Stone me! George's secret...

Free Ranger

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I'm putting this into chat rather than H&I as my gentle boy is doing surprisingly well and I don't want to bung up the important bit of the forum when desperate owners are trying to get though. Things are in hand. He was a bit traumatised after his experience - but not so much as his owner and our poor young vet went weak at the knees! We've had George for 4 years: he was 18 months when we adopted him from Blue Cross as companion to my beloved Ivy. When Ivy became unwell for some weeks (and eventually passed late in 2020) he developed a UTI and we discovered he had started to become impacted. He had been stressed while she was ill and we thought it was probably all linked. A short course of antibiotics and an evening cleaning regime set him right. Later he developed stiff knees so now he gets daily metacam and glucosamine biccies. Why am I telling you all this again? It's because every night for months and months I've turned George over and had a poke round his personal areas (with my glasses on and everything) keeping him clean and clear. Washed his poopy bum in warm water and dabbed him dry. And every 3 months a proper piggy vet goes all over him with their poky fingers to check he's managing OK on his meds and they praise his mighty 1.35 kilos and his clean teeth and shiny, shiny coat and his sparkling anus. Which makes what happened even more unbelievable.

So I'm a bit tense Thursday night because I have to fetch boffin daughter from maths camp on Friday and it's going to be a 7 hour round trip that dad can't do because he's got covid. Also I have to be there for 1pm and I'm notoriously unpunctual thus bringing shame upon uber-timely child. We were so late arriving they'd locked the posh main drive gate and we had to go in the back way past the skips. Had also arranged to drop in and see my old Mum on way back and she was doing a Tea so timing important. All this flashes before my eyes as I turn George over for his evening treatment and see... a swelling the size of a conker in his lower abdomen. Heart drops into boots. He's eyeballing me. I give it a gentle little poke and he squeaks. Try to fathom what this is - he penis ridge seems swollen too, it doesn't feel right and I'm starting to sweat because all I can think of is a blocked bladder and that's bad, bad news for my old boy. So I put him back gently and decide to give it an hour or two to see if that goes down at all. Maybe I just caught him at a difficult moment? I mean, what are the chances...

George hasn't seemed quite right since the heatwave but it's been very hard to put your finger on anything. His last vet check was a month ago - fine - usual weight - lovely big boy showed his shiny teeth with no problem. But he had seemed to be getting a bit lighter recently and he'd been shedding hair. On Sunday he'd weighed in at 1.3 kilo so I was on guard. On Monday he was on the cushion and didn't bother getting off for the grass, but then it was very meagre because the heat killed pretty much everything and the girls were snuffling round it in disappointment. Did his poops look a bit smaller? Hard to tell as impaction means we get random sizes anyway, but I think there's less. Then on Thursday this happens. But he's still eating his hay and chugging his water bottle like a trouper so I hover nervously for a hour or so and then turn him over again. Phew - the conker has disappeared, so he's peed... but his penis still looks unusual. I check the end for sperm rods (which he's never had), hay or other obstruction - nothing - but he doesn't like being touched. Maybe some sort of infection or growth... maybe a tumour... I wake in the night sweating about how I'm going to juggle everything tomorrow to try and get him to the vet. Maybe this is the end for my old boy...

So up at 7 Friday morning and the vet is half an hour away and can fit him in at 8.45. Need to leave from home at 9.30, 10 at latest if M1 is clear all the way - don't start thinking ahead yet! One step at a time. So pop him in his snuggle sack and into the cat box and off we go. Young vet is lovely and listens carefully to his medical history - 5 and a half, mild impaction, one UTI some time ago, arthritis - on meds, no history of stones. Bit of weight loss, but input and output not a priority concern yet. Had his 4u of dog metacam this morning. Concerned about bladder blockage. She starts by checking his eyes, ears, teeth, then carefully all over. Fingers exploring sides and underneath, gentle pressure on bladder, stethoscope comes out etc. Concludes good gut sounds although he has lost a bit more (1.28) and soft bladder thank goodness. So we turn him over and he lays on his back, good as gold, while we both peer at his swollen penis ridge. As usual George's tackle is not visible, the tip is actually tucked away in his anal pouch, if you can imagine that, so you have to dig for it. So vet gloves up and gets a bit of lube and in she goes. I don't know at what point she realised this could be a stone as it all happened very fast after that but a firm squeeze and a mighty squeak later and this appears out of nowhere:
George stone 1.webpGeorge stone 2.webpGeorge stone 3.webp

We both exclaim. Vet says, "that's his history of stones right there!" and takes it off to wash (because with its rubbery coating it was actually bigger) and I turn George and hold him close. He seems OK, if a bit startled. Vet turns to speak just as George does the biggest wee all down the front of my white blouse. What a relief it must have been. We both examine the wet patch - no blood tint - amazing.

