DISCUSSION THREAD ABOUT DENTAL IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT -

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Merab's Slave said:
Although I haven’t contributed to this debate as I am in the fortunate position of not having had piggies with dental issues, I have been following it.

It’s clear this is a very emotive issue for a whole host of reasons but what has saddened me is that some of the debate has been less than gracious.
I have always valued the respect of different opinions shown to people, the courtesy which is usually shown on the forum and the thoughtfulness evidenced.

The forum feels fractured at the moment and I wish it wasn’t.
Please forum friends can we calm down a bit, remember the courtesy and respect for differing points of view that is one of the forum’s strengths and try to listen to each other.

It’s upsetting to know that people are being hurt here, after all, we all care deeply about our piggies and their wellbeing.

Debbie, I’m sorry the stress is making you sick and hope it will ease soon. I will be holding you in my thoughts.
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Thankyou for your kind words. I think that whatever anyone's viewpoint is, whether or not they have any experience of dentals, conscious or not, or if they have insufficient experience to have a viewpoint, we need to remember that the TEAS sanctuary pigs have all been nursed back to health by Debbie and we all know how nursing a piggy deepens our bond with them. The possibility that some of these piggies could end up losing their lives must be truly heartbreaking for her. They are more than sanctuary pigs and they are more than pets. I think that she deserves the compassion of the forum, regardless of where we might stand on the issue. Small words of kindness can go a very long way.
 
I don’t think many people understand at all. I’ve had some say well at least they’re not your pets, just think of the poor owners and how they will feel. If I didn’t care deeply, I wouldn’t be doing this! If I can’t save them, this will totally break me! 😢
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
I don’t think many people understand at all. I’ve had some say well at least they’re not your pets, just think of the poor owners and how they will feel. If I didn’t care deeply, I wouldn’t be doing this! If I can’t save them, this will totally break me! 😢
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I am so sorry to hear this Debbie. There is definitely an element of society not understanding the impact and bond with animals, small animals in particular.

There is also something very British about having to say something, anything, to try and make things better which often results in people saying the wrong thing simply out of a need to say something. I have been trying to change my reactions about things by simply saying "I'm sorry it's so s**t, do you want company?"

Do try to keep us updated on what Simon and Kim think may help so we can all try our best to influence decisions.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
I don’t think many people understand at all. I’ve had some say well at least they’re not your pets, just think of the poor owners and how they will feel. If I didn’t care deeply, I wouldn’t be doing this! If I can’t save them, this will totally break me! 😢
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You have saved so many already you've done so much it's so hard when things feel out of your control especially if you're used to being the one who comes to the rescue in everyone else's hour of need. Compassion and empathy are wonderful things and you have them by the bucket load but they make everyone else's suffering your suffering and everyone else's struggles your struggles so I can see how you're feeling the pain of everyone this will affect. I hate the "look who has it worse" mentally when it comes to helping people who are struggling I don't think it's ever made anyone feel better it's just shown them who to avoid talking about their problems too.

Try and take care of yourself Debbie as hard as that may be ❤️
 
Lady Kelly said:
I am so sorry to hear this Debbie. There is definitely an element of society not understanding the impact and bond with animals, small animals in particular.

There is also something very British about having to say something, anything, to try and make things better which often results in people saying the wrong thing simply out of a need to say something. I have been trying to change my reactions about things by simply saying "I'm sorry it's so s**t, do you want company?"

Do try to keep us updated on what Simon and Kim think may help so we can all try our best to influence decisions.
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You make a very good point there! Yes, I do think people feel they need to say something and it comes out all wrong!

I'm feeling a little bit better today, but desperately need some sleep. Meg has been in the vets today and has been spayed. Thank goodness we did, as she had two masses, one in each uterine horn. Meg doesn't live here, but with Emma and Andrew at TEAS West Hunsbury, so she will be going back there tonight, but depending on how she is, she may be coming to me tomorrow, as Emma and Andrew will be at work all day.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
I don’t think many people understand at all. I’ve had some say well at least they’re not your pets, just think of the poor owners and how they will feel. If I didn’t care deeply, I wouldn’t be doing this! If I can’t save them, this will totally break me! 😢
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I fully understand where you are coming from, they are not pets and owners - they're family! Every single one of my pets over the years (and believe me, it's in the hundreds!) Have never been classed as mere animals - they're family! 👍
 
Bonnie320121 said:
Hi, I'm more than happy to write a testimonial and also email the British Veterinary Zoological Society directly if it will help. My lovely Lola wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Kim and the excellent care she showed Lola.
Do I write my testimonial on here as part of this thread?
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@furryfriends (TEAS) do you have an email address for the above poster to write their testimonial? I guess it may be easier rather than copying and pasting from here?
 
