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Wotsit is still not eating

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wotsitsmum

I really need some advice.
My Guinea pig hasn't been 100% for most of his life, has always been a picky eater, some days eating loads and others not so much. Nothing has ever been found to be wrong with him, this has been happening since he and his cage mate stopped eating in November 07. Wotsit was fine but his buddy had bloat and a couple of days after soming home from the vet decided enougfh was enough and went to sleep.
Wotsit broke his incisor (again) last week, then 2 days later stopped eating and lost a lot of weight. I rushed him to the vets who immediately took him in and started syringe feeding him. They gave him some Baytril incase he had an infection. On Sunday the vet filed his molars a little (unfortunately under GA). On Monday I discovered they had been giving him baytril orally with I told them not to do, so I brought him home to care for here as they kept telling me that he still wasn't eating or pooping.
Since being home he is now pooping, I have been syringe feeding him every 2-3 hours during the day, and with 20 month and 4 month old baby girls this is really hard work.
He still isn't eating and when he does try something he has a very wide exagerated mouth and ear movement. Most of the time he just hides in his bed. He is on fibreplex as his probiotic and I have spoken to Vedra who told me to give him Daktarin. Unfortunatley there is no way I can go to the CCT. He is quite congested but the vet listened to him last night and said in just sounds like congestion and his lungs sound fine, she gave him a pain killer incase his mouth was sore.
He hasn't been out of his bed all night so the syringe feeding continues. He is seeing a lady on Saturday that Vedra gave me the number for.
He has also had a hoarse wheeeeek for many many months, first couple are like this then ok.
Sorry it is such a long post but I keep going round in circles and I am very worried I am going to lose him, I can't syringe feed him forever.
 
You should be able to get enough down him from the syringe feeds to do 3 a day, thats all I do with Elvis and he has put weight on, what are you feeding him on, if its the crital care then that is hard to suck up, use the burgess pellets[Elvis loves the blackcurrant ones]. soak in hot water for 20 minutes and they mush up really easy you can then use a 1 ml syringe to feed.

To give you an idea, I can do 30 ml[maybe more] in about 15-20 minutes.

Does this new vet do the teeth without a GA I take it she does.
 
He is having Supreme Science Recovery, can get him to have 10ml in one sitting, with water in between. Takes about half an hour, then he gets really fed up, hence I am feeding him so often. Where do you get burgess pellets from?
The vet I saw last night is at the same practice as the one who gave him the GA but I feel she is more little animal friendly.
The lady he is seeing on Saturday isn't a vet, kept seeing the name Vedra on here and she provides training to people for dental work etc and is against GA for dental work so this lady won't use it. Kind of feeling that everything is worth a try.
Thanks for the luck, I feel he needs it.
 
Has your vet checked his back teeth? Molars are quite often at the bottom of eating problems, especially if they are not getting ground down normally. Ideally, he does NOT need a GA (genreal anaesthetic) for that.

Best of luck for Saturday - I hope that the rodentologist Vedra has recommended can help.
 
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They checked his molars on Sunday (under the GA), they said they looked ok but they filed his front molars a little to make a bit more room for his tongue.
After reading several posts on here I decided to get a second opinion.
My vets are really nice but I think they find it hard to admit when they have a lack of expertise.
I am worried about the congestion but the vet listened to his chest for a while and said it sounded good.
 
wotsitsmum said:
Where do you get burgess pellets from?
Click to expand...

Burgess Excel pellets are widely available, sold in most pet shops. It's a nugget style food (plain brown bits which all look the same) as opposed to the muesli mix type food you can get. This link shows the regular version and the blackcurrant & oregano version:

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/burgess-excel-tasty-nuggets-guinea-pig-food-2kg-and-4kg-15707

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/burg...-food-with-blackcurrant-and-oregano-2kg-15688

I use the regular plain version for syringe feeding. They do mush up easily if you soak them in water which has just boiled but you may well have to use the back of a spoon or something similar to finish it off to a smooth, lump-free, paste and then just leave it to cool. If you have a coffee bean grinder you could perhaps grind the dry nuggets first, to make it easier, but if not then the other method works perfectly fine.

Incidentally, if you're not already using a 1ml syringe then I'd try switching to one as it's much much easier - I find piggies will accept a smaller syringe more easily. Some people cut the tip off the syringe but I find it better to leave the tip on.

You are absolutely doing the best thing by getting a second opinion. Unfortunately many vets just aren't cavy savvy and it wasn't until I came here that I fully realised how lacking my own Vet was also. I hope you get more great advice here and fingers crossed for your consultation on Saturday.

Best of luck. I really hope that your poor little pig improves soon x
 
Thank you. Will go to Pets at Home this afternoon, need to go anyway. Finding the Recovery very difficult to feed, doesn't suck up or syringe out easily, had to cut the end of a 1ml syringe to get it to come out, think he'd prefer it if the tip was left on so will give it a go.
 
