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GP showed signs of improvement but back to being lethargic

KikiKaka said:
She is, yes - she's currently taking:
Fibreplex - 3x a day (this is prebiotic and probiotic I believe)
Emeraid - as much as we can get her to take, ideally 4x 18ml a day according to the packet but we're struggling to get that much into her
Emeprid - 0.7ml 2x a day
Metacam Cat - 0.7ml 2x a day

I'm also offering water as regularly as she's willing to take it and have taken her off fresh veg as this seems to be the advice for stringy poop - happy to be corrected as she seems very jealous of her sister's basil and lettuce!
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Trying to get her to take 18mls in one sitting when she has no appetite is simply too much in one go.
40-60ml is emergency level where there is no appetite.
Ideally 60-90ml per day though but in a very unwell piggy it may simply not be possible.

You need to be feeding little and often - feed less in one go but feed her every 2-3 hours.
 
Ok, thank you - so something like 9ml every 3 hours would be okay, or 6ml every 2 hours? It seems like a LOT for her to be taking in, but both of those work out to the 72ml in a 24 hour period.
 
I've pencilled in the following feeds for the rest of the day - her last feed was at 2pm, we tried to get her to take 12ml but she was still full up from being fed at 10am - would it be possible for you to advise if this is okay to go ahead with please? It seems high, but I really don't want her to starve during the night!

7pm - 9ml
10pm - 9ml
12:30am - 9ml
2:30am - 9ml
 
KikiKaka said:
I've pencilled in the following feeds for the rest of the day - her last feed was at 2pm, we tried to get her to take 12ml but she was still full up from being fed at 10am - would it be possible for you to advise if this is okay to go ahead with please? It seems high, but I really don't want her to starve during the night!

7pm - 9ml
10pm - 9ml
12:30am - 9ml
2:30am - 9ml
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You need to get some sleep so feeding throughout the night is something you have to think about whether you can manage. You arent any good to her if you are exhausted.

It’s best not to get too hung up on amounts per feed but give her what she will take and then adjust throughout the day.
You also don’t need to get hung up on it being exactly 72ml each day - As I say, you are looking to keep her weight stable
 
I'm usually up until 2:30am and then get up at 8:30am-ish regardless so I'm happy to do it if it helps her! I'll keep that in mind and try to work something out.

One other question I had - is there any way to make sure her body temperature is warm enough? She has her Snugglesafe, snuggle sacks, hay etc, and I've tried to keep the room's ambient temperature higher than the rest of the house, but her ears still feel quite cold.
 
KikiKaka said:
I'm usually up until 2:30am and then get up at 8:30am-ish regardless so I'm happy to do it if it helps her! I'll keep that in mind and try to work something out.

One other question I had - is there any way to make sure her body temperature is warm enough? She has her Snugglesafe, snuggle sacks, hay etc, and I've tried to keep the room's ambient temperature higher than the rest of the house, but her ears still feel quite cold.
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Just keep her microwaveable head pad at half heat so it is warm but not hot and reheat more often; slip it under her favourite place to sit and sleep. I find that it is more effective that way because it is never too hot. If she is away from the pad, it means that she doesn't need it, so don't worry - ignoring a heat pad is actually a good sign.

You are doing fine in stabilising the weight. Don't get hung up on amounts, just try to get as much into her as she will take in each session and then adjust the feeding frequency accordingly.
 
Thank you both so, so much for all of the advice, and sorry for having so many questions! I just want to do what's best for her and get her through to the other side of this 😅

I'm really thinking the fire alarm event last Tuesday must have set her off and caused the initial stomach upset; I could be completely wrong but none of the three vets we've been to have seen anything particularly wrong with her, just that we should keep up with the feeding and medication to keep her on the mend.

Will post any updates or potentially be back with more questions, apologies in advance if that's the case!
 
KikiKaka said:
Thank you both so, so much for all of the advice, and sorry for having so many questions! I just want to do what's best for her and get her through to the other side of this 😅

I'm really thinking the fire alarm event last Tuesday must have set her off and caused the initial stomach upset; I could be completely wrong but none of the three vets we've been to have seen anything particularly wrong with her, just that we should keep up with the feeding and medication to keep her on the mend.

Will post any updates or potentially be back with more questions, apologies in advance if that's the case!
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We are here for both practical and moral support for as long as needed; apart from providing a friendly space for a lively community we are here not just for guinea pigs but their owners during a difficult time as well as our forum ethos. Not being part of social media does give us more freedom and control. :)

Please don't feel awkward about asking questions. Each of us has started out from scratch as well in their own time; we are here to share our experience, practical tips and insights we have learned along the way.
 
Quick update: when she refuses the Emeraid, it's seemingly not because she's full up but just because she doesn't like the stuff! She had a tiny amount of Emeraid just now before starting to spit it out, but the second I gave her some mushed pellets she was willing to take those.

Am I okay to mix and match to get whatever I can in her? Or should I just be feeding Emeraid, even if that means her overall intake is lower?
 
