6 year Old Pig with health issues

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Thanks, Free Ranger. Yeah she is still on her antibiotics (no improvement to her urinary problems as yet). With extra feeding sessions (I am similar to you and maybe hitting just 6mL a session plus some water) I am able to keep her poop output up. I think they look moist because she is peeing on them simultaneously haha. Luckily usually after a syringe session she does pick at hay, etc. once she is put back and will still eat her veggies. Her weight seems to be just barely holding day to day with the syringing I am doing, but hoping for an improvement from the antibiotics soon that will hopefully restore her normal appetite.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Today was an eventful day. Been getting better with the syringe feedings and was doing a lot the last few days. But today her appetite picked up a lot and she was going for her pellets more as well as hay (she still got syringe food also). Her weight went up steadily throughout the day and she is back in the 790s the last few weighings today. Also poops are looking mostly good.

Though most eventful was something that happened ~30 minutes ago that I am not sure if good or bad. I was at my computer and heard a little bit louder yelp from her than the usual ones when she pees. I stopped what I was doing and went over and found, amongst her poops from the last few hours, something that at first looked like a white poop. I am pretty sure though that it came out of her bladder/in her pee. It was about a centimeter long (see pictures below). I will do my best to describe it further. It was oval shaped and almost looked sack-like at first. Around some of the edges were slightly harder bits that looked like the pieces of grit I have occasionally found in her pee. The main part of it was kind of fleshy. I tried cutting it with a plastic knife and it felt rubbery/hard to cut in half cleanly. I saw some red color in it slightly.

I immediately took her out to check on her. Since her passing that thing I have seen her pee again (still seemed painful for her) as well as poop. I gave her some lettuce and she ate it. I am hoping the passing of this thing is a good omen. It was definitely not a stone (was too squishy for that) but I have no idea what it is.

 

[Scooter Pie]

Wow. Are you able to email the images to the vet or drop it off for them to look at? Id have to think it's very good that whatever it is came out!

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Yeah I just heard back from my vet. He said it was a combination of crystals and mucus from her bladder infection and that it's not a bad thing that she passed it. She continues to act better so far today and regained a bit of weight so I am hoping for the best. Still going to be assist feeding her some though since her weight is still low.

 

[Free Ranger]

There's a saying "better out than in" and I suspect that's very true in this case. I'm wondering whether some of the lining of the bladder has come away encrusted with grit..? I don't know whether this can happen but if so she might be tender for a while. At least she has been able to pass this thing on her own. If it has been causing her discomfort or partially blocking her you might see her picking up a bit now and her antibiotics will ward off any potential infection.

We had a guy once post some really scary long stringy fleshy looking things that his pig had pooped out and although I can't remember if he got a definitive answer it did seem to help piggy who had been pooping blood. Some sort of polyp growth with a bit of gut lining on was the speculation.

Ooh - just seen your post. Keep on going little girl - we're all rooting for you!

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Yeah I hope she continues to get better. I think my only fear now, having seen that large thing, is if she has another one and it gets stuck or something.

 

[VickiA]

Ouch your poor girl - that looks like bladder sludge and crystals to me. I’m sure she will feel better for having passed that lot.

 

[Wiebke]

Ok, big update for today.

Her weight has continued to decline but with the syringe feeding, which I am getting better at, and the Oat hay it has slowed slightly. Was 813g this morning. Her behavior seems a little better for it too, but still straining, etc.

The results from her culture came back and are apparently fairly serious. The vet said she has corynebacterium renale in there, which apparently is a very serious bacterium even for humans. There isn't a very clear course of treatment for guinea pigs and the testing did not directly reveal a drug that would work. Apparently that bacterium has evolved to be quite resistant. The current recommended course of treatment is two antibiotics. One is going back on the Albon (with is the trimethone sulfate type) but a slightly larger dose once a day. The other is a drug called "Orbax" which I have not heard of but is apparently related to Baytril.

He said without treatment it will almost certainly be fatal (and often is for humans). But I am nervous about putting two antibiotics in her for long periods.

Anyone else have experience with this bacteria or antibiotics?

HUGS

Very sorry that the news is not great.

For more information on the bacteria I am linking @PigglePuggle for you; she should be around again by the weekend. I have not come across it in guinea pigs before and can't help you on that front.

