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Vet unwilling to refer piggy to Cat & Rabbit clinic

My Ted was on 0.30ml twice a day, and up to 0.5ml if his mouth was sore, I also was given the 30 ml of dog Metacam which works out cheaper
 
My Mavis has been on 0.2ml of dog Metacam twice daily for almost 3 years, she is 6 years old and still doing well. Even if i thought it may shorten her life, i would rather that she was pain free. Peggy (who is 6 years old) is on 0.4ml of Metacam twice daily for her arthritis and the difference it has made to her is amazing. A year ago she was slowly losing weight and was bunny hopping rather than walking because of the pain in her back legs. She now runs up and down the ramp in the cage and has regained much of the weight she lost.
 
Holly (just over 1kg) has been on 0.3mls dog Metacam twice daily for over a year now.
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
I took Squeaks back to the vet today, as his incisors seemed to have gone wrong again. Before I made the appointment last week I could just prise his lips open enough to see that both top and bottom were slanted but apparently matching.
Today though the vet was much better than me and she showed me that one of the lower incisors has completely worn away or broken off :eek:
View attachment 194840
I don't know when or how it happened - I thought they were OK yesterday when I checked him, but it was hard to see.
The gums underneath looked a bit inflamed too. She's given me some Metacam to relieve pain caused by the inflammation. She agrees the cause could be arthritis in the jaw, which the Metacam will help with, and said I should keep an eye out for unusual eating or weight changes, and we'll see how he gets on ie whether the tooth grows back, and they stay even etc.
She's also going to show some pics to one if their other vets, who's recently joined but has worked lots with guineas, see what she thinks.

So it doesn't look as though his main issue is overgrowing molars, which I guess is a good thing. Yet to work out what the problem is, but at least Squeaks is still eating well and more or less maintaining weight.

As a last note, the Metacam is only 0.2ml once a day, which is very low if I recall correctly. Do I take a chance on giving that twice daily without asking my vet, if/as 0.2 once won't help much if he's eating unevenly due to arthritic pain in the jaw?
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I think I would send Simon that photo of Squeaks mouth, poor lad, the cavity of the missing incisor looks a bit brown from the photo?. Did you manage to get a referral, (or are you still registered, I would check with them) I really can’t see how your vets can deny you
 
Thank you all for your experiences. It would seem that 0.2ml of dog metacam twice daily is a common dose, going up to 0.5ml in extremis or for flares. I hope my vet will prescribe a decent sized bottle of the dog version, and let me get it elsewhere if the practice doesn't stock it.
Bill & Ted said:
I think I would send Simon that photo of Squeaks mouth, poor lad, the cavity of the missing incisor looks a bit brown from the photo?. Did you manage to get a referral, (or are you still registered, I would check with them) I really can’t see how your vets can deny you
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Thanks, for the moment I think I'll stick with my usual vet as Squeaks still seems happy and it may well not be a dental issue. If my vets run out of ideas, are unwilling to prescribe an effective dose, or want to do investigations under GA, I'll get an appointment at Cat & Rabbit. I'd be interested also first to meet the new vet at my usual practice, and see just how much she/he knows about guinea pigs and her thoughts on treating dental issues. I think I'll probably have to take him in soon anyway, so they can check what is happening with the broken tooth - I can't hold him well enough to see it myself.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
I think you should get an appointment with Simon or Kim. You won’t need a referral as you’re a client. I took a cat today, for a pet sitting client, who hadn’t used the clinic since 2013 and it wasn’t a problem xx
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It's still on the cards as a possibility, if better pain relief doesn't help the teeth wear normally or if there appears to be a problem with the broken one growing back at all.
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
Thank you all for your experiences. It would seem that 0.2ml of dog metacam twice daily is a common dose, going up to 0.5ml in extremis or for flares. I hope my vet will prescribe a decent sized bottle of the dog version, and let me get it elsewhere if the practice doesn't stock it.

Thanks, for the moment I think I'll stick with my usual vet as Squeaks still seems happy and it may well not be a dental issue. If my vets run out of ideas, are unwilling to prescribe an effective dose, or want to do investigations under GA, I'll get an appointment at Cat & Rabbit. I'd be interested also first to meet the new vet at my usual practice, and see just how much she/he knows about guinea pigs and her thoughts on treating dental issues. I think I'll probably have to take him in soon anyway, so they can check what is happening with the broken tooth - I can't hold him well enough to see it myself.
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The guinea pig vet Ellie Whitehead uses 0.4ml/kg of dog metacam twice a day, going up to 1ml/kg in cases of severe pain (such as dental abscess) for short term use
I have had guinea pigs on metacam for years with no ill effects, one of my sows lived to 8 years old, having been on metacam twice a day for 5 years to help with recurrent bladder stones.
I despair when vets give out the cat metacam in tiny doses, just because it's a licensed product. All those poor animals suffering 😥😥
I am sure Ellie could give you references to papers where these doses are used safely
 
My vet called me back this evening. She and her colleague still think that the front teeth wear may be being caused by the molars growing wrong first, which they would need to investigate and treat under GA. Whether the damaged incisor is going to grow back also needs checking.
Although Squeaks' teeth are still wearing unevenly, I'm not convinced it's due tothe molars, I think it's because the Metacam wasn't a sufficient dose to relieve his pain. i can't imagine that he would still be eating normally, if his molars had been overgrowing for 6 weeks or more. We agreed that I will take him in to see her (and hopefully the other vet too) next Wednesday to see how the teeth are growing and look at increasing the Metacam dose, and see how it goes. I'm hoping a higher dose will solve the problem and his incisor will grow back ok too. If problems continue after that - and maybe even if they don't - I will probably then make an appointment at Cat and Rabbit .
 
