6 year Old Pig with health issues

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Yeah I will have to try that. The one area that looks a little worse than the others (though it can't be seen clearly in the picture) is actually more on her belly. She has a small area that is a little more scalded on there and a bit more sensitive. I will try it out today. Also might be tough to apply on her belly without another person to hold her haha...

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Just as an example of her differences I observe in how she is acting or sitting that worries me. These two pictures were just like 50 minutes apart. She seems to alternate between looking happy and gleeful and kind of weird and uncomfortable (at least to my eyes). Obviously this is not a medical thing and is just based on my observations, but still.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Oh! And finally got my x-ray files to add to the record here (x-rays from Monday).

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Small update from today. Continue to observe mixed patterns. Like I mentioned 2 posts ago, sometimes she looks happy and normal and other times she seems uncomfortable or spaced out. Been replacing pee pads often and giving her daily rinses to hopefully help her belly and back feet stay cleaner. She is still doing a lot of grooming on her belly/feet area though. I also have started acclimating her to the joint support supplements and she has taken in about 1/2 of one today. Hoping she keeps warming up to the taste of them if it might help her. She is mobile during the day and is quite active at feeding times and during playpen time I can get her to walk around. That said she does have periods of sitting around for at least an hour in the same spot and is only frequenting a smaller portion of her cage. For example she has a tunnel she always liked on the other end of her cage and she never goes in it anymore. Just kind of stays in the 2x2 area (of her 5x2 cage) where her food, hay and water is.

I did notice a slight weight drop today for the first time since she was starting to recover. Whereas before she had made it back into the 880s and was sometimes trending towards 900, today she was hovering in the 860s-870s all day. Small change but a little odd given she still seems to be eating/drinking as normal and is getting 3 syringe feedings a day still (which she is eager for). I noticed some soft poops today in the midday timeframe, but I have noticed those on and off throughout this whole time on antibiotics and have learned to not panic about them. That said I am still watching for it.

You all can probably tell from my frequent posts that I suffer from pretty bad anxiety about her health, especially since I live alone with her (and her 2 friends in the connected cage). I have been paranoid about possible heart problems but not sure I see any real symptoms of that, at least based on what I read on guinealynx. Though I am still concerned about the lopsidedness/thing I feel on the side of her. But the vet felt around it extensively and put it in a "wait and see" bucket after looking at the above xrays and ultrasound. My simple guess continues to be possible pain from her belly/feet from urine scald might be leading to the lopsidedness, possibly combined with arthritis or something. I notice she never lies on her right side, only her left (which is where the "build up") is.

 

[Free Ranger]

I can understand the anxiety you feel for her... and it's always more overwhelming when you're so involved nursing them. It must feel like you're marking time at the minute waiting for the meds to make a difference and with her getting no worse but not much better. She still has a good quality of life and you're doing great. Does she interact with the other pigs much?

My older pigs spend more time lounging around than walking around and I think that's pretty normal. Flora (3) gets a bit cheesed off as she's much more active and would quite like to play. But you know her, and if you sense her mood is sometimes low you are probably right. Hopefully she has realised that any periods of discomfort will pass and she's just waiting things out.

It must be hard to get comfy when your fur's fallen out. I'm assuming you don't use what we call 'biological' washing liquid or powder to do your fleeces (low temperature action with enzymes in). In people these can cause itching and skin rashes if we are sensitive... personally not a big problem but I started to spike my usual non-bio with a splash of bio for the sock wash (teenagers - phew!) and my poor daughter's feet itched and went bright red... it was very obvious that it stopped at the sock line. Her skin looked like little red socks. She does have more sensitive skin but I think what made it worse was that she has moist little feet and that allowed any active washing liquid remaining on the fabric to affect her more. Now your patient has a bald tummy her pee will dampen the whole area. If you do use bio it would be a good idea to switch - in fact if it's just small pee pads being switched out regularly I might even be tempted to just dunk wash in hot water and see how that went?

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Hi Free Ranger thanks for the reply.
Yeah it's tough because the medicine is basically just to treat the tail end of the UTI which, thankfully, has cleared up. I think my fear is that there is "something else" going on that is being left untreated (even though I don't have any direct evidence for that-- again she is older and has been through a lot so to your point she is going to have some degree of lethargy and discomfort). It's just every little twitch or weird body posture has me worried. I actually just started a whole different thread just for tips for owner anxiety as it's starting to affect me more.

