DISCUSSION THREAD ABOUT DENTAL IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT -

I will try and write a testimonial about my experience with Squeaks' dental problems.
Should we keep it general, or be more specific re C&R?

I note that it is supported by the RWAF. But also that most of the references at the bottom are to papers/studies involving rabbits. Hardly any are more general about other rodents, and I think only one specifically mentions guinea pigs. They may both be small furry animals with continually growing teeth, but their reaction to fear and pain aren't necessarily the same. And if the studies involve guineas that have been kept at the uni/vet college for the purposes of study, they are going to react more strongly than pets that are used to handling, too.

I'm taking Squeaks to have his incisors burred by my local vet later this morning. I wonder if I'll get told off again ...
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
I will try and write a testimonial about my experience with Squeaks' dental problems.
Should we keep it general, or be more specific re C&R?

I note that it is supported by the RWAF. But also that most of the references at the bottom are to papers/studies involving rabbits. Hardly any are more general about other rodents, and I think only one specifically mentions guinea pigs. They may both be small furry animals with continually growing teeth, but their reaction to fear and pain aren't necessarily the same. And if the studies involve guineas that have been kept at the uni/vet college for the purposes of study, they are going to react more strongly than pets that are used to handling, too.

I'm taking Squeaks to have his incisors burred by my local vet later this morning. I wonder if I'll get told off again ...
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It is very rabbit focussed and I fully agree that rabbits should be anaethetised for dental work. However, guinea pigs are a totally different species, they don't react so well to GA and they are more likely to need much more frequent dental work, especially in the early stages. With rabbits, as long as you get rid of any spiky bits from the teeth, the rabbit will eat. With guinea pigs, you need to get the teeth balanced correctly and to achieve this, you need to be able to regularly correct the teeth, before any soft tissue trauma occurs. More vets should be being taught how to do successful guinea pig dentals, as even those who do GA dentals, in most cases, don't get them right.

Please make your testimonial mainly specific to the work that Simon/Kim do.

I hope Squeaks appointment goes well today.
 
anyar.dris said:
@furryfriends (TEAS) Debbie, I hoped my hubby Keith has told you he will write a testimonial about this. You know how much he can waffle on. 😁 We've had a few piggies who were treated for dental issues by Simon and we know how very benificial what they do.
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He has, bless him! He’s said he’ll probably write a whole book! 😂
 
I will be sending one. Ted would have been put to sleep more than 2.5 years before his time if it weren’t for finding Kim and Simon. I’m quite disgusted by the BVZS arrogance. I think a video of the technique would be a really great idea @Bradshaw Piggies suggests

Would “The Guinea Pig Forum” be able to back this with a statement?
 
Bill & Ted said:
I will be sending one. Ted would have been put to sleep more than 2.5 years before his time if it weren’t for finding Kim and Simon. I’m quite disgusted by the BVZS arrogance. I think a video of the technique would be a really great idea @Bradshaw Piggies suggests

Would “The Guinea Pig Forum” be able to back this with a statement?
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Your Ted is a perfect example of why C&Rs conscious dentistry is better than GA dentistry and not cruel I think - he had had treatment under GA that left him unable to eat, whereas he was eating again straight after seeing Simon, wasn't he?
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
Your Ted is a perfect example of why C&Rs conscious dentistry is better than GA dentistry and not cruel I think - he had had treatment under GA that left him unable to eat, whereas he was eating again straight after seeing Simon, wasn't he?
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Absolutely! he was eating hay before we even left the C&R on that first visit and dental, I was totally amazed
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
Yet they remain insistent that this method is ineffective, whilst also being stressful and not in their welfare interests!
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They can just ask the owners that has guinea pigs that Simon has treated. No one would travel as far as from Scotland to C&R if conscious dental doesn't work. I believe there was even from Jersey (?).
 
I have family down but will try and get one done tomorrow night Debbie
 
Is there anything else we can do, for people who have not been able to get such amazing care at C&R?

I had to put my 5 year old boy down a couple months ago as his back teeth (top and bottom) were both going the incorrect way, and the need for monthly dentals with GA was a welfare and quality of life issue.
His symptoms, gut stasis from inability to digest food correctly and ulcers, came back only 3 weeks after his initial dental, which was his first and only dental.
I believe if we had access to such a thing as conscious dentals, I would have had longer with my boy. My boy was weak with everything going on, so the act of getting a GA dental every 3 weeks was cruel and would do more harm than good.

He was my 'soul pig', and I would have done anything to get some more time with him so if anything I would be thinking/looking for there to be more teachings and understanding of conscious dentals.
Sorry you have to put up with this, the fact they do not wish to even look into the procedure is heartbreaking. They reference the potential need for 4-10 weekly dentals but refuse to speak about the tole GA can/will take on such animals.
 
piggl said:
Is there anything else we can do, for people who have not been able to get such amazing care at C&R?

