• Discussions taking place within this forum are intended for the purpose of assisting you in discussing options with your vet. Any other use of advice given here is done so at your risk, is solely your responsibility and not that of this forum or its owner. Before posting it is your responsibility you abide by this Statement

Baytril not working?

PiggyPack

PiggyPack

Forum Donator 2023/24
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
394
Reaction score
365
Points
430
Location
The Wirral and Liverpool (Uni)
Hi all!

I’ve made a new thread on here as my other one wasn’t receiving any replies.

I have three pigs who’ve been on Baytril for over 2 weeks now and I have seen very little progress.

They began gaining weight and being a bit more energetic, but that was about it, their snot also cleared and went clear for a while, but now it is back to very very bright green and they all have a little nibble on some hay (barely) and then sleep for a good few hours.

Would it be likely the Baytril isn’t working then? As I know progress isn’t linear and I told this to my vet a week ago and he said to continue the course on but they just seem to be getting worse.

I’m calling them up tomorrow and I’m going to try and be firm to press for another antibiotic, I’ve heard good things about Zithromax please let me know any other suggestions.

I am very exhausted and trying everything I can. Thank you all for all your help!
 
Sorry to hear you and your girls are still having such a difficult time.

Fingers crossed you can find the right antibiotic your girls x
 
zithromycin is very good for alot of infections,so is doxycycline.a culture of the fluid maybe good ,as it will let you know which antibiotics are sensitive to the infection.i hope you get a better antibiotic.I'm not sure if you have been given bisolven,but its good for clearing up the mucous.
 
Piggies&buns said:
I’m sorry to hear this.

It is possible baytril isn’t the right antibiotic for this infection - you would be expecting to see some progress given the time they’ve been on it. You are doing the right thing in calling them tomorrow
Click to expand...
Their progress has been very strange, clearing up then going clear then eating barely anything to eating loads to nothing. Is that normal? I’m just trying to best gauge whether it’s worth switching antibiotics. I should also mention they have been on Baytril before for a URI.
 
As of right now they are all healthy weights and fairly lively, but still seem exhausted, with bright green almost fluorescent snot in some of them
 
The discharge certainly isn't normal or healthy. In our experience you see a difference with an antibiotic in the first few days. Sometimes we've had one which needs a very long course but that's to clear the last of the infection... any improvement in symptoms has been seen in the first few days. Mind you, most of our experience is UTI not URI.

Our vet uses Baytril as the first option and Septrin as the second. Septrin is, I think, a mix of 2 antibiotics. I've not had Zithromax - it's been recommended on here for stubborn gum abscesses and the like. It's strong and can affect the gut function of some piggies. We've had a similar thing with Septrin: one pig on it for weeks with no problem at all, another on it and although the urinary symptoms clear rapidly the guts were badly affected. We tried to balance that out using support feeding and probiotic.

In your position I'd definitely be back in touch with the vet for an alternative antibiotic. Yes, you should complete the course in order to kill off all the bacteria but if you aren't seeing any improvement in symptoms in the first few days it's not working well enough for piggy (or piggies! How many do you have? Are they all unwell? I'm so sorry!) Try to onitor their weight daily is they are ill - then you will be able to see if they are just abut maintaining weight or losing day-on-day which is more dangerous. This can indicate that the AB isn't working OR - if symptoms improve - that the AB is working but the guts are affected. Even if every day isn't possible at least every couple of days while they are poorly.

Sorry we aren't all online at the moment to reply. Yes by all means tweak your thread or re-post. H&I is monitored most closely but sometimes there can be 2 or 3 people posting at a similar time and a thread can slip under the net. Good luck - sorry it's over the bloomin' bank holiday 😟
 
I’m doing all of the above :) Luckily our vets is open 10-1 so I’ll see if I can get another antibiotic over the phone, a he saw all three last week and they’re not much different. Their appetites have increased, they’re a lot heavier than when they were first ill, but they’re still very sleepy. The seem to strangely fluctuate between green and clear snot, and all have clicky breathing, Bea is also intermittently hooting aswell. The snot never cleared and whilst they have improved in their demeanour and appetite it’s not nearly shifted the infection as quickly as it did last time.

What do you reckon? Suggest and alternative or continue the course?
 
Also I’ve been doing the 2x doses of Baytril 12 hours apart? Hope that’s not too long and I haven’t left too much time. I’ve also done a dose of fibreplex 2 hours before each dose for each pig. Hope I’m doing everything right :)
 
Baytril is normally twice a day.

