Engel's Herd

[Engel]

Thought I would properly update everyone on the herd.

Eileithyia-Eris is doing really well, looking very healthy. She's 3 weeks post nursing, well closer to 4 as she stopped nursing when they were roughly 2 1/2 weeks old. She still isn't quite there yet, still a tad slim and I can feel the bones a bit more than I'd like but she's getting there slowly. Today she's weighed in at 811g.



Dysnomia is now 6 weeks old and is a chunk but follows her mum for her length although I don't know if you can see that in the photos. Eris and herself are getting on well and have had no squabbles so far. She has a healthy appetite and even now she's heavier than her brother. Her personality is really showing now, very vocal when there's something she doesn't like. Very sassy. Not a fan of cuddles but is definitely not afraid of the hand, especially if food is involved.Today she weighed in at 457g!



Jupiter is still not 100% with people but is a lot better. Still a bit jumpy if you move to quick but I'm putting this down to just the way he is. He'll come and take food out of my hand. I can't reach down and pet him but I can't do that with any of them yet but can stroke them when out of the cage. He's doing really well with Apollo and isn't showing any signs of being unhappy with his cage mate. Today he weighed in at 793g.



Apollo seems to really like Jupiter and is often found in close proximity or popcorning around the cage with him. Apollo is a real snuggle bug. Personality wise he is the opposite of Jupiter, happy go lucky type, confident where as Jupiter is more reserved and cautious. At the moment they seem to compliment each other very well and Apollo looks to be bringing the best out of him. He is much like Jupiter in the sense that he's quite short but stocky in his build. Today he has weighed in at 436g.



I hope you will all agree that they've made great progress. As always any advice/questions are welcome

 

[Siikibam]

They look so much like their mum! I’m so glad they’re doing well. That is in part down to you so give yourself a pat on the back. You’ve done a good job. Hopefully Eileithyia-Eris will also recover her body condition soon

 

[Merab]

So lovely to see such happy and healthy piggies
They are all gorgeous

 

[Engel]

They look so much like their mum! I’m so glad they’re doing well. That is in part down to you so give yourself a pat on the back. You’ve done a good job. Hopefully Eileithyia-Eris will also recover her body condition soon

Yes they are I'm going to have trouble telling Dysnomia and Eileithyia apart when Mia is bigger.

Vet was very pleased with their condition and kept saying how healthy/nice and shiny their coats are which makes me think they're more used to seeing pigs in poorer condition

I can't take all the credit, I couldn't have done it without the help from @Piggies&buns @Wiebke and yourself (I've probably missed some folks, sorry if I have). So thank you for taking the time to guide me through this.

She has regained a lot of her condition to be fair, 200g since the birth which is amazing. I don't think it helps that she's still growing herself. It's just her weight/heft that needs to catch up a bit more, everything else is fine

 

[Engel]

So lovely to see such happy and healthy piggies
They are all gorgeous

Thank you

 

[Piggies&buns]

Gorgeous piggies! I’m so glad they are all happy!

 

[Wiebke]

Thought I would properly update everyone on the herd.

Eileithyia-Eris is doing really well, looking very healthy. She's 3 weeks post nursing, well closer to 4 as she stopped nursing when they were roughly 2 1/2 weeks old. She still isn't quite there yet, still a tad slim and I can feel the bones a bit more than I'd like but she's getting there slowly. Today she's weighed in at 811g.

View attachment 164333View attachment 164334

Dysnomia is now 6 weeks old and is a chunk but follows her mum for her length although I don't know if you can see that in the photos. Eris and herself are getting on well and have had no squabbles so far. She has a healthy appetite and even now she's heavier than her brother. Her personality is really showing now, very vocal when there's something she doesn't like. Very sassy. Not a fan of cuddles but is definitely not afraid of the hand, especially if food is involved.Today she weighed in at 457g!

View attachment 164335View attachment 164336View attachment 164337

Jupiter is still not 100% with people but is a lot better. Still a bit jumpy if you move to quick but I'm putting this down to just the way he is. He'll come and take food out of my hand. I can't reach down and pet him but I can't do that with any of them yet but can stroke them when out of the cage. He's doing really well with Apollo and isn't showing any signs of being unhappy with his cage mate. Today he weighed in at 793g.

View attachment 164338View attachment 164339

Apollo seems to really like Jupiter and is often found in close proximity or popcorning around the cage with him. Apollo is a real snuggle bug. Personality wise he is the opposite of Jupiter, happy go lucky type, confident where as Jupiter is more reserved and cautious. At the moment they seem to compliment each other very well and Apollo looks to be bringing the best out of him. He is much like Jupiter in the sense that he's quite short but stocky in his build. Today he has weighed in at 436g.

