What is wrong with my piggie?

[Emma O.]

I really need help with my piggie. He is 5 months old and Living together with his brother in a cage. His brother has always been dominant towards him and kind of chasing him until he fights back. However, i have noticed he is not eating as he used to, he is also not drinking and often in his house. When he tries to get out he is often chased back in by his brother. I took him to the vets and upon examination they said he is most likely not constipated but he is a little thin. Separation would do good and make sure he eats. I got given medicine to syringe feed it to him but he wont take it. He also only takes little bits of food at a time and some hay. I have also notced that he sits in a corner and makes a small sound, hunches over for a second. Is this due to pain or anything? I thought it was still trouble pooping and i tried to check for poop stuck in his bum but it was clear. I don't know what to do i am stressing out over him. I bought him a new playpen for himself to live in and eat. My only concern is that he isn't wanting to eat at the moment as much as he used to. I am very happy that he takes the luttle bit of hay tho and a bit of cucumber. Someone please help, i dont want my pig to be in pain or anything

 

[Piggies&buns]

The most important thing is to ascertain whether he is ill first. Please switch from routine weekly weighing and instead weigh him daily at the same time each day so you can monitor food intake. If he loses weight, then he isn’t eating enough hay and must be syringe fed to stop the weight loss. Keep a chart of how much syringe feed you get into him so you know in relation to his weight whether his syringe feeds needs to be increased. You must be strong willed and get him to eat his syringe feed. Don’t force, but be confident. It’s so important he eats it. Please do not separate them if their bond is in tact. Separating causes stress and the last thing you want is an ill piggy to become even more stressed. Separating him wont really make it easier for you to work out if he is eating because hay intake cannot be judged by eye - weighing him is the only way to know he is eating enough hay.
Hunching and squeaking can be due to pain. I’d suggest seeing a different vet for a second opinion. You absolutely must rule out illness first. Did the vet give you any pain relief? Guinea pigs don’t get constipation though - if a piggy isn’t pooping enough it’s because they aren’t eating enough.

The guides below detail further

Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

Once illness has been ruled out then if his behaviour from his brother remains and this piggy appears unhappy, then you need to consider that their bond is not working. A piggy who is being bullied by their cage mate can lose weight due to never being allowed to eat, can become depressed and withdrawn. How big is their cage? Two boars need a lot of room and lack of space can cause it’s own issues - two boars need a cage measuring 180cm x 60cm. Character compatibility comes first though and if two piggies don’t like each other and can’t function then no amount of space will change that. If bullying is suspected, you carry out a trial separation to test the bond and if the depressed piggy perks up when away from the dominant, then that is a sign that their bond is broken, and the two piggies will need to live separately permanently. As I said, medical issues need to be dealt with first though.

The guides below detail further

Bonds In Trouble
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

 

[Wiebke]

 

[Emma O.]

Update:

He has eaten quite a bit this morning, still no water tho but i force fed him some with the syringe. I also managed to get him to take some of the medicine. And also when it comes to bonds, they seem to have a strong bond because as soon as we take one out, the other one looses it and starts wheeking like crazy. But as soon as we put him back in he starts the domination thing. He also never got any pain relief medicine from the vet, only the probiotics for his stomach. I have noticed him still slidging over sometimes and making the noise. I have also noticed that he is trying to expand his bum to poop but is unsuccessful. I know you said do not separate but i will need to do so to check if he is pooping at all, its hard to tell which poop it is when theyre together. I'm a bit relieved that he took a bit of food today and some hay. The only problem now i have is him trying to poop unsuccessful. Maybe it will solve itself now that he took a bit more food. We weighed him about 3-4 day ago and he is the same weight today.

 

[Siikibam]

You need to be weighing him every day at the same time. Be aware that it’s syringe feeding and not ‘force feeding’. Also be careful to only put how much he can swallow in his mouth. So a little at a time.

