Engel's Herd

[Piggies&buns]

I made hay bags but they just sleep and pee in them so I threw them. I have 2 litter trays down with paper litter in the bottom and hay on top as I found they just love eat/sleep/play/rest hay pile (just like you said they would when I first joined the forum). They eat more hay if it's not in a bag and racks scare me. The thought of getting heads stuck and me not finding them until morning. It's more natural (I read about their wild cousins and I know you can't really compare).

I always keep an eye on their eyes anyway as I know hay pokes are common. Am I right in assuming most pigs will have a hay poke at some point in their life?

On a different note, how on earth did you get 4 hides in 12sqft of space?! I've recently bought large bendy bridge (maybe the wrong size. Huge, for rabbits but thinking boys and squabbles, plenty of room to get out the way). I got 4 (one each) and currently a cardboard box. 2 hay/litter trays and 3 water sources. There's easily enough room for zoomies and space away from each other but no room for a fourth hide. I will be getting a elmato or something similar for both pairs to replace cardboard box. I'll post my set up below.

Also disposable paper/cellulose bedding (megazorb,fitch). Are these ok to use in cooler months? Or should I ideally mix with something like aubiose or woodshavings to keep the top layer drier?

View attachment 168818

(Yes, Jupi is trying to get a lone bit of hay which has landed on the bars despite being next to a huge hay pile)

Mine eat so much more without it being in racks. They love being amongst, in, under, on top of hay!
Yes, haypoke is going to be part and parcel - Dexter has had one, Pops has had two - given their need for hay, while you can minimise, you can’t remove the risk entirely

My old Bluebell hutch was a two storey, it was two bendy log bridges upstairs and two down. (Can’t remember if it was on this thread ghat I posted a picture of how my bluebell used of be, might have been someone else’s thread).
Now in their new hutch, (although it’s a two storey, I have the ramp removed so it’s effectively now two separate single storey hutches) and now they have the elmato, I have bent a bendy log bridge so one side sits on the roof of the elmato and then arches down to the floor (I did that as it made it easier to not block an entrance, plus I could lay a blanket over all of it to keep the warmth in) and then two fleece tunnels at the other end.
I don’t use trays in their hutch though, hay is just everywhere, so it’s easier to fit hideys in as no space is taken up by trays.

About the paper bedding/megazorb - are you talking about when they move outside? (If youre still planning to do that?). I’ve not used paper bedding or megazorb but outside in cooler months, then they’re fine as an under layer for absorbency, but i wouldn’t use them alone - everything gets topped with thick layers of hay in my hutches

 

[Siikibam]

I used to feed the soft timothy from timothyhay. I did buy them the stalky one but not very often. Reason being I also worried about hay poke - I stopped using hay bags long before that.

They also only had two hides at opposite ends of the cage. There wasn’t any squabbling. If I added any, it would be a fleece tunnel or cardboard box. They were okay taking turns.

 

[Engel]

Mine eat so much more without it being in racks. They love being amongst, in, under, on top of hay!
Yes, haypoke is going to be part and parcel - Dexter has had one, Pops has had two - given their need for hay, while you can minimise, you can’t remove the risk entirely

My old Bluebell hutch was a two storey, it was two bendy log bridges upstairs and two down. (Can’t remember if it was on this thread ghat I posted a picture of how my bluebell used of be, might have been someone else’s thread).
Now in their new hutch, (although it’s a two storey, I have the ramp removed so it’s effectively now two separate single storey hutches) and now they have the elmato, I have bent a bendy log bridge so one side sits on the roof of the elmato and then arches down to the floor (I did that as it made it easier to not block an entrance, plus I could lay a blanket over all of it to keep the warmth in) and then two fleece tunnels at the other end.
I don’t use trays in their hutch though, hay is just everywhere, so it’s easier to fit hideys in as no space is taken up by trays.

About the paper bedding/megazorb - are you talking about when they move outside? (If youre still planning to do that?). I’ve not used paper bedding or megazorb but outside in cooler months, then they’re fine as an under layer for absorbency, but i wouldn’t use them alone - everything gets topped with thick layers of hay in my hutches

That's understandable. Ok so not a risk you can remove completely? That's ok I'll just keep an eye and get them treatment of and when.