View attachment 164341View attachment 164340View attachment 164342

I hope you will all agree that they've made great progress. As always any advice/questions are welcome

What a lovely bunch!

Just continue with a good normal hay based diet and all will come right in its own time. Eileithya will eventually fill out once all the nutrition is filtering through into her own body; it can sometimes happen in one big lump some weeks or months down the line once the bodily reserves have been refilled and the extra can go into fat reserves and help to fill her out. She has still got nearly a year before she reaches adulthood and until about 2 years of age to make up any deficits and - if there is nothing wrong with her genetic makeup - live a perfectly healthy life and a normal life span. Concentrate on the quality and not so much the quantity; it is the quality of her food that wins the race of life in my own experience with adopting mothers (some of them with repeated back-to-back pregnancies in neglect situations).

All the others will reach their own genetically optimum size and weight in their own time. What you are aiming for is that your piggies are the perfect weight for their genetically determined size, which can vary a lot individually. You feel the BMI around the ribcage - you should be able to just feel the ribs but you should not be able to feel every single rib standing out. If you can't feel any ribs, your piggy is overweight. The BMI (or heft) gives you the ball park for each piggy's healthy weight range; especially as an adult. The weekly weigh-in then monitors the changes within that healthy range in order to catch any developing health problems or monitors the daily food (especially hay intake) in an ill piggy so you can adjust the level and frequency of support feeding according by weighing daily at the same time.
Our weight guide looks at all these aspects (and more) in more detail: Weight - Monitoring and Management

 

[Engel]

What a lovely bunch!

Just continue with a good normal hay based diet and all will come right in its own time. Eileithya will eventually fill out once all the nutrition is filtering through into her own body; it can sometimes happen in one big lump some weeks or months down the line once the bodily reserves have been refilled and the extra can go into fat reserves and help to fill her out. She has still got nearly a year before she reaches adulthood and until about 2 years of age to make up any deficits and - if there is nothing wrong with her genetic makeup - live a perfectly healthy life and a normal life span. Concentrate on the quality and not so much the quantity; it is the quality of her food that wins the race of life in my own experience with adopting mothers (some of them with repeated back-to-back pregnancies in neglect situations).

All the others will reach their own genetically optimum size and weight in their own time. What you are aiming for is that your piggies are the perfect weight for their genetically determined size, which can vary a lot individually. You feel the BMI around the ribcage - you should be able to just feel the ribs but you should not be able to feel every single rib standing out. If you can't feel any ribs, your piggy is overweight. The BMI (or heft) gives you the ball park for each piggy's healthy weight range; especially as an adult. The weekly weigh-in then monitors the changes within that healthy range in order to catch any developing health problems or monitors the daily food (especially hay intake) in an ill piggy so you can adjust the level and frequency of support feeding according by weighing daily at the same time.
Our weight guide looks at all these aspects (and more) in more detail: Weight - Monitoring and Management

Yes that's what I am doing and my way of thinking, it'll come right when she's ready. She put on a massive amount in the beginning. As I said she's looking really good. It's not until you look at her front on that you can make out her spine a bit too much. Definitely can still feel the ribs, hardly any fat there really BUT I am comparing her to Jupiter and he's a different build.

This is everyone's diet at the moment:
1 table spoon pellets (science selective grain free)
1 cup of veggies
Unlimited hay (haybox)
2-3 times a week they get a dry herb mix mixed into their hay for foraging enrichment.

They're all really active. I'm wondering if they're burning off the calories faster than they can store them. I'm also starting to think that 12sq feet isn't big enough for 2 boys as they race around the whole area like nuts (while popcorning).

I don't know anything about her genetic background unfortunately but I'll be happy with any amount of time I have with her. (Quality of life is better than quantity). It'd be nice if I can have 4+ years with them which I know is young really for pigs really. They'll be spoilt and treated like kings and queens during their time here. Everyone says that I'm a bit over the top with my pets (with diet, cage/habitat, litter/substrate, health) but the way I see it is if you're not going to do it properly, don't do it at all.

Thanks Wiebke.

That reminds me that I need to get more critical care.

Ah that's the thread I was trying to find, been searching all morning and kept going round in circles lol

 

[Engel]

Right @Siikibam and @Piggies&buns (and anyone else who keep pigs outdoors. I found this on Pinterest. (The tub hide)


Is this something that we can do for pigs (not in warm weather obviously it'll be like a oven), but the cooler months?