Ideally get an appointment at Cat and Rabbit Clinic, sooner rather than later. Simon was saying that those that are caught early, are generally the ones that cure completely and don’t require ongoing treatment , but often he sees them once everything has gone badly wrong.
 
A little update...

I went back to my vet yesterday to see how Squeaks is doing. His weight is stable (slight gain on vet's records), but there is still some uneven wear and his broken incisor doesn't appear to be growing back. The vet thinks probably the tooth broke due to some trauma and infection got into the root and killed the part that 'grows' the tooth. Seems unlikely that it will grow back now.

We still don't know what is the root cause of Squeaks' tooth issue. Whether it is pain from arthritis in the jaw, pain in the temporomandibular joint, trauma to the front of the jaw leading to the tooth breaking ... or something else :hmm: . I've got Dog Metacam 0.2 ml daily for a couple of weeks. Vet thinks it will need investigation under (light) GA to find the answer, if the teeth don't start to grow normally in the next weeks.
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
A little update...

I went back to my vet yesterday to see how Squeaks is doing. His weight is stable (slight gain on vet's records), but there is still some uneven wear and his broken incisor doesn't appear to be growing back. The vet thinks probably the tooth broke due to some trauma and infection got into the root and killed the part that 'grows' the tooth. Seems unlikely that it will grow back now.

We still don't know what is the root cause of Squeaks' tooth issue. Whether it is pain from arthritis in the jaw, pain in the temporomandibular joint, trauma to the front of the jaw leading to the tooth breaking ... or something else :hmm: . I've got Dog Metacam 0.2 ml daily for a couple of weeks. Vet thinks it will need investigation under (light) GA to find the answer, if the teeth don't start to grow normally in the next weeks.
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Metacam is twice a day now yes so it doesn’t wear off?
That’s a shame his teeth aren’t growing back. It would be great if you could get over to Northampton to see Simon. Well worth the drive (I drive a 160 mile round trip to see him otherwise Winnie wouldn’t be here today)
 
Lisanjake said:
Metacam is twice a day now yes so it doesn’t wear off?
That’s a shame his teeth aren’t growing back. It would be great if you could get over to Northampton to see Simon. Well worth the drive (I drive a 160 mile round trip to see him otherwise Winnie wouldn’t be here today)
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On the bottle it says once daily, but we did discuss giving it twice daily and she seemed ok with that, so I'm splitting it in to 2 doses. It's still 3 times as much as Squeaks had before when he was on cat metacam 0.2ml.

I'm still considering a trip to Northampton, but I'm worried about offending my vet by bypassing her. Would Simon be able to work out exactly what is the problem without using anaesthetic? I think it's unlikely to be overgrowing molars now, as he'd be in severe pain, dribbling etc by now with that I'm sure.
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
On the bottle it says once daily, but we did discuss giving it twice daily and she seemed ok with that, so I'm splitting it in to 2 doses. It's still 3 times as much as Squeaks had before when he was on cat metacam 0.2ml.

I'm still considering a trip to Northampton, but I'm worried about offending my vet by bypassing her. Would Simon be able to work out exactly what is the problem without using anaesthetic? I think it's unlikely to be overgrowing molars now, as he'd be in severe pain, dribbling etc by now with that I'm sure.
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Please don't split the dose, as you will be then giving a really tiny dose, twice daily. Give the once daily dose, twice a day. Defintely go and see Simon. If it is just a subtle overgrowing of molars, it would be enough to cause the uneven wear of the incisors, but it may be something else, jaw related, which again, Simon is likely to detect, as he can pick up on even the slightest issue, as he feels so many guinea pig jaws, every day.

Just to give you an idea of safe Metacam dose. Little Beans, who weighs just over 400g, is on 0.25ml Metacam, twice daily.
 
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Qualcast&Flymo said:
On the bottle it says once daily, but we did discuss giving it twice daily and she seemed ok with that, so I'm splitting it in to 2 doses. It's still 3 times as much as Squeaks had before when he was on cat metacam 0.2ml.