If you separate be ready for the bond to be broken. It may be difficult but I reckon you could possibly work out which poos are his, if any. Poo output is 1-2 days behind, so if he wasn’t eating much then there won’t be many or they’ll be small. How much syringe feed are you getting into him?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Make sure you weigh him every day, it’s so important. His daily weight checks are more of a guide to food intake than poop output is at this point as as siikibam has said poop output is 1-2 days behind. If he only started eating more today, then you aren’t going to see poop improvements until tomorrow or Monday anyway.

as above though if you separate him and there is even a little instability in their bond (given they are teenage boars even more so I would say do not separate them), then there is a chance they will not go back together. This is why we say to not separate piggies on medical grounds

 

[Emma O.]

I am not syringe feeding him as he is still having solid food. This morning he had some of his vegetables. The only thing i am syringe feeding him is his medicine as advised by the vet. Obviously he does not want to take it due to the taste but i manage by holding his head still. And i put only a tiny squirt of it at a time and wait till he has swallowed. The only reason i want to separate them is cause the less dominant pig isn't getting much cage time cause hes being chased away. He is mostly in his house and often the dominant pig goes into that house to annoy him.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I am not syringe feeding him as he is still having solid food. This morning he had some of his vegetables. The only thing i am syringe feeding him is his medicine as advised by the vet. Obviously he does not want to take it due to the taste but i manage by holding his head still. And i put only a tiny squirt of it at a time and wait till he has swallowed. The only reason i want to separate them is cause the less dominant pig isn't getting much cage time cause hes being chased away. He is mostly in his house and often the dominant pig goes into that house to annoy him.

you need to syringe feed if he is not gaining weight through eating enough for himself. If he isn’t pooping, then he isn’t eating enough so you must syringe feed him a recovery feed. Nibbling at bits of hay here and there is very deceptive and it isn’t enough if his daily weight checks are showing a problem

As I said, you need to know if what you are seeing is normal dominance or bullying. If he is constantly being chased by the dominant and he is taking his dominance too far, and the other piggy isn’t allowed to eat and is therefore becoming thin and ill because of it, then that is bullying and youll need to take steps to determine that and potentially separate them permanently. Bullying means they do not like each other and cannot stay together

 

[Siikibam]

He needs to eat hay. Veg isn’t enough because it should only make up 15% of their diet. And it’s hard to judge how much hay they eat hence weighing weekly. But as your boy is ill he needs weighing daily at the same time.

Antibiotics can also cause a gut imbalance in some piggies hence the advice to give a probiotic either one hour before or one hour after the antibiotic. But as mentioned, he should be weighed daily for now.

 

[Emma O.]

I will keep weighing him. From what i have seen he does take in hay as well which is a good thing i guess. The only thing i am giving him at the moment is a probiotic through a syringe and i try to get as much in as he would take. Is that a good thing that he is still on hay and vegetables?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Probiotic isn’t medicine. It just helps settle a tummy upset.
If your piggy is in pain and is ill, then the probiotic alone isn’t going to make him better.
It’s good he is eating hay for himself, but he needs to be eating enough hay to be gaining weight. If he isn’t eating enough and is looking thin then there is something wrong.

If there is no problem with their relationship and it is just normal dominance, then do not separate them at all. You can’t continually separate bonded piggies without causing a problem.
If there is a problem in their relationship which extends beyond dominance and into bullying and a dysfunctional bond, then they may not be able to remain living together at all. If one piggy is constantly being chased and isn’t eating enough as he should be the there may be a problem there.
how big is their cage?

Please read the green links that have been added in.

 

[Emma O.]

The cage is about 130cmx45cm. I have no space for any bigger cage than that. Despite him looking like he never had a lot of food yesterday and the night before, upon weighing he is still the same weight if not a bit more which is strange but good i guess. I will try keep them together but maybe take out the piggie with stomach problem so he can eat in peace if he is being chased. The problem is that I knkw he is distressed with the dominance being out on him and he has been in a hideout because of it. I don't wanna break the bond but i also don't want him to suffer. I bought a playpen with a feeder which i will use to take them out for a bit of roaming as i cannot let them go in the house there is to many hiding spots out of which i cannot take them out of.