Bonnie320121 said:
Hi, I'm more than happy to write a testimonial and also email the British Veterinary Zoological Society directly if it will help. My lovely Lola wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Kim and the excellent care she showed Lola.
Do I write my testimonial on here as part of this thread?
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[email protected]
 
Is there a statement or anything on how a conscious dental actually works.

In all honestly I do not really understand how these are preformed. Are they done on the back teeth or just the incisors?
If they are done on the back teeth, I am wondering how this is made possible. I do not feel exactly sure how you keep the guinea pig still enough to file down the teeth, spurs etc. while fully conscious.

When my boy was sick, they used a (I cant remember the name) tool of some sort to look at the back teeth and my boy was moving about and gagging the whole time. Any additional information would be appreciated.
 
Bonnie320121 said:
Hi, I'm more than happy to write a testimonial and also email the British Veterinary Zoological Society directly if it will help. My lovely Lola wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Kim and the excellent care she showed Lola.
Do I write my testimonial on here as part of this thread?
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Thank you!

Please email to
[email protected]
 
piggl said:
Is there a statement or anything on how a conscious dental actually works.

In all honestly I do not really understand how these are preformed. Are they done on the back teeth or just the incisors?
If they are done on the back teeth, I am wondering how this is made possible. I do not feel exactly sure how you keep the guinea pig still enough to file down the teeth, spurs etc. while fully conscious.

When my boy was sick, they used a (I cant remember the name) tool of some sort to look at the back teeth and my boy was moving about and gagging the whole time. Any additional information would be appreciated.
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I have never been present when Kim has performed conscious dentistry on Lola but every time she has brought her back after her treatment she has always been very calm and Lola is quite nervous piggy. I think there is a certain amount of trust needed between pet owner and the vet you are entrusting your pets care to and all I can say is that I totally trust Kim with Lola's care.
 
Bonnie320121 said:
I have never been present when Kim has performed conscious dentistry on Lola but every time she has brought her back after her treatment she has always been very calm and Lola is quite nervous piggy. I think there is a certain amount of trust needed between pet owner and the vet you are entrusting your pets care to and all I can say is that I totally trust Kim with Lola's care.
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Seeing the amazing work they continually do, I can not imagine why you would not entrust them.

The issue is that I can not find anything about conscious dentals at all, how they work or anything.
I have plenty of vet books and none of them include anything about such.
 
@furryfriends (TEAS)

s there any chance you can start a new thread with your original plea for help in? I can then link the notice to it

Tt is this wording below i am after with your forum name posting it, that way i can link the notice on main page to that and people don't have to wade through the various discussion we've had going on and we can pop your email in their to send testimonial's to

VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT FOR ANYONE WHO HAS HAD A GUINEA PIG TREATED FOR DENTAL ISSUES BY SIMON OR KIM MADDOCK AT THE CAT AND RABBIT CARE CLINIC

WE NEED YOUR HELP!

Some of you may already be aware of a Position Statement that was published in March 2023 by the British Veterinary Zoological Society, regarding the use of anaesthesia in rabbit, guinea pig and chinchilla dental procedures. I will add the link to this document, at the bottom of this announcement.
Unfortunately, it is looking increasingly likely that the use of conscious dentals will be prohibited, which means unthinkable consequences for our ‘extra special dental piggies’ here at TEAS, as well as to the very many more guinea pigs, who benefit from this life-saving dental work.
We would like to put together as much evidence, to show the success of this procedure and this is where you can help! We are, therefore, collecting testimonials from owners, who have, or have had, guinea pigs with dental disease that have been treated by Simon and Kim! If you can help by submitting a testimonial, please do so!
This method of treating dental issues works so well and the results speak for themselves! In the 12 years that TEAS has been running, we have been able to save the lives of so many and it would be a complete travesty if this had to stop!
This does mean that for the foreseeable future, TEAS will be unable to offer places to any further guinea pigs with dental issues, which is heart-breaking, but for now we need to concentrate on fighting this!

https://www.bvzs.co.uk/wp-content/u...XbUga7VupY1Ci_Ns3h9Zw9g7XTvKawxQ9wtzy8Pb4eWdw


We can then pop your email in it also
 
piggl said:
Seeing the amazing work they continually do, I can not imagine why you would not entrust them.

