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6 year Old Pig with health issues

Well in as much as some of her symptoms are still mysterious your vet is certainly being thorough.

We use something called a 'snuggle safe heat pad' that you put in the microwave. It warms up but is not too warm - then I slip it under a fleece or tunnel. They are made of hard plastic so not really comfy to lie on but my pigs will go into a tunnel and sort of lean on the warm bit while laying on the soft floor. Maybe something like that can help a chilly tum. Or pre-warming a pee pad on a radiator to see if she prefers the warm surface. Louise seemed soothed by a warm thing to lie on when she was having her bloat issues.

I can't remember if I said but we are trying to protect Louise against pain from gritty pee by giving her a half of George's arthritis glucosamine lozenges. I know it was bothering her because my other girl snuggled her for a couple of nights. She had metacam for 5 days and touch wood has been OK since. There are other forms of glucosamine because I know your girl doesn't seem keen. My Flora insists on getting a piece of lozenge if the others are having it but she doesn't like them either and after a couple of bites just leaves it. They don't help us sometimes!
 
Hi @Free Ranger ! Yeah I recently bought one of those pads. I still have to try it out and get the right balance with my microwave. I find it somewhat odd that the "certain spot" she is tending to sit in is not necessarily the warmest. For example she has a fleece tunnel she used to love to go in but now never goes near it. It's odd!
I did actually start giving her some little bits of the joint support lozenges! It took some time for her to acquire a taste for it but now I can usually get her to eat 1/4 to a 1/2 so will probably keep that up.
 
Despite everything else still persisting, I am happy with the state of her underbelly. I think with the frequent pee pad changes and occasional soaks it is starting to look cleaner! Pics from april and today.
 

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Thanks!

Unfortunately she gave me a major scare last night. When I went to bed around midnight after feeding her she was seeming pretty lively and her weight had been trending well the last 2 days. But while I was lying in bed around 1 AM, about to fall asleep, for some reason I started from my bed and went to check on her. She was lying down but on closer inspection a little weirdly. She was even more leaned over to her side than usual as if she couldn't keep both of her back feet under her. I roused her with some food and saw she was able to walk, but after going to another spot and eating it, she flopped over again.

I took her out and really thought maybe this was it for her. She looked very tired and was leaned on one side or another. I was able to keep offering her various foods though, which she took and gave me some hope. I felt around her belly (both sides since it did not seem limited to the one side that was distended) and just generally sat with her. At some point she had some poops come out (there were already plenty of poops in the cage so it's not like she hadn't pooped) and started to liven up a little. I put her back and she ate hay on her own and seemed to have a normal night (what her normal has been recently at least). This morning she was back to wheeking for food and seemed normal.

I have no idea what could have happened. My only guess is some kind of acute bloat flare up? I do think I heard her pass some gas throughout the period I was comforting her. No idea but very scary.
 
Devout_Haruhiist said:
Thanks!

Unfortunately she gave me a major scare last night. When I went to bed around midnight after feeding her she was seeming pretty lively and her weight had been trending well the last 2 days. But while I was lying in bed around 1 AM, about to fall asleep, for some reason I started from my bed and went to check on her. She was lying down but on closer inspection a little weirdly. She was even more leaned over to her side than usual as if she couldn't keep both of her back feet under her. I roused her with some food and saw she was able to walk, but after going to another spot and eating it, she flopped over again.

I took her out and really thought maybe this was it for her. She looked very tired and was leaned on one side or another. I was able to keep offering her various foods though, which she took and gave me some hope. I felt around her belly (both sides since it did not seem limited to the one side that was distended) and just generally sat with her. At some point she had some poops come out (there were already plenty of poops in the cage so it's not like she hadn't pooped) and started to liven up a little. I put her back and she ate hay on her own and seemed to have a normal night (what her normal has been recently at least). This morning she was back to wheeking for food and seemed normal.