Antibiotics can be given in combination if needed in serious cases where it is the only chance for a recovery instead of terminal care as the only other alternative. I hope that this puts your concerns about the medication a bit more into perspective. I've seen Orbax prescribed for guinea pigs a few times before; your vet is obviously hoping to avoid another bad reaction to it by not using baytril.

I agree with @VickiA that this rather looks like sludge or sludgy crystals to me. She must be happy to have those out!

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Thanks! Fingers crossed she is still regaining some weight today and continuing to eat more on her own. I have not found any additional "masses" being passed overnight or today so far. But I still have heard her continue to have some pain peeing. But even if it takes awhile I am hoping she is on the road to recovery. This is about 1 week into her antibiotics. So far she has not had a serious reaction to the ABs and I am giving probiotics (except for those few weird poop episodes I mentioned but they have leveled out so far)

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks! Fingers crossed she is still regaining some weight today and continuing to eat more on her own. I have not found any additional "masses" being passed overnight or today so far. But I still have heard her continue to have some pain peeing. But even if it takes awhile I am hoping she is on the road to recovery. This is about 1 week into her antibiotics. So far she has not had a serious reaction to the ABs and I am giving probiotics (except for those few weird poop episodes I mentioned but they have leveled out so far)

All the best! There may be more stuck in the urethra or in the bladder.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Yeah, my biggest fear atm is if some gets stuck in her urethra somehow and I don't notice it. But I guess so far so good.

 

[Scooter Pie]

Is she taking glucosamine yet? I know it's been brought up before. I feel it's kind of a miracle suppliment. I sneek some powder from an opened cystease capsule into a sliced cucumber Sorry if I'm being pushy, of course you need to follow your vet's advice. It just seems to soothe the irritation from the sludge.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

I have not given her any Cytease though I did buy some just in case. I did mention it to my vet and he had heard of it being used but didn't really have a feeling either way. I sort of bought it just in case things kept going downhill and I was willing to throw anything in there. I may still do so but just a bit worried about how much "stuff" is going into her (2x antibiotics, probiotics, metacam at the moment). Might be an unfounded fear though and I may reevaluate if I don't see her pain level start to decrease.

 

[Free Ranger]

I had a look at the glucosamine amount in the oxbow joint support lozenges George is enjoying (90) and in their urinary support version (45) and I give my chunky girl 1/2 an arthritis lozenge every day now. She had no serious issues but was passing very gritty pee and I noticed the other girl cuddling up to her a couple of nights which is not like them. She had also lost a small amount of weight - which stayed lost. So when I started George on them for his arthritis I also started her. It also made things easier because she regards them as a treat and didn't want to be missed out! After a week or so she seemed more herself, after about 10 days I weighed her and she had put that bit of weight back on. There has been no more need for night time cuddles either. But I think these lozenges are not the strongest form of glucosamine available...

Cystease is regularly used by forumites to heal/protect the bladders of their cystitis pigs whatever the cause. People say very good things about it! I've not seen any thread where there have been any ill effects from using it...

 

[Scooter Pie]

I get the "stuff" issue. She is on a lot right now, poor thing.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Yeah it is something I am still debating. I have tried to give her those oxbow urinary tablets and she doesn't seem to like them. She does eat the vitamin C ones but will just nibble the urinary one and put it down.

I think I will definitely watch her closely and think about the cytease. How much do you all typically give from the capsule?

 

[Scooter Pie]

I give my IC piggie the oxbow joint support "cookies". They actually have about 90g glucosamine. When she has a flare, I give up to one capsule (divided in half given twice a day) for 1-3 days and then taper off to about 1/4 capsule contents once a day (this is on top of the oxbow joint support).

When she's not having a flare, I split the joint support in half and give one half twice a day.

If you read the IC guides it explains finding your piggie's sweet spot for daily maintenence and managing flares.

I know your piggie's dealing with a serious infection and not sterile IC. But all the irritation from that and the sludge could benefit from the glucosamine *purely just my opinion based on experience and my vet OK'ing it as a "probably wont hurt, may help" dietary suppliment no pressure!

But if you wanted to try it, here's how I sneek it in a cucumber slice. Sugar does NOT like it in a syringe and it's pretty much a nightmare to mix the powder with water.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Wow, that's a clever method! Thanks!

