Bullying? - new bond

I probably wouldn’t separate then try again tomorrow. Simply because it’s calmed down and doing so could start it all up again - more incessant humping. It could happen in the cage but that’s to be expected - they take two weeks to establish hierarchy. So I would sit it out in the cage as well and hopefully Digby will calm down again.
 
I definitely agree that splitting would be a mistake.
There hasn’t been any humping for about an hour and a half I don’t think. Little has just been afraid he’d get humped. Digby has been doing kinder forms of dominance such as going under Little’s chin. He also listens when Little asks him to back off, with either squeaks or a warning nip or both. Seeing where they were this morning vs now is a huge difference. I’m very proud of Digby in that way, hes doing well. Since I last updated, I’ve been moving Little when he’s gone in the corner and that seems to have helped. Little has more confidence to move around and Digby is being respectful for the most part. Definitely going to keep them in the pen a lot longer, though.
 
Can you give them houses, tunnels or boxes with two entrances to sleep in overnight and leave them in the pen. When I've done bondings that are into a grey area I've left them in the pen for a couple of days in the past rather than risk moving them to a cage.
I made the mistake of moving to a cage to soon this week and ruined a bond that looked like it was going well.
 
piggieminder said:
Can you give them houses, tunnels or boxes with two entrances to sleep in overnight and leave them in the pen. When I've done bondings that are into a grey area I've left them in the pen for a couple of days in the past rather than risk moving them to a cage.
I made the mistake of moving to a cage to soon this week and ruined a bond that looked like it was going well.
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Maybe I should’ve read this sooner! I’ve just spent the past 10 minutes moving them into their cage! I don’t think overnight would’ve worked though for us as the pen was in the living room and we have a cat who uses the living room to get to his litter box. He’s not usually bothered about the piggies but was fascinated by the pen so we’ve been locking him out of the room all evening. I think it would’ve been too risky, even with a lid on the pen! If we didn’t have the cat then I would’ve definitely left them overnight.


Things had been pretty consistent for a few hours which is why I decided to move them now rather than hold off even longer. They’re in a new cage right now, I’m also not giving any hideys or anything tonight, it’s totally bare with just lots of hay. Little is doing well, eating, drinking, walking. Digby is a bit freaked I think, he’s just been sitting in one spot since he went in. It’s the first time he’s been freaked since we got him on Saturday. I’m hoping he comes round in a bit. I’ve got my eye on him though. I’m thinking things are okay, though. Fingers crossed for us!
 
Fingers crossed here too. I'd forgotten about yur cat. I moved mine because the pen was in the kitchen and I couldn't get to the cooker in the evening to cook tea. Don't know why I did it there, just didn't think it out properly, I usually bond them in my bedroom where there's more room.
 
You could try covering part of the cage with a blanket for Digby’s sake. Hope the night goes well.
 
I've had everything crossed for the boys. Hope you are all well this morning.

I've had a suspicion that my new girl Zara was intimidating George through the bars as he seemed to be in his house a lot (like Hansel and Gretel you can tell where he's been!) so I set the tablet to video them when I was out of the room and caught her in the act. She chases floofy Louise away and then settles at the bars closest to him and stares at him like a cat watching a mousehole. When I returned she was all bounce-about-aren't-I-cute but I know now Zara, I know!
 
Thanks everyone for the advice and support :)
Things have gone well through the night. After about half an hour, Digby started moving around. I woke up in the night maybe 4 or 5 times to a bit of dominance behaviour (I’m a very lightsleeper!). It wasn’t anything much though at all. Digby hasn’t been excessively humping or anything. The dominance I saw was Little asking Digby to give him space when he got too close with some calm squeals, Digby going under Little’s chin which Little would also squealed at and then I saw mounting only once or twice. It wasn’t excessive though and Little let him (aside from some squeals again), it was sort of like one hump and then done. I’m quite impressed actually. We’ll see how things go today, but I have high hopes that they’ll have a good bond the more they trust each other.
Them being together and talking to each other has actually helped BB a bit too, i noticed he perked up a bit as soon as he heard them.
 
That's such great news. It does sound like they just need time to find their feet with each other and hopefully they can have a good bond
 
So happy they’re getting on better. It seems Digby feels more secure in his new friendship now :wub: and glad BB has perked up as well.
 
Thanks guys :)
I could use a bit of advice actually with something. Since Digby first met Little on Monday, he rumblestruts whenever we pet him. There’s times he’s literally asking to be pet but when we do, he rumblestruts whilst we’re petting him. What do I do about that? I’m worried that if I pet him, he’ll be more dominant towards Little simply because he’s trying to be dominant to us? I’m just a bit confused why he’s doing it. I thought once he bonded with Little it would stop but it hasn’t.
 
