Keeping lots of guinea pigs?

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Hi sparky7 where abouts in north west England are you as sokel has rescue pigs and he is from cumbria we were going to get a couple of rescue pigs from him but our new addition we got from our local pet shop gave all our wee pigs mites he was even going to meet us half way at carlisle as we are in dumfries he could help you out if he is close enough hope all goes well with your plans they sound very good free range pigs that will be very happy running around outside some wee pigs will not even get any floor time and be kept in a hutch all year round all the best with your plans . O0 O0


here is a link to sokel i hope

http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12934.0

pigsdad O0 O0 O0
 
Re mice, I have had guineas from people that were attacked by mice and some that were unable to be kept anymore because they were attracting mice. People on the board have had the same problem.
 
Les - welcome to the forum.

I love the idea of free range guineas and can totally understand your wish to do this. It's much more natural than them living in the small hutches and inside cages which are sold in the petshop. I have 2 groups of guineas - 5 girls and 3 boys and they've got very large pens or live in a large aviary when the weather is nice. But (bet you knew there'd be a but!) I totally agree with what everyone else has said on here.

I don't cuddle my guineas regularly - I get loads of pleasure just watching them interact, although I am picking up my 3 young boys a lot so they get more used to me. Even though you're not cuddling them though, they still need very careful watching for health issues, and that means picking them up regularly to check them over and just watching them to make sure they're eating etc. Will you be able to do this if they're outside?

Also consider vet bills - these can be phenomenal, and from experience they all come together. A couple of years ago I spent £250 on 2 guineas within a month or so. Are you willing and able to pay for this.

I wouldn't keep them outside - but I know everyone's opinions differ on this. My personal experience is that mine were kept loose in a shed, with infra red lighting at night. They loved the light but it couldn't be kept on all the time and when it wasn't on the guineas were hunched up and didn't interact much. Now they're inside they are really active and definitely much healthier, I only have to look at them to see that. Sorry if this upsets anyone but I wouldn't even contemplate keeping them outside in the north west of england - I'm in the mild south west and it still gets bitterly cold. The damp will make them unhealthy and miserable.

I can also understand wanting to have babies. Some of the members on here may remember my desparation to get a pregnant rescue guinea - it took months, and I now have 3 gorgeous boys but the extra work they've created is huge - separate living accommodation well away from the girls. It saddens me when I hear of breeding, unless it's a one-off and all the babies are kept.

Anyway, sorry to be negative. I really hope you reach a solution.
 
If its authority you are going to take notice of (you mentioned vets) the highest 'authority' on guinea pigs is Vedra Stanley-Spatcher FMBAR (I think LOL!). She is the head of the cambridge Cavy Trust and sees far more guins than most vets and keeps them herself. There rae others, I believe, as knowledgable as her, but they don't have letters after their names. :)

07721 026401 to text/phone your message, contact: Vedra. :)

By the way, one of the Animal Welfare regs is: Protection from and treatment of, illness and injury.
 
  • sparky7 said:
    • is there really any evidence that the guineas are likely to be attacked or infected by visiting mice etc?
    • It sounds like the vet does not provide and artificial heating in the winter: is that correct?
    • Does the vet have a top cover, or roof, etc, to the area where her guineas roam?
    • Is there a minimum number that would be required for them to keep each other warm and sociable?
    Click to expand...

I don't have any specific details regarding her herd & thankfully i've had no need to visit her for a few months  :)
I can only say she never mentioned anything about artificial heating, that's not to say she doesn't have any, tho' did say her hutches were made from 2" thick wood not the "petshop" hutches
As for her garden being netted, all i know about where the piggies free-range is that it's a shaded part of her garden where her succulents grow
I don't know about mice but i have had experience of rats in my shed.  They didn't get into my piggies hutches but did chew their bottles because they couldn't get to the food.  i would imagine a rat would inflict a very nasty bite on a piggy & with all the disease they carry............
Any rodent would be attracted by the food, wether mice would attack i don't know but a friend of mine has had to re-home her piggies because her house & garden became infested. :(
 
Hello Everyone!