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

As a side note I really need to find a way to get her back side and "privates" clean. Throughout all of this it was hard to keep it clean due to her infection. I frequently tried using a wet washcloth to clean it followed by a dry one to dry it but never seemed to keep up with it. I am open to any other suggestions to help keep her clean there as she hopefully continues to recover.

She continued to gain weight through to today and now has gained back ~100g in the last week. Still below her old weight but hoping to see it keep rising as she is eating more or less normally on her own now. I have cut back on her syringe feedings from 5-6 times a day to ~3 a day. Not sure if I should cut it back further to further encourage her to eat on her own or keep doing it until she is back to her old weight of ~1000g or so.

 

[Scooter Pie]

I had a piggie who needed her rear end cleaned and I used a shallow bowl of lukewarm water, with a low foot stool covered in a towel for her to rest her front feet on, and distracted with a carrot! It was the only way to get a thorough cleaning. She didn't mind it at all!


Good news about the weight gain.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

That is a cute setup, Scooter!

Well, I thought I was out of the woods but found something weird this morning. She is still acting fine, was excited for food and is eating as I type this. Her weight is just stable today (864), hasn't gone up again.

But on her pee pad this morning where I know she spends time at night I found a bunch of bloody looking splotches. These are very different from the blood I used to see in her urine at the beginning of this where it was urine at the center of a patch of sludge. A bit worried about this and whether it's evidence of some other problem (pyometra?) or just a one time thing. (See top of photo)

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Luckily did not see any more splotches like that for the rest of the day, but still watching closely.

Unfortunately I discovered another issue late tonight when I was giving her some antibiotics-- I am not sure when but it looks like she messed up one of her teeth . This must be fairly recent as I am "in" her mouth multiple times a day giving medicines. Looks like part of her top left (her left) tooth broke and the matching bottom one is getting uneven. Not sure what needs to be done about this. This has not yet seemed to impact her behavior as far as eating and she continues to slowly gain her weight back.

Way back when she was younger (maybe 4 years old) she actually split that top left tooth so that one half was growing too long. With multiple clippings it eventually fused back together into a regular tooth again. Not sure how it will grow out this time. Hope the pics are decent was hard to take them.

 

[Scooter Pie]

You guys can't catch a break! Hopefully her teeth will even out as they grow back. Having them trimmed is always a possibility. You don't want it to throw things off with how her molars wear. Been through this with one of my original two. You'd start to see her showing signs of trying to get food unstuck, funny faces during eating, etc. Just make sure the vet looks in her mouth at any other unrelated checkup

 

[Free Ranger]

The incisors could well wear themselves evenly again. I know that pigs with one incisor opposing 2 can learn to chew so that one incisor is enough to keep both even. But it is certainly worth keeping an eye on. If she starts to chew in an irregular or 'open mouth' way it can indicate that the difficulties with the front teeth are causing problems with eating and when you are trying to gain weight you don't need that complication!
Here is rainbow piggy Zara who had a problem with her bottom incisor. She sticks her jaw out to chew so the hurting tooth doesn't catch on the top tooth.

My vet favours a 'burr' with a small circular saw-type device rather than clipping, as there is less chance of teeth splitting. They do it conscious and it's very quick although the 'animal handler' needs to keep a firm hold! They initially just took a couple of mm from Zara's problem tooth which allowed her to chew hay again.

You are in the wars! We're all rooting for you x

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

I was luckily able to get her into the vet this morning. He fixed the bottom tooth so it looks better and not as sharp (looks exactly the same as her other bottom one now). Basically will have to wait and see how the top one grows back now-- hope it will be ok.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Thought I would give a small update on Margaret. Her weight kind of stopped going up a few days ago, sitting in the 880s now. I am still giving her antibiotics (this is only week 2) and some syringe feeding (but not forcing it). She is definitely eating more or less normally on her own, despite her tooth. Still watching to see how her tooth grows back, too short to tell at the moment (thought it does look a bit odd).

She still has pain peeing and occasional grit (but not as much). Still is on metacam but I lowered the dose a little. She seems generally happier but definitely on the lazy side. Super active for feeding time but a lot of the other times she kind of lies in one spot for longer than I remember. She complains when I pick her up a bit more than before too. When she was at the vet for her tooth the other day I also had him just check for any lumps, etc. and he said he didn't find anything. Her poops are generally good but once in awhile get a bit too soft.