Oh yes forgot they had access to both levels. Haha. Yes moving them outdoors is still going to happen, just when temperatures are more steady.

In the winter hay will probably be everywhere but summer time when they dont need all that warmth I was going to have a little 'kitchen' area. Essentially a massive heap of hay. I'm using trays while they're on fleece as it's just easier to clean.

Yes paper/megazorb outside. Would it be ok by itself during summer? Would a layer of paper/megazorb with hay on top be ok during winter or should I add another layer like aubiose between the 2 to ensure its not damp underfoot?

As I mentioned I've got some paper litter in the trays under hay and the absorption is great, far superior to wood imo. Just remove poops and wet substrate every day when I poop pick and add fresh hay. It's lovely. Odour controlling too. I tried wood before this and within a day it was all soggy and pee was running in the bottom of the pan. A lot of pee was soaking the hay too but with this it's just....why didn't I try this before type thing. I'm rambling (sorry).

Also I would ideally like something soft underfoot and as I buy paper bedding anyway for me it just makes sense. Obviously if it's not going to work then it's not going to work.

 

[Piggies&buns]

That's understandable. Ok so not a risk you can remove completely? That's ok I'll just keep an eye and get them treatment of and when.

Oh yes forgot they had access to both levels. Haha. Yes moving them outdoors is still going to happen, just when temperatures are more steady.

In the winter hay will probably be everywhere but summer time when they dont need all that warmth I was going to have a little 'kitchen' area. Essentially a massive heap of hay. I'm using trays while they're on fleece as it's just easier to clean.

Yes paper/megazorb outside. Would it be ok by itself during summer? Would a layer of paper/megazorb with hay on top be ok during winter or should I add another layer like aubiose between the 2 to ensure its not damp underfoot?

As I mentioned I've got some paper litter in the trays under hay and the absorption is great, far superior to wood imo. Just remove poops and wet substrate every day when I poop pick and add fresh hay. It's lovely. Odour controlling too. I tried wood before this and within a day it was all soggy and pee was running in the bottom of the pan. A lot of pee was soaking the hay too but with this it's just....why didn't I try this before type thing. I'm rambling (sorry).

Also I would ideally like something soft underfoot and as I buy paper bedding anyway for me it just makes sense. Obviously if it's not going to work then it's not going to work.

Yes paper/megazorb would be ok by itself in summer, it’s a bedding in it’s own right, so doesn’t need to be covered up with hay. I imagine it would also be ok under hay in winter but I’ve not used either though so I can’t comment on it from a personal point of view. I’ve tried the paper pellet one (oh gosh, the name escapes me now) which was good absorbency And fine under hay but felt hard as a stand-alone thing. I love aubiose though it’s not always easy to get hold of, so I use snowflake shavings or soft chip in its absence (topped with hay) again though it’s fine to be used without being topped with hay

EDIT - it’s come to me, the paper pellet is Back2Nature

 

[Engel]

I used to feed the soft timothy from timothyhay. I did buy them the stalky one but not very often. Reason being I also worried about hay poke - I stopped using hay bags long before that.

They also only had two hides at opposite ends of the cage. There wasn’t any squabbling. If I added any, it would be a fleece tunnel or cardboard box. They were okay taking turns.

Once I know my boys are fine and out the terrible teens, I won't be so worried. We've had some silent rumbling from Po. Literally wiggling his bum at Jupi but not making a noise? They've decided to give each other space at the moment. They'll do mutual bum smelling and self grooming being near each other. But currently enjoy sleeping in different hides and not as willing to share the exact same piece of food anymore. Will still do crazy zoomies and popcorn together though.

Mine will only eat haybox Timothy (blend? 1st and 2nd cut I think). Boys aren't as fussy as the girls and may eat other Timothy hay but the girls wouldn't for some reason.

 

[Engel]

Yes paper/megazorb would be ok by itself in summer, it’s a bedding in it’s own right, so doesn’t need to be covered up with hay. I imagine it would also be ok under hay in winter but I’ve not used either though so I can’t comment on it from a personal point of view. I’ve tried the paper pellet one (oh gosh, the name escapes me now) which was good absorbency And fine under hay but felt hard as a stand-alone thing. I love aubiose though it’s not always easy to get hold of, so I use snowflake shavings or soft chip in its absence (topped with hay)

EDIT - it’s come to me, the paper pellet is Back2Nature

Currently I'm using back2nature pellets. I agree too hard underfoot alone. But perfect for litter box with hay over top as this is where mine mostly pee. I originally thought it was where I'd put the box but nope, it's the hay, obviously. Why would I even think it was anything else?