She does not really interact with the other pigs. They live in a connected C&C cage so she has never lived with them. Back in late 2021 they used to interact through the bars more. The little pigs like to steal hay from her side. She used to rumble at them occasionally,etc. but she has stopped doing that. I do think if they start wheeking it gets her attention but that is about it. I think her interaction started to go down in the beginning of 2022 when she went blind and then got sick.

I use "ALL" brand (not sure if this is only a US brand) "Free and Clear" detergent for everything. I will admit I am not familiar with the bio/non-bio distinction on detergent. I think her fur loss is just from a long time of urine scald from that infection. I am hoping that the pee pad changing and more frequent soaks for her bottom and back feet will help.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Most worrying to me is the continued bulge on her side. I am not sure it has gotten any bigger, it's hard to tell, but it's definitely there. As mentioned before I guess there was no cyst or anything-- not sure what should signal me rushing her back to the vet. Her next scheduled appointment is May 10th but that seems far off, but I guess I have to just watch it ? Not sure. More pics for reference on her shape. The more "feelable" bulge is on the black side.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Meant to link this also. A small example of how she is lying spaced out sometimes. I am not sure if her breathing here would be considered "labored" since I have not experienced that with a pig. I should note 5 minutes after taking this she was wheeking loudly at the fridge door.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qAN7mZtqHEpx4ejQs52yBXffguabWHf4/view?usp=sharing

 

[Free Ranger]

She doesn't look exactly laboured in the video but yes, she does look like she's feeling under par. It's difficult to know whether that is anything to do with her bulgy side or not though. are these bouts triggered by anything or do they just occur throughout the day? Is she on metacam for anything and does that help? Does she have her funny bouts more if it wears off?

It's a tricky one - have you been able to show any of these videos to the vet? They never show their symptoms when we actually get there for the exam!

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Yeah . I have watched her carefully and not sure what triggers it. One guess is that there is a period after she eats where she is lying around and may get like that, but other times she stops in the middle of eating and gets like that. She is on metacam, a dose split across morning and night, and has been honestly for like 2 months now. I don't think the "bouts" are related to it wearing off though.
I have not shown these to the vet but will definitely do so. I think where I am stuck now is when to go back to the vet. She has that appointment May 10th and seems to be holding for now (though she did have another small drop in weight today despite eating plenty). I would be able to get into the vet earlier for an "emergency" but not sure when it has reached the point given how her behavior has gone back and forth.

 

[Free Ranger]

I would be thinking I'd not really got a symptom that is acute enough to qualify as 'emergency'. After all, what else can they do more than what is already going on. They would be struggling to think of which test to do next.

Yeah . I have watched her carefully and not sure what triggers it. One guess is that there is a period after she eats where she is lying around and may get like that, but other times she stops in the middle of eating and gets like that. She is on metacam, a dose split across morning and night, and has been honestly for like 2 months now. I don't think the "bouts" are related to it wearing off though.

@Wiebke can piggies get IBS symptoms?

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Good point. Another very rare and out there possibility that I was discussing with someone on guinealynx was hair in her intestines. I know this is pretty rare, but as shown on some earlier pictures she did lose a lot of fur and idk how much of it was self-barbered/eaten. Just another possible thought, however uncommon.

 

[Wiebke]

I would be thinking I'd not really got a symptom that is acute enough to qualify as 'emergency'. After all, what else can they do more than what is already going on. They would be struggling to think of which test to do next.


@Wiebke can piggies get IBS symptoms?

Yes, they can. My Pili Pala had them in the last year of her life in the wake of her bad GI stasis and my Barri (who has just died this weekend) had them for the last two years.