I have no idea what could have happened. My only guess is some kind of acute bloat flare up? I do think I heard her pass some gas throughout the period I was comforting her. No idea but very scary.
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HUGS

The flopping over could be neurological (like a mini-stroke affecting the balance) if it is temporary. Gassing does usually not impede the walking/balance.

Unfortunately, you tend to get a rat-tail of secondary complications and issues in older and ill guinea pigs as they gradually get frailer when the original problem continues to take its toll on an ageing body. Because of their fast metabolism, you experience this in a kind of speeded up version compared to humans or larger pets. :(
 
Thanks for the hugs @Wiebke
It was quite scary. I was happy to see her happy again this morning. Neurological definitely makes sense. I hope if it does happen again it's few and far between.
 
Devout_Haruhiist said:
Thanks for the hugs @Wiebke
It was quite scary. I was happy to see her happy again this morning. Neurological definitely makes sense. I hope if it does happen again it's few and far between.
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If it is a mini-stroke, it may work up to a large one at some point as there is no meds we can give guinea pigs; unlike humans. :(

Please concentrate on just appreciating every day you have your precious girl as if it was the last. Live in the moment, focus on the good and making her as happy as you can - the latter two things ARE in your control.
Whatever happens will happen because it is out of your control.

I know that it is hard to do. I've already lost another two of my own oldies this year but still have another very frail 8 years old left plus another six frailer piggies turning 6 years old this year (Nye is the only one left doing so in summer; the others are most likely already 6 years now), so there is bound to be another stampede to the Rainbow Bridge sooner or later again as deaths are never nicely spaced out and this is my biggest adoption wodge coming towards the end of their own normal life span. I do my best to cherish that a number of them has very much reached a normal life span or old age against the odds, seeing their horrible backgrounds and deficits before adoption. :(
 
Thanks, @Wiebke
Yeah I will do my best. Always happy to hear her wheeking and making the most of her time. It definitely causes me a lot of anxiety and lost sleep but that is something I need to learn to live with I think.
Sorry also to hear about your recent lost pigs. That is amazing that you have brought so many to old age from those backgrounds.
 
Devout_Haruhiist said:
Thanks, @Wiebke
Yeah I will do my best. Always happy to hear her wheeking and making the most of her time. It definitely causes me a lot of anxiety and lost sleep but that is something I need to learn to live with I think.
Sorry also to hear about your recent lost pigs. That is amazing that you have brought so many to old age from those backgrounds.
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It doesn't make the loss any less painful as each piggy and each bond is unique but I don't feel guilty or bad at the onset of the grieving process - nor will you, doing your utmost.

But because you are investing so much into your girl, emotionally as well as in terms of care, it is bound to affect you a lot more. By making the most of what time you have left now and being open-minded about the possibility of losing her sooner rather than later, you can however mitigate the extent that quite considerably; you won't have quite so much on your grieving plate if you can do some of grieving processing 'homework' now and you have less of a shock on top of your loss to deal with all at once. It can really make quite a difference, as I know from my own rather ample experience of pet and human loss. With a terminally ill piggy you are not grieving any less, but the process is more spread out if you are open to it and heed the warning signs.
 
Yeah you make a good point. Multiple times throughout this long period of her illnesses I have had grieving days where I was sobbing or otherwise processing some grief even though it maybe wasn't as bad yet.
 
Thanks Free Ranger I will check that out.
Sadly she keeps losing weight. Has been around 810g in the mornings the last 2 days. Still very interested in food for the most part-- eating veggies and excited about them, eating pellets, still eating hay. I will say she is a little less enthusiastic about the syringe food which I had still been giving 3x a day. I know this was discussed before but I may need to step this up again. I was wondering what thoughts were on here about being more free with the pellets as well. In the past I limited them to less than a tablespoon due to concerns about her diet, sludge, etc. (she gets Oxbow Garden Select btw). But I am wondering if feeding them more freely might help her weight stop dropping.