We've had UTI which seemed to improve a little on Baytril but not much - so we stuck it out for longer than the usual 3 days but to no avail. 8 days later my boy was exactly the same as right at the beginning of the course. Sometimes an infection is partially resistant so you think you might be seeing an improvement... but usually if I have a piggy on AB and the symptoms haven't budged by 3 days I call my vet again and they switch it for another one.

When you get an antibiotic that works the improvement is usually very dramatic and in the first 1-3 days. It's at this point people are tempted to cut the course short because piggy is 'better'!
 
Free Ranger said:
Baytril is normally twice a day.

We've had UTI which seemed to improve a little on Baytril but not much - so we stuck it out for longer than the usual 3 days but to no avail. 8 days later my boy was exactly the same as right at the beginning of the course. Sometimes an infection is partially resistant so you think you might be seeing an improvement... but usually if I have a piggy on AB and the symptoms haven't budged by 3 days I call my vet again and they switch it for another one.

When you get an antibiotic that works the improvement is usually very dramatic and in the first 1-3 days. It's at this point people are tempted to cut the course short because piggy is 'better'!
Click to expand...
Right thanks that’s so so helpful :))
 
Just want to double check asking for another antibiotic is a good idea, they’ve nearly been on Baytril for three weeks, their appetites have really improved and seem more like themselves, but are still very exhausted, snotty, clicking when they breathe and hooting.

I’m just worried as their appetites have returned that’s a sign they’re getting better? But everything else is the same, so I hope you can see why I’m very confused. Has anyone got any insight to this?
 
You could also try taking phone vids of your piggies when they show 'poorly' symptoms like any hooting or clicking to show the vet (they never perform at the vet!). Or you might consider asking for a second opinion if there are other vets at the practice (or even at another practice?) to see if they say the same thing about the antibiotic. They won't offer a second one if they think the first one hasn't had time to work. In all honesty, after all this time under the same conditions, I would either be pushing for a second antibiotic or a second opinion. There are some vet practices listed in the forum for your area Recommended Guinea Pig Vets and I've heard Dr Molly Varga is well respected. It might be worth phoning and asking whether a referral is needed or whether you can just sign up. You can also ask about prices for consultations etc to make sure you're not getting in too deep. @PigglePuggle , you're in the NW... do you have any vet hints for these piggies?

Baytril is such a 'workhorse' antibiotic that it has gotten a lot of use and resistance can creep in. some bacteria are 100% resistant, some are 100% sensitive, but some can be only partially resistant/sensitive which means the bacterial load (the number of bugs in the infection) can be reduced, or growth can be slowed, but the bug isn't beaten and keeps trying to grow back. I saw this in my old Georgie with his last UTI - he seemed a little bit better on Baytril but he couldn't get rid of the infection no matter how long he was on it and he still had painful symptoms... I'd say he was only 10-15% better than without any treatment and that wasn't enough for him to be able to beat it. It's a tricky thing to get your head round I know.

Another issue is that Baytril is licensed and approved for guinea pigs whereas some of the other AB are not so vets can be reluctant to try something else, especially if it isn't licensed. We see this in the metacam painkiller that is often prescribed for pigs who are unwell (did you get any of this? Sometimes called loxicom). When unlicensed the 1.5mg/ml 'dog' version was typically prescribed but then the weaker 0.5mg/ml 'cat' version was licensed for piggies. Now most practices offer the cat one for piggies (and sometimes only very low doses) even if they offered the dog one before with no problems.
 
Free Ranger said:
You could also try taking phone vids of your piggies when they show 'poorly' symptoms like any hooting or clicking to show the vet (they never perform at the vet!). Or you might consider asking for a second opinion if there are other vets at the practice (or even at another practice?) to see if they say the same thing about the antibiotic. They won't offer a second one if they think the first one hasn't had time to work. In all honesty, after all this time under the same conditions, I would either be pushing for a second antibiotic or a second opinion. There are some vet practices listed in the forum for your area Recommended Guinea Pig Vets and I've heard Dr Molly Varga is well respected. It might be worth phoning and asking whether a referral is needed or whether you can just sign up. You can also ask about prices for consultations etc to make sure you're not getting in too deep. @PigglePuggle , you're in the NW... do you have any vet hints for these piggies?