We can't know for sure but we think this might have actually accumulated bit by bit in his penis. Have a look at this photo and you can see a sort of groove running the length of the stone which we think he must have been peeing though all this time. It seemed impossible, but there it was.
George stone 4.webp
How long? Well we can't know. And it must have been kind of up the top end tucked right inside him because as I said at the beginning George is examined all the time. For some reason it finally moved. Maybe it started when he first got impacted, maybe before. I've had George so long he predates our use of decent pellets and low Ca water. Then again he was already 18 months when I got him. Or maybe it's quite recent. It looks big enough to get carbon-dated but I'm not sure my vet has the facility for that!

So brief discussion about x-ray which is obvs the next step but all things considered (partly time, and partly that this lovely vet would rather anaesthetise piggies for x-ray because she doesn't want to stress them out) I said I'd monitor him for complications and book him in for one if he seemed OK, bring him back sooner if things go awry. At the back of my mind I'm thinking that I don't actually want one too soon in case he gets the all clear and another one is brewing in the next few weeks. So now we're back watching like a hawk and George is feeling a bit self-conscious whenever he eats anything because everyone is staring at him! But he's doing great. He wolfed down 10ml of CC voluntarily on that first day but has refused to touch it since. He's been stuffing his face with a source of new grass (I've been trespassing slightly, but when I get challenged then I'll know who to ask permission from!) He doesn't seem to realise he's had a remarkable escape - and perhaps unsurprisingly he seems to have a new lease of life. He's back to 1.3 kilo at this point. Here he is stripping the roof off carrot cottage.
stripping the roof.webp
I was late to pick up daughter - obvs - but not too late as there was still one more child left whose parent would have to do the walk of shame. You can't have everything!
 
Good grief! I literally don’t know what to say - that is quite some stone there George!
I’m so glad he is fine. What a trooper he is!


I have the opposite problem, I’m so worried about being late that I’m always stupidly early for everything, it’s just as shameful….child turning their back on me as I’m the only parent to have arrived! (Hides in car)
My husband teases me whenever we have to be somewhere -
how long is the journey
Oh, half an hour, we’ve got to there by 12
Leaving at 8 then are we?
Oh ha ha ha
 
I'm putting this into chat rather than H&I as my gentle boy is doing surprisingly well and I don't want to bung up the important bit of the forum when desperate owners are trying to get though. Things are in hand. He was a bit traumatised after his experience - but not so much as his owner and our poor young vet went weak at the knees! We've had George for 4 years: he was 18 months when we adopted him from Blue Cross as companion to my beloved Ivy. When Ivy became unwell for some weeks (and eventually passed late in 2020) he developed a UTI and we discovered he had started to become impacted. He had been stressed while she was ill and we thought it was probably all linked. A short course of antibiotics and an evening cleaning regime set him right. Later he developed stiff knees so now he gets daily metacam and glucosamine biccies. Why am I telling you all this again? It's because every night for months and months I've turned George over and had a poke round his personal areas (with my glasses on and everything) keeping him clean and clear. Washed his poopy bum in warm water and dabbed him dry. And every 3 months a proper piggy vet goes all over him with their poky fingers to check he's managing OK on his meds and they praise his mighty 1.35 kilos and his clean teeth and shiny, shiny coat and his sparkling anus. Which makes what happened even more unbelievable.

