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Dental Wonky molar, last resorts?

Aw, that’s good news, fingers crossed for Bandit, get munching lovely boy x
 
Olivitree said:
Just wanted to share that today seemed to show more improvement, it was like something just switched on in him. He's super keen for food again, I'm with out argument getting 30mls per feeding session into him rather than fighting just to get in a full 15mls, he's super eager and energetic (he was literally climbing the walls of his box and then me when we had to wait for food to be ready) and we saw him eat pepper and cucumber today!
Still not keen on grass but our grass isn't a favourite with our piggies. Doesn't seem keen on leafy or green veg but I'll take what I can get.

He's still drooling, but it seems a tad less maybe. Less mouthing the air and throwing his head when offered food. I guess what ever in his mouth was causing discomfort may have eased?
It's promising! I'm still being cautious about getting hopeful but it was such a boost in our moral (I was scraping the bottom of the barrel I can tell you) to see him have some energy and a bit of a reward for all our hard work.
Fingers crossed he keeps improving and we can get him to Simon on a regular basis to control the issues.
Thank you everyone for your support during this it makes all the difference.
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That's brilliant new maybe now his mouth is a little better he can build up his strength ...its such a vicious circle, poor mite... you've all been through such an ordeal but hopefully now have turned a corner.
I'll be keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers... he's lucky to have such a good mum xx
He's gorgeous by the way xx
 
Hey all, took him to Simon again today,
Bit concerned, that this is the second time Bandit has come out with swelling on his lip, this time his mouth was bleeding too.
Is this method really ok? Poor boy always comes out looking so unhappy and compressed and seems to go into a stunned silence. :(
 
My two always look a bit “manhandled” but that’s only due to the nurse keeping a tight hold for a few minutes, otherwise they have always been fine. It’s so much safer than anaesthetic which really takes it toll on them. Hope he is ok now after his ordeal x
 
Looking a bit more himself, and back to being super eager for food but his poor little lip, its all pink and swollen.
Simon said it looked a little better this time and I'm going to see him in another 3 weeks for the moment. Ulceration on his tongue is gone and only minor on his cheek. Probably what changed about him wanting food. The aim is to get him eating proper food so he gets to grinding his teeth down again.
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Aw, lovely Bandit, hope his swollen lip goes down soon and he’s eating again soon x
 
Oh! Bit more of an in depth issue, what do I do about providing easy to eat, highly nutritious (and perhaps a bit fattening) foods to Bandit, while avoiding giving his already overweight buddy more opportunity to put on weight? She's kinda ballooned a bit since his teeth got bad as she doesn't have anyone to argue about food with anymore and she eats food before Bandit gets a chance.
 
You can give him oats (dry or syringed) and see if he will take it. My sick piggies liked oats in syringe better than the CC. Oats is high in fibre and will help him with his weight. You can also give him pureed carrots.
 
Can you take her out for a short while so Bandit can have his fill. Porridge oats are good at fattening piggies up, you can soak them in a little warm water first or give him them dry. Grated sweet potato. My Ted is a dental piggie, rolled up dandelion leaves was a favourite for him And beetroot out of the Bristol Salad bags too. I used to hand feed him several times a day along with syringe feeds. Critical Care is very expensive and not always liked, you can use mushed soaked pellets too if he prefers them.

Ted sees Simon every two months, he has one doggy pre-molar, I know how desperate you feel at times, but don’t give up x
 
So an update on Bandit, I am going to call Simon tomorrow, I'm not getting longer gaps or seeing improvements between one visit and the next, shorter it seems. Going to see what he thinks as he himself has said this is not curable and we have got back to ulceration within two weeks of his last trip this isn't seeming very hopeful.
He takes about 2 or 3 days to recover from swollen bleeding mouth then within about 2 weeks from the visit he's back to overgrowth cutting the mouth and drooling looking sorry for himself.

With a very stressful trip up for him I'm starting to doubt how fair this is for the old boy as no improvement, in fact worsening seems to be occurring. Even if he gets a week and a bit where he's okish but still can't touch solids, is he not touching solids because it's uncomfortable still? Is a life of discomfort and fortnightly horror OK(he does seem horrified after each visit) ? Not sure at this point :(

Got some serious thinking to do.
 
Oh, I’m so sorry for you and Bandit, it’s very sad, but sometimes you do have to weigh up what’s best for them. My two manage very well with 2 monthly visits, they can eat everything with no problems and are not unduly stressed by the journey or the procedure, but if they were I know I would have to reconsider all the option x
Sending you big hugs at this difficult time x
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
Is he able to eat for himself at all? Are you cutting his veg into thin strips? Are you giving him lots of grass?
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No real sign of eating himself, interest, but drops things as soon as he picks it up or spits it back out after a short chew that doesn't result in any parts actually being swallowed and gives up after one or two tries (with innards of cucumber only usually). Things he chews a bit tend to have very small indents in but no real chewing successs, occasionally he might break a bit off but previously thats just resulted in him "gagging" and coughing to get it out of his mouth.
All veg being cut into thin strips.
He has so far utterly refused grass and even turns away if offered it. I'll try some more tomorrow just to be sure but every time I've tried, no luck. Usually more luck with cucumber and pepper, but not really good for teeth grinding and even then generally spits it out barely chewed.