Baytril is such a 'workhorse' antibiotic that it has gotten a lot of use and resistance can creep in. some bacteria are 100% resistant, some are 100% sensitive, but some can be only partially resistant/sensitive which means the bacterial load (the number of bugs in the infection) can be reduced, or growth can be slowed, but the bug isn't beaten and keeps trying to grow back. I saw this in my old Georgie with his last UTI - he seemed a little bit better on Baytril but he couldn't get rid of the infection no matter how long he was on it and he still had painful symptoms... I'd say he was only 10-15% better than without any treatment and that wasn't enough for him to be able to beat it. It's a tricky thing to get your head round I know.

Another issue is that Baytril is licensed and approved for guinea pigs whereas some of the other AB are not so vets can be reluctant to try something else, especially if it isn't licensed. We see this in the metacam painkiller that is often prescribed for pigs who are unwell (did you get any of this? Sometimes called loxicom). When unlicensed the 1.5mg/ml 'dog' version was typically prescribed but then the weaker 0.5mg/ml 'cat' version was licensed for piggies. Now most practices offer the cat one for piggies (and sometimes only very low doses) even if they offered the dog one before with no problems.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply! Yeah with the med licensing issues I’m pretty sure that’s why my vet is reluctant to change, I’ve asked twice now about the Baytril not working and he’s pushed for a longer course and given Ronaxan, which hasn’t done much if anything. Hopefully fingers crossed he’ll give another antibiotic today or tomorrow as I actually run out of Baytril today, but if not I will probably start looking for another opinion.

It is so bizarre, they’ve got their appetite back and are a lot more lively, but still snotty and clicky breathing, also to mention the mucus has been fluctuating between clear, yellow, green, none, clear, green etc, surely that’s not normal?

I hope 12 hours apart with doses isn’t too long.
 
It's pretty normal - I've never had an AB for piggies every 8 hours (like people are sometimes prescribed).

How long have you had your pigs, and is this a recent problem or something they arrived with?
 
Free Ranger said:
It's pretty normal - I've never had an AB for piggies every 8 hours (like people are sometimes prescribed).

How long have you had your pigs, and is this a recent problem or something they arrived with?
Click to expand...
It’s a more recent problem, I have a suspicion last time they were on Baytril the course wasn’t long enough and they developed resistance, just rang my vets and they’re all booked up as it’s bank holiday Monday :(. That St. helens vets you mentioned is a lot closer to me, I’ve never looked at one that a referral process before, do you know how it works? I’m very very anxious as I run out of Baytril this evening and I’m quite disappointed in my regular vets that they keep not calling me back or helping me schedule appointments.

Would a referral process take a large amount of time? Because if so I may have to look at more emergency appointments.
 
I don't know whether you'd actually need a referral. I'd just give them a call and ask. I once saw a different vet as a second opinion, taking along x-rays and results from my regular vet. I didn't ask for a referral, I just checked with their receptionist, booked an appointment and went. In my case they charged a slightly higher consult fee because it was billed as a second opinion but it will depend on the practice. I did it because although my vet is lovely and very skilled they don't usually offer gabapentin as a piggy painkiller and I knew this other vet had a lot of experience with that drug. So just phone them up - you've got nothing to lose. But ask about pricing because things can vary a lot.

Sorry I wasn't clear - it was that when people get antibiotics they usually give us 3 doses 'per day' so we space them over 24 hours as 8 hourly doses... but when I've had piggy antibiotics it's always been twice a day, so one dose every 12 hours or so. It's never been more often than that. If an AB works it wallops the bugs as soon as you give it so every 12 hours is very efficient. If the bug is resistant to the AB it was probably resistant before you even started the treatment... it just carried a resistance gene. It won't be anything you've done.
 
Just had the most bizarre phone call with my vet. In which he sounded very defeated and a little annoyed, he mentioned I get Bea in for an x-ray to check her chest and when I mentioned the Baytril didn’t work he simply said, right take them off it and just increase vitamin C.

Really not pleased, it can’t just be me who thinks that is really dangerous and bizarre. I’m definitely calling up Rutland House vets tomorrow. I feel like I’m flogging a dead horse trying to talk to him :(
 
I can also tell the reception staff recognise my voice and their tone changes completely, I feel like I’m just being a pain despite paying well over £750 for medicine. I’m really disappointed :(
 
Free Ranger said:
I don't know whether you'd actually need a referral. I'd just give them a call and ask. I once saw a different vet as a second opinion, taking along x-rays and results from my regular vet. I didn't ask for a referral, I just checked with their receptionist, booked an appointment and went. In my case they charged a slightly higher consult fee because it was billed as a second opinion but it will depend on the practice. I did it because although my vet is lovely and very skilled they don't usually offer gabapentin as a piggy painkiller and I knew this other vet had a lot of experience with that drug. So just phone them up - you've got nothing to lose. But ask about pricing because things can vary a lot.