We really appreciate all the information that is now coming from you all: in only 2 days we have learnt a lot.

The bottom line here is that we would very much like to make this work. I can see that there are a number of serious potential problems that we need to be able to deal with:
  • Heating. The infra red lighting sounds like it may be the answer to cold winter days and nights, as long as it's left on as and when necessary
  • Mice/Rats. I wonder whether it is possible to construct the run to ensure that they are kept out. In fact I doubt it, so the question is whether any other measures can be taken to protect the guineas from the injuries/diseases that would result
  • Breeding. I think this one is simple: we won't breed!
  • Vet bills. Difficult to predict, this: or is it? We would be happy to spend £a few hundred from time to time - but not every month, and not £a few thousand!

These seems to be the main issues, I think. It is very reassuring to find that there are some experienced guinea keepers who understand our interest in establishing a large, outdoor colony and who have information to help us. I know that for many our aspiratiion may seem irresponsible and just plain wrong, but I hope they will see that we are not going into this recklessly.

One question we have that will probably surprise many is this: is it OK for our guineas to share accommodation with our ducks? We have 5 ducks - 2 of which hatched last week! They have free range of the garden during the day, and retire to the 'duck house' (formerly the Wendy House!) every night. The proposed site of the big guinea run is next to the duck house, and I was wondering whether or not to provide an access for the guineas into the duck house.

Perhaps I should also add that we also have a ~50 year old tortoise, and a large dog (curly coated retreiver), who both roam at will in the garden and have no interest whatsoever in the ducks or the guineas. Oh - and did I mention that we have a large tropical fish tank with 2 Oscars, and another with various Malawis?

Thanks to everyone again.
Les
 
Hi, if you were irresponsible you wouldn't be asking the q's :)

Guins should not be mixed with animals of other varieties, particularly birds and including ducks.

Yes you can treat injuries, would most likely be abscesses and need lancing (sometimes every day, a vet would do this) then flushing. I flush with Baytril (an antibiotic) I also give antibiotics orally- thats a lot of toxins and you don't want them in the bloodstream. Flushing would be done at least twice daily then after a while you may be able to cut back to once. There are no injections for guineas for prevention.

Skin problems: Guineas exposed to damp conditions (they have not evolved to cope with our humid climate) are more susceptible to fungal probs. In addition to this if you're not handling the pigs you won't pick this up early- hence the need for handling or at least definitely being able to check them over, can't do that if they are always under a hutch :)
Guineas that are exposed to the elements may be more prone to having mites 'kick in'. All guineas carry mites and when the guin is stressed (fighting off cold/illness) then they will take hold, again you will not notice till quite late because they are not handled so more treatments (Gorgeous Guineas Melts and Ivermectin) is needed.

Parasites: Guineas will be more prone to picking up parasites from overgrazed grass as the run is statutory and they are in it all the time- no rotation, I would have a shed to let the grass recover and the guineas still have the exercise but you don't seem keen? :)

Vitamin D: They'll get lots of this, one benefit of being kept this way :)

Guineas vet bills can run into hundreds. An op is not much change from £100 including x-rays. Or you can have them put to sleep, thats cheaper. I thought they were going to fend for themselves? Bladderstones are common in guineas and after the op its advisable to give water (40ml) by syringe daily to prevent more from forming. Re health issues read the Health and Illness board :)
 
I think it's great that you're tackling each problem and coming up with solutions. I don't think you can beat a free range herd so I can really understand why you want to do it. Just this afternoon I was watching my 3 boys having such a great time in their aviary. They go in this in the summer when it's warm and have access to a hutch if it rains or turns chilly.

Re the rat/mice problem. We've rat-proofed the aviary - did this by digging down all the way round and inserting metal grids (got them free from Focus - old shelving!) so a rat would have to burrow very deep to get in, then all the way round the edge we've laid bricks or rocks for extra protection. They can get onto the rocks, they're only flat and low and it looks great to see them in a more natural environment. I check it all regularly so would know if anything had been chewed or if the aviary frame had rotted. I know that mice do get in, I can't see any way round this, they can get in such teeny spaces. We've always had mice in the garden and shed (and house!) but not loads and loads of them. They don't ever seem to have caused problems to the guineas, but reading on here others have.

