everything you could for your girls and now you have made the kindest but hardest decision. Sending you hugs.

 

[Piggies&buns]

You have been absolutely amazing throughout all of this and they knew love.
Sending you huge hugs.

 

[PiggyPack]

Thank you all so much, on our way now, will let you know how it went Took this pic of Bea and Mouse I did the first day I got them and now the last day I’ll have them, it only seemed fitting.

They also had an enormous feast of all their favourite veggies and fruits and Bea ate her purple flower haha but it’s fine, for once I wasnt prying her jaws open in a frenzy.

 

[PiggyPack]

They went to sleep so soundly, it was beautiful, as they gently drifted off me and my boyfriend cradled them. Meep being the massive teddy she was was licking me nose still 5 minutes after the other two were asleep.

I’ll be getting some lovely guinea pig shaped urns which I will paint to look like each one of them and proudly have them on my mantlepiece.

I’m actually very calm right now, I usually am with death, the way they went was so beautiful and they were so loved and loving right until the very very very end.

Thank you all for your support.

 

[piggl]

They went to sleep so soundly, it was beautiful, as they gently drifted off me and my boyfriend cradled them. Meep being the massive teddy she was was licking me nose still 5 minutes after the other two were asleep.

I’ll be getting some lovely guinea pig shaped urns which I will paint to look like each one of them and proudly have them on my mantlepiece.

I’m actually very calm right now, I usually am with death, the way they went was so beautiful and they were so loved and loving right until the very very very end.

Thank you all for your support.

Sleep tight lovely girls, that "before and after" picture is gorgeous.
If you wish to you could create a tribute for your girls in our rainbow bridge section, if you would find that nice.

As tough as it was I sort of took a deep breath after putting my Digby down, I knew he was free from pain now.
Take care x

 

[Merab]

Hi guys, just got back from the vets and me and Molly have agreed that it’s time to say goodbye this afternoon. It’s been a long hard fight but it’s not throwing in the towel as such, more than it is a truce with the horrible odds I’ve recieved. Mol says they’ll all be pts together and then sedated in another room away from me.

I wanted to thank you all for your undending support, namely @Free Ranger @piggl @Wiebke @Qualcast&Flymo and especially @Merab's Slave for her undending support through the poop of her beautiful pigs. I for sure won’t be saying goodbye to this forum as the community and support on here is second to none and I will he a piggy owner all my life and just want to learn and grow as an owner, even if I don’t have pigs of my own soon.

Thank you again and please never stop what you’re all doing, it’s incredible.

So sorry that you had to make that tough decision.
You gave the girls the best possible care and filled their lives with love.
Be gentle with yourself as you grieve.
Remember - I’m not far away if you want to talk

 

[PiggyPack]

Sleep tight lovely girls, that "before and after" picture is gorgeous.
If you wish to you could create a tribute for your girls in our rainbow bridge section, if you would find that nice.

As tough as it was I sort of took a deep breath after putting my Digby down, I knew he was free from pain now.
Take care x

I’d love to thank you!