Bullying? - new bond

Morning! I hope you slept ok because you were so concerned in this post 💕 Perhaps BB has just experienced a lot of changes over the past few weeks (although some of them have been caused by himself!) and will settle down with time. Maybe there's something to be said for just sitting it out for a few weeks to show BB that he's OK now - he's got his territory and his food and a daily routine, his skin has stopped itching, nobody's going to be mean to him, and veggies arrive magically every day to make him happy. Focus on building his trust in you, because if BB can settle down, your original plan of eventually neutering and going for sows seems a safer bet - apart from the practical aspects of actually finding suitable piggies in the current climate! Even if you started looking for another boar today it might still be weeks before you can find one so I would give it some time. Try putting food bowls and hay together at the bars so they can eat at the same time and see if they do, or if BB gets narky about Little eating something he can't get at!

George also seems to be fear-aggressive (even attacking a nice friendly female when she frightened him with her speedy movement!) so we're now taking it slow. I went for a mature male as a companion for my Ivy as she was such an independent spirit that I was worried about female hierarchy squabbles and thought a nice big male would just let everyone know where they stood. Aaah my fluffy girl - you wore the trousers from day one and he was never brave enough to challenge you! Your piggy neighbours provide each other with lots of stimulation and you are keeping Little safe from (even unintentional) harm and that had to be the priority. This housing option is not second-best for these boys... they aren't sitting there wishing they were somewhere else or wondering where all the other guinea-pigs in the world have gone, and both of them are now able to sleep, eat and move around comfortably without fear - it's just that perhaps BB can't quite believe it yet. Give it a little more time... and maybe even a little more veg! 😉
 
Siikibam said:
I’m sorry it didn’t work out. May I ask why you thought the 6 month old boar was too young to bond with Little?

Good luck finding a solution. Spayed sows are very few and far between so good luck with your search.

PS if Little is fine then that tells you everything. The bar chewing piggy isn’t the one you gauge the relationship on. ♥
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I mean first off we were looking for a older piggy about 5 years old but this was around our 7th rescue and we’d had no luck at all with finding even 1 boar - nevermind an oldie. But also we spoke to the rescue about it and thought that since Little is special needs, having a young piggy that is so hormone driven might not be the best thing for him which is why we got the 13 month old.
Thank you, I think I’m going to try a re-introduction on neutral territory today but if BB goes straight for Little then we’ll start moving furniture and building the second cage.
 
Free Ranger said:
Morning! I hope you slept ok because you were so concerned in this post 💕 Perhaps BB has just experienced a lot of changes over the past few weeks (although some of them have been caused by himself!) and will settle down with time. Maybe there's something to be said for just sitting it out for a few weeks to show BB that he's OK now - he's got his territory and his food and a daily routine, his skin has stopped itching, nobody's going to be mean to him, and veggies arrive magically every day to make him happy. Focus on building his trust in you, because if BB can settle down, your original plan of eventually neutering and going for sows seems a safer bet - apart from the practical aspects of actually finding suitable piggies in the current climate! Even if you started looking for another boar today it might still be weeks before you can find one so I would give it some time. Try putting food bowls and hay together at the bars so they can eat at the same time and see if they do, or if BB gets narky about Little eating something he can't get at!

George also seems to be fear-aggressive (even attacking a nice friendly female when she frightened him with her speedy movement!) so we're now taking it slow. I went for a mature male as a companion for my Ivy as she was such an independent spirit that I was worried about female hierarchy squabbles and thought a nice big male would just let everyone know where they stood. Aaah my fluffy girl - you wore the trousers from day one and he was never brave enough to challenge you! Your piggy neighbours provide each other with lots of stimulation and you are keeping Little safe from (even unintentional) harm and that had to be the priority. This housing option is not second-best for these boys... they aren't sitting there wishing they were somewhere else or wondering where all the other guinea-pigs in the world have gone, and both of them are now able to sleep, eat and move around comfortably without fear - it's just that perhaps BB can't quite believe it yet. Give it a little more time... and maybe even a little more veg! 😉
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That’s true, it might be best to leave it a while and let BB calm down. BB was biting the bars like crazy last night when Little was out eating. I think he wanted Little’s attention but Little was totally ignoring him. I’ve had disturbed sleep this past week as I would wake up every time I heard any squabbling - usually once every hour of the night. Then now, I keep being woken up by the bar chewing!
 