In both cases, they suffered from a noticeably thickened lower bowel. Treatment was with dog metacam, emeprid and cisapride (sadly no zantac available anymore for Barri); in accordance to treatment of thickened lower bowel in rabbits.
Barri had the more severe form so I dosed him on a maintenance dosage once it had come down under control and then upped to the max during the bad flare-ups every few months until they subsided again.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Very sorry to hear about your pig @Wiebke .
That is interesting about those symptoms. I will add that to the list in my head of possible goings-on. Today Margaret had mostly the same behavior as I described earlier but weight has still been slightly lower. Not cause for complete alarm yet but definitely concerning. What's odd is she is eating and pooping normally and still getting 3 small servings of syringe food (maybe 8mL per serving) daily. Just not sure if her hay intake has gone down. Today I noticed a long period in the middle of the day, maybe like 12-5 where she did nibble some hay but mostly sat around. That was after her normal morning feeding around 9 and syringe feeding at 11. If her weight continues to drop that probably will be a sign to go back to the vet but to @Free Ranger 's point I am not sure how they are going to diagnose whatever is going on, given nothing is showing up in imaging.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Small update on Margaret today. She is coming off of her antibiotics. Plan is for her to be off them for a bit (she had been on them a long time to kick this infection) and do a new culture at my next vet appointment on May 10th.

Her weight has been holding but still didn't recover from that sort of inexplicable drop at the beginning of the week. Whereas last week her weight would start the day in the high 860s/870 and end near 900 or over, now she is around 950s in the morning and 980 before bed. Seems she is holding with the bit of syringe feeding I am doing (and she is still eating plenty on her own and very excited for food).

I noticed her doing more self-grooming today, especially on her left side. Not sure what that is about. Have been giving her daily soaks this week and the frequent pee pad replacement has kept her much drier. That said her underside of course still looks pretty bad, it's mostly on her left side. Her left leg has little to not fur on it as you can see in the picture. I will note regarding the pictures of her stomach here-- it is not as red in real life as it appears in the picture. It's much lighter more like a pinkish skin color with maybe one or two more reddish spots. Lighting here makes it look very red.

I am not sure if all her grooming is self-barbering here or what. I did ask my vet about arthritis and he looked at her x-rays again and did not see anything prominent. Still very unsure about that bulge though I have to say, I still am thinking cyst even if one was not detected last time.

Always nervous for me going into Thursday because my vet is only there M-W usually. So I always feel a big drought Th-Su. That said she seems to be holding, with just those periods of blank stares or looking a bit under the weather punctuated throughout the day.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

The more I think about it, the more I am thinking that enlarged lower bowel issue you mentioned could be it @Wiebke
It could be my imagination, but I think most of her bouts of looking a bit perturbed or uncomfortable might come when she is particularly full. For example after her morning normal feeding and then syringe a few hours later, the early afternoon seems to be a consistent period of apparent discomfort. I wonder if it is just while all this stuff pushes through her system? Then I find a big pile of poops whereever she was hanging out. Sometimes this involves her sitting somewhat uncomfortably or just looking kind of "alert" as she stands there.

Her weight has continued to be pretty shaky since dropping on Monday. If anything is is declining verrrry slowly. What's odd is she is eating a lot and also still getting 3 syringe feedings a day. She is usually eager and excited for food (compared to when her UTI was really bad last month and she was barely eating). Poops look ok most of the time with the occasional large soft masses.

If you have a chance Wiebke I would love to know any other symptoms of that bowel disorder or how it was diagnosed. She has another vet appointment May 10th and I will want to ask about that and maybe get her on some kind of motility thing. She has been on metacam already for the last 2-3 months.


Also, separate question but I am not sure if it would be helpful for a mod to maybe change the name of this thread? Only because other than my initial suspicion in the first post it doesn't have anything to do with Pyometra anymore, so I would hate to mislead someone looking for pyometra info.

 

[Wiebke]

It's NOT an enlarged gut but a gut where the walls are noticeably thickened. And it has nothing to do with the actual food intake or is any reaction to it. A vet should be able to tell the difference between a normal gut and an affected one by simple palpation (feeling) as the slings of the gut are quite distinctly thicker and 'doughier' feeling; that is how it was diagnosed in my case.

It causes cramping, which can range from mild to very severe and extremely painful. It can come with short term bloating in more severe cases during the cramps but unlike normal bloating, it goes from zero to hundred in a matter of minutes and back down again much faster than with any gassing.
It's not a very common issue although I suspect it is one that often goes mis- or undiagnosed.
Your piggy's skin looks rather sore and it also looks like there has been some nibbling on the leg hairs (potential arthritis?) Try a very thin layer of flamazine cream (silver sulfadiazine is the active ingredient) on the sore skin.
You may also want consider upping the metacam dosage with your vet's consent.