Just catching up, brilliant news! Hope Little and Digby have settled now and live a very happy retirement together x
 
Hmm I’m not sure. I’m wondering if he’s showing you he’s boss as a result of doing the same with Little. I don’t know if that makes sense...
 
I think Digby will be still rather pumped up with hormones I‘d wait and see, he may well calm down once he is settled. As long as him and Little get along then interactions with you are a secondary thing for now.
 
Okay thank you both :)

Managed to get a couple of pics of the boys, one from earlier and one from just now. They’re a bit dark but the best I could get. Digby is still sometimes trying to work out if he should back off or show dominance, Little is being patient with him and trying to teach him how to behave.
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Update: both piggies are getting on really well still. A day or two ago, Little started to make his happy noises again when walking around the cage. I think that says it’s all really. It’s going way better than I could’ve ever imagined. There’s still some dominance every now and then but it only lasts a couple of seconds and neither party mind. Little won’t run away once it’s happened like he did with BB, he’ll just go straight back to sleep. They really really seem to be getting along well. I think getting an older friend was better for Little too as both of them spend most of the day sleeping beside each other. They’re equally as active as each other which is convenient. We put the hideys and everything in today and everything is still going well. Little is also back to going in his favourite hidey. I’m really proud of both of them.

Now to BB... I thought that once I’d gotten Digby, which was a bit of a shot in the dark, that I’d be able to sort of relax. That it would be relatively easy and stress free in finding BB a friend. I was wrong. In my opinion, I need to get BB a friend as soon as. The bottom line is that he’s really lonely. He can’t have bar interaction as he will literally bite and pull the grid divider for hours upon hours without stopping. I don’t want him to hurt himself. But also, Little isn’t a great bar companion because he’s blind, especially now he’s got a friend as he’s uninterested. Digby also couldn’t be less interested now that he has a friend and I worry that the only thing that will happen is that it’ll make Digby overly dominant now he’s with Little. BB is eating less than normal and we’re giving him top up food which is maintaining his weight.
I don’t drive and my nan, who usually drives me places for the piggies, got quite annoyed at me when I told her I split Little and BB and said she’s not taking me anywhere to find anymore because she thinks I should only have 2. In a perfect world, i would only have 2 as that’s how I’d prefer it right now but I love BB and I’m not prepared to let him go. My nan doesn’t really understand guinea pig politics so doesn’t get why a split was necessary. Anyway, this means I can only travel so far. Going to get Digby on the train was really expensive so I can’t be going so far out to a rescue. The only one I can easily get to is one in Doncaster. I’ve had bad experiences in the past when they gave me my lovely Peanut, I realised within 5 minutes he had a dental issue and couldn’t eat. So I’m not sure if they missed it or just didn’t want to tell me. Anyway, I’ve been messaging with the rescue and the whole thing has just made me quite annoyed honestly. I’ve explained our situation in depth. They said they have a pig I can try bonding BB with but I have to do the bonding myself. Fair enough. So I ask if I’d be able to bring piggy back if the bonding didn’t work out, as if the rescue had been doing the bonding I wouldn’t keep a pig where a bond didn’t work. They asked why I can’t keep him and let them be neighbours forever. I explained again that BB isn’t good for bar interaction and neither are our bonded pair so it would lead to me finding another pig for BB and the pig they adopted out to me. That I can’t financially support 6 pigs and I want to fully be able to meet the needs of all the pigs I own so would be irresponsible for me to bite off more than I know I can chew. Anyway, because of this the rescue said no, essentially said he’s unbondable due to his failed bond with Little. This just made me so mad, I calmly explained that the reason the bond with Little failed was because BB was so petrified of just being alive when he was bonded with Little that he seemed submissive which is why the bond worked initially, that it’s only since BB has became comfortable that he’s come out of his shell and revealed his true personality as a dominant pig. Anyway, have yet to hear back but I doubt they’ll come around. I told them that BB wasn’t eating right but apparently that doesn’t matter either. The rescue was fine to let me have take their pig if I could keep him regardless (which would’ve meant I was being an irresponsible owner) but not if I wanted to take him to try a bonding only as would’ve been done in the walls of the rescue if they weren’t so busy.
Now I don’t know what to do. They’re the only rescue I can get to, this whole thing is making me so upset. I’ve rang lots of pet stores to ask if they have a single piggy in the adoption section as I wouldn’t feel as bad giving a single piggy back to the store if it didn’t work. I just don’t know what to do at all :( I feel a bit helpless actually in this situation
 
I'm so sorry you're stuck in this situation. Unfortunately the new restrictions have also scarpered the idea of a piggy train. I'm not sure what you can do apart from get one from a pet shop, but that's not the best way to go about it. How about the rescue where you got Digby, do they not have any singletons, or are they too far for you to travel?
 
