Stone me! George's secret...

piggieminder said:
I've had 2 boars have stone surgery, younger (2 & 4) but they have bounced back quickly after gas sedation. Bracken was eating a few hours afterwards and acting as if nothing had happened.
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Thanks for that. Losing poor Panda after his stone op made me really wary about the whole thing, then losing Zara too over such a short op... only 20 mins end to end. I don't know what Panda had in terms of anaesthetic though. When we had Casper neutered he was just like Bracken - like nothing had happened. He was really cheerful! But my gentle boy is so old and has actually had a brilliant 4 days of hardly any squeakage (just to make me doubt myself!) But he's louder again this evening. They'll x-ray before they go in just to make sure it's still there (and it's not as big as a melon) so we're just trying to be brave. And eat kale - because he loves it and what the heck.
 
I'll be thinking of you on Thursday. I can understand your worry. It's never easy when they need surgery.
 
I’ll be thinking of you both tomorrow, I hope everything goes really well x
 
Well George survived the op and we're now back home. He's had quite a lot of opioid (buprenorphine I think) so he's really zoned out but it should be wearing off this evening. I sent him in with a veggie packed lunch and a full syringe of CC. He apparently took 10ml+ before he came home so he's doing OK. He also produced about 10 poops which one of the nurses snaffled for another guinea pig. George would be pleased that he has been helpful. He's had a few bits of veggie since, and a few sips of water, but only when I stuck things right under his nose - basically he's sitting very still in his snuggle sack in a cage full of fleeces. I can see the sack moving up and down regularly so I'm assuming he's asleep. The girls are obvs very keen to get in and raid him so I'm sitting guard until they realise they're going to have to sleep in the other cage tonight.
X-ray showed kidneys were clear and he just had the one large stone - 1cm across and completely spherical. It rolls hypnotically round the sample jar like a ball bearing. Photos later - it's been quite the day and we're not quite done yet. Thanks so much for all your support x
 
Aw been thinking about you both, so glad everything went well. Hope George now makes a speedy sound recovery x
 
I'm so pleased to hear George is home. I've been thinking of you both. I hope he makes a quick recovery and no more nasty stones.
 
So relieved to hear that George is back home. I hope he has a comfortable night.
 
I’m pleased George is home. Sending lots of healing vibes his way. ❤️
 
George is better than he was last night (because he was totally out of his gourd) but he's still not eating. He had the bupre at 2pm and I called the nurse at 9 to find out when it might wear off as I'd been told by about 7. Turns out they gave him a double dose and it was going to hang around until 10 or 11 at least. From about 10:30 he responded by moving slightly in his bag if I came and spoke to him. He got more syringe food, some emeprid and some veggie bits at 11:30. More veggie bits pushed into the bag at 4am - didn't want CC then - but didn't seem any worse. He'd peed - no poop.

He didn't squeak for morning veg and didn't come out the bag so I had to oblige him into 6ml of recovery to cushion the blow of his meds and then he seemed to pick up a bit and went in for veggies and a bit of yesterday's scraggly grass leftovers. There was some grimacing but it turned out to be an impressive backlog of poop so the wheels are grinding slowly it seems. Clean wound. He doesn't smell - when I've had poorly ones before there's often been a worrying smell. He smells like normal. He's in a clean snuggle tunnel now with a heat pad and a pile of untouched fresh grass - I'm just about to give him lunch. He turns around occasionally to change position which is more than he did yesterday. He's warm to the touch, but not too warm.

Once on your knee he pounces on carrot, pepper, apple or chard if you slide it under his nose but ignores most everything else. He's still very 'distant' so I'm not relaxing yet. He's unnervingly silent - but on the plus side no squeaky wees. And he'll take a very little water from the syringe but he's not guzzling it down like before. Vet says her old boy with a stone is drinking so much water she's worried he's got something else too, so looks like suddenly drinking more might be a sign of stone formation/presence. Maybe they try to keep a full bladder to stop the stone banging into the walls... maybe that's why it was so round.

Anyway, he'll get his first post-op check on Saturday with the lovely vet that did the op, and I'm not back to work till Monday, so we've got a bit of time yet...
 
Fingers crossed George does well now, no more nasty stones. Nugget had a Buprecare injection on Wednesday for bloat pain it was a good 24hrs before he stopped being distant from that. Syringe feeding was easy then, this morning he's fighting me again!
 
