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Snowy & Smudge off to the vets

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When I syringe feed I do not use Recovery by itself.I mix ir with ground up dry mix(you can use a coffee grinder).I also add pureed carrot or fruit.The jars of baby puree are very good,They like the carrot and potato one. Mashed banana is worth a try as well.Give a little water after 2 mouthfuls of food.
 
Thanks Mary, sorry I should have reiterated that I have been mixing baby food in with the Recovery, haven't tried the carrot and potato as I wasn't sure piggies could have potato - will get some later and give it a go. Mashed up banana is also a good idea, I hadn't thought about that. I have tried putting some boiling water on the Cavy Cuisine pellets to soften them, letting the mash cool and have then mixed this in with the Recovery, coffee grinder sounds a good idea - note to self to see if I can find my old one!

Is there an optimum amount I should be trying to get him to take in a day?
 
40 mls a day should be sufficient.It depends whether the piggy is eating hay or anything by itself.Weigh the pig every day,this will indicate whether you are giving enough.
Potato is not the ideal food for piggies ,but the small amount in the jars of baby food is o.k.Try and get the organic jars.
 
Just a quick update on Snowy. He is still not eating by himself, so I am having to syringe him a mixture of Recovery, baby food and ground up Cavy Cuisine. He takes the food pretty well, but despite trying him on all his old favourite fresh fruit and veg he still won't feed himself :(. He isn't eating his pellets or hay either. For the last couple of days he has actually managed to pick up a small piece of bean, he then chews it before spitting it back out :-\. The only thing I have seen him successfully eat by himself is poo, but even that seems hard work!

I've had him out in the playroom a couple of times today "free ranging" whilst I've been cleaning everyone out and he's much stronger on his legs and has been running around checking everything out. He still looks very sad and somewhat depressed and I just don't know what to do for the best. I've moved his cage right up against the boys' so that he can see them and I've put a teddy in with him for company. Poor Snowy, I was hoping for a little more improvement :(.
 
:( i hope he starts improving soon, you are doing all you can for him. Stick at it and hopefully we will see an improvement soon, i have my fingers crossed x
 
Oh love i've just caught up with this news :'( :'( :'(
poor little Snowy :'(
we're sending heaps of healing wheeks and gentle kisses from me on his nose and cute little ears :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten:

i use CC and always mix pureed baby apples our boy loves it this way and i add the probiotics (thanks again Niki) once a day and he doesn't have a problem with tummy probs anymore O0

best of luck love, and some ((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))) for you too, i know the road you're travelling down it aint easy :(
 
Just a quick update. Snowy is still with us, although he still refuses to feed himself :(. He is much stronger and spends quite a bit of the day running around the playroom. In desperation I have offered him some flake GP food and he has been riffling through the bowl, picking bits up, but still not really eating anything. He is still taking his Recovery/CC pellet mash/baby food well and is maintaining his weight.

Can Septrin and Metacam depress the appetite? He is still on 0.7ml twice a day of Septrin and 1 drop twice a day of Metacam. He is pooing again and it ranges from small dry poos to quite large clumps of squishy, but not runny, poo (sorry to be so descriptive!). He loves his water and probiotic and takes that willingly.

We are off to the vets tomorrow morning, which I am not looking forward to :(. I will speak to the vet about his meds, but just wondered whether you guys have any input. He has been on a 1ml dose twice a day in the past for bladder issues and this didn't seem to upset him, so I am wondering whether it is the Metacam? I suspect they will have to x-ray Snowy to see if we can find out one way or another what his problem is - I am more and more convinced it must be a teeth/mouth issue. He tried to eat a tiny bit of brocolli floret today, he picked it up, threw it around and I think managed to nibble a tiny piece off, he was definitely chewing something.

Will update you tomorrow.
 
In my experience, metacam supresses everything a little bit :( it seemed to make Ralfie a bit numb all round and he did lose weight on it, He was on septrin and gained weight so i dont think it would be that. I hope it turns out ok :( good luck for the vets x
 
Metacam is a good anti inflammatory.painkiller and I do use it for my pigs,but with caution.I rarely give more than 2 drops per daY,and try not to give it for more than 3 days without a break.Metacam has a side affect of kidney danage and as piggies have weak renal systems anyway,it is not my favourite drug for them.

Septrin and Metacam could depress the appetite although I have not experienced this with any piggies I have used them on .It depends on the type of illness and the individual piggy.
I never give more than 0.4 to 0.5 ml per day of Septrin.

Has he actually had his teeth examined thoroughly?,there could be a spur on the molars.
 
The vet doesn't have buccal separators Mary, he used a scope to look in the mouth and in fact a second vet also checked him out. They are talking about giving him a whiff of gas to x-ray and give him a full dental check, but he wasn't strong enough last visit to risk the gas. We don't have any local vets that will do the procedure fully conscious. I have to say I think it is more likely to be a tooth problem.
 