So I'm a bit tense Thursday night because I have to fetch boffin daughter from maths camp on Friday and it's going to be a 7 hour round trip that dad can't do because he's got covid. Also I have to be there for 1pm and I'm notoriously unpunctual thus bringing shame upon uber-timely child. We were so late arriving they'd locked the posh main drive gate and we had to go in the back way past the skips. Had also arranged to drop in and see my old Mum on way back and she was doing a Tea so timing important. All this flashes before my eyes as I turn George over for his evening treatment and see... a swelling the size of a conker in his lower abdomen. Heart drops into boots. He's eyeballing me. I give it a gentle little poke and he squeaks. Try to fathom what this is - he penis ridge seems swollen too, it doesn't feel right and I'm starting to sweat because all I can think of is a blocked bladder and that's bad, bad news for my old boy. So I put him back gently and decide to give it an hour or two to see if that goes down at all. Maybe I just caught him at a difficult moment? I mean, what are the chances...

George hasn't seemed quite right since the heatwave but it's been very hard to put your finger on anything. His last vet check was a month ago - fine - usual weight - lovely big boy showed his shiny teeth with no problem. But he had seemed to be getting a bit lighter recently and he'd been shedding hair. On Sunday he'd weighed in at 1.3 kilo so I was on guard. On Monday he was on the cushion and didn't bother getting off for the grass, but then it was very meagre because the heat killed pretty much everything and the girls were snuffling round it in disappointment. Did his poops look a bit smaller? Hard to tell as impaction means we get random sizes anyway, but I think there's less. Then on Thursday this happens. But he's still eating his hay and chugging his water bottle like a trouper so I hover nervously for a hour or so and then turn him over again. Phew - the conker has disappeared, so he's peed... but his penis still looks unusual. I check the end for sperm rods (which he's never had), hay or other obstruction - nothing - but he doesn't like being touched. Maybe some sort of infection or growth... maybe a tumour... I wake in the night sweating about how I'm going to juggle everything tomorrow to try and get him to the vet. Maybe this is the end for my old boy...

So up at 7 Friday morning and the vet is half an hour away and can fit him in at 8.45. Need to leave from home at 9.30, 10 at latest if M1 is clear all the way - don't start thinking ahead yet! One step at a time. So pop him in his snuggle sack and into the cat box and off we go. Young vet is lovely and listens carefully to his medical history - 5 and a half, mild impaction, one UTI some time ago, arthritis - on meds, no history of stones. Bit of weight loss, but input and output not a priority concern yet. Had his 4u of dog metacam this morning. Concerned about bladder blockage. She starts by checking his eyes, ears, teeth, then carefully all over. Fingers exploring sides and underneath, gentle pressure on bladder, stethoscope comes out etc. Concludes good gut sounds although he has lost a bit more (1.28) and soft bladder thank goodness. So we turn him over and he lays on his back, good as gold, while we both peer at his swollen penis ridge. As usual George's tackle is not visible, the tip is actually tucked away in his anal pouch, if you can imagine that, so you have to dig for it. So vet gloves up and gets a bit of lube and in she goes. I don't know at what point she realised this could be a stone as it all happened very fast after that but a firm squeeze and a mighty squeak later and this appears out of nowhere:
View attachment 208524View attachment 208525View attachment 208526

We both exclaim. Vet says, "that's his history of stones right there!" and takes it off to wash (because with its rubbery coating it was actually bigger) and I turn George and hold him close. He seems OK, if a bit startled. Vet turns to speak just as George does the biggest wee all down the front of my white blouse. What a relief it must have been. We both examine the wet patch - no blood tint - amazing.

We can't know for sure but we think this might have actually accumulated bit by bit in his penis. Have a look at this photo and you can see a sort of groove running the length of the stone which we think he must have been peeing though all this time. It seemed impossible, but there it was.
View attachment 208527
How long? Well we can't know. And it must have been kind of up the top end tucked right inside him because as I said at the beginning George is examined all the time. For some reason it finally moved. Maybe it started when he first got impacted, maybe before. I've had George so long he predates our use of decent pellets and low Ca water. Then again he was already 18 months when I got him. Or maybe it's quite recent. It looks big enough to get carbon-dated but I'm not sure my vet has the facility for that!