I've seen him with his nose in the fresh hay, but he doesn't appear to be attempting to eat any. I've also seen him at the dry food bowl, but the only time I've seen him attempt to eat any he's coughed it back up.

Currently he's entirely relying on me feeding him, he does get excited for his syringe meal times but I'm guessing thats not going to help his teeth or increase the time before he needs another Simon visit as the chewing isn't particularly abrasive?

If I recall correctly the main issue is the part of the tooth/teeth that is causing a problem is sprouting from a new point from the root and growing sideways, it has nothing to grind against, I will double check this tomorrow with Simon to ensure my facts are right. I'm not sure even if he did start eating himself if it would get ground away enough to increase time he spends discomfort free, but thats another thing I'll be asking Simon tomorrow.
 
Ok so offered grass again today, same response to everything else, mouth it a bit then just turns away from it.

Now I'm going to ask something thats probably going to raise eyebrows! So I'll start by saying I'm not going to do anything unless I know I can do it safely with appropriate training and with in the law.
Whats the likely hood I could get some training in guinea pig dental? I've spotted the tools around while researching and I did a smidge of law research. I'm unsure if this is covered by "minor medical treatments" as thats the extent owners appear to be allowed.

What I'm seeing is this is the only way forward if this is going to be a life long problem that recurs within every 2 weeks, that way we could skip the stress of the trip, I could do it more regularly so its a shorter procedure and in familiar surroundings.
I worked it out at about £4200 a year to get treatment from Simon every 2 weeks, Bandit is healthy otherwise so I'd expect a couple more years out of him potentially (he's about 5 or 6), so, I'd be happy to fork out for equipment and training instead if it were available as it would come out cheaper and probably less stressful.

Is this a possible thing, does anyone know or am I just grasping at straws here?
 
Olivitree said:
Ok so offered grass again today, same response to everything else, mouth it a bit then just turns away from it.

Now I'm going to ask something thats probably going to raise eyebrows! So I'll start by saying I'm not going to do anything unless I know I can do it safely with appropriate training and with in the law.
Whats the likely hood I could get some training in guinea pig dental? I've spotted the tools around while researching and I did a smidge of law research. I'm unsure if this is covered by "minor medical treatments" as thats the extent owners appear to be allowed.

What I'm seeing is this is the only way forward if this is going to be a life long problem that recurs within every 2 weeks, that way we could skip the stress of the trip, I could do it more regularly so its a shorter procedure and in familiar surroundings.
I worked it out at about £4200 a year to get treatment from Simon every 2 weeks, Bandit is healthy otherwise so I'd expect a couple more years out of him potentially (he's about 5 or 6), so, I'd be happy to fork out for equipment and training instead if it were available as it would come out cheaper and probably less stressful.

Is this a possible thing, does anyone know or am I just grasping at straws here?
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This sounds illegal and very unsafe unless you are a qualified vet! I have a PhD in veterinary research but I would never, ever treat my pets myself with anything other than a prescription strength mite treatment or some mild pain relief. And even then I would only do that while phoning the vet.
I mean, do you have an autoclave for sterilising medical equipment? Anticoagulents if you couldnt stop the bleeding? A sterile operating theatre? Oxygen and prescription sedatives or stimulants on hand if piggy went into shock?
I appreciate you may be frustrated with the lack of progress but home surgery is NOT an option :(
 
I can’t echo the sentiments of @PigglePuggle strongly enough

Have a read of this 19. Treatment of animals by unqualified persons - Professionals

You may be breaking the law Veterinary Surgeons Act 1966 and also putting your piggies life at risk.

I would advise ringing around all your vets closer to you to see if any are experienced in dentals, we found a vet by us that is by telephoning and asking The question
 
I’m going to tag @furryfriends (TEAS) into this thread. She has probably the most experience of dental piggies out of any member on here. She can give an idea whether this is likely to be an issue that will require fortnightly treatment forever which you seem to think it might.
Personally I doubt that this is the case as the aim of dental treatment is usually to help to correct the teeth to encourage normal jaw and tooth action and to gain longer and longer periods between dentals and sometimes eventually only a maintenance treatment once in a blue moon.
As a forum we cannot ever advocate home treatment of the type you are contemplating (hypothetically in your post) either ethically or legally. I appreciate that you are currently in despair but this is not the way to go forward. Please have a sensible and practical discussion with Simon about the long term prognosis.
 