Sorry I wasn't clear - it was that when people get antibiotics they usually give us 3 doses 'per day' so we space them over 24 hours as 8 hourly doses... but when I've had piggy antibiotics it's always been twice a day, so one dose every 12 hours or so. It's never been more often than that. If an AB works it wallops the bugs as soon as you give it so every 12 hours is very efficient. If the bug is resistant to the AB it was probably resistant before you even started the treatment... it just carried a resistance gene. It won't be anything you've done.
Click to expand...
What do you think about what my vet said? Sorry forgot to tag you :) ?
 
Well done on fighting for your piggies - it's such a shame that you are having to have this fight though! In your shoes I would actually be shopping around...

Usually on the forum we don't supplement with vitC if piggies are eating a normal varied diet, although pigs who have been poorly for a while are sometimes given a little extra. It's not a 'cure' for anything though - unless you've got scurvy (which is unlikely!) but if you need to find out more about methods and dosing here is our forum link... it's about halfway down the page Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links If your vet isn't offering an alternative treatment plan you really need to find one that will.

I took a few goes to find a practice I was happy with - and I don't just go to any vet at this practice. They are generalists, not specialists. Not every vet is interested in guinea pigs. I've had good 'standard' care from other practices, for instance I've had a boy neutered with no problems, but the 2 or 3 vets I've been happiest with have always taken my pigs seriously and discussed the pros and cons from the piggy point of view, not just for ease of treatment for owner and vet. I mentally use the Dog Standard - would the vet have a better attitude if I went in with a dog instead of a guinea pig, and if the answer's yes then that's not the vet for me. It shouldn't matter what we choose as a companion animal - it's our choice. The 'small furries' are as deserving of a chance as anything else x
 
I agree with Free Ranger.
Vit c is not routinely supplemented but can be useful as a short course to boost the immune system during a period of illness. It will not cure anything though - very odd to be told to take them off medication and give them a food supplement instead.
Definitely try to find another vet
 
That but
Free Ranger said:
Well done on fighting for your piggies - it's such a shame that you are having to have this fight though! In your shoes I would actually be shopping around...

Usually on the forum we don't supplement with vitC if piggies are eating a normal varied diet, although pigs who have been poorly for a while are sometimes given a little extra. It's not a 'cure' for anything though - unless you've got scurvy (which is unlikely!) but if you need to find out more about methods and dosing here is our forum link... it's about halfway down the page Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links If your vet isn't offering an alternative treatment plan you really need to find one that will.

I took a few goes to find a practice I was happy with - and I don't just go to any vet at this practice. They are generalists, not specialists. Not every vet is interested in guinea pigs. I've had good 'standard' care from other practices, for instance I've had a boy neutered with no problems, but the 2 or 3 vets I've been happiest with have always taken my pigs seriously and discussed the pros and cons from the piggy point of view, not just for ease of treatment for owner and vet. I mentally use the Dog Standard - would the vet have a better attitude if I went in with a dog instead of a guinea pig, and if the answer's yes then that's not the vet for me. It shouldn't matter what we choose as a companion animal - it's our choice. The 'small furries' are as deserving of a chance as anything else x
Click to expand...
That bit at the end is so so true. I’ve been starting to feel that with my regular vet, thank you so much for all your help. Fingers crossed they finally get the care they need!
 
piggy.pack said:
By the way :) When looking for a second opinion, will I have to de-register from my current vet? I can imagine it’ll be quite awkward if so.
Click to expand...

No you won’t need to.
You will find members of this forum are registered with two or more vets - using one for general care, and one for specific dental care
 
Gosh I’m really stressed out, phones Rutland House this morning and they said I need a referral from my current vet to get an appointment with the exotic department. I know how slow my vets are with things and I’m so worried it won’t be done in time and my pigs with just get worse and worse. I’m so exhausted I’m really panicking I just need them to get a different set of antibiotics asap I have no clue what to do.
 
I've had referrals before, it's quick and easy. Don't worry about it, it's their loss the way they have treated you. You're putting your piggies first.
Go for that referral; the sooner you ask, the sooner it gets done.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top