 

[Siikibam]

Do you mean for lawn time or floor time in the shed? Only if it won’t be baked by the sun. And smaller so they’d have the choice to not share one hide.

 

[Engel]

Do you mean for lawn time or floor time in the shed? Only if it won’t be baked by the sun. And smaller so they’d have the choice to not share one hide.

My pigs wouldn't be able to have lawn time.
Moss covers the garden and I have dogs. There's also foxes and many birds of prey. I'll be growing some grass specifically for them (Trixie small animal grass or something) but whether I'll be able to put the tray in there for them to have a little dig around in I don't know (thinking weight wise as I was going to do c&c extension outside the hutch to allow them to have extra space at the same time without the worry of them interacting).

I will try to have them in a run on the patio with some fleece down so they can stretch their legs, although I am sure my anxiety will be sky high the whole time they're out.

I've been looking at hides to have in their hutch and I'm kind of stuck. Summer is easy as I can use cardboard boxes and fabric houses and fleece forest type things, but it's when it's cooler. I worry about cardboard getting too damp? Bendy bridges are on the list and the only other thing is the house piggies&buns mentioned (elmato 3 exit hide). Everything else looks too small?

Any ideas?

 

[Siikibam]

Mine have wooden corner hides. I do have one bendy bridge. I used to use cardboard boxes quite a lot as well, they absolutely loved them. I don’t know why I don’t do it now actually!

 

[Engel]

Mine have wooden corner hides. I do have one bendy bridge. I used to use cardboard boxes quite a lot as well, they absolutely loved them. I don’t know why I don’t do it now actually!

Was toying with the idea of corner hides but I wasn't sure as they only have 1 exit. This is the biggest I found but some are saying it's too small for one pig let alone 2

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000V6DMBC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_Gc1dGbZ5J4Y24

I feel real bad as I've had pigs for 2-3 months now and I haven't bought them a hide. Cardboard boxes and DIY fabric houses is what they currently have. Could I use cardboard boxes in their hutch during colder months if they're stuffed with hay?

 

[Siikibam]

Was toying with the idea of corner hides but I wasn't sure as they only have 1 exit. This is the biggest I found but some are saying it's too small for one pig let alone 2

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000V6DMBC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_Gc1dGbZ5J4Y24

I feel real bad as I've had pigs for 2-3 months now and I haven't bought them a hide. Cardboard boxes and DIY fabric houses is what they currently have. Could I use cardboard boxes in their hutch during colder months if they're stuffed with hay?

I have the one below which I think is smaller. Cardboard would work. I would also cover it with a fleece or something. Mine have their hides covered with two bath mats and they have hay stuffed in there as well.

Corner Cabin for Small Pets

 

[Piggies&buns]

Mine still use cardboard boxes in winter. Mostly in the shed floor rather than in their hutch though
I used to have corner hides with one exit but only after their teens and when I was sure they were fine together. They were only big enough for one piggy. I don’t use them now as they chewed it to bits!

 

[Engel]

Mine still use cardboard boxes in winter. Mostly in the shed floor rather than in their hutch though
I used to have corner hides with one exit but only after their teens and when I was sure they were fine together. They were only big enough for one piggy. I don’t use them now as they chewed it to bits!

Yeh that's what I worried about. When they go outside in April (unless it's still way too cold then it'll be later) Apollo will be 3 months and Jupiter will be 7 months old so may not be the best idea.

In the 'nesting' part of the hutches do you put hides in there or just ram it full with hay and some snuggle safes?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yeh that's what I worried about. When they go outside in April (unless it's still way too cold then it'll be later) Apollo will be 3 months and Jupiter will be 7 months old so may not be the best idea.

In the 'nesting' part of the hutches do you put hides in there or just ram it full with hay and some snuggle safes?

When they were in their old hutch, I had two of the bendy log bridges side by side but in the middle of the space so they could still walk in front of and behind the log huts. I then stuffed it full with hay. I put a snugglesafe under each log bridge in winter

Their new hutch doesn’t have the dividing wall to make a nest area - I took it out as it wasn’t positioned well (in proportion to the rest of the hutch) and made the bedroom area feel too small. Theyve still got hides in the end that would be their bedroom area (stuffed with hay, snugglesafe in winter)

 

[Engel]

When they were in their old hutch, I had two of the bendy log bridges side by side but in the middle of the space so they could still walk in front of and behind the log huts. I then stuffed it full with hay. I put a snugglesafe under each log bridge in winter

Their new hutch doesn’t have the dividing wall to make a nest area - I took it out as it wasn’t positioned well (in proportion to the rest of the hutch) and made the bedroom area feel too small. Theyve still got hides in the end that would be their bedroom area (stuffed with hay, snugglesafe in winter)

Ah ok. May copy that idea and see how they get on.