Are you near Beckenham (sorry I can't remember), Jacky's vet might do teeth without anaesthetic, if not she'll probably know someone who does ;)
 
I cannot understand why a vet surgery does not have buccal pad seperators!.A gp teeth/mouth cannot be examined properly without these because the skin flaps in the mouth obscure the molars.

X rays can be done without sedation.
 
Unfortunately Mary none of the vets in this area appear to use buccal pad separators to look at a gp's teeth, not even the more cavy savvy ones, I only wish more vets WERE trained in the proper care of piggies.

Karen I have asked Jacky before about the vets she uses - I am a good 45 mins + away from her vets. A member on another forum also uses one of Jacky's vets and confirmed that they will not treat/trim piggy teeth without anaesthetic :(.

We have just got back from the vets and the vet confirmed my fears. It is not actually Snowy's teeth that appear to be the problem it is the roots. He jaw bone is very knobbly and thickened and on checking his mouth again (with a scope and then his fingers :-\) he said that the gum where the molars go into the jaw looked sore on one side. He has said that it is worth trying to change the pain meds for a week to see if this makes any difference to Snowy's appetite/ability to eat so he is now on one quarter of a tablet of Rimadyl a day - he said it would probably take a couple of days to take effect properly. He has also reduced his Septrin to 0.7ml once a day (this was primarily for bladder probs). Would it be worth getting hold of some Neem toothpaste from Chrissie, I'm not sure if this would be of any help in this instance?

I now feel a complete heal, if it's jaw/bone problems then there appears to be very little we can do long term except keep Snowy comfortable. If he still refuses to eat by himself then I have got to consider whether it is fair to keep him going, when I assume the long term prognosis is not great. :'( We are struggling to keep his weight up, despite giving him regular syringe feeds throughout the day/evening and although he likes to have a run around he is not the happy little chap of old. :(
 
Ah, poor Snowy, and what hard decisions may be coming up for you to have to make :-\ Am sending you a PM Sandra, but sorry to hear it's not better news.
 
I have just read this full thread i am really sorry to hear about Snowy I have a piggie called Snowy aswell but its a sow :)

i will keep my fingers crossed for you i hope he gets better soon and u get some good news soon O0
 
Hi all, I haven't been around much for the last couple of days but thought I would give you the latest update on Snowy. After my visit to the vet on Tuesday I came home feeling very down and upset. Feeding my boy I couldn't believe that it was time to give up on him, he's such a fiesty little guy. Having mulled things over all day I finally put in a call to Vedra at CCT to see if she could see Snowy. She got back to me and we spent the day in Huntingdon yesterday.

Vedra checked Snowy over on arrival and within the first 10 minutes of us being there she had trimmed all his teeth, incisors and molars – doesn’t say much for the vets check up does it! She said that he has reverse malocclusion and that at some point he has broken his incisors and they have grown so that the top ones come down inside the bottom ones. This has meant that he hasn’t been able to eat on his molars properly and hence the problem. I’m not aware of him having ever broken his teeth, but Vedra said they can do it simply by biting on the bars of the cage!

He also has oral Thrush, which I asked the vet about on Tuesday and he dismissed it. Vedra took a battery of tests and his x-ray showed that he has no bladder stones, which is great news, but his urine was very acidic, which she thinks is caused by the fungal infection. I asked where he could have picked up Thrush and she said that fungal spores could well have been in the hay (despite buying good quality horse hay) and because he was a bit run down the infection got a hold.

We have a huge array of medicines, both homeopathic and conventional to try over the next week or so. She has doubled his dose of Rimadyl for pain relief and has introduced re-hydration fluid, oral gel for his Thrush and a cystitis remedy (she thinks the bladder problems have been caused by the mouth infection, i.e. bad bugs have got into his system and set off a cystitis attack, she said he was a bit sore around his "manhood"). She’s not sure whether the tooth work will do the trick long term as it’s difficult to say how long he’s had the problem so we may be faced with having to have his teeth re-trimmed.

I explained my vet’s view that if there is no improvement by next week he recommended PTS and she was horrified. :tickedoff: My aim now is obviously to get Snowy eating by himself and he needs to gain around 1lb in weight.

I’m so pleased I went, Snowy's obviously not out of the woods yet, but I do feel a bit happier knowing I am doing the right thing giving him a bit longer. I cut some grass for the boys this morning and he wheeked with joy when I walked in with it, being a big softy it brought tears to my eyes! He very gingerly picked some grass up and actually managed to eat a tiny bit - he ended up with a green beard :).

Thanks again for all your support, will let you know how things go over the next few days.
 
