Wheekallweek
Adult Guinea Pig
They are big just adorable! 
You're doing an amazing job, they're both so lucky to have you!
You're doing an amazing job, they're both so lucky to have you!
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Tilted Head, which vet should I trust?
naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
Thank you so much!They are big just adorable!
You're doing an amazing job, they're both so lucky to have you!
But especially thanks for @Wiebke and everyone who helped me to sort things out when I am just a newbie! I am trying to do my best, getting their things little by little, I just I reordered the complete guinea pig layette today.
Also, still learning, reading a lot on this forum, threads and all of the guides.
naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
Update about Momo:
Momo finished Baytril 21 days antibiotics course twice per day. I noticed that his urine improved significantly, when walking and running he can keep his head stable (no tilt), but once he is stable (as sitting, eating or looking around) he keeps the same tilted head, it didn't get worse or better. Even not working completely in his tilt head I think it helped somehow since he is 100% more active and talking a lot, he isn't shy anymore and popcorn a lot. He even can stand upright using just two paws without feeling weak!
About the mites, it improved a lot, I barely see him scratching himself, two more rounds of ivermectin to go.
He has lost about 30-35 grams since starting baytril, but I have high hopes that he will recover with the weight, he is eating and drinking extremely well! Although he completely despises all types of bell peppers colors and cucumbers, he is loving to eat parsley, cilantro and lettuce (no iceberg kind!), also chayote which he loves (I did some research on the internet and it seems to be safe to feed him this squash...? I saw it was low in fat and sugar, high in fiber and fluid, also high in vitamin C).
During Baytril, some poos were in good consistency and others were completely diarrhea, this has now stabilized, with no more diarrhea, very great poo and urine!
I named the youngest male guinea pig "Bijou", they get along really well, neither of them shows signs of authority, It seems like they've lived together for centuries. Yesterday, I put corn husks in and Bijou didn't see it, Momo had seen it, went to Bijou's hiding place, they communicated, and Momo made Bijou come out of his hideout and showed him the corn husks location, the two started eating together, it was super cute.
I am waiting the guinea pigs accessories to arrive to improve their cage, also the fleece lines. For now, their cage is 12 ft sq but I am considering in buying a little bigger one in the future.
My next update here will be about Momo, university strike just ended today, exotic pet hospital attached to university is back, so in end of July I will be updating here about his tilt head with exams and tests!
Momo finished Baytril 21 days antibiotics course twice per day. I noticed that his urine improved significantly, when walking and running he can keep his head stable (no tilt), but once he is stable (as sitting, eating or looking around) he keeps the same tilted head, it didn't get worse or better. Even not working completely in his tilt head I think it helped somehow since he is 100% more active and talking a lot, he isn't shy anymore and popcorn a lot. He even can stand upright using just two paws without feeling weak!
About the mites, it improved a lot, I barely see him scratching himself, two more rounds of ivermectin to go.
He has lost about 30-35 grams since starting baytril, but I have high hopes that he will recover with the weight, he is eating and drinking extremely well! Although he completely despises all types of bell peppers colors and cucumbers, he is loving to eat parsley, cilantro and lettuce (no iceberg kind!), also chayote which he loves (I did some research on the internet and it seems to be safe to feed him this squash...? I saw it was low in fat and sugar, high in fiber and fluid, also high in vitamin C).
During Baytril, some poos were in good consistency and others were completely diarrhea, this has now stabilized, with no more diarrhea, very great poo and urine!
I named the youngest male guinea pig "Bijou", they get along really well, neither of them shows signs of authority, It seems like they've lived together for centuries. Yesterday, I put corn husks in and Bijou didn't see it, Momo had seen it, went to Bijou's hiding place, they communicated, and Momo made Bijou come out of his hideout and showed him the corn husks location, the two started eating together, it was super cute.
I am waiting the guinea pigs accessories to arrive to improve their cage, also the fleece lines. For now, their cage is 12 ft sq but I am considering in buying a little bigger one in the future.
My next update here will be about Momo, university strike just ended today, exotic pet hospital attached to university is back, so in end of July I will be updating here about his tilt head with exams and tests!
Attachments
naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
Just to reference, when Momo arrived, the next day I introduced baytril, before baytril his weight was 470g, today his weight is 451g and he is about 7 months old now (between weeks it fluctuated 30-35 grams). I am going to keep monitoring his weight and updating here once he goes to the vet.
fluffysal
Forum Donator 2024/25
You have done a great job with your lovely boys
Hi
It is great that your two boys are getting on so well and have cosely bonded.
It sounds like that is unfortunately as far s the head tilt will go but at least Momo can move round well and has no balance issues.
30g is an acceptable weight loss and one that he should recover from well after the end of baytril. You may find that Momo may never grow large. Baytril is an antibiotic that impacts on the poos so you are still within the acceptable range.
