GP showed signs of improvement but back to being lethargic

[KikiKaka]

We gave her a dose of Metacam and Emeprid which seemed to perk her up - we told our vet who has now prescribed more.

We noticed a tiny amount of blood coating a couple of poops this morning - not a huge amount but obviously still concerning! The vet advised that it could be from straining and to keep monitoring it - does this seem reasonable or does she need to be seen to immediately? The soonest appointment they have is tomorrow.

 

[Wiebke]

Would it be advisable to give her some Metacam to see if that helps alleviate the potential inflammation causing this? We have dog Metacam from a recent vet visit with some teeth issues for our dog, so it's not prescribed for her but I'm really at a loss as to what else I can do.

Please continue with the syringe feed and give her emeprid and metacam if you still have some. If you can, syringe her poo soup or give her some extra probiotics but not at the same time as the syringe feed.

Make sure that you offer her water to drink voluntarily from your syringe to account for the poos being looser but she is not at any major risk of dehydration because she gets water from your feed and you are still not dealing with acute runny diarrhea from a bug, just very loose poos caused by an overreaction by the gut microbiome.

I appreciate that is not pleasant but it is still not a life or death emergency and she is still getting enough feed into her to produce the volume of poos. It doesn't look any better but it also doesn't look really worse to me than yesterday. There are no gut drugs for guinea pigs that can firm up the poos with the snap of a finger. You have to wait for the gut to settle down essentially.

 

[KikiKaka]

Please continue with the syringe feed and give her emeprid and metacam if you still have some. If you can, syringe her poo soup or give her some extra probiotics but not at the same time as the syringe feed.

Make sure that you offer her water to drink voluntarily from your syringe to account for the poos being looser but she is not at any major risk of dehydration because she gets water from your feed and you are still not dealing with acute runny diarrhea from a bug, just very loose poos caused by an overreaction by the gut microbiome.

I appreciate that is not pleasant but it is still not a life or death emergency and she is still getting enough feed into her to produce the volume of poos. It doesn't look any better but it also doesn't look really worse to me than yesterday. There are no gut drugs for guinea pigs that can firm up the poos with the snap of a finger. You have to wait for the gut to settle down essentially.

She's done some relatively healthy looking poops this morning amazingly! There was a small coating of blood on a couple of her poops as mentioned above but the vet didn't seem too concerned when I mentioned it - would you be inclined to agree? Slightly worried that it could be something that should be taken seriously by them but isn't, so hoping you might be able to put my fears at ease!

 

[Wiebke]

She's done some relatively healthy looking poops this morning amazingly! There was a small coating of blood on a couple of her poops as mentioned above but the vet didn't seem too concerned when I mentioned it - would you be inclined to agree? Slightly worried that it could be something that should be taken seriously by them but isn't, so hoping you might be able to put my fears at ease!

Hi

You can mention the blood again next time you see your vet but your main job is settling down the microbiome right now. They have the training and hands-on access/knowledge of your case to put it into perspective that I lack.

Focus on the main job you can do something about. But it is great that the microbiome is settling down again and is firming up. It means that it is just some sensitivity of the gut microbiome you are dealing with at the moment. I would recoomend that you wait a few days more with the next very cautious attempt at fresh veg. You could consider a small sprinkle of dry forage and start with it more in the way of a treat pinch.

 

[KikiKaka]

Poops are still healthy! There's a tiny bit of redness in her pee from just now, but I'm not sure if it's porphyrins or potentially just residual blood that's washed away from her fur from earlier on? We also gave her a small piece of tomato before the GI issues started again, so wondering if it may be tinted from that? Sorry to keep coming back with more questions!

 

[Wiebke]

Poops are still healthy! There's a tiny bit of redness in her pee from just now, but I'm not sure if it's porphyrins or potentially just residual blood that's washed away from her fur from earlier on? We also gave her a small piece of tomato before the GI issues started again, so wondering if it may be tinted from that? Sorry to keep coming back with more questions!

Hi

I would suspect that the redness has the same source and that it could come from the urinary tract and not the digestive tract. Only testing can tell you whether there is actual blood or not.