KikiKaka said:
Quick update: when she refuses the Emeraid, it's seemingly not because she's full up but just because she doesn't like the stuff! She had a tiny amount of Emeraid just now before starting to spit it out, but the second I gave her some mushed pellets she was willing to take those.

Am I okay to mix and match to get whatever I can in her? Or should I just be feeding Emeraid, even if that means her overall intake is lower?
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Give her what she will eat! No point in giving emeraid is she doesn’t like it - She cannot have lower intake.
Mushed pellets are fine to use, it’s just they have a bit of a lower fibre content than the recovery feeds.
 
Understood, thank you!

I'm not sure whether this is good/acceptable or not - she's happily accepting quite a lot of mushed pellets (around 25-30g over a 9 hour period), but her weight is still not great. Saturday morning she was at 611g, followed by a trip to the vet, then Sunday morning she was at 609g, then this morning she was at 601g. Is this still within fluctuation range?

She seems slightly better in herself - we saw her graze a tiny bit for the first time in ages yesterday, and she's going up to her water bottle and moving around a bit more. Just concerned about the drop in her weight, but I don't know if it's enough to be considered significant or if it's just a fluctuation.
 
One of my old piggys hated emeraid too. All the pigs ive ever had to syringe feed love recovery plus by science selective. I'm currently feeding my sick pig 5ml of it every 2 1/2 hours from 5.30am until 10pm.
 
Okay, very very good news! Her energy levels are way up, she's willingly drinking a LOT of water, did a tiny bit of grazing too.

One more question - she seems to absolutely LOVE the oats in the treat ball we have for her; from what I can tell this should be useful in getting her weight back up; is it okay to incorporate a small amount of pure oats into her recovery diet?
 
She's doing SO much better today - she's up to 638g now; I expect some of that to be food that's still digesting, but keeping her above 610g was very, very tricky for a while. The mucus in her poop has stopped, and despite still being a little dehydrated they're getting healthier by the hour!
 
I am pleased to see she is doing well. Yes you can feed her some oats if she likes them.
 
KikiKaka said:
She's doing SO much better today - she's up to 638g now; I expect some of that to be food that's still digesting, but keeping her above 610g was very, very tricky for a while. The mucus in her poop has stopped, and despite still being a little dehydrated they're getting healthier by the hour!
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I am so happy that she has turned a cover and is on the road of recovery now. Well done for you for sticking it out.
10g in weight is about the difference between a fully and an empty bladder.

I think this new guide I have written will help you understand better what each part of health monitoring does and how you can put things into the appropriate perspective. It works for all sizes and weights and not just for your 'average' piggy. Since skinnies have a much faster metabolism and need to eat more, you are more likely to see a small weight loss where haired piggies would be stable. And any weight loss from not eating is also going to happen faster and that bit more dramatically.
Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support
 
Okay, slightly tricky question and I completely understand if no one here is able to answer it!

We currently have two bottles with Emeprid in - one from the emergency vet, and another from the local vet we've now registered with. The given doses on each are different - 0.38ml once per day for the one from the emergency vet, and 0.63ml twice per day for the one from our local vet. Both vets gave us 6ml.

Unfortunately we've almost run out of the one given to us by our local vet; is it okay to switch her over to 0.63ml twice per day of the one from the emergency vet, or is it possible that the strengths of each one varies? I'm not sure if Emeprid is available in different strengths like Metacam is, or if it's a one-size-fits-all.

Thank you in advance!
 
KikiKaka said:
Okay, slightly tricky question and I completely understand if no one here is able to answer it!

We currently have two bottles with Emeprid in - one from the emergency vet, and another from the local vet we've now registered with. The given doses on each are different - 0.38ml once per day for the one from the emergency vet, and 0.63ml twice per day for the one from our local vet. Both vets gave us 6ml.

Unfortunately we've almost run out of the one given to us by our local vet; is it okay to switch her over to 0.63ml twice per day of the one from the emergency vet, or is it possible that the strengths of each one varies? I'm not sure if Emeprid is available in different strengths like Metacam is, or if it's a one-size-fits-all.

Thank you in advance!
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Hi

As far as I know there is only one strength and in the UK it should be stated on the label. Yes, you can continue with the emergency vet's bottle. Vets not experienced with guinea pigs tend to err on the side of caution in terms of dosages.
 
Wiebke said:
Hi

As far as I know there is only one strength and in the UK it should be stated on the label. Yes, you can continue with the emergency vet's bottle. Vets not experienced with guinea pigs tend to err on the side of caution in terms of dosages.
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I found a single website that seems to also have it listed as being available at 5mg/ml, so I've emailed the emergency vet just to be sure - hoping I hear back before we run out!

Edit: it seems that the 5mg/ml variant is for injection only, so I would assume it's 1mg/ml as it's oral. Will hopefully hear back beforehand regardless!
 
KikiKaka said:
I found a single website that seems to also have it listed as being available at 5mg/ml, so I've emailed the emergency vet just to be sure - hoping I hear back before we run out!