You've been given some good advice here, hope it works.

The other thing I usually give when syringe feeding is Metatone tonic (for humans), it's available at chemists or Tesco (huge bottle!). It seems to help their appetite and give them a bit of a boost. 0.5ml once a day usually.

Daktarin oral gel (chemists again, don't say it's for an animal though!) is really great for sore mouths, are you already using that?

Sounds like the person Vedra recommended might be able to shed some more light on it - I certainly hope so. Well done for perservering with the syringe feeding, I know how tiring it is!

Sophie
x
 
Another quick query having been reading around on here, when Wotsit breaks his top teeth they are the only ones that have ever been trimmed, should his bottom incisors be trimmed as well?
 
Thank you Sophie, he has been on the Daktarin since I brought him home on Monday evening, will try the metatone too, certainly feel that I can make him feel much worse right now.
 
wotsitsmum said:
Thank you. Will go to Pets at Home this afternoon, need to go anyway. Finding the Recovery very difficult to feed, doesn't suck up or syringe out easily, had to cut the end of a 1ml syringe to get it to come out, think he'd prefer it if the tip was left on so will give it a go.
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If you're having trouble with the consistency of the food (whichever brand you're using), I'd be inclined to just add more water. Apparently a "paste" is ideal but if you're finding that hard then just make it slightly looser/more watery instead. Even if it's more like a liquid than a paste, I reckon it's going to be better for him, rather than having less of the stiffer stuff, if that makes sense. He'll be needing plenty of fluids anyway.

I also know (from experience) how hard it is to syringe-feed a poorly piggy. Plenty of us have done it so just ask if you need more tips on that or anything else x
 
Welcome to the forum, wotsitsmum. :)

wotsitsmum said:
Another quick query having been reading around on here, when Wotsit breaks his top teeth they are the only ones that have ever been trimmed, should his bottom incisors be trimmed as well?
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It depends how far down the teeth were broken, and if both were broken or just one. The idea of trimming the opposing incisors is to ensure that the teeth will meet when the broken ones have grown in again, the risk is that without one set of incisors the opposite set may overgrow.

I would be inclined to keep with the syringe-feeding and the Daktarin, also consider the Metatone as Sophie said. Keep offering his solid foods, try grass and new vareties of hay if possible. Good luck for your appointment with the rodentologist on Saturday.
 
Have just fed him with the tip still on a 1ml syringe, he was much happier. Defiant little so and so had a sip of water after the Daktarin, normally just goes back to bed.
He is much more snuffly today, no discharge or crusty eyes, just does a little cough or sneeze and it clears, then will be quiet. Could the syringe feeding by adding to a congestion problem (as I posted earlier the vet listened to him very carefully yesterday and said his breathing sounded good, just congestion in the nose). Just worrying about every little thing at the moment. He seems to have so much going against him.
 
Syringe-feeding is unlikely to be affecting the congestion, don't worry about that. The only thing I've found when syringe-feeding congested pigs is that they eat slower, so feeding does have to be done more steadily. :)

Congestion can be put down to allergy in some cases, he may be sensitive to something in his environment. Are any aerosols or fragrances used in the same room he's kept in? Does he seem more congested when you top up the hay, or just before his cage is due a clean? What is he bedded on?

Considering and, if necessary, tackling such environmental causes of congestion can help to reduce/eliminate the problem in a lot of snuffly pigs.
 
He is on woodshavings and hay, and does seem more snuffly when due for a clean and when hay is added, I have been chaning his hay daily as he is weeing and pooping in it not in the rest of his house, so maybe that's why he is more snuffly.
Have given him metatone and have got some Burgess excel pellets, they seemed much easier for him to eat as well as for me to syringe, it certainly went down quicker, which must be better for Wotsit as well as for me and my daughters. Will measure out a days worth and split it into feeds.
Keep offering him solids but he is not interested but he has never been one for eating food he has been given when he's sitting on your knee, yesterday morning he nibbled on some muesli in his cage but nothing today. Will keep syringe feeding him and see what is said on Saturday.
Thank you for your suggestions.
 
I know you're being bombarded with suggestions from all angles (no bad thing) but I would definitely stop using woodshavings if you can. I used to use them myself, not knowing any different, but later learned that they can sometimes cause/aggrevate problems, both from the dust particles (even in those labelled dust-free) and also from the oils etc which are contained in (and released from) the wood. From what I can tell this seems to be the general consensus of opinion amongst experienced owners and I'm inclined to agree with that, although it's obviously down to personal choice and whatever you think is best.

Please don't feel bad though - many people use shavings for years without realising that there are probably better alternatives, myself included. It could be that shavings have not made any difference to your piggy at all and that ditching them will make no difference either but I personally would switch now, just to give something else a try.

I imagine that Laura (who is very knowledgeable on piggy health matters) is thinking along these lines and would recommend the same.