Siikibam said:
I'm so sorry you're stuck in this situation. Unfortunately the new restrictions have also scarpered the idea of a piggy train. I'm not sure what you can do apart from get one from a pet shop, but that's not the best way to go about it. How about the rescue where you got Digby, do they not have any singletons, or are they too far for you to travel?
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Digby didn’t come from a rescue but I somehow found him on a Facebook group. The post was a few months old, it was my last resort and was a complete shot in the dark. The owner was unsure what to do with him, whether to keep him or give him away if it meant he could find a friend. They’d decided to keep him but I thought I’d send a message just in case it came of anything because he was a 6 year old piggy, which was what we were looking for for Little but didn’t think we’d get.
Everything is really far away from us, we are in Barnsley. I don’t think there’s any rescues within a decent distance aside from this one in Doncaster. It’s not *really* the distance the matters but the cost of the train fare to get there.
I just don’t know what to do at all. I don’t really want a baby pig as he and BB could easily fall out when baby pig reaches teenage phase and suddenly turns out to be dominant. But then also if one from a pet shop or a piggy from somewhere online didn’t work out, I wouldn’t know what to do with it. I can’t keep it, I wouldn’t feel right giving it to the pet store morally, then I dont feel like I can take it to the rescue in Doncaster.
I’m just in a difficult spot, I don’t think BB is unbondable like the rescue has tried to say. He’s only one, I don’t want to condemn him to live the rest of his life on his own.
 
Aw, such a shame you are going through this awful situation. It’s so difficult bonding a single piggie in this Covid situation. Wishing you all the luck x
 
You have my total respect for what you're trying to do for BB and even if you had unlimited space and resources to take a chance on a single pig you might, as you say, end up with 2 singletons looking for friendship and you've doubled your issues, and where might it lead to? You don't want to end up on a maths exam paper somewhere '...so how many piggies did @Little Ones end up with?'!
The vet I use has nurses who volunteer in smaller animal rescue place (that I'd never heard of!) so I wonder if you might turn up something unexpected by calling round a few actual vets? Not for an appointment but to mention your situation and see if they either know of any other rescues, or even if any pig had been 'handed in' and a staff member might be temporarily fostering? Also if you have a PDSA vet they might have more incidences of people sadly having to surrender animals so there might be a regular 'route' they use to certain rescues for these.
We once had success with a local social media plea for a single pig... she was 5 minutes walk away. Second time not so lucky but who knows.
As it's coming up to Christmas BB might just have to be patient but something will turn up - so many piggies in the world so something will. It's just when! Stay positive and many congratulations on the Little/Digby bonding... we envy your success (don't we, George) 💕
(Yes, Zara - I'm looking at you)
 