Are so good that George is doing well, it’s a big op for a little man, I hope he continues to recover well x
 
He's picking up ☺️
He had his usual high tea of CC and side salad. Took 10ml which I was happy with as don't want to bust his stitches. Ate veg until he was full. Dark leaves are again on ration which he's a bit hacked off about. Back in cage - a completely uneventful wee and back into the tunnel. What a change!

Put a second hidey in - carrot cottage with a white fluff underneath (good to spot colour of wees). At 9, suddenly realised he was sitting in that for a change! Then he came out and had 10 minutes on the wilty grass without any drama, took a guzzle from his water bottle and retired again. Maybe we'll all sleep tonight...

Check up at 2 tomorrow. Maybe a photo if he's feeling up to it. That Bupre is scary stuff. I got the distinct impression that George was in a very dark place. But it must be a very good pain reliever. When I had my hernia patched I only got paracetamol and ibuprofen!
 
Aw, that all sounds really good, it takes a while for all the drugs to flush out if their system, hope it goes well tomorrow. Hope you sleep easy tonight 🤞
 
George passed his 2 day check up with flying colours. There are a couple of scuffed patches on his dark skin where he might have nibbled at himself but not round the wound itself. Vet said no worries and they were very superficial. Old George's barbered tummy is actually covered with wrinkles and lumps but she said, "Nothing to worry about - that's just him!" I wonder whether the fur will grow back... He gets a final check in a week and will be on Baytril till then I think. Vet said it's a wise precaution to put on AB after stone removal as generally there are more bacteria in the bladder... presumably clinging to the stone. It makes sense. But his appetite is OK on that so far.
He squeaked for veg this morning and is also eating pellets and nibbling at hay. Toileting well. He unusually chattered teeth in his tunnel when I brought grass in so either he couldn't wait or was a bit stressed because he knew he couldn't get out to the usual dumping ground. He was happy to poke his head out the tunnel to eat it though. I caught him briefly dozing with feet out but he was too quick for the camera. He doesn't get back in with the girls for another week which means Louise has to put up with Flora occasionally ousting her from cage 2 and making her sleep on the mat. There's a carrot cottage and a haycube there, but Louise will actually just flop down in the open at the minute because her hair is so long over her eyes she thinks she's hidden. She looks like one of those bear-skin rugs! She can have her trim when we're back to normal.
I saw the x-ray that they do before the op and the stone looked enormous compared to October. Vet said once a stone has formed it can grow like a snowball so maybe that's what happened. Will post when I get a copy. So we're through the storm, although we'll be sailing with a weather eye on the horizon. And George is just enjoying his 'happy today' ☺️
 
BTW I posted a standard 'smiling face' at the end of that post but I'm seeing a tiny B&W 'sad face' - it should be smiley! What can you see?
Trying again: ☺️ ☺️ ☺️

No it's just the same! Well we're smiling here whatever the emoji says...
 
Aw, that’s really good news about George, what a fella! 😄 He has done so well. I hope next week he gets a clean bill of health after his check up. Well done you too, it wasn’t an easy decision to make at his age x

I’m seeing a smiley face too 😊
 
Morning grass with the girls, he's recovering well...
George recovering well.webp
There are bars to keep him in and them out - everyone seems to understand, strangely enough. If he gets the all-clear on Saturday we'll try re-bonding in the dining room. I suspect Louise will be quite relieved as Flora's pushed her around no end! George is sleeping in the snuggle tunnel with feet-out every night. If he passed unexpectedly tomorrow from something else I'd still think we'd done the right thing. He's been more comfortable this week than he has been for months 💕
 
Aw, this is great news about George, it’s lovely to hear he is so comfortable now and laying out relaxing like that.
Well done George and we’ll done you too 😊
 
And of course it couldn't last... but he's still pretty OK. One week after his op we heard a few chirps and he started guzzling water again. Then white crustiness appeared around his penis. Monitored for 24 hours - went back to vet. She carefully eased a few crusty white pointy things out of the end of his todger. They could be crumbled with the fingers but felt gritty. On point of doing another x-ray when the machine blew a gasket. Maybe next time. We think at this stage its definitely solid calcium in the form of gritty bits, possibly sludge. Hopefully not the start of another stone yet - hopefully. He did have a sliver of chard in the week, a sliver of greens another day, a sliver of broccoli too. But in truth I can't see how that has tipped the balance. All this happened when he was still on Baytril so we took a deep breath and stopped it... and he didn't get any worse. So we don't think infection - at least not the usual type that grows and grows without the pressure of ABs. He's actually fine most of the time. Very active now he's back with the ladies. Eating well - weight had increased to 955g so he'd put on 40g in the week all by himself clever boy. And I don't want to mess that up. But I suspect that he's trying to pee out some 'solids' and it's hurting him. With the stone he chirped pitifully as he peed. This time he doesn't usually but you do see him squint a bit sometimes. I'm unbunging thrice a day to try and stop any pressure on the urethra.