There is an advantage of you having a dog in that it will deter foxes, cats and rats in the garden. We've 2 dogs and they love the guineas, either wash them or ignore them depending on their mood!

Please keep us posted, it's an interesting project.
 
Thanks for all this further info. Having said that I though that the time for a decision was upon us, we're struggling to make it! Still a few things to weigh up: most of the issues we can deal with I think, but the mice, and the cost of food & vets, are probably beyond our control. So the jury is still out ...
I'll let you know the verdict when the return!
Thanks again
Les
 
As a rescue, I was called to a home recently by a lady who had enjoyed a free range herd for just over 2 years, she had plenty of shelter for them and the large garden had been fox/cat proofed and the set up had obviously had some thought put into it at the beginning. They had lived as 'wild' guinea pigs throughout that time and had been allowed to breed at will. It appears that there had been alot of 'natural wastage' as she put it ie many baby deaths. She considered that they had been looked after, as much as she was able to look after 'feral' guinea pigs. ie she fed them. (she had little choice as there was not a blade of grass left in the whole garden)

They had never been handled as she simply couldn't catch any of them, she wasn't totally sure how many she had, she wasn't sure what state of health they were all in. The few babies she had managed to catch she had homed to friends and family. I suppose what I'm saying is that she just lost touch with them.

Her circumstances had changed now and she was returning to a more conventional way of keeping them in addition she said she never saw them as they were so wild they just hid when she was around. They no longer gave her the pleasure she had expected to gain from seeing them free to do as they chose.

So I have taken in a few for her, I have to say they are all healthy and very fit but that's all I can say for them. These pigs are just so wild, they have never experienced the touch of a human and the move to rescue has caused them a great deal of stress and anxiety. They are not going to be easy to rehome and it is going to take a very long time to tame them. Medicating a really wild piggie is not a practice for the faint hearted! I rescue and rehome feral kittens and this is a similar situation.

I think in order to put this into practice a person has to be of a certain mindset, almost a farmer perhaps, viewing them as livestock, accepting that there will be casualties along the way and without any of the sentimental stuff getting in the way. As to whether the guinea pigs gain anything from it in my experience no they don't. To have an animal trust a human has to be the greatest compliment, it works for the benefit of both parties, the human gets the pleasure the guinea pig gets a life without suffering, no wild animal would naturally trust a human, that honour has to be worked at. I can understand a desire to attempt to manage a wild colony but my piggies have a near natural life in a more managed way, free ranging is not for me.

Speaking as a rescue too, I'm not really sure whether I would be prepared to allow any of 'my piggies' to live that kind of life anyway, can't speak for others of course. I expect my rescues to go onto a better and brighter future, I'm not convinced that such a set up would be delivering that.
 
Well said. I have seen people with larger groups/colonies of pigs that keep up the handling and I think this is a super situation. With a good level of trust it's not a problem to just pick up a pig at will and examine it for illness/injury. I don't think it's possible to be able to do that with "semi-feral" pigs.
 
I applaud you on your decision not to breed Les and I think it is fabulous that you have consulted members of th forum before going ahead. I think too many people think about what they would like and don't think enough about the welfare of the animal/animals they have chosen to make part of their families.

I have 4 rescue cats, 4 rescue pigs (neutered boar living with 3 females) and 8 rescue neutered bunnies living in male/female pairs all these animals were once a good idea to somebody and through no fault of their own ended up in rescues.I love them all dearly and will always put them first because now they are in their forever homes.

