4th Match Failed= Devastated

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oxtinamona said:
@Sian25 , indeed it's very hard. Mine definitely started off far worse than your furry gorgeousness did... biscuit (princess) doesn't nip the boy though.. So although similar slightly different behaviours... Still after reading it and spending whole afternoon and evening in the kitchen watching them I feel pretty much ok now being in bed and not half as worried as I was past this week. The worst decision is always to take back the animal you had at home already and I fell horrible if we will be forced to do it should it all go downhill (fingers X it won't )
How are Effie and Milan doing now? X they're so lovely. Your boy is a solve agouti isn't he? Our new boy is lemon agouti. Love them -they look like combination of a wild bunny, doe, baby Joey and a koala- melts my heart.
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Aww lovely! Milan Is a silver agouti, yes! They are okay together now- I'm not saying it's a match made in heaven at this point but they get along for the majority of the time, but they like their own space to relax in. Milan still gets nipped pretty often, mainly when he tries to get into the same hidey as her! But their relationship has improved A LOT since she come home a month ago so I'm hoping things will settle down even more. They will happily eat together etc, it's mostly the hidies that cause the little disputes
 
Good morning all!

So a quick update. We have survived the night trial. There were no squabbles or fights as far as I am aware. I was tried and fell asleep pretty quick when I realised thee troublesome two have also settled. I'm sure I'd wake up if I heard any commotion as I'm a light sleeper, so looks like the first night for those two to be lovers was good:love:
We are extatic - hopefully didn't jinx it :eek:

We disinfected the cage yesterday with F10 and vinegar and water solution. I have ch aged a layout a bit as well.

Do you think we should move them there today at some point?
 
Good morning everyone!

Just a quick update. Out two troublesome have settled, well it looks like they did anyway.

We have moved them to their proper cage this morning and so far it looks ok. They seem pretty chilled although I couldn't tell who is the dominant one :no::eek:

Thank you all so much, I'm so grateful this forum exists and that everyone is so supportive and shares their expertise.

P.S. We named our new boy Mr. Presley.
So now we have:

Elvis & Ginger
Presley & Biscuit
:luv::luv::luv::luv::luv:
Once he is less skittish and settled in his new abode I'll upload some pictures x
 
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oxtinamona said:
Good morning everyone!

Just a quick update. Out two troublesome have settled, well it looks like they did anyway.

We have moved them to their proper cage this morning and so far it looks ok. They seem pretty chilled although I couldn't tell who is the dominant one :no::eek:

Thank you all so much, I'm so grateful this forum exists and that everyone is so supportive and shares their expertise.

P.S. We named our new boy Mr. Presley.
So now we have:

Elvis & Ginger
Presley & Biscuit
:luv::luv::luv::luv::luv:
Once he is less skittish and settled in his new abode I'll upload some pictures x
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Aww I'm glad they seem to be settling. Can't wait to see pictures! I feel the same about this forum and believe the advice and support is completely invaluable! Hope they continue to do well!
 
@Wiebke @pig in the city
Hi guys. Me again. I'm having a mini breakdown. We woke up this morning to find 3 lumps of Bisuits hair in the bottom cage level. So looks like they must have fought over night without us hearing it!
There was some teeth chattering this morning as well and yawning, showing her teeth. My partner just saw her chasing the boy back to the corner.

It suddenly reminds me the behaviours we saw when other pig was bullying Biscuit

I'm really shocked as they were appearing so settled past few days :no:

I really don't know what to do anymore, but I'm on the edge of mental breakdown. Why are they doing this? I though they settled ?
 
oxtinamona said:
@Wiebke @pig in the city
Hi guys. Me again. I'm having a mini breakdown. We woke up this morning to find 3 lumps of Bisuits hair in the bottom cage level. So looks like they must have fought over night without us hearing it!
There was some teeth chattering this morning as well and yawning, showing her teeth. My partner just saw her chasing the boy back to the corner.

It suddenly reminds me the behaviours we saw when other pig was bullying Biscuit

I'm really shocked as they were appearing so settled past few days :no:

I really don't know what to do anymore, but I'm on the edge of mental breakdown. Why are they doing this? I though they settled ?
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Hi, sorry to hear this, but don't despair. Just give piggies a good check over for bites. If all ok then move back to the neutral territory and keep them there for quite a bit longer, l would say at least a week to make sure they have sorted things out. I am sure they will be ok, just a bit too soon for them to go back in the cage. It might even be worth investing in a new cage?
 