Update:
We began the reintroduction on neutral ground about 40 minutes ago.
Things have been going really well. Little isn’t scared of BB and has been walking around making happy sounds, as has BB. BB hasn’t chased or really shown any serious dominance behaviour. They were doing follow the leader for about 25 minutes with BB following behind Little. They ate some veg beside each other too. We’ve just put the hay out and they’re eating happily side by side - they haven’t done this in around 2 weeks. BB is also feeling very confident about where he is and isn’t afraid of anything, so this time we’re seeing the ‘true’ BB.
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There’s been some mild dominance such as chinning but that’s it. I’m planning on staying here with them until about 4pm if all carries on going well. Then I’m going to replace all the fleece in the cage and just put hay in the middle, no hideys or anything. I’m also going to move the cage so it’s more in the open so that no one is able to ‘claim’ certain spots as BB has done in the cage already.
I’m really hoping they can work out their dominance issues together and be bonded properly
 
Update: they are now napping together. BB went to sleep first, after a little while Little made his way over. There was some rumblestrutting from BB, but Little carried on coming closer and both of them laid down at the same time. Hopefully things carry on well when they wake up. As of right now, there doesn’t seem to be any clear boss to me. Maybe Little? BB has mainly been very vocal throughout whenever he’s been walking around. I’m not sure if they’re sounds of submission? I’m really hoping they’re able to sort out their hierarchy and make it stick. I’m actually surprised at how well this is going. I thought that BB would go straight to chasing Little and that this would all be over in five minutes. We’ve been here just over 2 and a half hours now and BB hasn’t chased him once or really done anything the annoy Little. They do just keep chinning every now and then and BB will rumble strut a fair bit. But he does that a lot in general, whether Little is around or not. I find this kind of strange but I’m hoping it won’t affect the bond.
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Perhaps a little time apart and a reintroduction was what they needed. Hopefully they can figure things out between them. Don’t worry about BB’s rumbling. It’s a mild behaviour and some boys will just do it at anything!
Fingers crossed for them!
 
Piggies&buns said:
Perhaps a little time apart and a reintroduction was what they needed. Hopefully they can figure things out between them. Don’t worry about BB’s rumbling. It’s a mild behaviour and some boys will just do it at anything!
Fingers crossed for them!
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I’m really hoping so. When they were first bonded, BB was very very scared and the bonding only lasted an hour. Last night, BB was really missing Little. I’m hoping that now BB is able to be his confident self during a long bonding process, they are able to work everything out.
They’ve woken up about 10 minutes ago. They’re eating hay with their faces really close together 🤞I’m going to leave them out longer, but nothing negative has happened yet so I’m thinking they will be going back in the cage together later on and I’m hoping things continue to go well when that happens!
 
🤞🤞🤞
How lovely to see them lying together! They're both really trying aren't they? Maybe absence made the heart grow fonder for BB? Wouldn't it be wonderful if... well, I won't jinx it but you know what I mean! 💕
 
Well we were going to put them in at 4. But at 3:50, BB started with his chasing after 5 hours of no problems! Going to keep them out even longer, really want them to resolve everything! Seemed like Little was in charge too until then
 
Update: the boys have been put in their cage together, all that’s in there is hay along with two water bottles. BB did chase Little a bit more but they went to sleep beside each other again about half an hour ago so I thought it might be a good idea to try them both in the cage seeing as Little was still happy enough to sleep beside him afterwards.
This is them right now:
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I have everything crossed they’ll work out together. They did spend about 7 hours in a bonding area together, after all.
 