Please be aware that frail and/or old piggies stuffing themselves but unable to hold their weight is a sign that the nutrient absorption process is no longer working optimally and that sadly the body is gradually failing. I've seen this in a few of my oldies in the last stages of their life.

Caring for Older Piggies and Facing the End - A practical and supportive information collection

I am very sorry; it is so difficult when you do not have a clear issue to deal with but your best support care can do only so much.

PS: I'll remove the pyometra from the title for you.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Thanks @Wiebke !
Yeah it sounds like it could be something similar with her, but not sure. I do think the cramps coming and going quickly could match with what I am seeing. I will keep monitoring her weight and hope that maybe it starts to rally.

I actually just got some of that cream in the mail so I will try it on her skin. I am hoping maybe some of her discomfort is just from some of this surface level skin stuff that can hopefully be remedied but as you say, it's hard to tell or know when there's not a clear issue. She still has so much zest when it's' feeding time (wheeking, climbing the bars, etc.) so I am hoping she still has vitality in her. But it is tough to see her when she is in an uncomfortable state.

As another issue I am going to try and get an updated picture of her tooth. One of her issues many posts ago is her tooth broke. It started growing back but looked a bit discolored and "chunky," which the vet also looked at. He said the discoloration is normally a sign of infection but didn't see anything going on on her gums. Now the tooth is about equal in length to the other top tooth (and might be a little longer?) and still chunky/discolored. It does not seem to impair her eating but just another thing to watch.

Also thank you for changing the thread title.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

(Also curious if this means I should add in maybe another syringe feeding session sometime during the day as long as her weight remains unstable?)

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks @Wiebke !
Yeah it sounds like it could be something similar with her, but not sure. I do think the cramps coming and going quickly could match with what I am seeing. I will keep monitoring her weight and hope that maybe it starts to rally.

I actually just got some of that cream in the mail so I will try it on her skin. I am hoping maybe some of her discomfort is just from some of this surface level skin stuff that can hopefully be remedied but as you say, it's hard to tell or know when there's not a clear issue. She still has so much zest when it's' feeding time (wheeking, climbing the bars, etc.) so I am hoping she still has vitality in her. But it is tough to see her when she is in an uncomfortable state.

As another issue I am going to try and get an updated picture of her tooth. One of her issues many posts ago is her tooth broke. It started growing back but looked a bit discolored and "chunky," which the vet also looked at. He said the discoloration is normally a sign of infection but didn't see anything going on on her gums. Now the tooth is about equal in length to the other top tooth (and might be a little longer?) and still chunky/discolored. It does not seem to impair her eating but just another thing to watch.

Also thank you for changing the thread title.

Hi
If you can, please offer her a bowl of extra feed and see how she is getting on with that. Much easier and quicker than syringe feeding if she takes her feed like that - and you can also offer a larger quantity! Quite a few of my own oldies love their extra feed and make a ruckus to get theirs. You'll learn just how much they will take in one session.

Please be aware that an incisor is about 4 cm long (the longest guinea pig teeth); the roots are way back in the mouth just in front of the molars. It can be an issue with the root and the tooth needing to grow out.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Thanks, @Wiebke . She does usually go crazy for any extra pellets that I give her. I think in the past I was cautious due to all of her urinary issues (both the one she just got over and a history of them). But maybe that is the least of my worries and I should just give her more to get her weight up.

EDIT: Or maybe now that I am re-reading this you meant a bowl of extra syringe feed/Critical care?

Good point about the roots. I trust my vet looked at them but yeah I cannot really see them. I think the tooth is probably only a minor issue for now but I check it every day.

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks, @Wiebke . She does usually go crazy for any extra pellets that I give her. I think in the past I was cautious due to all of her urinary issues (both the one she just got over and a history of them). But maybe that is the least of my worries and I should just give her more to get her weight up.

EDIT: Or maybe now that I am re-reading this you meant a bowl of extra syringe feed/Critical care?

