Spike - no diagnosis - difficult decisions

piggieminder

piggieminder

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Sorry I have a feeling this is going to be a long one.
On the 12th July Spike's breathing sounded a bit wheezy for a few minutes but it was faint and went off. Peanut had a post op vet visit on the 13th so the vet listened to Spike's chest etc and said he sounded clear. Since then Spike has had on and off noisy breathing everyday. He's been to the vet 5 times, 2 practises and 4 vets. All say his chest is clear and his heart is fine, only one vet has detected a slight noise in the upper respitory tract, he doesn't make the noise at the vets it's very intermittent. Spike's been nebulised with F10 for a month, had 2 weeks of Septrin. We then had a week off all treatment to see what would happen, no change. This week he's on Baytril and back to nebulising.
I've had a feeling for several weeks that this is not a URI, there's been no discharge at all. Spike's not lost weight, the noise isn't bothering him. Saturday's vet says her next step would be to refer him to another practise for a scan as she doesn't think xray will show anything (they don't have a scanner). A scan may or may not show anything, if it shows a pollop or tumour there's not much we can do. 2 years ago my vet fund stood at £10,000, it was emptied last year and a lot more added, it's so scary I stopped counting. A scan is £800 and may not show anything (I've been here before!).
I've made the decision to continue this week with nebulising and the Baytril. If he's no better next week I will leave him and see how he goes. Any weight loss or sign of distress he will be straight back to the vets. We are registered at the ones who have the scanner so I will book him in there. Spike is 5 years old and very precious to me, I don't want his last years, months, weeks or days (however long we've got) to be full of vet visits on wild goose chases, being handled and medicated when it doesn't work, he hates it and is chattering his teeth at me when I approach the cage now. He's still acting like the old Spike, doesn't appear to be in pain or bothered by his breathing.
Thanks to anyone who has managed to stay with me, you can imagine as piggie lovers yourselves how hard this is, we've hardly had a week without a sick piggy for the last year. Any support or ideas are welcomed, please be kind in criticism I'm feeling very sad and tearful at the moment, doubting my own ability to care for these small furries and make any kind of decision.
 
Aww I really feel for you, I don't have any constructive advice I can give sorry but just wanted to send you and Spike a big hug 😘 Sounds like you are doing above and beyond in your care for your piggies so don't doubt your own abilities we all hit a blip sometimes and wonder if theres more we could be doing or are we making the right decisions but anyone one can see how much you love your piggies with what you have already done with them so don't beat yourself up about it.💗
 
Just sending my best wishes for Spike (and you). I think this weather has a lot to answer for with the extreme heat that has been with us on and off since July.
 
piggieminder said:
Sorry I have a feeling this is going to be a long one.
On the 12th July Spike's breathing sounded a bit wheezy for a few minutes but it was faint and went off. Peanut had a post op vet visit on the 13th so the vet listened to Spike's chest etc and said he sounded clear. Since then Spike has had on and off noisy breathing everyday. He's been to the vet 5 times, 2 practises and 4 vets. All say his chest is clear and his heart is fine, only one vet has detected a slight noise in the upper respitory tract, he doesn't make the noise at the vets it's very intermittent. Spike's been nebulised with F10 for a month, had 2 weeks of Septrin. We then had a week off all treatment to see what would happen, no change. This week he's on Baytril and back to nebulising.
I've had a feeling for several weeks that this is not a URI, there's been no discharge at all. Spike's not lost weight, the noise isn't bothering him. Saturday's vet says her next step would be to refer him to another practise for a scan as she doesn't think xray will show anything (they don't have a scanner). A scan may or may not show anything, if it shows a pollop or tumour there's not much we can do. 2 years ago my vet fund stood at £10,000, it was emptied last year and a lot more added, it's so scary I stopped counting. A scan is £800 and may not show anything (I've been here before!).
I've made the decision to continue this week with nebulising and the Baytril. If he's no better next week I will leave him and see how he goes. Any weight loss or sign of distress he will be straight back to the vets. We are registered at the ones who have the scanner so I will book him in there. Spike is 5 years old and very precious to me, I don't want his last years, months, weeks or days (however long we've got) to be full of vet visits on wild goose chases, being handled and medicated when it doesn't work, he hates it and is chattering his teeth at me when I approach the cage now. He's still acting like the old Spike, doesn't appear to be in pain or bothered by his breathing.
Thanks to anyone who has managed to stay with me, you can imagine as piggie lovers yourselves how hard this is, we've hardly had a week without a sick piggy for the last year. Any support or ideas are welcomed, please be kind in criticism I'm feeling very sad and tearful at the moment, doubting my own ability to care for these small furries and make any kind of decision.
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Just read through your post. And it reminds me of my old boar pip, who I had from age 2 to age 6. He had a stuffy noise breathing problem all of his life, no weight loss, no upset appetite, no pain. It turned out to be permanent damage to something in his nasal area, to do with someone treating a uri too late, whoever had him before me. Lived fine like it. Baytril used to clear it up but it would just come right back again. Pips symptoms were...