Rabswood (Michelle)
 
Why not start out with the size of enclosure you had planned but a smaller number of pigs - say 7 or 8 and see how it goes? It will give you a better idea of the work and money involved and the difficulties of keeping a large group. You could always add to them later and it would be easier to keep track of things that way since you would have already "got to know" the initial group and their individual personalittes and habits.
Also, if you are having trouble tracking down larger numbers of rescue guineas in your area then you could always try the freeasds, preloved etc - there are often "free to good home" guineas and ones that are being sold off "cheap" ( :-\) by breeders and so on that are in real need of a home.
 
My 3 guinea pigs run free,they have a secure hutch and escape proof run,they are not handled much but are tame enough to be hand fed!They will be going into the shed soon,but will come out on nice sunny days or in the shelter of the kids little plastic play house!They also share the pen with 2 rabbits (neutered buck & doe) and pet hen all get on really well.I also live in the north east!They are happy and healthy.Popcorning all the time! O0 but mine is on a small scale to what you are suggesting, so good luck with your plans.
 
Hello All

I really hadn't appreciated what I might be getting into with this! Actually, what I hadn't appreciated was that there are lots of people with extensive, wide ranging experience of keeping guineas - and that there is a forum where I am able to communicate and learn from these people. It has to be said that the internet, and forums such as this, are a GOOD THING!

One comment I will make is that I have received a couple of 'PMs' from people who have kept guineas in a similar way to that which we are contemplating: these people have PM'd me because they feel that if they were to 'go public' they would be harshly criticised because their way is not the conventional way. That seems a shame to me. In fact I had gained the impression from most of the contributors to this thread that they did understand - and agree - that what I was suggesting was in fact perfectly reasonable: but there does remain the impression that one or two contributors are confusing their own preferred style of 'guinea care' with what is actually necessary for the well-being of the animals.

Anyway, I'm sure that we have now had all the information that we could have wished for in order to inform a decision, and I really am extremely grateful for that. I think we are now likely to proceed with our plan to establish a colony along the following lines:
  • The run will be ~30 x 8 feet, and will include a small shed (accessed via cat-flap) which will have a mains electricity supply to allow for heating in the winter. There will also be 1 or 2 smaller kennels to provide alternative shelter.
  • Initially about 75% of the run will be grassed, and we would like to maintain this if possible (by seeding if that works). Otherwise, once the grass has all gone, we will provide hay and - in the summer - cut grass from the neighbours (and of course various greens and other veg from the local farm shop)
  • The colony will initially comprise our current 2 females plus one of our males - once he has been neutered! We will probably try to put 2 of our males (both neutered) in there and see if that works: the 2 of them have been living together in a cage right next to the females cage for a few months now (with daily transfers to separate small runs in the garden), and there have been no major aggression issues, so maybe this will work: but we will only try this initially under close supervision as I have heard enough stories about what may well happen!
  • The initial colony will also include further females, ideally from rescues otherwise from pet shops, until we have a total of 8-10 guineas.
  • Once we have had the colony of 8-10 running successfully for a few months we will hope to build it up, probably to around 15 - but that's a guess!

And that's about it ... except that I'm still not sure about how much effort to go to in order to rat-proof and/or cat/fox-proof the run. I have heard from one or two people who have had free range guineas and have not suffered casualties from these predators - and of course there are others who have. I have to say that I am very tempted to see if we can join the former group.

So that's where we are at, desperate to get on with it, hoping that there are no major issues that we have overlooked. As ever, we would be very grateful for anyone's further thoughts on our project.

Many thanks
Les
 
I will be very interested to hear how this all works out - I hope it goes well!
 
Just a thought, but you mention that you will be getting rescues and then possibly topping up with pet store piggies - if I may make a suggestion, how about rescueing a handful first before the petshop pigs, see how you get on, then if you still want to later, add more rescues when they become available? It seems an awful shame to deprive a deserving rescue piggie of a home just because you want to get 'stocked up' quicker?
 