The issue is that I can not find anything about conscious dentals at all, how they work or anything.
I have plenty of vet books and none of them include anything about such.
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Fun you should mention this. I was looking through I book I had got off facebook, TEAS fundraising one of all places. Collins family pet guides by Peter Gurney, under the section about healthcare and treatable medical conditions.
Dental and mouth problems
Treatment: there is no nerves in a guinea pig's teeth and therefore any routine corrective dental work should always be carried out without an anaesthetic. Usually, by the time the problem is diagnosed the guinea pig is not fit enough to survive a GA. So if this problem occurs, seek out a vet who will carry out this work without GA.

Now I know it's not a newer book, and aimed at people just starting out with piggies but nice to see it mentioned.
 
Crystella said:
Fun you should mention this. I was looking through I book I had got off facebook, TEAS fundraising one of all places. Collins family pet guides by Peter Gurney, under the section about healthcare and treatable medical conditions.
Dental and mouth problems
Treatment: there is no nerves in a guinea pig's teeth and therefore any routine corrective dental work should always be carried out without an anaesthetic. Usually, by the time the problem is diagnosed the guinea pig is not fit enough to survive a GA. So if this problem occurs, seek out a vet who will carry out this work without GA.

Now I know it's not a newer book, and aimed at people just starting out with piggies but nice to see it mentioned.
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That’s quite interesting, and he’s quite right.

Many owners, including me, have been a victim of a treatable dental issue becoming untreatable due to the GA needed.
Thanks for sharing
 
piggl said:
Is there a statement or anything on how a conscious dental actually works.

In all honestly I do not really understand how these are preformed. Are they done on the back teeth or just the incisors?
If they are done on the back teeth, I am wondering how this is made possible. I do not feel exactly sure how you keep the guinea pig still enough to file down the teeth, spurs etc. while fully conscious.

When my boy was sick, they used a (I cant remember the name) tool of some sort to look at the back teeth and my boy was moving about and gagging the whole time. Any additional information would be appreciated.
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It’s done on both the back teeth and the incisors. The incisors are burred and back teeth are filed with a very tiny instrument.
Usually you’ll see the back teeth being checked with a different tool than what Simon uses. The tool I believe you’re speaking of is an otoscope type of tool. Simon does not use this, he uses an entirely different and greatly effective way which opens the mouth entirely and gently and keeps the piggy comfortable whilst doing so. This means the pig is still and the back teeth are almost totally exposed.
 
Little Ones said:
It’s done on both the back teeth and the incisors. The incisors are burred and back teeth are filed with a very tiny instrument.
Usually you’ll see the back teeth being checked with a different tool than what Simon uses. The tool I believe you’re speaking of is an otoscope type of tool. Simon does not use this, he uses an entirely different and greatly effective way which opens the mouth entirely and gently and keeps the piggy comfortable whilst doing so. This means the pig is still and the back teeth are almost totally exposed.
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It was some sort of otoscope yes.
Thanks for the information, that is very helpful!
 
I think it's a difficult debate.i still think a written academic paper nèeds to be written.research into conscious dentals.ive had first hand experience of a piggie having dentals that were incorrect,kim and simon had to repair the mess.
Debbie you are not alone ,I quietly feel angry that it's come to this.you have done so much for piggies that would have passed without your support.
 
eileen said:
I think it's a difficult debate.i still think a written academic paper nèeds to be written.research into conscious dentals.ive had first hand experience of a piggie having dentals that were incorrect,kim and simon had to repair the mess.
Debbie you are not alone ,I quietly feel angry that it's come to this.you have done so much for piggies that would have passed without your support.
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I think you are right Eileen, a paper should have been written. We all know here that the evidence speaks for itself. Life gets in the way of busy vets and anyone who knows Simon knows he is a rather kind, quiet, unassuming man who would find it difficult to blow his own trumpet. But yes, it’s such a shame this has reared its ugly head out of the blue. I think rabbit dentistry is another totally different matter and no one in their right mind would even attempt to give a rabbit a dental without GA
 
I wonder what has made the BVZS decide to come out against it now. I can imagine that they would want to put a stop to the conscious dental work done by unqualified rodentologists, and possibly most vets assume that anyone doing conscious dentals is one of them (my own vet seemed to assume that, when I admitted Squeaks had had his molars done already). Perhaps as it's not taught at vet college they think that no vet would do it. I hope they can be persuaded to at least commission some new research into dental treatment of guinea pigs specifically, so they can see that it does work when done properly. We all want the best for our little furry masters 💓
 
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