I'm still considering a trip to Northampton, but I'm worried about offending my vet by bypassing her. Would Simon be able to work out exactly what is the problem without using anaesthetic? I think it's unlikely to be overgrowing molars now, as he'd be in severe pain, dribbling etc by now with that I'm sure.
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Yes Simon could check all the teeth without GA.
It’s so worth a visit, you don’t have to tell her just go.
That’s what I did, I just cancelled my normal vets appts and did what was best for my girl, that’s all that matters in the end.
I have to say that’s still a very low dose especially if he is in pain somewhere.
 
Don’t worry about offending your vet. You do what you think your pig needs. Ultimately a vet is a business and so long as the appointments are taken I don’t think the vets really care less who is filling them. They have hundreds of customers. You have one Squeaks.

And you aren’t even obliged to tell your vet, so you either go to Simon and he confirms that your vet is along the right lines and you are happy, or he spots a potential to step in and make Squeaks better and you are happy. It’s a win win.
 
Please won’t let misplaced loyality get in the way of seeing the best vet for finding and sorting your Squeaks dental problems 😊 It’s your pet and you have every right to choose who to see and not having to have a GA to investigate is a no brainier x That dose seem extremely low to me, don’t split it
 
Honestly, in my view, vets should not feel offended when a client goes to another vet for a 2nd opinion, especially if they can't pinpoint the exact problems. Doctors don't get offended when patients ask for 2nd opinion, so why should a vet? They are paid service providers being paid by you, so if you think you can get a better service somewhere else, then it's your choice to go somewhere else.
 
anyar.dris said:
Honestly, in my view, vets should not feel offended when a client goes to another vet for a 2nd opinion, especially if they can't pinpoint the exact problems. Doctors don't get offended when patients ask for 2nd opinion, so why should a vet? They are paid service providers being paid by you, so if you think you can get a better service somewhere else, then it's your choice to go somewhere else.
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I went to my original vets after taking Winnie elsewhere, one lady got really aggy with me, i was like i took her elsewhere as they are alot more experienced!
My local vets act like they have never seen a guinea pig before, so frustrating..
some people do take offence, but i dont like vets that do and i wouldnt go back to them.
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
I've just made an appointment to have Squeaks seen by Kim on 3rd March. That was the earliest appointment they had available at a time I could manage. Hopefully Kim will be as good as Simon at finding out whatever is going on with Squeaks' teeth/jaw.
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Kim is amazing and so thorough! Squeaks will be in very good hands x
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
I've just made an appointment to have Squeaks seen by Kim on 3rd March. That was the earliest appointment they had available at a time I could manage. Hopefully Kim will be as good as Simon at finding out whatever is going on with Squeaks' teeth/jaw.
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Aw great news, I have seen Kim with Ted and she is great and like Debbie says is very thorough, her diagnostic skills a second to none. Hope it goes well for little Squeak x
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
I've just made an appointment to have Squeaks seen by Kim on 3rd March. That was the earliest appointment they had available at a time I could manage. Hopefully Kim will be as good as Simon at finding out whatever is going on with Squeaks' teeth/jaw.
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Kim does a full "piggy MOT", as what my hubby calls it. 😂 She is very thorough in inspecting piggy problems and she also explains everything very good. Your piggy also gets loads of cuddles from her. We always ask her loads of piggy health questions that concerns our piggies and she's always happy to answer and explain it as best as she can.
 
So glad you’ve got an appt for Squeaks at C&R, really hope Kim can get to the bottom of it. All four of mine have seen her in the last year (maybe one a lot more than others eh Cleo!) and she’s a brilliant vet! Hope it goes well :) xx
 
Kim is an extremely good vet. I took Meg to see her during the first Lockdown. I wasn't allowed in and left Meg on a chair and they collected her. Kim phoned me to tell me her diagnosis. I was amazed that even before she got Meg out of the carrier she had realised something was wrong (can't remember exactly what now - it was nearly 2 years ago). My vet is usually very good with piggies and didn't mind at all that I'd taken Meg to another vet.
 
I'm wondering if I can get to Cat & Rabbit by train rather than driving (feeling bad about using my car if there's an alternative...). Does anyone else use the train to get there, and if so, how do you get from station to clinic? Do any taxis wait at the station, and how much does a taxi cost?
 
Qualcast&Flymo said:
I'm wondering if I can get to Cat & Rabbit by train rather than driving (feeling bad about using my car if there's an alternative...). Does anyone else use the train to get there, and if so, how do you get from station to clinic? Do any taxis wait at the station, and how much does a taxi cost?
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I obviously get it from Rugby to Northampton, it takes around 25 mins for me :) There are normally taxis outside, but occasionally I have to call one depending on the time and how busy they are etc. It costs around £7 now to get there (more expensive with peak times with sitting around in queues etc), but normally a couple of quid cheaper than their old address :)
 
I'm on the train now going to Squeaks' appointment with Kim. I hope she can work out what is going on with his teeth/jaw.

There may be something else going on as his weight was down quite a bit compared with Sunday, when I weighed him before leaving. The only thing that has changed since Sunday is that he finished his course of Baytril that day. And yesterday he resisted so much that some of his Metacam ended up down his chin. He seemed to be eating normally though.
🤞 for answers ...
 
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