Piggies can eat squash - in that plant family the rule of thumb is that what humans can eat is also safe for guinea pigs to eat.
Momo is so lucky to have found you and you will hopefully find him a magical blessing for as long as you are given to have him in your life.
naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
Hello everyone,
Momo's appointment is on Monday with specialist exotic vet, he will also do x-ray. I'm 90% sure from watching Momo that he is like 80% blind and slightly deaf.
Now that I have Bijou, I realize the big difference in behavior between the two. Bijou watches and sees everything, and hears everything. Momo can barely see anything around him, and his auscultation is only for slightly louder noises. I also noticed that Momo, when he popcorns, sometimes (barely) he loses his equilibrium and falls, but stand up fast, this rarely occurs, but it is something I have noticed. The tilt head is the same, nor worser nor better.
I would like to ask for some tips on what to ask the vet, or what tests to order if he doesn't order the appropriate ones. Also, the most important thing I should report and highlight.
Despite everything, they are both very happy, eating well, normal poop, normal urine. And mainly, respecting each other.
Thank you in advance.
Momo's appointment is on Monday with specialist exotic vet, he will also do x-ray. I'm 90% sure from watching Momo that he is like 80% blind and slightly deaf.
Now that I have Bijou, I realize the big difference in behavior between the two. Bijou watches and sees everything, and hears everything. Momo can barely see anything around him, and his auscultation is only for slightly louder noises. I also noticed that Momo, when he popcorns, sometimes (barely) he loses his equilibrium and falls, but stand up fast, this rarely occurs, but it is something I have noticed. The tilt head is the same, nor worser nor better.
I would like to ask for some tips on what to ask the vet, or what tests to order if he doesn't order the appropriate ones. Also, the most important thing I should report and highlight.
Despite everything, they are both very happy, eating well, normal poop, normal urine. And mainly, respecting each other.
Thank you in advance.
You can ask the vet to check hearing and sight and see whether they can confirm your observations. Unfortuntely, the damage will be permanent and has likely been sustained before you got him.
Bijou will hopefully grow into a 'carer companion' who is looking out for his disabled mate. These kinds of bond can be very caring and they have a special dynamic.
naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
Thank you! I will reassure for the vet to check the hearing and sight in special.
I was looking on internet, and I saw it could have been caused by E.cuniculi, should I ask a test for this too? If so, should I make an appointment to Bijou?
Yes, they are very attached together. I am very glad they like each other!
I also have a question, since I know you are very experienced. Do you think Momo can have a good life? I mean, will he have the normal life expectancy of a guinea pig or could this mean he lives less? I am worried about him.
naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
I also should say I just discovered recently (precisely last week), the person I bought Momo from, it is a vet, he graduated in veterinary medicine at the end of last year.
I wish I could have asked him some questions, but he blocked me after selling Momo. And this vet works at a well-known lab vet clinic in my area.
I wonder if what happened to Momo was neglect or some test he did on him using Momo as a test subject. At his college they use rats as experimental animals, unfortunately, so it's in my mind whether Momo could have been used by this vet for this purpose.
Anyway, this guy is a terrible veterinary with no ethic... I was so outraged to learn that he is a veterinarian and let Momo get to this point and blocking me afterwards. For the people I know in my region who go to this vet clinic, I started to recommend not let their pets being seen by him...
Momo is lucky to have found you and he is assured to have as happy and fulfilled a life with you as any healthy piggy - or indeed, sadly many healthy piggies in less than good circumstances.
naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
Thank you again! That's relieving to know!Momo is lucky to have found you and he is assured to have as a happy and fulfilled a life with you as any healthy piggy - or indeed, sadly many healthy piggies in less than good circumstances.
I will update here again right after his appointment!
All the best for it.
What guinea pigs want from life is happy todays with piggy company and safe, good care; filled with love. They do not have a concept about average life spans. As long as you make Momo's time with you a good and loved one, it doesn't matter whether he has disabilities or not and how long he lives because you have given him what he wants and needs.
PS: Has your vet checked for a potential calcified bulla (middle ear capsule)? It is a problem that is currently making the rounds especially in North America. It is much rarer in Europe, where it is generally identified as a walled-in middle ear infection. I can't remember after jumping in between so many differet threads and with quite a lot going on off the forum.
CBS (Calcified Bulla Syndrome) and Neurological Problems - Symptoms and Care
naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
The thing is I am extremely attached to any animal I take care (currently I have three dogs and a tortoise! They are all at home with a good care, but Momo and Bijou are with me in university city), I do everything in my power to provide them with a good life...