How many hides do you have for your 2 boys? I don't want to have too many so they can't zoom about. But I don't want an empty hutch either.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Ah ok. May copy that idea and see how they get on.

How many hides do you have for your 2 boys? I don't want to have too many so they can't zoom about. But I don't want an empty hutch either.

When in their hutch I have four. They've currently got the elmato and a bendy log bridge at one end. At the other end they have two fleece tunnels overnight.
When in the shed for playtime they have a further four

 

[Engel]

When in their hutch I have four. They've currently got the elmato and a bendy log bridge at one end. At the other end they have two fleece tunnels overnight.
When in the shed for playtime they have a further four

Ok. So I'll aim for 4-5 in the hutch. I was going to get bendy bridges and the elmato or there's a similar one called the Hop Inn?

What are your thoughts on sea grass hides and wicker tunnels?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Ok. So I'll aim for 4-5 in the hutch. I was going to get bendy bridges and the elmato or there's a similar one called the Hop Inn?

What are your thoughts on sea grass hides and wicker tunnels?

yes the Hop Inn is also fine. I had seen that one as well.

I personally dont use sea grass/wicker tunnels but they are fine to be used.

 

[Engel]

yes the Hop Inn is also fine. I had seen that one as well.

I personally dont use sea grass/wicker tunnels but they are fine to be used.

Ah that's ok then. Didn't know if they were safe for them. I've purposely avoided buying them because I wasn't sure. Mwahaha now I know they're safe...piggies going to have presents

 

[Engel]

Babies are 8 weeks old now and a lot heavier than what Jupiter was when he was 10 weeks (he was 300 and something grams. Babies are 502g and 511g)! Really there's nothing to update you on other than weight and size. They're both doing so well!

Jupiter and Eileithyia weren't very pleased last week as I had to buy pet shop hay as I was out of haybox hay and waiting for it to be delivered (which thankfully was a couple of days)...now that it's here they're both happy and popcorning and zooming like mad. Who would've though a change in hay could upset a pig?

Anyways I did a little photoshoot with the pigs in natural light, so they are that shiny they're not wet nor did I use extra lighting or flash. I am actually amazed how shiny they are, or in fact how shiny pigs can be in general.

Without further ado... PIGGY PICTURES!


(I can't believe how similar the coat pattern is)

 

[Engel]

Now for the boys

(I can't believe that these 2 share food? My girls snatch it off each other)

 

[Merab]

 

[Engel]

Just a quick question for you all which I may have asked before but can't remember. I know pigs can fall out at any time in their lives. But could how they are now (boars) reflect how they'll be in a year's time? I know hormone's play a massive role too but generally speaking? Apollo and Jupiter just seem to be amazing together (been together properly almost 2 months but have lived next door since birth). Within the next few weeks I won't be surprised if Apollo's hormones start kicking in considering he's about 2 months old now and Jupi started rumbling a lot around 3 months old.

It's strange really...I haven't heard much rumbling at all. (Other than the usual rumble, popcorn, zoom, rumble, repeat). Maybe the calm before the storm

 

[Siikibam]

I don’t know that there’s any way to tell how they’ll be in a year. Things can change and sometimes hierarchies can shift. But enjoy them as they are now. If you get to that bridge then you can cross it then. It’s unfortunate that boars get such a bad rap.

 

[Engel]

I don’t know that there’s any way to tell how they’ll be in a year. Things can change and sometimes hierarchies can shift. But enjoy them as they are now. If you get to that bridge then you can cross it then. It’s unfortunate that boars get such a bad rap.

I know and realise that now. They're lovely. As I have both sows and boars I get the best of both I suppose and tbh I don't have a preference.

I have got things planned out if things go wrong. But was just curious. They seem to mesh so well!

 

[Piggies&buns]

i really wouldnt dwell on it. Yes, absolutely have a plan so you aren’t caught off guard and can act fast if there is a sudden problem, but there is every chance they will get on brilliantly forever more.

 

[Engel]

i really wouldnt dwell on it. Yes, absolutely have a plan so you aren’t caught off guard and can act fast if there is a sudden problem, but there is every chance they will get on brilliantly forever more.

I hope so. They've got a lovely bond