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Update on Ordell-advice needed

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Ryo_the_Rat

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I started a thread about 2 weeks ago after discovering blood in Ordells urine. he was taken to the vets and given a two week course of baytril. the vet had felt his stomach and said he couldnt feel any stones etc-but i dont know if thats possible to do? anyway the baytril hasnt helped at all and Ordell still has blood in his urine :-\ other then that he is perfectly healthy and happy, still not gone off his food or drink etc

i am at the vets tomorrow with one of my ratties for a lump removal and was thinking of asking for a different antibiotic for Ordell while i was there-do you think this is wise? i think someone mentioned Septrin as a good one for cystitis/UTI's? I'm just about out of baytril so will have to ask for something anyway and as the baytril is doing nothing thought it could be worth trying a different one?

i had thought about bringing him in to be x-rayed but with him being fine otherwise thought it might be best to give it another shot at stronger anti biotics-do you think thats wise? obviously il be discussing the options with my vet but would like some input from piggie people too! O0
 
Give Ordell at least 7 days on Septrin. Whenever I have had a piggy with heamaturia I have had x ray/scan done asap.The commonest reason for heama is stone or tumour.It is not possible to feel stones by external palpatation.

Deep infection can sometimes cause the bloody urine as well,but I would have the x ray or scan done before trying Septrin.,because if there is a stone causing bleeding the longer it is left the more damage it will do.
 
Stones in the penis (boars) or urethra can (and have, here) been felt. Those small enough can be passed or they must be flushed back and come out the other way :(
 
Thankyou both for the replies. i didnt get to speak with my vet today(saw some silly locum instead) so i couldnt ask him about Ordell. my fear is that my vet will probably want to put Ordell under to get an x-ray and i know that isnt a good idea so dont want to rush in with it. is there any other way of diagnosing kidney/bladder stones that would be less risky to Ordell?

I found out my piggie potions book today and I'm going to follow peter gurneys advice for the next two days treating it as cystitis. if there is no improvement by thursday i shall bring him to the vets and discuss my options but if anyone knows of any safe way of diagnosing kidney/bladder stones please let me know so i can mention it to my vet.

the good news is that Ordell is great otherwise-he really enjoyed his cranberry juice tonight ;D
 
I treat with Septrin (depending on severity of case) then an x-ray to see where the stone is so it can be removed. Usually blood will indicate a stone though :( Give lots of fluids too.
 
So is it ok to aneasatise(sp?) for an x-ray? because everything i have read has said not to bring them to a vet that will put them to sleep just to xray :-\ i worry because if they do find stones, wont they then have to put him under to remove them? if one lot of aneasthetic isnt good then surely two lots is worse?

ive been giving him some powder for cystitis which he is taking well. however he is definately squeaking when he pees and he seems to be a suffering from incontenance(sp?) as he will be in the middle of munching on food and have to stop to pee. when I'm syringing him i have him on my lap for about 1/2 hour and in that time he does quite a few little wees :-\ and there is still blood present, though i have to admit its not as bad.
 
He has to be xrayed, without aneasthetic would be better, but not essential. They need to xray tto find out where the stone is so that they can operate. You're probably all bored with me but I can't recommend Uriflow enough for bladder probs, use along side Cow N Gate fruit juices.
 
Well i have an appointment for Ordell for monday afternoon-and i had to fight for that! first i was being told tuesday afternoon, i told them that if i brought him tuesday afternoon then they wouldnt be able to x-ray until wednesday so they got me in for monday afternoon saying that if need be he will be kept over night and x rayed on tuesday, which i guess is better then nothing.

is an operation the only way to remove stones if they are found? i think i already know the answer to my own question but I'm just so worried about him. if they found stones would they be able to remove them the same day do you think? of course i will ask the vet that on the monday but wondered if anyone had experience of this. it wont even be seeing my usual vet so i hope they do agree to x ray or i will be very upset.

just to mention that i have tried everything Peter Gurney suggests for cystitis so it is looking more and more likely to be stones :( please keep fingers crossed for him everyone :(
 
Sorry i have no experience with this but i know a lot of people on here have. Good look to Ordell, try not to worry too much until you know what it is. Fingers crossed for him hope it turns out wel xxxxxxxxxxx
 
Yes,I am afraid surgery is really the only affective way to remove stones. If the lithotomy is done by a piggy experienced vet there should be no post op problems.
 
So my boys are at the vets :( I'm missing them so much, i hate leaving any animal over night :( spoke with the vet and they said he will be x-rayed tomorrow and if it shows bladder stones they will remove them while he is under, so atleast he wont be having two lots of aneasthetic. the vet did say it was a tricky op and also said that basically if it was anything else such as a tumour or kidney stones they wouldnt be able to do much for him :-\ I'm not sure i agree with that and dont know how true it is as i didnt see my usual vet but we will cross that bridge when it comes to it.

so please, please keep fingers tightly crossed for my gorgeous Ordell tomorrow. I'm so worried, dont think il be sleeping much tonight :-\
 
Oh love, i'm sure they'll be alright, we'll have our paws crossed for you all :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten:
 
Fingers and paws crossed for ordell, hope it goes well
Love Emma, Bumble, Bee, Ralfie and Khan
xxxxxxxxx
 
It is good that the vet will do the op straight away if necessary.

Lithotomy is not a tricky op,it is fairly straightforward. I am wondering how experienced this vet is with gps.

I do agree with him that kidney stones are more of a problem,.If it is a tumour it could be removed.A biopsy would show whether it is malignant or not.