So brief discussion about x-ray which is obvs the next step but all things considered (partly time, and partly that this lovely vet would rather anaesthetise piggies for x-ray because she doesn't want to stress them out) I said I'd monitor him for complications and book him in for one if he seemed OK, bring him back sooner if things go awry. At the back of my mind I'm thinking that I don't actually want one too soon in case he gets the all clear and another one is brewing in the next few weeks. So now we're back watching like a hawk and George is feeling a bit self-conscious whenever he eats anything because everyone is staring at him! But he's doing great. He wolfed down 10ml of CC voluntarily on that first day but has refused to touch it since. He's been stuffing his face with a source of new grass (I've been trespassing slightly, but when I get challenged then I'll know who to ask permission from!) He doesn't seem to realise he's had a remarkable escape - and perhaps unsurprisingly he seems to have a new lease of life. He's back to 1.3 kilo at this point. Here he is stripping the roof off carrot cottage.
View attachment 208530
I was late to pick up daughter - obvs - but not too late as there was still one more child left whose parent would have to do the walk of shame. You can't have everything!
Oh my goodness. Poor George. I can’t imagine how that came out of there. 😲. He must be feeling soooo much better now.
 
Oh my word. That is eye wateringly large. What a thing to be hiding for so long. I’m sure he’s feeling soooo much better not that’s gone. Well done to the vet!
 
My goodness! He handled that mahoosive stone with strength! Well done George and I hope you are feeling real relief now.
 
Aww poor George that must be some relief for him! Glad he is feeling better and stuffing his face!
 
Update. It's been a week and George has had the 'all-clear' from piggy-savvy vet Charlotte so we can relax a bit, obvs with the proviso that he's an older boy who needs extra tlc for his issues. He's been fine during the week, eating like a trouper and rumbling all over, the hair loss has stopped but he's not put any weight back on. However, vet says she's not worried about that as he's still a good weight 😅

He's on a 5 day course of Baytril as he startled me on Monday night with a puddle of brown wee. None-gritty though. Mostly he's been fine since although there was another on Wednesday night followed by a clear one 20 minutes later. But there were no other UTI symptoms so we have concluded that it's probably not UTI but better safe than sorry and to complete the course anyway. Considering what he passed we're getting off very lightly.

Because of the grooved shape of the stone and the fact it was found in his penis Charlotte reckons it formed there. She's seen this sort of thing before (I got the impression this wasn't even the biggest!) and said it would have been too big to pass out of the bladder but more likely accumulated in the urethra until it perhaps moved a bit and caused the blockage. Apparently it could have been building up slowly over time or pretty quickly over the past few weeks - she said they can grow exponentially like a snowball rolling down a hill. It may even have been triggered by the recent heatwave if he got a bit dehydrated. My task is to keep him fully hydrated - so we now have 5 water bottles between 3 pigs!

George endured the indignity of being laid on his back on the snuggle sack and having lots of poky fingers examine him very thoroughly and luckily there was no bladder tenderness and kidneys felt fine (can you feel kidneys?!) It was a 2-handed job to locate and properly express his very stinky tinkle (I left that to Charlotte!) which was apparently "a bit yeasty" following his ordeal but she cleaned him up some. She actually decided against x-ray because there was nothing to indicate more stones and she said if she did do one she'd like him under so she could get a look from two angles: this is because sludge can look like a stone but from another angle you can tell for sure whether it can be passed or whether an op is needed. So fingers crossed this is an end to George's stony issue! For such a timid lad he's been very, very brave 🏅💕
donut George.webp
 
Update. It's been a week and George has had the 'all-clear' from piggy-savvy vet Charlotte so we can relax a bit, obvs with the proviso that he's an older boy who needs extra tlc for his issues. He's been fine during the week, eating like a trouper and rumbling all over, the hair loss has stopped but he's not put any weight back on. However, vet says she's not worried about that as he's still a good weight 😅

He's on a 5 day course of Baytril as he startled me on Monday night with a puddle of brown wee. None-gritty though. Mostly he's been fine since although there was another on Wednesday night followed by a clear one 20 minutes later. But there were no other UTI symptoms so we have concluded that it's probably not UTI but better safe than sorry and to complete the course anyway. Considering what he passed we're getting off very lightly.

Because of the grooved shape of the stone and the fact it was found in his penis Charlotte reckons it formed there. She's seen this sort of thing before (I got the impression this wasn't even the biggest!) and said it would have been too big to pass out of the bladder but more likely accumulated in the urethra until it perhaps moved a bit and caused the blockage. Apparently it could have been building up slowly over time or pretty quickly over the past few weeks - she said they can grow exponentially like a snowball rolling down a hill. It may even have been triggered by the recent heatwave if he got a bit dehydrated. My task is to keep him fully hydrated - so we now have 5 water bottles between 3 pigs!