Hi, I'm so glad Vedra has found the problem, it could also have been because 'old food' was in his mouth if you were using good hay so don't beat yourself up about it :) You know if it was good or not :)

Thinking about it Jacky sends her teeth problem piggies to Chris and Titch in Sussex (Cavies Castle), if thats any nearer than Huntingdon talk to her or Vedra about them.

Did you get the Neem toothpaste? It will help ;)
 
Going to talk to Chrissie tomorrow. Having spent all day yesterday pounding the roads between Kent and Cambridgeshire I had to catch up with loads of work today so haven't been near my home pc until now!

I suspect you are right Karen, the hay I buy is generally of a good quality, I guess stale food could quite easily have got trapped in his mouth.

I have just put Snowy in a large C&C with his two companions in one half and he's in the other. Trouble is he immediately started biting the bars trying to get to them :(. I've had to build up the divider with some spare correx so he can smell the boys but not see them, he's now got the hump with me! I hope to be able to reintroduce the three, but want to keep Snowy quiet for a few more days, with the weekend approaching the girls and I can give the three of them plenty of free range floor time - one piggy each to keep an eye on ;)
 
I'm glad to hear some good news for you hopefully he will get his teeth and everything else sorted out soon ;)

and be a happy little piggie :D
 
OK I now have another problem with Snowy :(.

Quick update:-

Incisors and molars trimmed by Vedra last Wednesday (16.01.08) due to reverse maloclussion
Medication
0.7ml Septrin daily
1/4 Rimadyl tablet twice daily
1/4 Dida tablet twice daily (to combat thrush/candida)
Bio Lapis
0.3ml twice daily Daktarin oral gel
50ml plus of Cavy Cuisine/Recovery daily
Water syringed daily

Snowy is still not eating by himself, he has had the tiniest bit of grass and cue but that's about all. He sniffs around in the food bowl, but still isn't eating alone. I have noticed that one of his bottom incisors has already started to re-grow slanted.

He is in one half of a C&C indoors (his two cagemates are in the other half), bedded on Vetbed and towels. He is passing urine and pooing, although the latter is quite soft.

His breathing has become very rattly this morning, but despite this he is still taking his Cavy Cuisine via the syringe. I haven't knowingly syringe fed/watered him too quickly, thus causing him to aspirate?

We are due at the vets on Wednesday morning - am seeing a different vet at the practice, but his colleague recommended pts if no improvement by this week. Any advice please?
 
As syou are a very experienced piggy owner,I doubt you have put fluid into the lungs by careless feeding.( aspirate by the way means to draw fluid off,not to put it in).If there is a chest infection brewing he is already on Septrin,so not much else you can do except maybe try Sudafed .He is already on a heavy drug regime tho,so might be better to check with the vet.

If the inscissors are overgrowing again it is possible that the molars are overgrowing as well.As you probably know anyway,the teeth can overgrow in days.
 
Thanks for that Mary - you don't know how much better your comments made me feel. I am pretty sure I haven't feed/watered him too quickly. I didn't think I'd got "aspirate" right, sorry rushing to post before heading off for a telephone meeting! Funnily enough Snowy's breathing has returned to near normal and he has just scoffed a very good amount of syringed Cavy Cuisine ?. I am beginning to wonder whether he had actually managed to eat a little of his normal dry food or hay and maybe it had scratched his throat? (I had this happen to a sow and again her breathing returned to normal within hours).

I realise that the teeth can overgrow very quickly, Vedra did say he might well need to have them trimmed again. :( I have been given the name of a local lady (by Vedra) who can at least check his teeth for me, I think I need to give her a call and then I will be able to make a decision as to whether I need to get them done again.

For future reference Mary, what dose of Sudafed would you give and how often?

Snowy is in one half of a C&C cage, with his two cage mates in the other half. He is sitting right up against the dividing grid trying to get at the boys, he is obviously missing them. The three boys have been out for floor time in the playroom together without any ructions etc., would it be worth trying to remove the divider to see if being with them bucks him up at all - bearing in mind I am feeding him by hand constantly so he wouldn't miss out on grub at food time?
 
One side of his molars is overgrown and he needs to see Vedra or someone again to have them looked, get him back there asap, they may need filing for a while before they 'come right'.

Edit: I believe Sudofed contains sugars/sweeteners (syrup = sugar), I use Bisolvon a veterinary product that you syringe into the mouth when mixed with water. Sudofed is good for emergencies.
 
karenrgpr said:
One side of his molars is overgrown and he needs to see Vedra or someone again to have them looked, get him back there asap, they may need filing for a while before they 'come right'.
Click to expand...

Thanks Karen, that's what I was worried about. Can feel some phone bashing coming up!
 
Phone bashing? It happens, its not Vedra's (or whoevers) fault, part of the process :)
 
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