Good point about the roots. I trust my vet looked at them but yeah I cannot really see them. I think the tooth is probably only a minor issue for now but I check it every day.

You can feed mushed up pellets, syringe formula or any mix thereof.
Plain dry porridge oats are also an alternative to pellets, especially with a piggy with a history with urinary tract problems.

 

[Scooter Pie]

Just wanted to say hi and let you know I'm keeping up with your thread Hope you get some answers at the next appointment.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Thanks, @Scooter Pie ! Yeah my anxiety level varies wildly these days just based on how she is looking from hour to hour. Sometimes she looks really happy and energetic and other times not so much.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

One more new thing I noticed tonight. Some thinning of the fur on her left flank (kind of middle of the body, in front of the "bulge"). Looks like one or two scabs there (sorry if the pictures are no good, it's kind of dark there with her black fur. I am thinking this might be from her over grooming this area over the last week or so, either from pain or something else. (?) No equivalent on her other side. Similar to how her left foot I guess has also lost most of its fur but the right has not.

 

[Wiebke]

One more new thing I noticed tonight. Some thinning of the fur on her left flank (kind of middle of the body, in front of the "bulge"). Looks like one or two scabs there (sorry if the pictures are no good, it's kind of dark there with her black fur. I am thinking this might be from her over grooming this area over the last week or so, either from pain or something else. (?) No equivalent on her other side. Similar to how her left foot I guess has also lost most of its fur but the right has not.

That doesn't look like overgrooming/self-barbering to me? Please see a vet.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Vet will be able to squeeze me in tomorrow thankfully. Her weight has still been a bit shaky but at least it's not dropping fast. Making a list here (mostly for myself) of things I want to make sure I get checked/ask questions about.

1. Generally check of all vitals (heart/lungs)
2. Check of that thing I found on her skin on her flank
3. Ask about her weight loss
4. Check her distended looking bulge
5. Check her left leg and underbelly (lost fur, I have seen rare stumbles on her left leg)
6. Check urine (she just finished her loooong course of antibiotics last week but I have seen more sludge in her urine lately)
7. Check and probably trim her front tooth. The broken one is now growing back too long (and still looks a bit chunky/discolored)

 

[Wiebke]

All the best!

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Thanks! Yeah I am hoping it will be as fruitful as it can be. Probably the oddest thing about her behavior is despite the fact that she is still pretty mobile and excited for food, etc. (despite some periods of what looks like discomfort), she keeps going back to sit in this one particular spot in the cage. It's not a spot she has ever frequented before or anything special. It's not in a hidey even. It's just kind of in between her food bowl and the entrance to a hiding area (but she is out in the open when she is there). I've noticed her "range" in the cage, where she chooses to go, has decreased a lot. Not sure what is appealing to her about this one random spot.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Went to the vet today

1. Tooth-- vet saw that the one tooth is very slightly getting longer, but wanted to wait a bit to clip it. I have an appt next week. He also noticed some food/plaque near the top of it by the root that he got off.

2. Weight-- he looked at her poop and does suspect that she is not fully processing all of her food/absorbing the nutrients. She is completely done with antibiotics as of Sunday so he told me to continue the probiotics and see if being off ABs helps with this. But it could be old age also. He also said I could be freer with giving her whatever she will eat.

3. UTI/sludge-- did a new ultrasound and looked at her urine on a microscope. Seems her infection seems mostly better but will be doing a culture next week when she has been off the ABs longer. Bladder wall looks a lot better but there is still a good supply of sludge in there.

4. Fur-- still has fur loss on her belly, which might be combining with some other factors to make her slightly cold. Will continue keeping her dry down there and soaking her to see if with the urine scald healing if she grows it back.

5. Weird behavior/retreating to one spot-- no real conclusion here. Not sure why she is doing that.

6. Heart/Lungs- Heart and lungs sounded good and healthy

7. Stomach bulge - still a bit unsure on this. Doesn't seem to be a thickened lower bowel. Just a distended cecum for some reason. She still seems to have plenty of poops coming through.

Next recheck is May 10th where her tooth will likely be clipped and we'll do a urine culture. Biggest concern is probably her weight instability but she still has quite an appetite.