Last year, my beloved dog Sonny, 15 years old, passed away from heart failure and cardiogenic pulmonary edema, it was very devasting, many trips to the vet and about 18 medications everyday, day and night... I did everything I could in my power, even though the cardiologist said it was a matter of days, he wasn't walking already for 6 months, but he always showed a huge interest in living even though he was sick and unable to walk, on his last day, at home, he gave me a special goodbye, which I just understood its meaning after his death... I still miss him a lot to this day.
Even being for a short time (about almost two months..?), I'm already very close and attached to Momo (still getting lots close to Bijou, but Momo is very dear to me, perhaps because he has this condition and reminds me of Sonny) when I return from university everyday, Momo makes a party in his cage when he hears my voice, it is extremely special, so I feel like perhaps I could increase his life expectancy doing something different or providing better care or checking if I am doing something wrong, and it gets me worried since he has this permanent disease... I was (and STILL am!) extremely mad last week when I discovered his previous owner was a vet and never cared about him!
I'm sorry if I went off topic!
I read about calcified bulla in a thread you made before! Since I got Momo, I have been reading a lot about guinea pigs in your threads (which helped me a LOT) and in some articles and videos. The two vets I saw before didn't say anything about this disease, so I think they don't know it, they also didn't say anything about Momo being blind, which I'm sure he is, because he doesn't see his food often even by his side, he follows the food scent, and due to the extreme difference in behavior compared to Bijou. I don't know if the vet from monday knows about it, but I will suggest for Momo being checked for this. But, In Brazil, veterinary medicine is not yet as developed as in other countries (most of guinea pig accessories I needed to buy internationally and take about two months to arrive!) mainly for animals considered "exotics", such as guinea pigs, I think there are few chances of them knowing about it, but I will ask if they know it. This is one of the reasons I joined this forum, because you are all so much experienced! So, if they don't know it, I will ask for the exam images and perhaps post them here?
Also, THANK YOU so much for the words above you said just now, it means a lot for me, I have a huge problem accepting life expectancy, after what happened to Sonny, which I need to work on this problem of mine. It reminded me that even though life expectancy is not long for them, like us humans, we must do and love them as much as we can in their time here on earth. I bought Momo knowing that his lifespan is around 5-9 years (extremely short, and if they are sick this can be even lower...), but what I hope most is that he lives longer than that, and above all, that he is happy as long as he lives (and Bijou too!)
Calcified bulla needs an x-ray - which your vet should have - and it is really obvious to see at the back of the head.
Please just give your pets a good life; it doesn't matter how long it lasts as long as it is a good one with you. It doesn't have to be a super life. It is our love and the care you are taking with Momo that he already adores you for. As far as his life is concerned, he has landed in paradise and the cleary trusts you fully. He has got a friend and he has you. He has plenty of food and feels safe. You are ticking all his boxes. He is happy.
If you want to add more, then concentrate on enrichment activities. The simplest and cheapest are and sharing them with Bijou and you is even better. Concentrate on activities that stimulate his other senses - smell, touch (textures) by hiding food etc.
Enrichment Ideas for Guinea Pigs
naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
Thank you again for the kind words! They truly mean a lot!
He will go through a X-ray, and I will make sure to also be positioned back on the head, not just only the body. They also have blood tests and biochemists exams. Echocardiogram and tomography, as soon as the exams are out, I'll post them here, and, if necessary, I'll do others. Everything he can make there, he will!
I missed this thread you sent when checking on forum, I am going to read it right now! I am still waiting some accessories to arrive, they really take a lot of time!
Once a week, I hide a few tiny pieces of carrot or tomato in some places in the cage as treat (I know we can't give much of them), and other times I hide some chayote (squash) which both of them love. Every time I hide a piece of tomato, Momo goes crazy haha.
This guide here contains comparison x-rays of healthy and affected bullas but your vet should know what a bulla is where to find it.
CBS (Calcified Bulla Syndrome) and Neurological Problems - Symptoms and Care
naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
I am in the vet right now with both. But they did not let me to get in in examination room, is this normal? They went to a separate room where I can't see what they are doing. At least with my dogs and also cats, they are always with me.
Hi
The little chamber used for sedating small animals for scans and operations is usually located in the pre-op preparatory area, which - for obvious reasons - is not accessible to clients. Dogs and cats are much larger so there isn't that problem.
You are always welcome to politely ask your why they are doing things in a certain way. If you are not confrontational or challenging, they will usually answer your questions. I have learned quite a bit of useful knowledge this way.
naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
In short: Terrible service. Extremely arrogant veterinarian. And apparently he didn't know anything.
When I arrived I described everything that Momo had since I got him, and regarding Bijou, I took him for a check up.
The vet was extremely arrogant when I said I used it on Momo "Baytril" and "Ivermectin" because according to him, they are completely wrong medicines (And I mentioned that these medications were recommended by a veterinarian!). And he still looked mocking at me when I said that I used a group of guinea pigs on internet to ask for better guidance.