Boureki
Yes, I can see that: I guess it all depends on the availability of any rescues within a reasonable distance of us. We live on the Wirral, Merseyside: does anyone know of any rescues in this neck of the woods?
Les
 
http://www.guineasforlife.bravehost.com/ are in Merseyside apparently, a few members on this forum have rehomed from them, Lymm GP Rescue are also up there http://www.lymmguineapigrescue.co.uk/testn.htm I don't know how far you are from Manchester, but there are Rodent Rescue 0161 724 6048 and Guinea Pig and Rabbit Rescue [email protected] the last two don't seem to have websites, so I'm not sure if they are still rescuing. On the rescue board on this forum there are often members who need to rehome as well,so it's worth looking around a bit. Some further out rescues will travel part way to meet you as well. Even if these rescues do not have many in at the moment, I would keep checking as the cold weather will often increase the amount of people giving up their animals.
 
Hi Les,

I'm in Liverpool and there aren't many rescues around here check this out http://www.guineapigrehome.org.uk/gp/centres.asp I have rung Lymm in the past and they never get back to you which is kind of off putting. I think there is one in Conway if you are prepared to travel. Personally I'd travel all over the North West for my pigs and treat it as a day out! :)

Good luck with it,

Louise
x
 
Louise, that's how we view it when we travel for our rescues, as a bit of a drive! ( I think we need to get out more)

I know it's frustrating when rescues don't get back straight away, but please bear in mind that most small animal ones are run from homes in people's spare time, so if you can hold on, don't get fed up of waiting, they want people to rehome, so don't give up :)
 
Les if you live anywhere near Garstang Lancashire come and see my piggies and their set up ,might give you some ideas.Like you I like my piggies to have as much space and as natural alife as possible without breeding.
 
yeah the males may like each other but i must warn you that once there are females there they may fight each other to see whos boss etc just to warn you in advance as only 1 can become the boss >:D
 
Christine

Thanks for the offer. We are a little way from Garstang (Hoylake, Wirral), but may get up there some time. In the meantime could I ask you some questions:

  • How many guineas do you have?
  • How big is their outside run?
  • Is there a roof over their outside run?
  • Have you had significant problems with mice/rats/cats/foxes/other?
  • Do you have grass (or anything else!) growing in the run - faster than the guineas eat it?
  • Do you have artificial heating in any hutches etc in the run?
  • How often do you have to clean up the droppings in the run, and how long does it take (must be very difficult if they are on grass)?
  • How much do you spend on vet bills in, say, an average 3 months?

Sorry about the list!

Thanks
Les
 
Sounding much better! You are having a heated shed :) A friend keeps her guineas in a big aviary (without birds!) and has just doubled up the mesh to keep out rats and mice- beware though mice are good climbers ::)

I would advise having several varieties of grass in there as they respond differently to different conditions. For grass in wet weather you should have Rye (which isa bit rich for guineas, but perfectly OK) for the dryer weather get some Orchard Grass and Timothy Grass. Chicory would be good too (the wild variety) it grows quickly and has lots of vits and minerals :) Howabout dividing the area so grazing can be rotated :)
 
I started keeping chickens several years ago and faced the same dilemmas as yourself. Although completely different animals (obviously!) their requirements are very similar. ( I have 12)

The area my hens enjoy has evolved over the course of time to accomodate them and make their environment as good as it could be. I have planted apple trees in the area to make sure that over head buzzards etc don't get a chance, I also put in a slabbed area too as I realised they just didn't have enough 'dry' areas and are very susceptible to the wet as guinea pigs are. Adequate drainage is essential.

I put down non slip matting too for the humans to prevent creating a mud bath where we walk in and out. I made sure that the area under the shelter and the house was slabbed too as it was the most likely place for rats to nest. The house is raised above the floor by about 12" aswell to give the hens somewhere else to shelter. Regarding the poo situation ......... this is picked up 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. Sour ground is not good for any animal and I think they will probably poo quicker than it can break down. That is certainly the case with the chickens....... who can poo for England ... as piggies do too ;D

It's difficult to cover every eventuality, but shelter from wind and rain is essential. A dry area other than their house would be good too. The food is often the thing that attracts rats and my food containers are lifted up last thing every night and put down first thing every morning, absolutely every thing is stored in rat proof bins. I live on the edge of farmland and have never once had a rat problem yet (touch wood) .... 'know your enemy' a farmer once told me and it's true, the more you find out about rats the more you can prevent them turning up.