Aubiose does react on my skin BUT I love it too. Omlet (website is called I think) sell it on there quite a bit and Amazon started selling it again too. Idk if you can get it cheaper anywhere else though.

Ok when it comes to winter I'll do a test patch to see how it holds up compared to the rest of the hutch.

Right, summer, flies and flystrike. Can it be avoided with good husbandry? Someone posted on FB a while ago saying that they found maggots in their piggies substrate. (Posted a vid too). I know fruit flies will be interested in piggy poop as we feed them fruits (once a week, max) and veggies.

Something easily avoided or just part of owning pigs/rabbits and to deal with it accordingly when situation arises?

(I will be reading the guide on flystrike on here but just want your opinions)

Also, anything you would add or change about my current setup? Always looking for improvements

 

[Piggies&buns]

Currently I'm using back2nature pellets. I agree too hard underfoot alone. But perfect for litter box with hay over top as this is where mine mostly pee. I originally thought it was where I'd put the box but nope, it's the hay, obviously. Why would I even think it was anything else?

Aubiose does react on my skin BUT I love it too. Omlet (website is called I think) sell it on there quite a bit and Amazon started selling it again too. Idk if you can get it cheaper anywhere else though.

Ok when it comes to winter I'll do a test patch to see how it holds up compared to the rest of the hutch.

Right, summer, flies and flystrike. Can it be avoided with good husbandry? Someone posted on FB a while ago saying that they found maggots in their piggies substrate. (Posted a vid too). I know fruit flies will be interested in piggy poop as we feed them fruits (once a week, max) and veggies.

Something easily avoided or just part of owning pigs/rabbits and to deal with it accordingly when situation arises?

(I will be reading the guide on flystrike on here but just want your opinions)

Also, anything you would add or change about my current setup? Always looking for improvements ☺

I did like the back2nature. I found it easy to remove wet areas etc. The other issue I had with it is that the 30 litre bag just doesn’t last long - rabbits are litter trained so I use much less for them but piggies obviously aren’t and covering all the piggy hutch uses so much.

Thanks for mentioning omlet. I’ve previously got it from Amazon, but it’s hit and miss as to whether I can get it.

Flystrike - Its always something to be vigilant about, good care and cleanliness, check piggies several times a day (twice a day as a minimum), spot any signs and it’s an emergency vet visit. I have never had a case in 30 years of rabbits.

Your set up looks lovely!

 

[Engel]

I did like the back2nature. I found it easy to remove wet areas etc. The other issue I had with it is that the 30 litre bag just doesn’t last long - rabbits are litter trained so I use much less for them but piggies obviously aren’t and covering all the piggy hutch uses so much.

Thanks for mentioning omlet. I’ve previously got it from Amazon, but it’s hit and miss as to whether I can get it.

Flystrike - Its always something to be vigilant about, good care and cleanliness, check piggies several times a day (twice a day as a minimum), spot any signs and it’s an emergency vet visit. I have never had a case in 30 years of rabbits.

Your set up looks lovely!

It's not something I'd use for the whole cage either as I can see it being very costly. But for 'kitchen' area which would be about the same size as what I have now (2ft X 1ft) my rats and hamster use it in litter boxes too.

I don't know if there's any horsey places near you maybe try there or places that can order it in for you?

I've seen stuff in p@h for flystrike (don't know what it is) and I've probably asked before so I do apologize if I have, worth getting or not? Anything I can use to deter flies? Have a pot of mint in the shed with a fly screen on the door? (Was going to make a second door on the inside to allow air in but keep predators out).

Re set-up. Thanks. I'm just going to get a larger ceramic water dish and a hide to replace the cardboard box then I think setup wise I'm done. Need snuggle safes for cooler weather though.

Also am I just lucky, my pigs don't chew anything. They've got some willow sticks to gnaw on but they're not too fussed. That cars box has been in there 2 months, I only binned the others because of pee. Same with cardboard tubes. They're teeth are nice and trim and obviously eating and grinding teeth helps but I thought they'd have a destructive streak?