:lol!:@pig in the city, oh no, we moved them too soon? I though a week would be enough :soz:
we definitely can't afford new cage, we already spend over £100 OK C&C and expanding and extra correx...Sadly that's not an option - their current cage is really big and to replace it, we just can't afford it anymore sadly. It was all thoroughly disinfected too. Not sure why is she like that anymore.
Shall I put them back in the neutral play pen zone?
P.S. I checked them both no bites or cuts whatsoever on neither of them (luckily)

I don't think I can do this anymore. It's been an exhausting week. Plus previous bonding sessions in May when she rejected other 3 piggies...it's got to the point that I'm sitting at work and cannot focus (and I have to be focused at my job) and just worrying and feeling nauseated due to worrying :(

I just don't know what else can I do ? It's not affecting our lives - it all revolved around her and her new potential friend for past 2 weeks... We read and read every single Guide on bonding we could find, every single relevant video... Spent whole weekend locked at home to keep an eye on them and we still failed...
Just don't know what to do anymore:soz::td:
 
Hi i can't give any advice on bonding - it sounds like you're doing everything right so don't be hard on yourself by saying 'we' failed.
i know you'll have cut your correx to fit the layout you have but remember that c &c is very versatile and just by playing about with the panels, the pigs will think it's a new cage!

we often just change the beds about or turn the tunnels round and our pigs go round investigating as if it's all brand new!

You sound at the end of your tether with this. remember there is a solution to every problem. you will find the answer to it :hug:
meanwhile, hope a virtual hug sends a little comfort
 
@tabelmabel

We have changed the layout in terms of everything that was inside ... It's all different...I even made new cozies and pee pads etc..
We can't change the cage shape as sadly we live in the flat, and we have also 2 other pigs who live in the cage below and they way it's set up, is the only way we can fit both cages in the living room , which they've taken over anyways... :)

We initially planned having 2 pigs only. When they fell out we had no heart to get rid of one or have them alone in separate cages, so we went for a hunt for hus-boars. We succeeded with one and they are just lovely and bonded and happy together, clearly with these two it won't be the same.

Yes I am very much exhausted and devastated by it and also angry, as to why it doesn't work. Why did it have to happen to us? I am not very good with things like this when they persist I'm get really anxious and worry all the time. After all I wanted to give them all best life we can and it's just not working out. I worry I am causing them stress and further damage so they will
Never bond again? It's so bad I just keep crying all the time.

Biscuit was bullied by her previous companion but it hasn't been going on for long... We acted pretty quick, I think max 4 weeks from noticing the out of norm behaviours... Yes it probably went on a bit longer in more subtle way, before we spotted the signs, but does it mean she could be psychologically permanently damaged due to that ? :(

Unless we swap the couples and get the happy guys on the top and grumpiest to the bottom cage? Would this work ?
 
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I'm afraid i don't know. I wish i could offer some proper help but I'm not at all experienced in piggy bonding. Hopefully one of the forum experts will be along soon with some actual proper advice!
 
Just give yourself and your piggies time to settle down. It is not your fault; just bad luck. A failed bond can really gut and upset you.

There are some very difficult personalities out there, especially when come with baggage you really don't know. It can be that at a later time and in a setting/with a partner of her choice, both your girls will find their own happiness, but right now is not the time to force a bond where there isn't one. It is a lesson I have learned the hard way myself. Piggies are every bit as complicated as people and very much have their own personalities.
 
hi, thank you for replying. So to double check, shall I just call it a day and return the boy to the rescue and not force it anymore ?


Wiebke said:
Just give yourself and your piggies time to settle down. It is not your fault; just bad luck. A failed bond can really gut and upset you.

There are some very difficult personalities out there, especially when come with baggage you really don't know. It can be that at a later time and in a setting/with a partner of her choice, both your girls will find their own happiness, but right now is not the time to force a bond where there isn't one. It is a lesson I have learned the hard way myself. Piggies are every bit as complicated as people and very much have their own personalities.
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ld
 
@Wiebke hi, sorry just need to double check if I understand it correctly and there's no confusion to our couple's situation....I know you must be getting hundreds of histerical messages like mine so probably easy to get mixed up... You said about my girls getting happy bond eventually but not this one, but it's a boar and sow I'm mixing now... Well trying. So I wanted to ensure that I get it right and that we should just stop the bonding and call it a day ? x
I've uploaded some videos on YouTube - I hope you'll be able to see them:
 
Here few more recorded tonight. apologies for my other piggies making satanic noises - they've heard me preparing their dinner in the kitchen :)

What worries me is when she kind of rounds him in the corner and then gets in his face with her nose when he's already there. She will also lay down, all stretched right near the litter tray and what I thought yesterday was cute I now wonder if she's guarding the tray with the boy in it? I also noticed he doesn't stand up to her anymore?