Free Ranger said:
You have my total respect for what you're trying to do for BB and even if you had unlimited space and resources to take a chance on a single pig you might, as you say, end up with 2 singletons looking for friendship and you've doubled your issues, and where might it lead to? You don't want to end up on a maths exam paper somewhere '...so how many piggies did @Little Ones end up with?'!
The vet I use has nurses who volunteer in smaller animal rescue place (that I'd never heard of!) so I wonder if you might turn up something unexpected by calling round a few actual vets? Not for an appointment but to mention your situation and see if they either know of any other rescues, or even if any pig had been 'handed in' and a staff member might be temporarily fostering? Also if you have a PDSA vet they might have more incidences of people sadly having to surrender animals so there might be a regular 'route' they use to certain rescues for these.
We once had success with a local social media plea for a single pig... she was 5 minutes walk away. Second time not so lucky but who knows.
As it's coming up to Christmas BB might just have to be patient but something will turn up - so many piggies in the world so something will. It's just when! Stay positive and many congratulations on the Little/Digby bonding... we envy your success (don't we, George) 💕
(Yes, Zara - I'm looking at you)
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Yes exactly! 3 years back, I’d have been jumping for joy at the prospect of lots of piggies but now I’m a lot more financially aware so I know what I can handle and 4 in itself isn’t as ideal as 2 would’ve been. I definitely don’t want to be adding and adding.
I never thought to ring the vets actually, we don’t have a PDSA but we a couple. I’ll give it a try tomorrow. I’m definitely sorting him out a friend tomorrow regardless. I had a horrible dream last night that BB had died from being so lonely so I’m not waiting any longer just in case, but also the piggies are all I’ve been thinking about constantly since Peanut got ill about 2 months ago. There was that and then his death, then Little on his own, then getting BB and BB being petrified, then the mites, and then Little getting bullied, then splitting them up, then reintroducing, then splitting again, then finding Digby, failed bonding with Digby and co., then successful bonding with Digby and Little, then BB being sad and not eating. It’s just been never ending. I’d like to get BB a friend, sort them out and then hopefully have a few months where nothing goes wrong with the piggies. The clock on Simon’s 6 month prediction on Little’s life is quickly coming to an end, but we’re hoping he and Digby get a couple of years more together. Aside from Little’s gut issues (hes on probiotic forever as he easily gets some gas build ups and his poos go clumpy and soft without it which in turn reduces his appetite) both oldies seem to be in really good health. But with piggies, we know anything can happen at any time.
Oh bless you, hopefully your piggies can sort themselves out! They can be such a worry, can’t they? I think I would’ve exploded if Digby hated both my boys. They’re doing really good, though. At the minute, we’re just trying to figure out what to do with the hidey houses as Digby likes to redecorate - as in tip over and roll the big cosy hideys usually straight to where an unsuspecting, blind Little is sleeping. I’ve heard some loud, startled squeaks a couple of times when this has happened so we’re having to Digby-proof the retirement home for the sake of Little’s sanity 🤣.
 
It’s lovely Digby and Little have found their forever friend ❤ Hope you can find BB a little friend soon x
 
We were up and at it quite early this morning in the quest to find BB his friend. We called up a couple of vets as suggested to us but had no luck. So then we started ringing pet shops, no luck there either really. Everyone was completely out of piggies - I suppose it’s Christmas after all 🙄 - apart from one shop. They told us they had 3 piggies, they said they won’t separate a pair so us only needing one worked out. We went on a mad rush via the bus to go collect one before there were only two left. We finally got there, I was convinced they’d have gone but they hadn’t. I absolutely fell in love with one, but that wasn’t the one we brought home unfortunately. We sat and watched the piggies for almost half an hour before making our pick. They were all smooth haired, but one was a white/grey with red eyes. He was just lovely, but he was leader of the pack and a no fly zone with us already having dominant BB. Funnily enough, the entire time I’ve always been saying that I don’t want one that looks like Little. As he’s a lemon agouti, he looks very similar to other lemon agoutis. Little is just too special to me that I didn’t want one that would have a near identical resemblance - if that makes sense. Anyway, the most submissive of the three piggies is the one we chose.... a lemon agouti :doh:. With IDENTICAL markings to Little - blonde fur behind left ear, blonde stripe along half his body on the right side. He doesn’t have a crest like Little and he seems to be an American (?) unlike Little who is a rex. But still they look so similar. I’ve had a pit in my stomach about all this the entire time really, though. I thought that with our situation, the 3 male piggies left in the store seemed to be the most morally right thing I could do as boar trios don’t work and it was likely one would be going as a single. I don’t know... I’m hoping we’re doing the right thing. Ive never had a piggy from pets at home before, but they give you a pamphlet (with some misleading information) as well as call you after 2 days of adoption to make sure things are going well. I’ve never had a piggy this young either... I know people go nuts for baby pigs but I definitely think that they look cuter once they get a bit older. He’s only 8-10 weeks they told us. He’s not tame either, obviously. The only non tame pig I’ve ever had has been BB so the whole thing makes me a bit anxious!
We got home almost two hours ago. They said to leave baby alone for 24 hours. That didn’t really seem right to me, though. He was shaking so much. So we decided to take him and BB downstairs to the bonding pen. Surprise, surprise, BB went back into his submissive, scared state. We had two terrified pigs in the bonding pen. After half an hour, we gave up and just put them straight into the cage. I wasn’t sure if that was the best move, but to me baby needed to be with someone and BB wasn’t comfortable in the downstairs environment so was just frozen.
Anyway, it seems to be going well. Baby has been doing zoomies around the cage. He and BB are getting on, BB licked baby pigs ear a lot at first. I was shocked to my core when BB came out of his hidey to eat the hay. At the moment, we have to remove all hideys or we have to put lots of hay in his hidey with him to get him to eat. But he’s been coming out himself to eat which is what we wanted. He’s also finally took notice of the carrot cottage he’s had all week, too. It’s definitely perked him up and it hasn’t been long at all. Baby pig is eating, drinking and pooing well too. I was expecting him to keep to himself for a little while but he isn’t, he did seem very inquisitive though in the pet shop.
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One thing that sets him apart from Little is that he has a colourful butt!
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piggieminder said:
Aww he's lovely. I hope they get on well. Don't feel too badly about where he came from. Sometimes you have to put the welfare of your lone pig first and if rescues can't help you, do what you have to do.
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That’s true, thank you :) it’s amazing to me how much brighter BB is, I thought he’d be happier but he’s really perked up. That was the most important thing to us. Not to speak too soon, but I’m thinking he won’t need any top up syringe food today 🤞
 