 

[Piggies&buns]

It's not something I'd use for the whole cage either as I can see it being very costly. But for 'kitchen' area which would be about the same size as what I have now (2ft X 1ft) my rats and hamster use it in litter boxes too.

I don't know if there's any horsey places near you maybe try there or places that can order it in for you?

I've seen stuff in p@h for flystrike (don't know what it is) and I've probably asked before so I do apologize if I have, worth getting or not? Anything I can use to deter flies? Have a pot of mint in the shed with a fly screen on the door? (Was going to make a second door on the inside to allow air in but keep predators out).

Re set-up. Thanks. I'm just going to get a larger ceramic water dish and a hide to replace the cardboard box then I think setup wise I'm done. Need snuggle safes for cooler weather though.

Also am I just lucky, my pigs don't chew anything. They've got some willow sticks to gnaw on but they're not too fussed. That cars box has been in there 2 months, I only binned the others because of pee. Same with cardboard tubes. They're teeth are nice and trim and obviously eating and grinding teeth helps but I thought they'd have a destructive streak?

no sadly there’s not. The farm shop I used to use closed down over a year ago and the next equestrian place is so far away it wouldn’t be cost effective. I can’t get snowflake shavings or chip so they are my alternative, it’s just a shame aubiose isn’t easier to get!

ive not used anything to deter, I just make sure everything is kept clean.
Ive just ordered my new shed (yay! Only a year behind schedule, thanks COVID!) and that is going to have an internal mesh door.

Its only really hay and grass that keeps the teeth down - chewing sticks etc doesn’t do anything for the back teeth.
Mine have a cardboard box in the shed floor. They will chew a little around the entrance I cut in, they’ll chew a carrot cottage roof and around the door. They occasionally chew along the wood of their hutch and they chewed a bit of the ramp in their old hutch but they certainly don’t destroy like others do. The carrot cottage demolition thread shows how destructive they can be but mine seem to Get fed up with a carrot cottage once the flavour has gone and they largely remain in tact

 

[Engel]

I did not know sows rumble too!

 

[Siikibam]

Yup. And mount and hump. But my favourite sow pastime is pee spraying

 

[Engel]

Yup. And mount and hump. But my favourite sow pastime is pee spraying

With how it's going I'm not sure if Dysnomia (younger sow) is having a strong season. She keeps chasing and trying to hump mum. Mum has given her a little headbutt almost to say, oi behave. Other than that she doesn't seem to bothered. Boys have been chinning today and there's quite a strong smell from their cage.

Pee spraying...well they can mind my carpet! Lol

 

[Siikibam]

It could be a strong season. One of my sows (the underpig) had a strong season recently. I found her repeatedly mounting her friend who was actually allowing it to happen (no per spraying so I’m not sure if it’s her forte).

 

[Engel]

It could be a strong season. One of my sows (the underpig) had a strong season recently. I found her repeatedly mounting her friend who was actually allowing it to happen (no per spraying so I’m not sure if it’s her forte).

Give her chance she may just suprise you

 

[Engel]

Oh Po, you're not meant to sleep on top of the bendy bridge! (Didn't realize how high pigs can jump, he's only small and can easily jump it



I was feeding my hamster, and he them decided to pop onto the next one to get a better view of what i was doing while wheeking at me.



I will say out of all my pigs, Po is the most Human oriented, I think he is what you would think of for the stereotypical pig...well, what non pig owners think all pigs are like. He will interact with me every time I'm near the cage and will pancake on me when I hold him. The girls are the same. Jupi...not so much he's strictly a watch only pig and normally holds himself rigid when being held/lap time. He's the one that goes all scatty when you drop a pen while the others carry on eating. Can't believe how different they all are!

 

[Piggies&buns]

My Dexter loves being on top of his bendy log bridge, he’s always climbing on something. Popcorn can do it but he much prefers to have his feet on the ground!

 

[Engel]

Does anyone put a hide in the nest area?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Does anyone put a hide in the nest area?