Luckily no more episodes like what happened last Weds but she still does have occasional periods of discomfort or lethargy. I have also heard the return of some (very occasional at this point) pain while going to the bathroom. Still very limited number of spots she is going to in her cage, pretty much just walking around in the food area and sitting/sometimes lying next to it. That said she doesn't seem to have any walking issues when in her playpen, but I do think her lopsidedness with her belly distension probably makes it hard.

She has a vet appointment Weds to check her tooth again as well as it was supposed to be for a new urine culture, but honestly I think she might have to go back on antibiotics either way rather than waiting a few days for the culture to come back.
 
She continues to lose weight is down 60g in the last week with no sign of stopping. And that's despite eating fairly well as I mentioned. I will have to experiment with the pellets a little. I think there is no doubt she will go back on antibiotics since I also found some pink in her urine today and am hearing pain/seeing straining while peeing again. I am also afraid her distended belly is getting a tiny bit bigger/worse.

Trying to compile my thoughts for the vet visit early Tuesday morning so I don't feel like I missed anything. I think the topics of discussion, in no particular order, will be as follows:

1. Her tooth. Probably by Tues it needs to be clipped/evened out. It does not seem to be bothering her eating except for very occasional strange chewing-- I don't think this is the central cause of her weight loss.
2. UTI/ultrasound/antibiotics question. Might involve a culture but I'd hate to wait for the results to get her started. Last time it took a week and two cultures to get results before she could start on antibiotics and then those took time to work. That said I also understand that without a culture there might be some guesswork-- early on in her last infection she had 3 weeks of treatment with 1 antibiotic that didn't work for her.
3. Weight loss -- see if there are any new ideas
4. Stomach bulge/lopsidedness-- xray? last few times didn't really see anything from an xray; I also noticed a slightly bulge and sensitivity on the other side
5. General mobility, heart, lungs, etc.; her behavior has continued to be strange as far as where she likes to set up in the cage and she is using less and less of it-- probably down to using just a 2x1 section in her 2x5 cage. That said she can still seemingly walk fine when in her playpen and motivated. Wondering if my frequent changing out of her 2x2 pee pads is throwing her off a little. I have been changing it 2-3x a day to keep her dry but I wonder if it's never acquiring her scent or making her (mentally) uncomfortable somehow)
 
Devout_Haruhiist said:
She continues to lose weight is down 60g in the last week with no sign of stopping. And that's despite eating fairly well as I mentioned. I will have to experiment with the pellets a little. I think there is no doubt she will go back on antibiotics since I also found some pink in her urine today and am hearing pain/seeing straining while peeing again. I am also afraid her distended belly is getting a tiny bit bigger/worse.

Trying to compile my thoughts for the vet visit early Tuesday morning so I don't feel like I missed anything. I think the topics of discussion, in no particular order, will be as follows:

1. Her tooth. Probably by Tues it needs to be clipped/evened out. It does not seem to be bothering her eating except for very occasional strange chewing-- I don't think this is the central cause of her weight loss.
2. UTI/ultrasound/antibiotics question. Might involve a culture but I'd hate to wait for the results to get her started. Last time it took a week and two cultures to get results before she could start on antibiotics and then those took time to work. That said I also understand that without a culture there might be some guesswork-- early on in her last infection she had 3 weeks of treatment with 1 antibiotic that didn't work for her.
3. Weight loss -- see if there are any new ideas
4. Stomach bulge/lopsidedness-- xray? last few times didn't really see anything from an xray; I also noticed a slightly bulge and sensitivity on the other side
5. General mobility, heart, lungs, etc.; her behavior has continued to be strange as far as where she likes to set up in the cage and she is using less and less of it-- probably down to using just a 2x1 section in her 2x5 cage. That said she can still seemingly walk fine when in her playpen and motivated. Wondering if my frequent changing out of her 2x2 pee pads is throwing her off a little. I have been changing it 2-3x a day to keep her dry but I wonder if it's never acquiring her scent or making her (mentally) uncomfortable somehow)
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Hi

The decreased mobility and change in behaviour is much more likely caused by increasing discomfort/pain than anything you are doing. Please do not overthink your care. There is only so much you can do and it is not all just down to you. Because you care so intensely, it is an easy trap to fall into.