But great that the poos are going back to normal now and they are a very nice plumpness and size indeed! Just what you want to see with a minor tummy upset.

 

[KikiKaka]

Hi

I would suspect that the redness has the same source and that it could come from the urinary tract and not the digestive tract. Only testing can tell you whether there is actual blood or not.

But great that the poos are going back to normal now and they are a very nice plumpness and size indeed! Just what you want to see with a minor tummy upset.

Thank you! So no immediate major cause for concern/emergency in the ever so slightly tint to the pee? Just a case of monitor to see whether it subsides or gets wore?

 

[KikiKaka]

Hi all, if she's getting hay, Dual Care, and Emeraid, is that nutritionally complete? She hasn't had fresh veg since last Saturday and I don't plan to give her any until Sunday (seeing how she goes now that we've stopped the medicine again), but I'm concerned about her not getting everything she needs.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Hi all, if she's getting hay, Dual Care, and Emeraid, is that nutritionally complete? She hasn't had fresh veg since last Saturday and I don't plan to give her any until Sunday (seeing how she goes now that we've stopped the medicine again), but I'm concerned about her not getting everything she needs.

She is getting everything she needs. Hay is their main diet and the support feeds replicate that and are fortified

 

[KikiKaka]

She is getting everything she needs. Hay is their main diet and the support feeds replicate that and are fortified

Ok, thank you! One more question, can they get any kind of withdrawal symptoms from Metacam or Emeprid? We did her last dose at 1am this morning, and she now seems a little sleepy/lethargic, but I'm not sure if that's just me being paranoid.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Ok, thank you! One more question, can they get any kind of withdrawal symptoms from Metacam or Emeprid? We did her last dose at 1am this morning, and she now seems a little sleepy/lethargic, but I'm not sure if that's just me being paranoid.

No but if the course ends and she still needs them then any pain will return etc so you will see signs of that

 

[KikiKaka]

No but if the course ends and she still needs them then any pain will return etc so you will see signs of that

Yup, that unfortunately seems to be what's happening - 36 hours since her last dose and she's back to not grazing...

 

[KikiKaka]

We've put her back on the Metacam this morning - the plan is to a) see if she perks up while she's on this but not the Emeprid and b) get her in for an ultrasound and x-ray to see what's going on. The saga continues...

 

[Wiebke]

We've put her back on the Metacam this morning - the plan is to a) see if she perks up while she's on this but not the Emeprid and b) get her in for an ultrasound and x-ray to see what's going on. The saga continues...

I am very sorry.

 

[Piggies&buns]

We've put her back on the Metacam this morning - the plan is to a) see if she perks up while she's on this but not the Emeprid and b) get her in for an ultrasound and x-ray to see what's going on. The saga continues...

I hope you can find out what is going on

 

[KikiKaka]

Okay, another question I'm afraid! Is there any "normal" amount of liquid movement when pressing their stomach? There's a very quiet sloshing sound when I examine her, but only very very quiet - is this normal or is any amount of this a bad sign?

 

[KikiKaka]

We have her booked in for an ultrasound and x-ray tomorrow - the vet said the aim is to do it without anaesthetic but wasn't able to guarantee that she wouldn't need it. Would it be a general anaesthetic or just a small amount of sedation she's given? They want her in for observation for the entire day, but I'm concerned that GA would do her more harm than good.

 

[Wiebke]

We have her booked in for an ultrasound and x-ray tomorrow - the vet said the aim is to do it without anaesthetic but wasn't able to guarantee that she wouldn't need it. Would it be a general anaesthetic or just a small amount of sedation she's given? They want her in for observation for the entire day, but I'm concerned that GA would do her more harm than good.

For best results guinea pigs have to be often arranged in a somewhat unnatural and awkward position, which would be distressing for the piggy or impossible without sedation. How strong that is depends on the job and also on the frailty of a piggy. Believe me, no vet wants to risk any major problems if at all possible.

In your case, your vet will try to get away with without using it or at the worst as little as possible if the first way is not working out.

All the best.