I had to put my 5 year old boy down a couple months ago as his back teeth (top and bottom) were both going the incorrect way, and the need for monthly dentals with GA was a welfare and quality of life issue.
His symptoms, gut stasis from inability to digest food correctly and ulcers, came back only 3 weeks after his initial dental, which was his first and only dental.
I believe if we had access to such a thing as conscious dentals, I would have had longer with my boy. My boy was weak with everything going on, so the act of getting a GA dental every 3 weeks was cruel and would do more harm than good.

He was my 'soul pig', and I would have done anything to get some more time with him so if anything I would be thinking/looking for there to be more teachings and understanding of conscious dentals.
Sorry you have to put up with this, the fact they do not wish to even look into the procedure is heartbreaking. They reference the potential need for 4-10 weekly dentals but refuse to speak about the tole GA can/will take on such animals.
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I my opinion anyone who has been in the position of only being offered repeated GA dentals is a major problem both for the animal and financially and worth writing in too stating you cannot keep putting guinea pig with ongoing dental problems through GA dentals and all the problems that that causes. tagged Debbie,lets see what she thinks

@furryfriends (TEAS)
 
No personal experience, but I've wondered before whether this could be made into its own specialism within vetinary practice, with all the education and oversight that goes with it.

I've been here nearly two years and the abundance of anecdotal evidence for dentals performed badly (under GA), the success stories of C&R, and the volume of cries for help from other parts of the country... I lost my thought there, but it's clearly a huge issue within the community. Could this somehow be turned into a positive, leading to better access to better care and therefore better quality of life for piggies? I don't know what the answer is (and obviously a blanket ban makes it a moot point), but if we were going the petition route I wonder if anyone else thinks it's worth adding?
 
I wonder if a lot of the anti-conscious dental treatment feeling comes from the long-standing issue of non-vet college-trained 'rodentologists' doing conscious dentals and presumably not doing them well? So everyone who does conscious dental work gets tarred with the same brush. Yes it is something that should only be done by someone with proper vet training and regulation - like Simon and Kim - but as vet colleges hardly teach any guinea-specific stuff anyway, the chances of them adding something like that, so that others can learn how to do it safely, are pretty minimal ...
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
I wonder if a lot of the anti-conscious dental treatment feeling comes from the long-standing issue of non-vet college-trained 'rodentologists' doing conscious dentals and presumably not doing them well? So everyone who does conscious dental work gets tarred with the same brush. Yes it is something that should only be done by someone with proper vet training and regulation - like Simon and Kim - but as vet colleges hardly teach any guinea-specific stuff anyway, the chances of them adding something like that, so that others can learn how to do it safely, are pretty minimal ...
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I think the exotics are being totally shown up when it comes to dental surgery by Simon and Kim, soar grapes!
 
How are conscious dentals viewed in other countries (i.e. Germany/Switzerland)? If they've been approved in countries which have significantly better guinea pig vet care, then surely that's got to mean something?

If conscious dental were prohibited, it would make me seriously hesitate over adopting guinea pigs in the future. :(

I hope you can change the BVZS's position- it doesn't seem very well thought through at all...
As a side note, has there been much of a reaction from the chinchilla community?

To be brutally honest, I think the whole letter is pretty poorly written. Trancing and causing tonic immobility has nothing to do with conscious piggy dentals, right? And 'Repeated dental treatments are often needed, sometimes
as frequently as every 4-10 weeks for life... Regular repeated conscious dental treatments
have a high cumulative risk of causing poor welfare and harm to patients'? Erm, I think regular GA dentals have a higher risk of causing harm and poor welfare, particularly in terms of the lengthy recovery process? Hopefully this will be reflected in testimonials.
 
I shall definitely be writing a testimonial, Debbie, and I would be happy for the procedure to be video recorded for Louis, who goes in for a conscious dental to remove a spur every 4 weeks.

He is always happily eating as soon as he comes out. He would not be here with Simon and Kim's care, and I would have to face the prospect of euthanising an otherwise perfectly healthy pig, which goes against everything I hold dear.
 
Huge thanks to all those who have taken the time to submit testimonials, highlighting the successful treatment, by Simon and Kim, for their guinea pigs!

We need to fight this strong and hard and it’s important that we have as much evidence as possible, so please continue to submit testimonials and share this post far and wide!

If this goes ahead, the consequences will be devastating! 😢 😡
 
Is the Forum taking a stance with regard to this? or the Guinea Pig Magazine? Any rescues too

It seems to me that the very well organised “Rabbit Fraternity“ have pushed this, yet I don’t see any evidence of any Guinea Pig organisations actually fighting this.
 
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furryfriends (TEAS) said:
Huge thanks to all those who have taken the time to submit testimonials, highlighting the successful treatment, by Simon and Kim, for their guinea pigs!

We need to fight this strong and hard and it’s important that we have as much evidence as possible, so please continue to submit testimonials and share this post far and wide!

If this goes ahead, the consequences will be devastating! 😢 😡
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Is there any want/use of statements from people who have lost a pig due to inaccessibility of this procedure.
Although I understand fighting for it to be used/taught in more places is a much larger issue, the least we can do is stop them taking it away from the people who already offer this service and do life saving work.

(I posted a reply on page 2)
 
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