Update: Also don’t want to jinx it but.... everything is going well. This is the best their bond has been in 3 weeks. When we first got BB, he was so scared and then the minute he came out of his shell he was excessively dominant towards Little. Having them in the cage together now, they both seem like regular guinea pigs. BB is not scared and neither is Little and they’re just getting on with it. It’s clear since putting them in the cage that Little is top pig. Little is putting BB in his place finally when BB crosses the line and BB is respectfully listening and backing off. They’ve been eating side by side too. I’m shocked at how well they’re doing. Before, Little would dart to the opposite side of the cage when BB would come over. Now they’re sat next to each other and showcasing a proper hierarchy. It could all still go wrong, but I’m very hopeful. It was a long 7 hours, but I’m glad I gave it a try.
 
Yay this is great news. Well done for trying again. Fingers crossed it continues!
 
Things are still going well for us. Yesterday at about 12ish, we added two hideys into the cage. The cage still isn’t back to normal yet as we’re trying to take things slow. But the addition of the hideys didn’t rock the boat which is good. They’re still happy to sleep and eat beside each other. I’m still in disbelief this is all going well. Fingers crossed they’re bonded permanently now :)
 
Sadly, things aren’t going so great any more.
The boys absolutely can’t do floortime together. We’ve tried twice but Little is just too petrified of BB to move. As soon as BB makes a sound, Little is darting to safety. In the cage, things aren’t too bad but the cage is kept to pretty much the bare minimum. Little isn’t able to have his favourite hidey because BB will chase him out of it. The boys are okay for the most part, like in the cage things aren’t too bad, but I can tell both boys would be happier with different companions. I really think BB wants a friend to share his energy with and Little wants a friend to chill out with.
I’ve been talking to rescues today and having no luck on finding an older boar. I think the best scenario is 4 boars. Little with an old pal and BB with a younger one. Just want both boys happy. I’ve joined some groups on Facebook to see if I can drop on someone needing a home for an old boar. This is so upsetting to me. I just want them to love each other but I can tell that Little would be happier with a different buddy
 
I’m sorry things haven’t worked out for you. I would say to not just stick to an older boar for Little. Sometimes it takes a few goes for them to find the right fit. Wishing you all the best.
 
Siikibam said:
I’m sorry things haven’t worked out for you. I would say to not just stick to an older boar for Little. Sometimes it takes a few goes for them to find the right fit. Wishing you all the best.
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That’s why we went with BB, as we thought it might be good for Little. I know every boar bond is different, but it seems like Little isn’t fond of BB’s energy level. Little wants to peacefully sit and eat his hay whereas BB seems to want proper interaction. Little isn’t a very active piggy, aside from he used to love his floortime. He also doesn’t like to be pestered too much, sort of wants a quiet life. I feel like age 3 is the lowest we should go for him. I’m hoping we find something. I don’t feel like we should split until we’ve found someone though. Unlike before, splitting isn’t urgent as the situation isn’t necessarily bullying anymore, but rather I can tell they’ll thrive with a more suited companion. Little is dominant in their bond, but I think BB is having a hard time with this as he also would like to be in charge.
 
Aah, I'm so sorry to hear things are rocky between the boys. Being in a similar situation now with George and the two girls I know just how disappointing this is and how you can lie awake at night trying to think of all the possible solutions. We had another cage-rearrange yesterday as nobody was happy with the previous 'not-so-neighbourly' set up but I think only time and familiarity will settle this trio down. Saying that George is always excited to see the ladies: if he were a bit randier I'd be working on a plan C but he seems happy enough... at least it's not occurred to him to chew the bars yet.
Good luck finding your retirement friend for Little. I was thinking about his mite treatment... did that go OK?
 