Edit: it seems that the 5mg/ml variant is for injection only, so I would assume it's 1mg/ml as it's oral. Will hopefully hear back beforehand regardless!
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Have you checked the label? UK bottles always need to have any concentration and dosage stated on the label unless there is only one. It is a legal requirement.
 
Wiebke said:
Have you checked the label? UK bottles always need to have any concentration and dosage stated on the label. It is a legal requirement.
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I have, but it's a smaller bottle given to us by the emergency vet rather than the "original" one - they transferred it from a bigger bottle, so we only have the label put on there from the vet.
 
KikiKaka said:
I have, but it's a smaller bottle given to us by the emergency vet rather than the "original" one - they transferred it from a bigger bottle, so we only have the label put on there from the vet.
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It still should be on the printed label on the smaller bottle.
 
Heard back from the emergency vet - the dosage in all bottles in the UK is indeed 1mg/ml so it's safe to give her!

One more question, though... is there a rough amount of weight I should be aiming for her to gain on a daily/weekly basis? Her average weight on Sunday was 617g, then on Monday 611g, on Tuesday it was 630g, and today it's 634g. Still trending in the right direction, but I'm worried about her plateauing!
 
KikiKaka said:
Heard back from the emergency vet - the dosage in all bottles in the UK is indeed 1mg/ml so it's safe to give her!

One more question, though... is there a rough amount of weight I should be aiming for her to gain on a daily/weekly basis? Her average weight on Sunday was 617g, then on Monday 611g, on Tuesday it was 630g, and today it's 634g. Still trending in the right direction, but I'm worried about her plateauing!
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No, there is no amount because the aim of syringe feeding isn’t weight gain. The aim of syringe feeding is to stabilise their weight and stop losses during illness; they may gain some but proper regaining of lost weight takes weeks - ie after she is completely better, back to eating properly and no longer needing syringe feeds.
 
Unsure if I'm just being paranoid, but she seems very sleepy after coming off the Metacam - is this normal? She's still active when we take her out and give her veggies, water, etc, but she seems to be sleeping/resting a lot more when she's in her cage. I've added a picture of her average weights over the past few days (key is at the top) - does this seem like okay progress over the past 48 hours?

1721400451302.webp
 
She doesn't seem to be grazing on hay very much at all - could this be down to being on both Dual Care and Fibreplex (as well as getting some oats), so she knows she has enough fibre? She still loves her daily veggies now that she's back on those, so not hugely concerned, but wanted to make sure this isn't a sign of anything worse!
 
While it is good she is eating veg, as hay is the main food intake, not eating it is concerning. Veg is merely supplementary so isn’t anywhere near enough. You can not stop syringe feeding if a piggy isn’t eating hay.

As your weight chart doesn’t just show the one weight check of the day (you don’t need a lowest weight, highest weight and plus averages for each day because one weight check each morning is enough) I have gone off of the lowest weigh per day on the assumption that that is her morning weight check and the only one that counts. If so then her weight looks to be stabilising so she is eating enough.

A piggy will eat hay when they are well enough to do so. Generally you cannot stop any syringe feeding until hay intake has returned to normal. A piggy who can eat hay will eat hay and then refuses syringe feeding. Is she refusing any syringe feeds?
If she is in fact eating well, you could cut out one feed a day and check that her weight remains stable the next day. Doing this for a couple of days to see what happens before taking any next steps.
I know that Debbie at TEAS gives some of a syringe feed and then hand feeds hay to the piggy to encourage independent eating

The fibreplex will not be making any difference to her nor eating hay - it isn’t a food.

I personally would not be giving oats until you are certain her hay intake is back to normal. A tablespoon of oats per day is fine but it should not replace syringe feeding or hay intake in any way
 
Her weight this morning is 618.5g which is a good sign!

My fear of weighing just once per day is that she's still perilously close to 600g which I've seen in a few places on the forum is apparently the point of no return - so the reason for multiple weighs is to prevent her from dipping below that.

She's not refusing any syringe feeding, but having looked into it we seem to be giving too much Dual Care for her bodyweight, so my plan is to cut her down from 3 feeds of 20ml Dual Care and 1 of 20ml pellets to 3 feeds of the former at 8ml and 2 of the latter at 15ml, one of which will be before bed (plus her veg each day) and monitor from there. It seems Excel recommend 3 feeds of 10ml per kg of bodyweight, so the 20ml could well have been too high?

Any feedback on this would be appreciated as I obviously don't want to cut out too much of the syringe feeding!
 
KikiKaka said:
Heard back from the emergency vet - the dosage in all bottles in the UK is indeed 1mg/ml so it's safe to give her!

One more question, though... is there a rough amount of weight I should be aiming for her to gain on a daily/weekly basis? Her average weight on Sunday was 617g, then on Monday 611g, on Tuesday it was 630g, and today it's 634g. Still trending in the right direction, but I'm worried about her plateauing!
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If it is not specifically stated, there is only one strength available for use. ;)
 
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