Awww, he’s beautiful @Little Ones :love: So glad it seems to be going well and BB’s being a good boy! :hug:
Never thought I’d end up with a (big diva!) special pet shop piggy here either after all my rescues etc (even though quite different to your situation of course!) but it was just timing and Jasper needing a friend after so long alone before and after he got here! Definitely don’t feel bad or anything, you’re putting your piggies needs first and it’s great he’s in your lovely care now (and not part of a boar trio etc going to an inexperienced home either!)!
Hope no syringes for BB today and lots of happy bonding boy time! He really is gorgeous! x
 
What a beautiful boy! The thing you were avoided is what you ended up with. Funny eh!? I think exceptions can be made when it comes to the welfare of your BB. I’m glad they seem to have settled in together well. Long May it continue. And hopefully the little fellow will help BB feel more secure. What are you going to name him?

As an aside, I was in o@h a long time ago getting some supplies. While there I saw my Fudge’s doppelgänger! Except I think he wasn’t a crested. If it weren’t for the fact they were in that place I think I would have taken them home! I occasionally wonder what happened to them.
 
Thank you all for the support :) You're all so right though too, BB’s needs had to come first.
I know that BB would always have been a difficult case when it came to bonding outside of his comfort zone - aka two of the bedrooms. I read somewhere on a guide that if the mum was very stressed whilst pregnant and nursing, some piggies sort of hold onto it all their lives and will resort to their prey animal instincts in unfamiliar environments. I definitely think that’s the case with BB. With his breed too, I’ve always suspected his original owners got him from a Californian pig breeder before he ended up at a rescue. I think when people breed to get a specific look, they usually aren’t good owners/breeders as they care more about the appearance of the animal in order to make the most money. I don’t support breeding to start with, but there’s something about people breeding pedigree guinea pigs that feels weird to me.
One of the vet practices I rang early this morning gave me a number for her friend who might have some piggies. We sent them a text and they ended up being breeders who also take part in piggy shows, their main interests were in breeding satins and satin carriers into piggies! That made me feel a bit sick to be honest. But it made sense seeing as they probably like the glossy coat for pig shows.
No idea what to call baby pig yet. Any suggestions would be good, I hate naming boys lol - and they’re all I’ve had to name.
Baby pig is a cute lil guy though, he looks like a mouse right now rather than a guinea pig! He’s constantly making noises when he’s roaming around the cage. He and BB are always following each other. If baby pig comes out of a hidey, BB will do the same and vice versa. They will also share the same food dish with their faces pressed together, it’s so sweet. Right now baby pig is scared of movement, BB is a bit like this still too. When everyone is still, baby will do his zoomies and walk around and things but when people start moving he goes into his hidey. It makes it a bit difficult to grab some nice pictures but I imagine in the next few weeks he’ll come out of his shell a bit more. I really never thought they sold piggies this small. I don’t go into pet shops very much at all. It makes me think that Little and Honey were probably about 14 weeks when i got them. Maybe even more. They were about the size of my whole hand. Baby pig is 8-10 weeks and is the size of my palm! It’ll be interesting to see how he grows over the weeks.
I think I’ll be wondering about that cute little grey piggy for a while, he was just the sweetest. If he weren’t top pig, he’d have been mine. As soon as he emerged from the hidey, I said “awww that one!” the same time as my mum said “not that one!” She isn’t keen on the red eyes, but it didn’t bother me. I hope he goes somewhere nice, you just never know do you? I think p@h are trying to make sure piggies are getting their welfare needs met, especially when they said they’re leaving the last two together and not splitting them. I hope that’s the case. It kind of baffled me though that they were only giving me a single because I had a single already but didn’t want any sort of proof. It really made me realise how easy it is to just go out and buy a pet.
 
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