Free Ranger said:
Aah, I'm so sorry to hear things are rocky between the boys. Being in a similar situation now with George and the two girls I know just how disappointing this is and how you can lie awake at night trying to think of all the possible solutions. We had another cage-rearrange yesterday as nobody was happy with the previous 'not-so-neighbourly' set up but I think only time and familiarity will settle this trio down. Saying that George is always excited to see the ladies: if he were a bit randier I'd be working on a plan C but he seems happy enough... at least it's not occurred to him to chew the bars yet.
Good luck finding your retirement friend for Little. I was thinking about his mite treatment... did that go OK?
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Think we may have found an oldie for him, almost 6 years old. He’s the other side of the country from us but could somehow figure out how to get him.
The mite treatment went fine for Little, no reaction at all thankfully. If everything works out, by the time new pig will be quarantined, Little will have had his final mite treatment. I’m just hoping the two oldies will get along, they have no idea if new pig is submissive or dominant as he’s been alone for 5 years. If it doesn’t work with Little, I can try him with BB. But I’m hoping it works out for them, i just want Little to have his spark back
 
Little Ones said:
Think we may have found an oldie for him, almost 6 years old. He’s the other side of the country from us but could somehow figure out how to get him.
The mite treatment went fine for Little, no reaction at all thankfully. If everything works out, by the time new pig will be quarantined, Little will have had his final mite treatment. I’m just hoping the two oldies will get along, they have no idea if new pig is submissive or dominant as he’s been alone for 5 years. If it doesn’t work with Little, I can try him with BB. But I’m hoping it works out for them, i just want Little to have his spark back
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May I ask (and you have probably already answered!) how was he while living alongside BB?
 
Siikibam said:
May I ask (and you have probably already answered!) how was he while living alongside BB?
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They were only split overnight really. In the cage, the bullying wasn’t as obvious as floor time so it was hard to tell how Little really was. But, during floortime with BB, Little just doesn’t want to move. In floortime on himself, he walks around and is his very curious self. Since the reintroduction, things weren’t too bad in the cage but they still can’t do floortime. There’s some dominance from BB in the cage, Little isn’t defending himself as much now unlike after their reintroduction. I think both boys want to be in charge, BB can only last so long before trying to become the leader it seems.
Little definitely seems less active now than when he and Peanut were together.
 
Little Ones said:
The mite treatment went fine for Little, no reaction at all thankfully.
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So his third treatment shouldn't provoke a reaction either... if he had picked up anything from BB there wouldn't have been enough mites to cause him a problem. BB's third treatment could go either way... no scratching or an itchy two hours again. Was he this itchy after his first treatment? Or maybe he was too new and scared to let you see him scratching!?
Little Ones said:
I’m just hoping the two oldies will get along, they have no idea if new pig is submissive or dominant as he’s been alone for 5 years.
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😪 Poor old boy
 
Sorry to hear of all your problems your having with your boys! As @Piggies&buns will know very well I also had a lot of problems with my two boys. They were also triggered from any slight change to their normal environment and were especially bad during floor time or a trip to the vets. I was miserable as I was so distressed and anxious about them fighting but felt awful to separate them, it was really starting to effect my mental health as I was terrified one of them was going to get hurt and it was my fault and one day (about 3 in the morning when they were relentlessly arguing and I had to be up at 6 for work) I decided that I needed to make the decision that was the best for my boys and for me too. They have a split c and c and have been living side by side very happily, they did bite the bars at first and still do on the odd occasion. However it’s more of a ‘this is my side’ or ‘your cage has just been cleaned I want to see what you’ve got over there’ but they can still interact and see eachother through the bars. I felt really guilty at first but my partner kept reminding me that I was looking at it from a humans point of view and not a piggies. It’s so much nicer now they’re separated as they’re able to have lots of enrichment added to their cages which they couldn’t have before as they used to argue over it and lots of floor time where they can explore without worrying about the other one. It is such a difficult decision to make I do sympathise!
 
Free Ranger said:
So his third treatment shouldn't provoke a reaction either... if he had picked up anything from BB there wouldn't have been enough mites to cause him a problem. BB's third treatment could go either way... no scratching or an itchy two hours again. Was he this itchy after his first treatment? Or maybe he was too new and scared to let you see him scratching!?