All the best for the trip. Unfortunately, veterinary medicine when it comes to complex guinea pig issues has still very much its limits.
 
...on the plus side she's bald enough underneath to probably not need shaving before an ultrasound(!)
She's a mature girl - and even if she is on the 'home stretch' of her life you are caring for her so diligently to sort her curable issues and nurse her for the ones that are part of her life now. I guess it's just sorting the difference between them. Good luck at the vets x
 
Went to the vet today. Margaret continued to not do great last night, she still has an appetite but it is definitely lower.

1. She got her incisors clipped/evened out, so that was good
2. Got ultrasounds and x-ray. Ultrasound showed some sludge in there (as always) and some thickening of the bladder wall. He also saw her pee in pain. X-ray did not really show anything new. Still has the distended stomach but no bloat or anything. No stones either.
3. She is starting on the same regime of dual antibiotics again (bactrim and orbax). Probably will be a long term thing.

She is definitely tired both from the trip and her condition. Also noticing a lot of soft poops today (before the antibiotic) so hoping her digestive system holds up. She did not have a bad reaction to the antibiotics before so hoping that continues. I also hope her appetite improves again. I have had to be more persuasive with the syringe food again. Though she is still eating pellets, veggies, and eating some hay on her own in small spurts.
 
Oh bless her, she's battling on. I hope you can manage to find a source of glucosamine that she will accept as this helps with battered bladders as well as arthritic joints. She's such a lovely girl x
 
Thanks @Free Ranger . I have stepped up her syringe feeding quantity today since I noticed her not really eating much hay. She seems a little more perked up this evening compared to the morning/afternoon. Definitely still an unstable stomach-- yesterday and last night very small clustered poops followed by much softer and smellier poops today. Not sure if this is from the antibiotics (they did not seem to cause much of a reaction last time but maybe she has to re-acclimate). She is getting some probiotics a few times a day to offset so hopefully this is short term. Not that I expected improvement in a day, but she is still in pain/straining peeing and some pink is in there. But at this time I am most worried about her appetite and unstable poops.
 
Weight has been slightly going up the last 2 days (in the 810s-820s now) alongside some additional syringe feeding. She definitely has some periods where she eats hay, especially in the evening. Her behavior flip-flops pretty wildly. Sometimes she is kind of sitting in what looks to be discomfort or at the very least weird lopsidedness and lethargy. Other times she is wheeking or coming up to me and climbing the cage bars, sniffing and excited. I do notice with her lopsidedness/imbalance that if she is lying down she occasionally stumbles a bit getting up on her left leg (which is the lopsided side)

Despite the slightly increased hay intake, poos remain pretty soft 75% of the time. I did see some more normal ones yesterday but today they were back to kind of messy and soft (which is also necessitating more cleaning since she is stepping/lying in it). Here's an example pic from a pile I found under her once she moved after sitting for a bit. She is of course still on her antibiotics (which might be indefinite honestly) as well as probiotics ~3 times a day (benebac gel or powder). Luckily she is drinking on her own though I usually give her at least one small syringe or two of water a few times a day just to be safe.
 

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And on top of that (waiting for a call back from the vet to get his opinion on her stools, which continue to be very soft and messy), it looks like her tooth is getting close to breaking off again. This is the tooth that broke awhile back and grew back kind of chunky. It got trimmed last week because it was too long but now I notice it has a section (near the top of the picture) where it is very thin (might be a bit hard to see in the photo). Maybe this is a good thing for this more discolored/chunky part to potentially break off?

I am just worried that it might cut or choke her or something if/when it does. Not sure if that is an issue.
 

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I've not heard of pigs choking on teeth before. Mostly people only realise there's a bit missing when they see the gap! I think she'll deal with that herself.
She is a cutie... she must trust you very much to smile so nicely for the camera!
 