Paws crossed for Ordell, and hugs to you,
 
Thankyou for the well wishes everyone, they really worked! they x-rayed poor Ordell today and found one very large bladder stone. this has now been removed and will be sent off for analysis so we can see exactly what we are dealing with and how we can prevent it happening again. the vet told me that it must have been causing alot of discomfort because when they had him under the nurse was trying to empty his bladder and he showed signs of discomfort just from them doing this while he was aneasatised :o :( so they had to put him under deeper.

I'm happy to say that he seems well tonight though. still dripping blood but the vet said we will see this for a few days and he may even pass some clots due to the op. he is in our room with Louis at the moment and will stay in here for the next few days to make sure all is well. vet said he was no trouble at all-so proud of the little guy :smitten:

il have to get some new piccies of him and Louis as ive been talking about them so much here! lol got a new flashy camera for my birthday too so no excuses now ;) ;D

will keep you all updated on his progress-thanks once again for all the advice and support that has been offered during this worrying time.
 
:) Glad he's OK. I forget what type my boars stones were, but one where diet should've made a difference. I sent them off to Oxbow when they were doing their study :)
 
Thankyou Karen. actually ever since i noticed the blood in Ordells urine and started reading up on it i had been thinking of changing him onto the cavy cuisine. vet told me not to make any changes until we know more, but surely changing his food gradually to a better one(hes on science selective at the mo) shouldnt hurt? i forgot to tell him i had been thinking of doing this so might give him a ring to make sure its ok.
 
Changing to a low Calcium diet will help but will not guarantee no more stones but will help :) . I am a great believer in Uriflow and flushing the bladder through, but I have seen it work and heard from people that have used it on their pigs.

Have you read Chrissie's article on Marble's bladderstone? He now has Uriflow and baby juice daily (four times daily I think!). Uriflow is a herbal preparation.

I use Cavy Cuisine for my pigs.
 
Karen, could you point me in the direction of the article you mentioned? is it in this forum? i definately want a read of that!

yes i didnt think there would be any harm done in switching to a better food, think il order the boys some in.

Ordell got through the night just fine-I'm going to get him out in a moment and give him some cucumber so i know hes eating. we had the cage covered with a sheet all night because of how cold it is so it was hard to see if he was the one eating or not. did catch him at the hay a few times though! ;D

and thanks again jnenbnb-hope your girl is still doing well?
 
Well done Ordell O0 you brave little man, now eat up and take your meds for mummy :)
Healing wheeks coming his way :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten: :smitten:
And well done to you love, you did the right thing in getting him looked at so quickly :) :) :)
 
Thankyou for that Glynis, thats very kind of you to say. please do send as many healing wheeks Ordells way as possible everyone because the poor chap feels quite bony today and does not seem himself this afternoon :-\ I'm just about to syringe feed him some food(have to make do with his usual food soaked in hot water) as I'm not sure what hes eaten and he wouldnt take a piece of cucumber from us either. going to keep him on my lap for a while wrapped in a blanket too to get him warm and to see if he is peeing(i have him on vet bed so its hard to tell whos doing what!) if I'm not happy with how he is i shall be ringing my vets.

poor lad, such a big op for him to go through, I'm not suprised hes feeling so rough :(I'm so worried about my little guy. anyone know if he would benefit from some metacam? might ring my vets to see if i can give him some because surely he will be in alot of pain today :'(
 
right well he just had about 6mls of food from me, so that is good i think. he really wanted it too so he was gladly taking the syringe from me. however, he wasnt so keen on drinking so i will have to try again in a little while :-\ fingers crossed please everyone!
 
It would be best to check with the vet before giving Metacam.



Hugs to Ordell,he is very brave.
 
thankyou for that link, ive had a read through and it certainly looks promising so think il have to get some of that in for Ordell. didnt realise it was Chrissie at gorgeous guineas who wrote the article either, so might give her an email too.

for now i wondered if anyone had any tips on getting a piggie to take fluids? every time i try and syringe water into his mouth he just lets it dribble out. I'm not even sure if he is weeing, let alone drinking. could this be a complication of the op? i think i will ring my vets first thing and see if i can get him in for a check. hes still lively enough(lively enough to push the food syringe away from him!) but just not quite right. any advice is welcome.

hes on my lap at the moment and it keeps seeming like he is trying to have a wee(hunching up his back like he did before the op) but he is in obvious discomfort and seems quite stressed. i really am quite worried about him. OH has just gone to some cucumber in a blender to see if he will accept that any better.

I'm also not liking the sound of his breathing, which I'm guessing is due to the aneasthetic :(poor poor Ordell
 
If Ordell is dribbling the water out,be careful only to put a coupla drops at a time.,he obviously has some trouble swallowing.The aneasthetic would not be the direct cause of a breathing problem after all this time.Respitory problems caused by aneasthetic develop in the first 24 hours.
Definately get him to a vet asap
 
its not that he has resp problems, its just that i can hear it a little bit and i could earlier on but forgot to mention it. i would be taking him to an emergency vets but I'm afraid that is too risky-the last time i went to the only emergency vets in my area my bunny died down to the awful vet we saw who told us he wasnt too bad-within 20 minutes of getting him home he was dead. please dont think I'm being irresponsible by not bringing him, i would be more so if i did. i pay out hundreds at my vets all the time for the best treatment possible-he would not get this at our emergency clinic.

if there is anything we can do tonight until i can get him to our usual vets in the morning please let me know. he didnt really want the cucumber either :-\ ive also noticed that he is walking sort of raised so obviously he is in pain and not wanting his incision site etc to touch the floor. the incision itself looks absolutely fine, nice and clean.
 
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