Anyway as Karen said, it all sounds good, much better than your original post. I am pleased you have given it more thought. It sounds more 'managed' now rather than all wild and left to do their own thing which is what I personally found so naiive with your initial idea. In particular the breeding side of things, the guinea pigs welfare didn't appear to be a priority. It's a wonderful idea giving them lots of space but not very clever if they are never checked for health problems. The animal rescues up and down the country work their socks off because people put their own 'wants' before the animals 'needs'. It is only when the majority of people accept the link between breeding (in whatever form) and the sheer number in rescue (many dreadfully neglected) that their future will be brighter. Sadly in my experience people who breed ( whether for themselves or to sell) rarely see the wider implications of their actions. (soap box away now ;D)

Anyway, I'm sure many of us will watch with interest. ( in your original post you mentioned you have 3 boars, what's happening with all 3?)


Just as a by the by ................... was talking to a chap a few weeks ago that fenced and fox proofed an acre of ground just over 5 years ago. He just left his guinea pigs to run wild in that acre. He said they burrowed and lived underground most of the time. He only fed them in the winter with hay as the acre had plenty to offer them and he never cut the grass either.

He had up to about 60 at any one time. It appears the herd self selected the boars that would breed, the others just got on with being guinea pigs ! He doesn't know how many he has left now, perhaps just a dozen or so. So their wild life didn't last very long. ? Not for sentimental souls though!
 
Just as a by the by ................... was talking to a chap a few weeks ago that fenced and fox proofed an acre of ground just over 5 years ago. He just left his guinea pigs to run wild in that acre. He said they burrowed and lived underground most of the time. He only fed them in the winter with hay as the acre had plenty to offer them and he never cut the grass either.

He had up to about 60 at any one time. It appears the herd self selected the boars that would breed, the others just got on with being guinea pigs ! He doesn't know how many he has left now, perhaps just a dozen or so. So their wild life didn't last very long. Not for sentimental souls though!

That sounds really interesting, i would love to have seen how quickly these little guys adapted back to being wild, did he handle them?, and what part of the country does he live in, probable the closest you will get to a wild herd ever, i wonder how clos there behaviour mimicked there ancestors, did they sing out the warnings when a bird flew over?

them
 
I know he didn't handle them as they lived underground most of the time, he did admit he never knew if they were ill or anything. These were truly wild ! He just let nature take it's course. There lifespan seemed quite short to me.

I wondered if he had problems with rats though and he said he never did as the guinea pigs used to "see them off" ! Also he never put conventional food out for them so it wouldn't attract the rats anyway. The grass was usually about 1' high so it kept the temperature on the groung higher than normal.


I think he started off with quite a few, too many to put in hutches he felt and decided to take this route. The number got up to 60+ I suppose because of the breeding though I'm sure many didn't survive into adulthood.
 
Lez,
Answers to your questions,here goes-
*I have 6 sows and two boars both neutered.
*The outside run is 15 feet square.
*There is no roof ,but is sheltered by a high hawthorn hedge at one side and a6ft trellis at the other .and is up against the garage wall so only one side is completely open .
*Though we live in a country area no probs so far with foxes etc.,we have 3 labradors so that tends to keep cats away.
At this time of year pigs eat grass faster than it grows, so have covered the grass with aubiose, which will soften over the winter when pigs are indoors and will allow new grass to grow through in the spring I hope!
Thre is a7x5 shed in the run with cat flap entry and a heat and light as used in pig pens real pigs that is!
The grass is raked 2 or3 times aweek .
Darent tell you about vets bills though I have been very lucky so far healthy little pigs
except one had to have eye removed due to hay seed getting stuck behind the eye that cost £100.
That is why you need to keep close watch on them.They are healthy little animals but quite delicate.
Regards Christine,ps Iam an oap so you probably think I am potty for keeping piggies but I love them.
 
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