Crusty left eye fur
Raspy breathing constantly.
Sneezing alot.

I also made about 5 vet trips to try and cure it. No joy. He ended up passing away from something completely unrelated. Until then he lived a very happy 4 years with me.

I think chronic rhinitis mite be worth having a little Google on.
 
Oh @piggieminder I do really feel for you and for Spike. I'm so glad you've posted here ❤

I get the sense that you've been trying desperately to work out what's wrong and given so many resources (on many levels) along the way that you are exhausted and utterly drained. I totally understand the feeling of being inadequate but I cannot for a moment believe that you are in reality. I suspect the feeling comes from what you have been going through and all the uncertainty!

It is such a difficult balance between treatment / possible extension of life and the quality of that life. I can well understand that if Spike is teeth chattering when you approach, that would be utterly heart breaking and raises the question of whether treatment is the right thing. In a way I think I was lucky with Sparkle because the situation reached a point where it was clear he was dying with no hope of recovery and therefore the kindest thing to do was to put him to sleep. You are not there, and you are following the advice you gave me:

piggieminder said:
no decision is the wrong decision when it's made with love
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Big hugs x
 
My little boar Caspy is like your Pip, he had a persiatant URI before he came to me @SkyPipDotBernie Spike's problem is a bit different and recentlyand suddenly started at the age of 5. Spike has had no nasal discharge, no eye discharge and no sneezing. I will google later when I have more time, I'm just popping in and out to the computer today while I do gardening and cleaning. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
❤

Thanks @Whortleberry writing things down has helped get things clear in my head. With so many illnessess recently, each one leading into another it's sometimes hard to see the wood for the trees! I don't want Spike to suffer, at the moment I don't think he is, right now he's pootling round the cage making those peepy weebly noises they make, hunting down the best bit of hay.
 
Sounds a bit like my permanent foster piggy Angel who has the noisiest breathing and a cough like you’ve never heard before. When she was first surrendered to Helen she had a next day appointment with suspected pneumonia only for the vet to tell Helen she’s got perfectly clear lungs and airways. Since she came to me I also got rattled and she’s had further vets visits only to be told there is nothing to treat. It’s likely some scarring from a previous infection. So she just has a F10 nebuliser session most days. She’s fine for her but I do have to make sure she’s eating, maintaining weight etc and am paranoid in case I miss a deterioration. I think sometimes it becomes constitutional for that piggy. So unless he’s otherwise unwell I wouldn’t worry too much.
 
Breathing issues without an acute URI or pneumonia are not at all uncommon. Piggy airways are so small and iffy! :(

Concentrate on support care but try not to waste a fortune on scans and tests that won't likely give you any answers. I always question my vet; if the success ratio is not decidedly in my favour, then I leave it be and rather spend that money where it will really help another piggy.

Finding that balance between further large expenses with no great return and just concentrating on maintenance care in a piggy with chronic issues is tough; going through a protracted battle is so draining.
Of course you question yourself, your motives, your financial resources (which legitimately come into play after you have covered all the normal bases) and your level of home care.

Re-setting your personal limits and working out the ethics of them is not easy; but it is something that every long term owner has to do sooner or later - especially in view of quickly rising exotics vet fees and the fact that they are laid out for fully insured larger pets, not guinea pigs.
Setting limits doesn't make you a bad owner; it is both a protection for yourself and any current and future piggies. You are always free to review anew with each new piggy; but it is hopefully easier to make any decisions then because you do not have to work through the whole caboodle from scratch all over again!

See every day he has quality of life as a precious gift - long may it last! ;)

HUGS
 
Aw, sending you and Spike big hugs. No one could have done more to find out what’s Spike problem is. If Spike is happy in himself and eating well then try not to worry too much. Take each day as it comes, these piggies are such a worry, we all want to do the best for them. I think sometimes vets don’t have all the answers and you can go round and round in a very draining circle financially and emotionally. If he is happy leave him be and see what happens x
 
Hi, I came over from the thread you replied on about my piggy Peanut, it’s almost scary how similar your story is to mine! Seems like we both have a piggy that likes to worry us, I wish I’d have joined this forum sooner tbh as for the past year or so I’ve been feeling a bit helpless with Peanuts situation, the amount of vet visits I’ve been to just to be told there’s nothing wrong with him and look at me like I’m a looney! Just wish he wasn’t having such a big flare up right before I have to leave him. I hope Spike starts to sound better soon, I feel like all the stress of the medication sometimes makes things worse as Peanut’s breathing would normally be back to normal by now but it doesn’t seem to be budging this time.

Also on another little weird note my other gp Pumpkin was almost named Spike so we both would have had a Spike and a Peanut!
 