I've been running TEAS since 2011 and many times I've had to pick up the pieces, after DIY dentistry, when piggies have arrived here in a dreadful state, with substantial damage to their teeth and jaw. Simon has perfected his skill over more than 12 years now and it isn't something to be learnt from a quick session at the CCT or watching a youtube video. Whilst this DIY practice is illegal, it is also dangerous. There is an artery at the back of the mouth and if you catch it, you will watch your guinea pig bleed out, right in front of you! What Simon does requires a lot of skill and understanding of the complex dentition of a guinea pig. As @VickiA has already mentioned, the aim of the conscious dentals, that Simon carries out, is to, over time, stretch out the gap between dentals, as the guinea pig starts to eat for themselves. It is still very early days for your guinea pig and hopefully things will start to improve, if you stick with the schedule that Simon advises.

TEAS is sometimes able to offer permanent homes to guinea pigs with ongoing dental issues, if the constant travel to Simon gets to much, so this may be something you would like to consider. If you do, I would need you to give the practice a ring, to give permission for Simon to speak with me about your guinea pig. Your case would then be put to the trustees, who would decide if a place could be offered and when. I know this isn't probably what you want to do, but just wanted to let you know there may be a Plan B.
 
That’s a fantastic offer from TEAS, if the situation is really bad for you. Guinea pig dentistry needs very specialist experience, something sadly most vets don’t have. I have full confidence in Simon, he has certainly saved my Ted’s life. I know how desperate you are feeling and can understand how you might think you could do this yourself, I also know that deep down you know you could not do this, it’s just sheer despair, so don’t beat yourself up x
 
I would strongly recommend you considering letting TEAS help you.It will take a great deal of pressure off you and the lady who runs TEAS is so experienced with these issues.There is never a certainty that a piggy with complex dental issues will be cured but there is a possibility that your piggies problem can be managed to best effect by TEAS and Simon.I have every faith in TEAS and Simon as an experienced and knowledgeable team who have been helping dental piggies for many years.
 
I did state I had no intention of doing anything if not safe or legal and was seeking information only but I guess that was skimmed. Lectures not required no need to worry I have his best interests in mind. I was thinking thorough hands on training with someone qualified, not YouTube videos.😕 People can't honestly think YouTube is a substitute.

I am repeatedly told Simon is very good, just struggling with working out if this is fair on Bandit when I get back a battered, bruised and bleeding guinea pig with no signs of improvement and a few days recovering and looking even more sad than before then such a short time of being comfortable before we go through it all again.

Didn't get to talk to Simon today so going to attempt tomorrow though I expect he's very busy on their only open weekend day.

That is a lovely offer from TEAS I will keep in mind and see what Simon says about his situation.
 
@Olivitree sorry your boy is having constant with his teeth. Hopefully Simon is able to help you further and the visits become less frequent eventually.

I know you said you wouldn’t do it unless safe and legal (I did see that part). As it’s illegal am I right to assume you won’t pursue it now? Even if you’re trained by a qualified and experienced person (vet being the only one), you’re not a vet so won’t know the anatomy of a piggy. That vein they talk about could probably be easily nicked by someone carrying out a procedure when they’re not qualified.

Good luck with Bandit and I hope you come to a solution soon.
 
@Siikibam it wasn't on the table to be perused in the first place as the caviats at the start of the first enquiry made quite clear with stating only if I could do it safely and with in the law.
If it's not legal, it's not legal, with that as it is no vet would train me so it's not safe.

At least I thought I made that clear and yet the avalanche of lectures suggests otherwise or other folks skimmed that bit!

I raised the question to gather information on if there were other ways, I'd rather research every avenue and find some are dead ends that won't work than just follow one method blindly to find it wasn't the answer but I run out of time to research and try anything else.
 
Olivitree said:
@Siikibam it wasn't on the table to be perused in the first place as the caviats at the start of the first enquiry made quite clear with stating only if I could do it safely and with in the law.
If it's not legal, it's not legal, with that as it is no vet would train me so it's not safe.

At least I thought I made that clear and yet the avalanche of lectures suggests otherwise or other folks skimmed that bit!

I raised the question to gather information on if there were other ways, I'd rather research every avenue and find some are dead ends that won't work than just follow one method blindly to find it wasn't the answer but I run out of time to research and try anything else.
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We did all see the bit about you saying you won’t if you can’t do it. However, we see a lot of questions regarding home remedies on the health section. We did see that you said you wouldn’t. There were not any lectures but the information has to be put out there on each post. If anybody runs internet searches on this subject and this post comes up, all the information has to be present on that particular thread at that time to ensure that the site remains within the law and ethical with our advice. We will never condone the use of any home treatment in any circumstance.
 
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