I used to have two hides in the bedroom area when they had the bluebell hutch, and then filled the whole thing with hay.
In their new hutch the bedroom area is smaller so two bendy log bridges don’t quite fit. They also had no problem with the doorway to the bedroom area in the bluebell but for some reason this new one is causing a bit of bickering (I keep calling it the new one, theyve been in is since last August!) so I removed the dividing wall meaning there is no longer a specific nest area

 

[Engel]

I used to have two hides in the bedroom area when they had the bluebell hutch, and then filled the whole thing with hay.
In their new hutch the bedroom area is smaller so two bendy log bridges don’t quite fit. They also had no problem with the doorway to the bedroom area in the bluebell but for some reason this new one is causing a bit of bickering (I keep calling it the new one, theyve been in is since last August!) so I removed the dividing wall meaning there is no longer a specific nest area

Is the bluebell able to have the divider removed? Currently the boys need 2 exits so that may be something that I may need to do.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Is the bluebell able to have the divider removed? Currently the boys need 2 exits so that may be something that I may need to do.

With the bluebell, it would just be a case of not putting the divider in when the hutch is built.
With my new hutch, the roof is hinged so it can be opened up fully and the divider slots in on runners so I can add and remove it at will. Having an uninterrupted space works well my two

 

[Engel]

With the bluebell, it would just be a case of not putting the divider in when the hutch is built.
With my new hutch, the roof is hinged so it can be opened up fully and the divider slots in on runners so I can add and remove it at will. Having an uninterrupted space works well my two

Ah ok. So it shouldn't make the design weak or anything then? That will make life a whole lot easier.

 

[Engel]

Oh dear. Cabbage appears to make Eris bloat a bit so going to stop it completely. I've tried different cabbages and feeding small amounts every few days. Same thing happens. It's obviously uncomfortable for her as she doesn't eat as much hay. Jupi can't have broccoli for the same reason.

Would it be fair to not feed any of them cabbage or broccoli? Pellets should have the trace minerals which cabbage/broccoli have right?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Oh dear. Cabbage appears to make Eris bloat a bit so going to stop it completely. I've tried different cabbages and feeding small amounts every few days. Same thing happens. It's obviously uncomfortable for her as she doesn't eat as much hay. Jupi can't have broccoli for the same reason.

Would it be fair to not feed any of them cabbage or broccoli? Pellets should have the trace minerals which cabbage/broccoli have right?

It’s absolutely fine to not give cabbage or broccoli. Brassicas can cause bloating.

if you want to try something else instead, then this list may help
Edible And Forbidden Veg And Fruit List With Vitamin C Grading

 

[Piggies&buns]

Ah ok. So it shouldn't make the design weak or anything then? That will make life a whole lot easier.

No, it’ll be fine. there is nothing structural about the dividing wall in the bluebell. Its just a piece of flimsy board

 

[Engel]

No, it’ll be fine. there is nothing structural about the dividing wall in the bluebell. Its just a piece of flimsy board

Ah ok that's good then.

I'll have a look at the list to see if there's anything different on there. They already have a wide variety of veggies anyway so I'll no doubt find something to fill the gap.

 

[Engel]

Woo the shed is up! Tomorrow is the hutch (hopefully).

But I have a slight problem. In the other shed I found a mouse. Not unusual tbh, they normally hide in sheds over winter.

I've moved him somewhere more appropriate. But had me wondering, mouse proofing sheds. Obviously I don't have a issue with them in that one, but in the pig shed is another matter.

Now, I'll be insulating the shed anyway but they'll be able to chew through that. I've been thinking of galvanised mesh.

Any ideas on how to mouse proof a shed?

 

[Engel]

I was thinking of getting a run for the pigs but we have ants.

Also, as we have dogs that toilet on the grass. How long should I wait to put pigs on the grass? This spot is the least used too, they don't really go there.

 

[Siikibam]

I would completely section off an area where they won't go at all. I don't know how long you would have to wait to put them there though. And are the ants in that area/the whole lawn?

 

[Engel]

I would completely section off an area where they won't go at all. I don't know how long you would have to wait to put them there though. And are the ants in that area/the whole lawn?

Yes, whole lawn. Both black and red
Is it worth putting them out on the grass at all?

 

[Siikibam]

I'd deal with the ants first before you put them out. If you can't then perhaps get them grass from a dog pee free area.