 

[Piggies&buns]

The cage is about 130cmx45cm. I have no space for any bigger cage than that. Despite him looking like he never had a lot of food yesterday and the night before, upon weighing he is still the same weight if not a bit more which is strange but good i guess. I will try keep them together but maybe take out the piggie with stomach problem so he can eat in peace if he is being chased. The problem is that I knkw he is distressed with the dominance being out on him and he has been in a hideout because of it. I don't wanna break the bond but i also don't want him to suffer. I bought a playpen with a feeder which i will use to take them out for a bit of roaming as i cannot let them go in the house there is to many hiding spots out of which i cannot take them out of.

Sadly the cage is far far too small for two boars and is below welfare standards - two boars need a minimum of 150 cm x 60cm but preferably 180cm x 60cm. The small cage size in itself will cause them problems and it may be why you are seeing dominance problems. Boars are more territorial and don’t cope well with such small spaces

 

[Emma O.]

How do i settle this considering i cannot fit a bigger cage? The playpen that is coming is a decent size i think, should i keep them in there?

 

[Piggies&buns]

How do i settle this considering i cannot fit a bigger cage? The playpen that is coming is a decent size i think, should i keep them in there?

what size is the playpen?

 

[Emma O.]

120 cm width and 38 cm height. Its circular. Should be arriving today. It was originally meant for only one pig so i can separate them for feeding and a bit of alone time.

 

[Piggies&buns]

120 cm width and 38 cm height. Its circular. Should be arriving today. It was originally meant for only one pig so i can separate them for feeding and a bit of alone time.

you will need to move them both out of the cage and have them both live permamently in the playpen - it should be 12 sq ft if I’ve calculated properly which is the size needed for two boars. The cage is too small to be used.

Unfortunately if they don’t get on then giving them a bigger cage will not necessarily help though. A bigger living space will not solve bond problems.
you will also need to make sure you use the soiled bedding from their cage in the playpen as a change in environment will cause more dominance. Using soiled bedding can make them feel more secure. You are still going to see dominance though and if you separate them unnecessarily if it is only dominance then all you do is make things worse.

however as I have said, if one piggy is withdrawn due to bullying and their relationship not working then you are going to need them to live permanently apart and never have physical contact again.

 

[Emma O.]

I will try my best for now and report later. Thank you very much for your help and time

 

[Siikibam]

Which one is the ill on? Is it the dominant or the underpig? Would you be able to connect the play pen to the cage so they have access to more space? Unfortunately boars do need more space, there's no way round it.

 

[Emma O.]

The less dominant one is ill. Unfortunately not cause our cage is on wheels and elevated off the ground. We're planning on moving soon and the only thing we can do is give them a whole room but until then they're gonna have to be either playpen or cage.

 

[Siikibam]

You could fashion a ramp for them to get in and out the cage, or even remove the wheels so it sits on the floor. I think when you take the underpig out you will also have to take top pig out. So take top pig out and give him a pile of hay to munch on. Then take out the ill piggy and give him his antibiotics. Because it sounds like the dominant one isn't happy with the attention the other is getting. You have to respect their hierarchy. That's the only way I can think of getting around it.

 

[Emma O.]

My piggie just took this poo. He made a struggle noise and hunched over trying to poop. I have put him off veggies today and am feeding him his probiotic from the vet and hay. He seems to still be eating okay. His weight is still okay, theres only maybe like 5-10 grams difference. When he was at the vets they told me its not jis stach but i was sure of it. Is this diarrhea? How serious is it and should i take him to the vet tomorrow again so they can check him again?

The other poops on the brown blanket are from yesterday, the watery one is from today if it helps.