George endured the indignity of being laid on his back on the snuggle sack and having lots of poky fingers examine him very thoroughly and luckily there was no bladder tenderness and kidneys felt fine (can you feel kidneys?!) It was a 2-handed job to locate and properly express his very stinky tinkle (I left that to Charlotte!) which was apparently "a bit yeasty" following his ordeal but she cleaned him up some. She actually decided against x-ray because there was nothing to indicate more stones and she said if she did do one she'd like him under so she could get a look from two angles: this is because sludge can look like a stone but from another angle you can tell for sure whether it can be passed or whether an op is needed. So fingers crossed this is an end to George's stony issue! For such a timid lad he's been very, very brave 🏅💕
View attachment 208739
Oh George, what a trooper ❤️
 
Stony update: and sadly not good news 😔
George has had a tender bladder for about a week and has been passing blood-tinted pee. His snuggle-tunnel is wet - and George never wets his tunnel.
So after a short course of Baytril, which improved things but not much, he finally had an x-ray yesterday and he's got another stone. I'd been trying to prepare mentally but it's still a blow. I'd booked in with the vet who faced the same situation with her old boy and she was so sympathetic. George is nearly 6 and if he managed to survive a surgery he would likely throw another stone within weeks. So we're on a second antibiotic and metacam and we'll just take things one day at a time. George's weight stabilised around 1.28kilo after his first stone and he's down about 100g on that so still a decent weight but it's likely we're onto palliative care now. He's still enjoying piggy life, rumbling his ladies and ploughing into the grass pile, but he's got a damp tummy all the time and being unbunged is uncomfortable for him - he complains to me at home although he never made a peep at the vets! He'll have to be monitored much more closely to make sure the bladder doesn't block and his impaction doesn't interfere with anything.
This vet has seen the first stone and she can't imagine it forming in the penis. She thinks it's much more likely to have formed in the bladder and jammed in the penis. Having seen the tiny penis on a guinea pig both scenarios seem massively unlikely. But the lump in George's tinkle did appear literally overnight the last time and perhaps because of this the vet said, "He might pass it... he passed the other one..."
So I keep telling my aching heart to hold him close and hope for the best while we prepare for the worst. It's the uncertainty that gets to you. I nearly didn't post about this at all as I'm usually better keeping to myself at times like this but however we end up this thread might be useful to someone else in the same situation at some point in the future. He's such a lovely, gentle-natured boy and we'll do our best for him 💕
 
I’m so sorry to hear this. I am certainly thinking of you and George and sending best wishes.

You are right, the uncertainty is the difficult part.
When I knew Patch the rabbit was coming to his end it was a terrible blow after almost a decade together but those last few weeks were a blessing and we were able to really enjoy his time.

We are all here for you.
 
I am so dreadfully sorry to read this. Holding you and the lovely George in my heart as you navigate this tricky time together x
 
Sorry to hear about lovely George.
Thinking of you all 🥰
 
I’m so sorry. I hope George has many more happy days with you and his ladies. ❤️
 
I'm sorry to hear that you're having problem George. Can you ask your Mummy if she lives in a hard water area and if so, does she filter it for you. We used to suffer from excess calcium until our parents started filtering our water.
Good luck,
Snowy, matriarch of the GPM Piggies.
 
Poor George and poor you, I’m so sorry it’s not better news.
I hope you and George have still got lots of wonderful times left, he sound like he is still enjoying his life x
 
I'm sorry to hear that you're having problem George. Can you ask your Mummy if she lives in a hard water area and if so, does she filter it for you. We used to suffer from excess calcium until our parents started filtering our water.
Good luck,
Snowy, matriarch of the GPM Piggies.
Yes, George and his ladies get posh duchy water from the Waitrose which at 3mg/L is the lowest calcium we could find!
There have not really been any changes to the piggy diet that I can think of. George has been pretty lucky up till the point he got his giant stone. But he was 5 1/2 this summer so I suppose there may have been metabolic changes in the old boy. The other thing is that about a month ago (after the shock of the big stone) I started offering George water in a little 1ml syringe (the sort with a rubbery bit so the liquid just dribbles out) and he was pouncing on it. He's always been very good chugging on his bottle and he's top pig so he doesn't get pushed out (although fat Louise does pretend she can't hear him sometimes until he boofs her out of the way). But it was almost like he didn't realise that he wanted a drink sometimes. So when he's eating his pellets at night I'll sit with him with the syringe and he turns his head when he wants a bit. He still uses his bottle... I don't know, maybe a big stone just makes you thirsty. Maybe he just likes a syringe... he certainly loves his metacam!
 