I am hoping she gains some more weight and at least gets into the 900s. Want her to have some more meat on her bones in case she gets sick again.

The only other possibly concerning thing I have noticed in the last 24 hours is she seems quite thirsty. She was drinking a lot overnight last night. While this is good in some sense that she is drinking on her own and maybe continuing to flush out her bladder, not sure if I should be concerned that she is overly thirsty as a symptom of something else.

 

[Scooter Pie]

Thanks for the update How old is
she again? It's good to keep track of the increased thirst...maybe it's from the antibiotics too? Ive seen piggies drink a lot due to mild tummy upset/getting used to new food when first adopted.

Anytime you want to share a pic of Margaret, Id love to see her. Rooting for you guys and hope things settle down.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

Thanks! She turned 6 years old in Feb. Her pic is in my profile picture but I have attached some others (not all recent) for reference

Continuing the updates... Moving into a level of moderate concern again the last few days. I've noticed a few things.

1. She is still having 1-2 "bouts" of soft/clumped stool a day. I noticed yesterday for example in the morning all the poops from overnight were her normal (albeit small) well formed ones but then in the afternoon I found a bunch of clumped soft ones. Then they were normal for awhile until late at night and found some more soft ones. Not sure what is causing this. I cut down (but didn't eliminated, since I am still trying to keep her appetite stimulated) her veggies and not sure if that is making a difference. Not sure if maybe I should give more probiotic or something.

2. Not a red alert yet but I've noticed her weight starting to creep down again. When she was regaining weight in the last week or so, she spiked up to the 880s (from 767 at her sickest) and hit 890. She was consistently hovering between 880-890 for awhile (this was with the reduced 3x a day syringe feedings and mostly behaving normally/eating on her own). But she dipped into the 870s yesterday and this morning was a flat 870 (I do my "official" weigh-ins every morning. Again, could be a random fluctuation but I am watching carefully since this is how it started last time.

3. Still struggling to keep her private area clean. I've been using a wet washcloth followed by a dry washcloth just to give it a once-over each day but I notice it still is pretty dirty. Guessing she is sitting in her pee and/or it is still dribbling out due to her infection.

I will say on a positive note most of her behavior is still good. Very excited for food now, wheeking, etc. The excessive drinking I mentioned seems to just come and go.

 

[Devout_Haruhiist]

To provide more detail on the poop thing, noticing the same pattern today. Poops this morning from overnight and in the morning were normal, I went out for a few hours and then found this kind of soft mass of poops (alongside some normal looking ones) in one of her tunnels.
This was with only a small portion of veggies this morning with some probiotic sprinkled on.

 

[Free Ranger]

She sure is a beauty. In your shoes I would also be giving her some veggies (as long as her guts are not bloating) as she'll be on these antibiotics for a while and she'd be feeling very depressed without any treat. She can't know it's only for 2 weeks/4 weeks etc - she just knows things have changed! I would keep an eye on the squishy poops but perhaps just accept this is how it has to be for now.

The caecotrophs they produce under normal circumstances are soft, squishy (slightly stinky) slop that they just discretely eat when we aren't looking. In 10 years of piggies I never saw any till my George started to get impaction and is cleared out in the evening... the normal poops are bound together in a big lump with the squishy poops(!) and he will occasionally eat the lot (although he does look quite embarrassed doing it). I wonder whether your soft poops are just the naturally produced caecotrophs but she's not eating them because of the antibiotics - either she's not fancying them because of her appetite being affected or the caecotrophs are changed for now which makes them less nutritious? This might explain the pattern of bouts or normal poops then bouts of squishy because I'm pretty sure I read that caecotrophs tend to be produced more at certain times of the day (was it late pm/evening?) whether this varies from pig to pig and is related to their personal body clock I don't know. It can't be all the time - they're just pooping machines! So - and this is just a suggestion - maybe it's just what would be happening normally but the difference is she's not eating them, she's just leaving them around to frighten you!

The fact that she's excited and wheeking for food is brilliant and a good sign. Is she still in pain when she pees tho?