Spike had his last dose of Baytril this morning and there is no change. I have decided to monitor him and see how he goes on for now. I will probably weigh him twice a week rather than everyday as I feel we both need a break from the daily stress. I want to get him back to as near as normal as I can now. I can review this decision at any time if I feel he's getting worse.
 
I think that sounds like a good plan, you can always change it at any time you feel necessary, wishing Spike lots of healing vibes and big hugs to you, I can imagine how hard it’s been for you x
 
After Bracken being PTS in January, Peanut's post op care going horribly wrong whilst Spike's making funny breathing noises I think we are all feeling the pressure to be honest. Every now and again I get the feeling I'm letting Spike down but as long as he seems happy I can live with it. I'm hoping to get to my daughter's next week to do some more of her painting, just keeping my fingers crossed piggies all stay healthy for a while. OH will be here to look after them and I can get back within 2 hours on the train if I have to, or he can come and get me.
 
You've had a really rough old time of things @piggieminder and are balancing all sorts of things to reach the best decision(s) you can make with the information you have available at the time. Sometimes an / the answer isn't there to be found and it is very clear that you are trying to offer Spike a happy life. You deserve kindness and compassion :love:
 
I am sorry to hear about Spike :( I have no advise but my Elizabeth has on and off noisy breathing that sounds like a hoot. She was like this before I adopted her and I was aware of it before I adopted her.

She was on baytril as a precaution from a previous vet but it did nothing. She's also been checked by a very cavy savvy vet before she came to me and my own vet has also had a listen to her chest and her heart and lungs have been declared clear by all 3 vets.

It could be scarring from an untreated uri or a problem with her nasel passage but as she has no other symptoms and I was reassured from the lovely rescue, I am leaving her well alone to enjoy her life with her new friends x
 
Thanks @Claire W my Caspy is like that to. He had a URI at a few weeks old, he was treated but he didn't respond well and his airways were damaged. This all happened before he came to me, he does the hooting and then a cough and then carries on as if nothing happened.
Spike's noise is different but I think it bothers us more than it does him. As there's been no nasal discharge and it's not responded to 2 different antibiotics the vets don't think it's an infection. My biggest fear was that it was an infection which if we didn't get on top of it would go to his lungs but 4 vets have said the lungs and heart are clear (all see a lot of guinea pigs) so I think it's time to give him a rest from all the trips to the vet, at least for now.
 
Just caught up with this thread properly, poor Spike and poor you!
I have absolutely no experience of this in piggies but my mother has chronic lung disease and maybe its a case of just accepting things for what they are and making sure Spike still has more good days than bad days? I don't know if a hooman example is relevant at all but my mother was given 12 weeks to live last December because of scarring on her lungs but she's still with us and still having good days, some bad days where its all nebulisers and inhalers, but still enough good days to balance things out!
If Spike isn't suffering or deteriorating and the vets can't find anything definite to treat then you've done all you can for him for now, if he is still enjoying life then
 
PigglePuggle said:
Just caught up with this thread properly, poor Spike and poor you!
I have absolutely no experience of this in piggies but my mother has chronic lung disease and maybe its a case of just accepting things for what they are and making sure Spike still has more good days than bad days? I don't know if a hooman example is relevant at all but my mother was given 12 weeks to live last December because of scarring on her lungs but she's still with us and still having good days, some bad days where its all nebulisers and inhalers, but still enough good days to balance things out!
If Spike isn't suffering or deteriorating and the vets can't find anything definite to treat then you've done all you can for him for now, if he is still enjoying life then
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Oops internet blip!
I meant to say, if he's still enjoying life then I hope you can stop worrying so much and enjoy it with him. Hugs and healing wheeks! X
 
Claire W said:
I am sorry to hear about Spike :( I have no advise but my Elizabeth has on and off noisy breathing that sounds like a hoot. She was like this before I adopted her and I was aware of it before I adopted her.

She was on baytril as a precaution from a previous vet but it did nothing. She's also been checked by a very cavy savvy vet before she came to me and my own vet has also had a listen to her chest and her heart and lungs have been declared clear by all 3 vets.

It could be scarring from an untreated uri or a problem with her nasel passage but as she has no other symptoms and I was reassured from the lovely rescue, I am leaving her well alone to enjoy her life with her new friends x
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Exactly the same as one of my old boars named pip. Lived fine like it, but did pick up 2 uri's along the way and pneumonia. Could have been unrelated
 
piggieminder said:
Thanks @PigglePuggle - I think your mums amazing.
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Thank you! Also if it helps, Mum got really fed up with being scanned and x-rayed and messed about with in hospital and made a clear decision after her last inconclusive month long hospital stay to accept pain relief, nebulisers and oxygen, and antibiotics if she has an obvious infection, but no more hospitals or complicated tests.
I really hope Spike surprises you like Mum continues to surprise us, but there's nothing wrong with drawing a line before agreeing to invasive and stressful medical procedures that can't really improve the outcome x
 
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