So, George is slowly deteriorating we think. His impaction and arthritis complicates things. He doesn't want to move much now, so gets more bunged up than ever and trying to poop bothers him. He'll sometimes chirp when he poops as well as when he pees. He's unbunged morning and evening, and his moist tummy and legs are slooshed with warm water and then patted dry to keep him comfortable. His skin is black so it's hard to spot urine scald but he's looking OK as far as I can tell. He has a little forage with the girls at both ends of the day and then I top him up with the syringe. I can't think he'll pass this stone - I'm pretty certain the first one must have formed in the penis itself. I can't bring myself to post his x-ray even if it is informative - seeing his little bones breaks my heart.

He's still eating his veg with gusto but today he was only picking at the hay and he's not bothered with any grass for a few days which is sad when I think what a big boy he was a few months ago. He's about a kilo in weight now and still looks glossy but feels bony round the back, poor love. He takes a few dandelion leaves from the grass pile but if I didn't syringe him he'd go downhill pretty fast, and I don't want to 'keep him going' artificially if you know what I mean, but although he's less active he's still coming out and about at foraging time in the mornings and evenings and has a little go at the pellets and the hay cube, so I let him do as he likes then top him up. We're just feeling our way through... the girls are as fat as h*ll on his leftovers though! 🥲

I posted in the chat thread about him drinking a lot from a 1ml syringe. I was speculating whether older pigs (he's nearly 6) forget to drink like older people - I still don't know. Something triggered these stones - either the heatwave caught him out, or age has affected his kidneys, or he was just forgetting to drink. He'll have about 20ml during the day from the syringe at the mo. I'm not sure why he dropped off his bottle drinking - I still see him glugging on it some days - but this sudden onset of syringe guzzling must have been linked with his kidneys/bladder/urethra problems. When he got his UTI he had the big bladder stone on x-ray and a urethra full of crusty sludge and he was soaked through underneath all day - as fast as he drank it just came straight out - but now he's cleared that he's just damp all the time as he drips pee rather than peeing properly. The back-2-nature soaks most of it up though.

He's stopped eating his glucosamine lozenges which is a pain, so we tried him with the feliway cystease which plenty of folk have used with no issues, but it actually looked like it upset his guts - his poop went very spladgy and he was pooping what looked like stretchy jelly. Obvs it may have been coincidence but this coincided with a dash to the vet last week when he suddenly dried up, stopped eating and hid away (I really thought it might have been 'time'), so I've not dared risk it again. Vet checked him all over and said his kidneys felt 'comfortable' and his bladder didn't seem blocked so it wasn't as bad as I feared. The exam may have shifted something as he perked up when he got home and surprised me by gobbling down a plate of Recovery food. He started to eat a bit more, drink a lot more, and get wet underneath again, but I'm guessing this is his new normal. He's been very tolerant of all the washing, unbunging, cuddling and syringing. He doesn't seem to have blood tint to his pee any more either - maybe the cystease helped there even if it did upset his gut.

So rather depressingly it's just what goes first... will his kidneys finally pack up, will he get too thin and give up, will the stone get too big and cause more pain, will his teeth overgrow (maybe teeth slow down in the older pig - I hope so), will he get depressed, will impaction halt the guts... I'm a planner by nature and it's so hard to just take thing day-by-day. I get very down in the evenings but so far he's been settled for the night comfortably with a full tum and greets me with veg-related squeaks in the mornings so he's doing OK. And, taking a step back, George has lived a long, fine life without much illness until this point and keeping him comfortable isn't much. I just so wanted his last chapter to be what he deserves. He's such a lovely boy x
 
I am so sorry. Sending hugs to you and George.
I had a similar situation a few years ago so I really feel for you. You will know when the time is right to let him go. Try not to overthink too much, live in the moment if you can (hard I know).
 
I'm so sorry to hear about George's struggles. It is strange that he isn't drinking from the water bottle as much. I wonder if his arthritis is causing him pain or is preventing him from tipping his head up to reach the water bottle.
 
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