I appreciate that you've got your hands full but if you are able to switch over to fleece or Vetbed, I'd do that as soon as possible. Perhaps you have an old children's fleece throw you could use? Just put an old towel underneath it. I think even just newspaper with hay on top would be better than shavings, but it could be that the hay is triggering something? I'm not sure about that though so perhaps Laura or somebody else could advise on that.

He does sound very poorly but certainly just keep trying anything you feel comfortable with. You're doing really well and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you x
 
Just reading through my last comment again. I certainly hope I don't upset or offend you in any way by suggesting that you consider changing your bedding option. It's just a thought, something else to try based on my own personal opinion.....and others may well disagree as I certainly don't claim to know everything or always be right.

What is very clear though is that you care about your piggy very much and are doing everything you can to help him.

I'm really rooting for your little one and sincerely hope that he can keep fighting x
 
I agree with missy regarding the bedding (what she says is spot on, she's no need to worry!). Shavings can irritate the respiratory tract and may be a factor in Wotsit's congestion. You could try just using newspaper and hay, but before putting the hay in the cage give it a good shake in a cardboard box - you'll be surprised by the dust that comes off it by doing this. Or you could consider using an alternative such as Megazorb, or a material bedding like fleece or Vetbed.

How is he doing today, any improvement at all?
 
To be honest Wotsit had had congestion for some time, it hasn't affected his eating before so I think at this stage it is just a secondary concern and I am worrying about every little thing at the moment.
When I came down this morning it appeared that he hadn't been out, I weighed him and he'd lost a couple of grams so I decided to continue with the Recovery mix, he had put on weight the day before.
When I looked closer in his cage I found two mouth size broccoli florrets that had the tops nibbled off so I guess that's something. He has always favoured broccoli andI put a small piece in his mouth the other day, he spent a while rolling it round and munching and flipping it over then spat the stalk at me having chewed the top bits off, still hoping it it something to do with the mechanics of eating and that Pam can shed some light on it tomorrow.
 
It does sound like either the molars are a problem or his mouth is sore; I do hope tomorrow goes well.
 
It makes sense that his problem with eating is the main concern - very good call. It's all a worry though, I understand and really empathise.

As you said he loves broccoli, I'm wondering if it'd be worth either adding some to his Recovery feed or syringing it separately in addition to the Recovery. I haven't done this myself but perhaps it'd be ok to puree a little bit of broccoli for him. Then it'd be mushy and presumably relatively easy to administer via syringe and won't require as much chewing as fresh, uncooked broccoli? Perhaps the taste of his favourite food just might help to perk him up a tiny bit and encourage him to take on more food?
 
I am not sure how easy it would be to blitz raw broccoli but it is worth trying. He is getting very reluctant to eat the Recovery, he is such a picky eater anyway, he originally had pellets but then wouldn't eat them, so we tried muesli, he would happily eat this but if we tried to sneek pellets it (as we were trying to get him back eating them for his vitamin C intake rather than put it in his water) into his muesli he would ignore the whole lot. So maybe he doesn't like the taste of the Recovery, maybe I'll try the burgess mushed up again next feed. He is worrying me though as he is looking more and more fed up.
I am clutching at straws too, thought maybe his bottom incisors were too long but they are no different to my other piggy. I just wish he would eat.
I have changed his bedding to paper and hay, will see if that helps his congestion.
Even more worried that Pam won't find anything wrong with his mouth tomorrow as I don't know where we can go from there.
 
You could try blitzing it raw but I meant for you to cook it first and then liquidise/mush it up. I know that in cooking veg apparently you lose some of the vitamins (steaming is best, I think) but it's still worth a try, just to see if it makes the Recovery or Burgess any more appealing to him.

Do keep us updated. I really hope Pam can diagnose something so at least you know what you're dealing with and can go from there. Best wishes x
 
Will try raw first, as I said he is one picky piggy when it somes to food and has turned his nose up at cooked broccoli before (given by mistake), might have to just sit in in boiling water to soften in a little fist and blitz it with the water. Will give it a go at his next feed.
 
Pureed raw broccoli will not syringe. If anyone was wondering!?! The things we try/do for our pets!
 
Ah ok. Thanks for letting us know!

I've never tried cooked broccoli myself, either, but thought it was worth a try. I do know that I've heard of others adding mushed apple and also cucumber to syringe feeds. Does he like those?
 
He does like apple but not cucumber. Don't want to add apple in case a sore mouth is the cause of his not eating. Cooking a bit of broccoli, it will definately puree, know this from weaning my eldest daughter.
 
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wotsitsmum said:
Don't want to add apple in case a sore mouth is the cause of his not eating.
Click to expand...

Good point! Sounds like you definitely know what you're doing with him :)

I bet when you made tomorrow's appointment it seemed like an age away but it's already coming up to Friday evening, so not long now until you can get him seen. Hope he manages to keep eating enough this evening and has a good night (you too!)
 
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