That's a new behaviour and I haven't seen her do that ... Sadly that looks familiar and reminds me what other sow used to do to her when Biscuit was bullied ...
Is this bullying ?is this really it? I don't know what to do, as I don't know what's best to do. I don't want him to suffer or her to turn nasty like other piggie was when they lived together (she's a delight now with her boar
By the way). I feel like I've made so many mistakes I'm scared to make any decision whatsoever now :(
 
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They image.webp image.webp they made it to the upper level,
Where I removed all the hideys and trays now. Just empty space. I found them like this, which makes it even harder as she had no reason to lay down and round him in the corner as there's nothing there:
 
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It sounds to me as if @Wiebke is saying this bonding has failed at this point in time. I can feel your desperation and distress in your posts. You're just waiting for someone to take you through what you need to do step by step really aren't you. Very understandable. I would also be out of my depth with this.

the only use i can be is to bump your thread. hopefully wiebke will have time to help lift some of your load soon Xx
 
I really am @tabelmabel because they have such contradicting behaviours that the minute they do something which is normally sign of a failed bonding, I think well ok then, can't force it. Then two minutes later they'll be cleaning themselves next to each other and other things which again make me think like earlier decision wasn't correct and I'm overreacting. It's driving is insane.
We just cannot tell. I can't believe that our first two piggies fallen out and we ended up with four and now second couple's bonding isn't working out, again. So she rejected 4 piggies now... Whereas there's still hope I've no idea. Hence I uploaded some videos because I just don't know...
 
Well hopefully someone who knows their stuff will be along before it's your bedtime - I'm forecasting a sleepless night for you otherwise!

Can someone from the rescue come to your house to assess the situation? I bet you'd pay good money to have @Wiebke in your house to oversee this bonding and settle your nerves!

I will have a look at your films in a mo. Just watching 999 what's your emergency first!
 
I'd love to have Wiebke or @pig in the city here! It's the worst thing to be biased with things like this as your brain doesn't think straight.

I doubt anyone from the rescue could come over. They are extremely short staffed :(
Plus I don't think they'd know what to do, the lady who looks after pigs said she's never had a failed match :yikes::mal:
Must be my crap luck.

At present time we went with latest advice pigs in the city gave us in the morning-we moved them back to the play pen. She doesn't seem so confident now- which makes me believe that clever minx felt more confident in her old cage as she recognised it ...

Hopefully someone will be able to have an objective look at these videos and assess the situation to tell if there's still a chance x
Enjoy the 999 WYE X


tabelmabel said:
Well hopefully someone who knows their stuff will be along before it's your bedtime - I'm forecasting a sleepless night for you otherwise!

Can someone from the rescue come to your house to assess the situation? I bet you'd pay good money to have @Wiebke in your house to oversee this bonding and settle your nerves!

I will have a look at your films in a mo. Just watching 999 what's your emergency first!
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VickiA said:
Just to let you know that Wiebke has been dealing with an emergency of her own with her boy Hywel,so that's probably why she's not been on much.
I'll take a look at your vids and let you know what I think...
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Oh no, I hope her boy is ok:(
Poor pigaroo x
 
Ok. Here's my view after watching your vids. It hasn't totally failed in that there is no overt aggression and no full blown fighting. She is very dominant and he is by and large accepting his position. Neither appears to me to be very unhappy although neither looks particularly happy or relaxed (although there were a few popcorns in the first vid). He backs off and steers clear but she's still very wary of him. What are things like at meal time? Does she let him eat?
 
@VickiA thank you for checking them out.
She does let him eat fine. Quite frankly when we saw her fur clumps on the cage floor this morning I was shocked.

They were getting on really really well inside the play pen on Friday+overnight, whole Saturday, sat night and Sunday morning + we did bonding sessions over the whole week as well after work. They did popcorn crazy when still in the pen on Saturday. And zoomed a bit too. They were eating from the same pile and were both ok with it. What I've noticed today is that his confidence drooped a lot. In the pen on neutral ground we were pretty sure he will dominate as she let him mount her few times , they both popcorned and cleaned themselves next to each to other.

He also used to stand up to her and lift his chin up, chatter his teeth and she'd run away and then one of them or both would popcorn a but. He never was scared of her and we loved that. I don't think he is scared of her now, but He's not doing it anymore which I was sad to see. As mentioned earlier I don't think she should be the dominant piggy as I feel she may turn into a bully and would want that lovely boy suffer as then he may do the same to other pig and that's just a vicious circle.

She definitely wasn't as weary of him in the play pen. He could walk past her and she would still lay down , stretch with legs and not move...

Not sure why it's changed so much and my only guess is she just feels confident in that cage although he is extremely clever and picked up on using the ramp in less than a day...I'm a bit worried whether to pursue because I can see some of her bahviours are a bit like other pig that used to bully her. I don't think she should Be a dominant pig as I fear it may give her the grant to bullying. I'm not sure how such chilled and relaxed piggy turn quite mean so quickly :td:

Have you seen last two pictures I uploaded? she is laying down with her legs spread out - I assumed that they do that when they are relaxed, is it not the case ?

P.S. We have another Guinea pig couple in cage below which has a different layout, no loft just one level and 2 grids smaller 5x2 so still more than min 4x2. Since something tells me she still thinks that cage is her 'old teritory ' should we just swap cages ?
X
 
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With new bondings I regularly change my cage layout and also the contents. I move everything around regularly even the hay from one end to the other. It makes it more interesting for them and also prevents anyone claiming any part of it as theirs. Did you wash all the grids, connectors etc to remove her scent from everything before they went back in?
A 5 X 2 would give more floor space and more scope to move things round, so I would be tempted to try it. You have nothing to lose.
 
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