Margaret giving me some scares today. In the last 1-2 hours I heard her squeaking in pain more intensely and more often than before. Even in her cage which I rarely heard. I took her out for some syringe feeding and she peed a few times within like 30-40 minutes each with pain/straining, getting up on her haunches, and then after peeing trying to reach down with her mouth to her private parts (with varying levels of success). I gave her a little extra metacam. She is still eating and everything but is having these more frequent bouts of pain.

I am hoping maybe it's just she is trying to pass another one of those weird mucus things (see earlier in the thread) that she passed when she beat the infection the first time. Last time I didn't remember this much pain but since she doesn't have a stone I am not sure what else it could be. I will say the pee has little to no blood visible in it.

P.S. Her tooth did break the other day seemingly with no issues, so I hope it grows back nicer this time.
 
You might be right here as when mine have had a straightforward (if unpleasant) UTI they have frozen when peeing and made more of a 'chirp chirp chirp' sound as they ease out the stinging pee. The second time she passes a poop but it's possible that she's inflamed or there's something bunging up her urethra which is causing pain when the poops pass. Is she actually passing pee because it's really important that she's not totally bunged up. If so, can you perhaps (gently) feel any little lumps where the urethra is? If she's on her back it would be just 'above' the opening where she pees. You might even be able to see something....?
 
It seems to have passed after she passed another one of those grit crystals (similar to earlier in the thread). Now she is back to just lesser pain when peeing. Though pee was still coming out, I do suspect maybe that grit was in her urethra somewhere and hence maybe her instinctually reaching down there.

Later yesterday night she was acting much more normally (for her current normal anyway) and even her poops stopped being so soft (instead were back to slightly small ovals), but before I took her out for her first feeding I found a large clump of poo (kind of half soft, half not, but in one huge clump) and while she was out and soon after I did not find any poops for awhile. She also dropped another ~20g of weight on average to the 790s (was previously holding around 810s), but not really for lack of eating. Definitely concerning. I also notice her passing a decent amount of gas and just generally having kind of a noisy stomach if I am really listening for it. Been doing some massages just in case -- sometimes that distended bulge she has can feel quite firm, other times not. Mostly concerned about the continued weight loss though at this stage.
 
And... on top of all that I noticed on one of her hands the start of some pododermatitis. Will have to figure out how to treat/forestall this before it gets any worse. I have already been soaking her in water every other day or so due to the poop issues. Likely it's on this side due to her weight imbalance potentially.
 

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We've treated this with soaking in Epsom salts and after drying applied a very light dab of Sudocreme which is a nappy cream you buy over here. But we've never had to do this for long periods of time - some members have reported that regular use of this cream can thin the skin and make the problem worse. I'm also wondering if you're just going to be stuck between a rock and a hard place and that the regular soaking to keep her bits clean has softened her feet a little :hmm:

One of my older girls carried a persistent bumble towards the end which didn't heal but had spates of being better and then worse. It was connected to her having arthritis which wasn't being treated at that time as she seemed to move around OK and I was just assuming all older piggies were a bit stiff. Thinking of you and Margaret x
 
Thanks, @Free Ranger

Do you mind if I ask what your solution is for the Epsom salts (e.g. how much salt vs water)? Is it something I should worry about covering or bandaging at some point?
 
I didn't really measure it - I used kettle water so water that had previously been boiled and cooled. I added about a teaspoon of the salts. It was just warm when I soaked the front feet (I couldn't get her to put just one in). Give her something to eat to keep her busy while she's in there and DON'T let her drink any of the water - we found out the hard way that even a few slurps is a powerful laxative and gives them horrid diarrhoea until it passes through - and you've got enough problems! I just sat Daisy in a warm towel until she was dry and them dabbed a very little cream on - then she had to go back onto fabric rather than 'bedding' where the bits would stick to the cream. Sometimes we just had a little cuddle until it soaked in.

I don't know what other people do but I've never wrapped a foot like this as it's not been bad enough and you just know that the first thing they'll do is sit and eat the dressing! If hers gets worse it would be worth speaking to the vet - especially if it's a back foot and will be in contact with her squishy poop.
 
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