 

[weepweeps]

Good luck at the vets

 

[KikiKaka]

Unfortunately the vet has confirmed the worst - kidney disease

Any care they can give would be palliative and she would have no quality of life, his suggestion was unfortunately to go the euthanasia route which as much as it pains us, we're inclined to agree with him.

As horrible as it is I'm so, so glad that there's nothing we could have done differently.

I guess my one final question is: with regard to ashes, are there any reputable places that can make jewellery, pendants, rings etc from them? There are a few results on the first page of Google, but none of them seem to be very trustworthy.

Thank you everyone for your help over the past month, particularly @Wiebke and @Piggies&buns.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m so sorry for the sad news. Sending you huge hugs.
You have done wonderfully for her. Letting her go is a final act of love.


I can’t answer your question about her ashes though - I bury my animals in large containers in my garden.

 

[weepweeps]

I’m so sorry you’ve had this diagnosis. Sending hugs to you.

 

[Wiebke]

Unfortunately the vet has confirmed the worst - kidney disease

Any care they can give would be palliative and she would have no quality of life, his suggestion was unfortunately to go the euthanasia route which as much as it pains us, we're inclined to agree with him.

As horrible as it is I'm so, so glad that there's nothing we could have done differently.

I guess my one final question is: with regard to ashes, are there any reputable places that can make jewellery, pendants, rings etc from them? There are a few results on the first page of Google, but none of them seem to be very trustworthy.

Thank you everyone for your help over the past month, particularly @Wiebke and @Piggies&buns.

BIG HUGS
I am so very sorry. I have always suspected something else underlying in play but I am sorry that it is something untreatable.

Kidneys and liver are organs where there is sadly no established effective treatment for guinea pigs. They are metabolising organs and work at a much quicker pace than ours so the slowing down meds for larger species don't really do the job. You are making the right decision. We can sadly never choose in which way the end comes; we can only give our best what they want from their lives: happy todays in good care and a loving home.

But you have done your very best and have not failed your precious girl in any way. Be sad but please do not feel bad. She couldn't have found a better home and a more dedicated and loving owner.

Unfortunately, I don't have an recommendations re. jewellery. I bury mine with a seasonal flower bouquet in large planters in the garden since I simply have too many piggies passing through my life.
End of Life and Bereavement Support: Practical Advice for Owners, Kids and Cavy Companions

 

[KikiKaka]

Thank you everyone! I think the close call we had a few weeks ago when this first started is helping me process it better than I would have done had it been sudden - and knowing that we did everything that we could and couldn't have done anything differently is a real saving grace. I don't think I could have forgiven myself if this could have been treated had we caught it a couple of months earlier, so as horrible as it sounds, knowing there's no treatment no matter when you catch it is providing some level of solace.

 

[KikiKaka]

This is a really horrible question to have to ask, but is it possible that the Metacam caused her kidney issues when she initially had gut stasis? I've read that it can cause renal toxicity in the longer term or if used in dehydrated guinea pigs, but I don't know if it can cause renal failure/enlarged kidneys.

 

[Wiebke]

This is a really horrible question to have to ask, but is it possible that the Metacam caused her kidney issues when she initially had gut stasis? I've read that it can cause renal toxicity in the longer term or if used in dehydrated guinea pigs, but I don't know if it can cause renal failure/enlarged kidneys.

Hi

In short: no. You have got it the wrong way round. It is much more likely that the kidney failure was one of the contributing factors to the GI stasis. If there is a slow bounce back from the stasis, then you can bet that something else is going in the body.

Kidney failure is actually pretty common in older piggies; I have certainly lost quite a few of mine to it and have currently my Carys going into it. I am keeping my fingers crossed that between her failing kidneys, her arthritis and the very warm weather she can hang on in there for another 3 weeks for her 6th birthday on 21st August.

Please be aware that what you are currently experiencing is the usual guilt/soul searching loop that characterises the onset of the grieving process. Please try not to second guess everything; it can become a pretty nasty rabbit hole that swallows up all the happiness you have shared and robs you of the good side of your piggy if you cannot get out of that pernicious mind loop that there must have been something you could have done to avoid the demise.