So, here's the thing. His pee is milky - not unusual in a piggy - but it's really alkaline. Piggy urine as far as I can gather should be about pH 8... maybe a bit above. We're 5 or 6 but we eat meat and stuff. After stalking Flora until she produced I was able to test my new pH strips and indeed she was pH8 (and really confused about what I was doing!) There is also a pH 8.5 and pH9 colour code on these urine test strips. George was immediately off the scale so his pee is minimum pH9. Louise is impossible to test as she's currently too hairy. Will be getting more pH strips for 9+ range but something is telling me that George's pee is precipitating out these solids whereas Flora's isn't. Now maybe it's an unfortunate metabolic side effect of being an old piggy but we can't do much about that. I'm going to look into trying to acidify his urine a little. This might not be possible as the body is generally really good at reacting to changes in conditions and keeping itself the same - homeostasis for anyone who can remember their biology! @PigglePuggle I wonder if you have any bits of info I can look into?

Oh, and finally got the x-rays through. You can see how the stone grew between October and Jan if you compare with a spinal vertebra. These are 3 months apart. Dang, it's a whopper. He's a brave boy x

George's stone.jpg George Stone pre-op 2.jpg
 
Free Ranger said:
And of course it couldn't last... but he's still pretty OK. One week after his op we heard a few chirps and he started guzzling water again. Then white crustiness appeared around his penis. Monitored for 24 hours - went back to vet. She carefully eased a few crusty white pointy things out of the end of his todger. They could be crumbled with the fingers but felt gritty. On point of doing another x-ray when the machine blew a gasket. Maybe next time. We think at this stage its definitely solid calcium in the form of gritty bits, possibly sludge. Hopefully not the start of another stone yet - hopefully. He did have a sliver of chard in the week, a sliver of greens another day, a sliver of broccoli too. But in truth I can't see how that has tipped the balance. All this happened when he was still on Baytril so we took a deep breath and stopped it... and he didn't get any worse. So we don't think infection - at least not the usual type that grows and grows without the pressure of ABs. He's actually fine most of the time. Very active now he's back with the ladies. Eating well - weight had increased to 955g so he'd put on 40g in the week all by himself clever boy. And I don't want to mess that up. But I suspect that he's trying to pee out some 'solids' and it's hurting him. With the stone he chirped pitifully as he peed. This time he doesn't usually but you do see him squint a bit sometimes. I'm unbunging thrice a day to try and stop any pressure on the urethra.

So, here's the thing. His pee is milky - not unusual in a piggy - but it's really alkaline. Piggy urine as far as I can gather should be about pH 8... maybe a bit above. We're 5 or 6 but we eat meat and stuff. After stalking Flora until she produced I was able to test my new pH strips and indeed she was pH8 (and really confused about what I was doing!) There is also a pH 8.5 and pH9 colour code on these urine test strips. George was immediately off the scale so his pee is minimum pH9. Louise is impossible to test as she's currently too hairy. Will be getting more pH strips for 9+ range but something is telling me that George's pee is precipitating out these solids whereas Flora's isn't. Now maybe it's an unfortunate metabolic side effect of being an old piggy but we can't do much about that. I'm going to look into trying to acidify his urine a little. This might not be possible as the body is generally really good at reacting to changes in conditions and keeping itself the same - homeostasis for anyone who can remember their biology! @PigglePuggle I wonder if you have any bits of info I can look into?

Oh, and finally got the x-rays through. You can see how the stone grew between October and Jan if you compare with a spinal vertebra. These are 3 months apart. Dang, it's a whopper. He's a brave boy x

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Wow that is some stone! Poor George! Sending lots of healing vibes 💓

Not sure if my thoughts are of use really, but... when I had a piggy with a bladder stone, some people suggested giving him a liquid supplement containing cranberry juice. I know humans sometimes do that but whether it would be effective to break up gritty bits in piggy bladders I don't know. Also, are you giving him Cystease or similar at all? Perhaps helping to reline the bladder walls might help grit pass through quicker and not form clumps that hang around and cause pain...
 
Poor George what a brave boy he has been. let’s hope it’s just his bladder flushing out a bit of leftover sludge and nothing else. He has made such a remarkable recovery with all your care 🤞
 
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