 

[Piggies&buns]

It does look like he has a digestive upset. Keep him off of all vegetables for the time being. Feed him hay and syringe feed a recovery feed if necessary. Probiotic can help settle an upset tummy but poop soup is better. if you can soak the very fresh poops (you need to get them just he produced them) from his cagemate in water, and then syringe the water to your poorly piggy then that can help replace the good bacteria and help settle your poorly piggy’s tummy. Please do have him seen by the vet again.

Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating
Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

 

[Emma O.]

I will try get a fresh poop and disolve a bit of it in water. It does not help that his brother wants to eat the bad poop the numpty. I will do poop soup but i mightbalso order some emergency food just in case. Thanks for your help

 

[Emma O.]

It does look like he has a digestive upset. Keep him off of all vegetables for the time being. Feed him hay and syringe feed a recovery feed if necessary. Probiotic can help settle an upset tummy but poop soup is better. if you can soak the very fresh poops (you need to get them just he produced them) from his cagemate in water, and then syringe the water to your poorly piggy then that can help replace the good bacteria and help settle your poorly piggy’s tummy. Please do have him seen by the vet again.

Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating
Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

I did feed his brother a bit if the probiotics too as he always wants to be involved, can i still use his poop for poop soupm

 

[Wiebke]

I did feed his brother a bit if the probiotics too as he always wants to be involved, can i still use his poop for poop soupm

Hi

Probiotics are basically stabilised gut bacteria in a filler product (like rice powder) to make them better to measure out and give in support of the digestive process. No harm in giving them to the brother; it is NOT a medication.

Poo soup, provided you can operate between as close to 5 minutes as possible between a healthy poo being dropped and the water in which it has been dissolved getting to the piggy in need (so as much microbiome as possible arrives still alive) is more effective when done properly as it contains all the bacteria and other things that are specific for a piggy gut are kind of the tailor-made fresh version whereas probiotics are the kind of canned version that has to serve several species, if that makes sense?

PS: Do you have pellets you can mush in some warm water to give as hay replacement in order to get enough fibre into the gut while you are waiting for some recovery formula?
Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

 

[Emma O.]

Hi

Probiotics are basically stabilised gut bacteria in a filler product (like rice powder) to make them better to measure out and give in support of the digestive process. No harm in giving them to the brother; it is NOT a medication.

Poo soup, provided you can operate between as close to 5 minutes as possible between a healthy poo being dropped and the water in which it has been dissolved getting to the piggy in need (so as much microbiome as possible arrives still alive) is more effective when done properly as it contains all the bacteria and other things that are specific for a piggy gut are kind of the tailor-made fresh version whereas probiotics are the kind of canned version that has to serve several species, if that makes sense?

PS: Do you have pellets you can mush in some warm water to give as hay replacement in order to get enough fibre into the gut while you are waiting for some recovery formula?
Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

Okay that is good, i am waiting for him to drop a fresh poop (never thought I'd say that)but i cant seem to catch it but its okay theres plenty of time. I do have pellets I usually feed them. I saw my piggie take some but i could probably let them disolve in water and use a syringe to give it to my pigglet.

 

[Wiebke]

Okay that is good, i am waiting for him to drop a fresh poop (never thought I'd say that)but i cant seem to catch it but its okay theres plenty of time. I do have pellets I usually feed them. I saw my piggie take some but i could probably let them disolve in water and use a syringe to give it to my pigglet.

Take him out of the cage and feed him a little veg; eating stimulates the dropping of poos.

 

[Emma O.]

How much water should i use to disolve the poop?

 

[Free Ranger]

i am waiting for him to drop a fresh poop (never thought I'd say that)but i cant seem to catch it

It might be worth getting your healthy boy and carefully turning him to have a gentle poke around his bottom... my George always has a few poops 'in the bomb-hatch' ready to drop!

Doesn't need much water... I just use a few ml.

If I have to give disgusting syringe medicine I bribe with a sprig of parsley which has quite a strong flavour and is popular. They know when they get the parsley that the syringe part is done.