😪 Poor old boy
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BB’s first treatment was perfectly fine, he react to it at all. Very strange. BB was pretty much comfortable with us during his first treatment. After we did it, we had him and Little our for floortime to make sure he was okay and he was behaving normally.

New pig also had never had his claws cut before :yikes:
Situation is that the dad bought two piggies for the daughter six years ago (mum and dad are divorced, daughter lives with mum). Five years ago, one piggy died. A couple of months ago, mum and daughter move houses and take piggy off dad’s hands. The mum feels like they don’t give piggy enough time as he seems lonely so wanted him to go somewhere better where he could fine a friend. The mum took piggy to the vets when she got him from the dad and his claws were massively overgrown. That’s pretty much all I know! Seems like he wasn’t kept too well, I’m hoping he was always given a decent amount of hay or I’ll be back with another dental piggy! It’s a shot in the dark on whether this will work out with Little, or even BB. But it’s not often you see a piggy of this age looking for a home.
 
DougalandDiego said:
Sorry to hear of all your problems your having with your boys! As @Piggies&buns will know very well I also had a lot of problems with my two boys. They were also triggered from any slight change to their normal environment and were especially bad during floor time or a trip to the vets. I was miserable as I was so distressed and anxious about them fighting but felt awful to separate them, it was really starting to effect my mental health as I was terrified one of them was going to get hurt and it was my fault and one day (about 3 in the morning when they were relentlessly arguing and I had to be up at 6 for work) I decided that I needed to make the decision that was the best for my boys and for me too. They have a split c and c and have been living side by side very happily, they did bite the bars at first and still do on the odd occasion. However it’s more of a ‘this is my side’ or ‘your cage has just been cleaned I want to see what you’ve got over there’ but they can still interact and see eachother through the bars. I felt really guilty at first but my partner kept reminding me that I was looking at it from a humans point of view and not a piggies. It’s so much nicer now they’re separated as they’re able to have lots of enrichment added to their cages which they couldn’t have before as they used to argue over it and lots of floor time where they can explore without worrying about the other one. It is such a difficult decision to make I do sympathise!
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I relate to everything you’re saying! I haven’t slept right since I got BB really as I’m light sleeping so I can hear if anything happens. You definitely have to view it from a piggy perspective. We want things to work so badly but at the end of the day, piggies are only a part of our life whereas this is their entire life. I know Little like the back of my hand and can just tell he isn’t his happiest, which isn’t fair on him.
I’m glad your two are getting on well now, some piggies just aren’t meant to live together. They’re complex little things. I’m still trying to figure BB out, he doesn’t half confuse me with his behaviour!
 
Aw, I hope this new piggie is going to be a fantastic new companion for Little. He sounds like he really needs some company, poor little chap, he has not had the best of lives so far. Have you managed to sort out a piggie train for this new little man, and when are you likely to have him?
 
Bill & Ted said:
Aw, I hope this new piggie is going to be a fantastic new companion for Little. He sounds like he really needs some company, poor little chap, he has not had the best of lives so far. Have you managed to sort out a piggie train for this new little man, and when are you likely to have him?
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I’m hoping so. Imagine if I end up with 3 dominant boars :mal:! That would be bad luck!
With the short notice, we weren’t able to do the train. For us, we couldn’t do any weekdays apart from Monday and Friday, and owner could really only do Saturday and Monday hence why we’re going so soon. We’re getting the train to Bristol and she’s driving up to there from Plymouth. It’s a long journey for both of us, hopefully piggy travels safely. From what I can gather, he’s being kept outside in a hutch right now so I’m suddenly very glad we’re getting him sooner rather than later with how cold it is and how old he is. From tomorrow evening, he’ll be in a nice warm house on a fleecey bed. He’s been bedded on straw as far as I know.
It’s all happened so fast, I sent the owner a Facebook message not thinking anything of it as the post was almost 2 months old, and then only a couple of days later we’ve booked train tickets to go get him!
 
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