They got up and went to examine them both, and they didn't let me enter the room (it wasn't to do the imaging exam) it was to do the check up exam! I heard one of them screaming, and I couldn't know what they were doing inside because they closed the door. I questioned the reason for all this (politely) and arrogantly the vet said that This is the procedure, and the animal becomes stressed in the presence of the owner. I questioned this saying that I've already taken him to two veterinarians and they both let me see the check-up evaluation in my presence.
I don't know what happened in there, when they came back with Momo, he was lying on the floor of the cage very tired, barely breathing. He reminded me of a dog with a heart attack. I questioned the vet and he said that Momo arrived like this, I completely denied it because I took several videos before going there of him being extremely active and running happily in the cage. Again, the vet made a mock face. He was unable to diagnose what Momo has, and said that an x-ray with sedation could be scheduled for next week. But honestly, I don't think I'll take him, after what happened today, I realized that he could even die during this anesthesia procedure. Since in a simple check up, they didn't let me see what they did, and he came back to me almost dead. (DETAIL: he told me to clean inside ears with a cotton swab and inside Momo's down bag everyday even being clean "because they are extremely dirty animals" wth!)
Regarding Bijou, they said he had a "parasite" they didn't say which one and gave him an injection of ivermectin. I questioned Bijou's eye being one bigger than the other, and they simply said that could be hay poke, but the eye is not inflamed or injured. Since my mother bought Bijou, his eye looked like this (one bigger one smaller), I questioned whether it could be glaucoma or a tumor, and the vet denied it. Again, they told me to clean and bath them everyday!
I honestly regret going to this vet, I feel like I did them more harm than good. Momo appears to be extremely tired, and almost died inside that room, I truly think he had a heart attack there, I am devasted (since they were with him for so long and when he came back he was barely breathing on the floor, he seemed dead) and Bijou is extremely tired now.
Honestly, although it is necessary to have an x-ray, unfortunately I think I will choose not to do it. It was very arrogant on the part of the vet, and I almost lost Momo, he didn't even take a look when I asked what happened to him because he was barely breathing!
I don't know what else to do, honestly, I've only found bad exotic vets so far, the best one was the second one, but his x-rays are extremely expensive. I can try to save some money and make the X-ray some months later with the second vet though.
And yes, it's an exotic vet, a veterinary hospital just for exotic animals. I asked the receptionist if there were many guinea pigs coming and she told me that it is very rare to see one, sometimes one every year. The most common are snakes and birds. So I think that's why the vet knew absolutely nothing about guinea pigs.
I'm feeling extremely guilty for putting Momo and Bijou through all of this. Currently they are in their cage now, Momo is apathetic but better than before and Bijou seems extremely sad and sleepy.
When I arrived I described everything that Momo had since I got him, and regarding Bijou, I took him for a check up.
The vet was extremely arrogant when I said I used it on Momo "Baytril" and "Ivermectin" because according to him, they are completely wrong medicines (And I mentioned that these medications were recommended by a veterinarian!). And he still looked mocking at me when I said that I used a group of guinea pigs on internet to ask for better guidance.
They got up and went to examine them both, and they didn't let me enter the room (it wasn't to do the imaging exam) it was to do the check up exam! I heard one of them screaming, and I couldn't know what they were doing inside because they closed the door. I questioned the reason for all this (politely) and arrogantly the vet said that This is the procedure, and the animal becomes stressed in the presence of the owner. I questioned this saying that I've already taken him to two veterinarians and they both let me see the check-up evaluation in my presence.
I don't know what happened in there, when they came back with Momo, he was lying on the floor of the cage very tired, barely breathing. He reminded me of a dog with a heart attack. I questioned the vet and he said that Momo arrived like this, I completely denied it because I took several videos before going there of him being extremely active and running happily in the cage. Again, the vet made a mock face. He was unable to diagnose what Momo has, and said that an x-ray with sedation could be scheduled for next week. But honestly, I don't think I'll take him, after what happened today, I realized that he could even die during this anesthesia procedure. Since in a simple check up, they didn't let me see what they did, and he came back to me almost dead. (DETAIL: he told me to clean inside ears with a cotton swab and inside Momo's down bag everyday even being clean "because they are extremely dirty animals" wth!)
Regarding Bijou, they said he had a "parasite" they didn't say which one and gave him an injection of ivermectin. I questioned Bijou's eye being one bigger than the other, and they simply said that could be hay poke, but the eye is not inflamed or injured. Since my mother bought Bijou, his eye looked like this (one bigger one smaller), I questioned whether it could be glaucoma or a tumor, and the vet denied it. Again, they told me to clean and bath them everyday!
I honestly regret going to this vet, I feel like I did them more harm than good. Momo appears to be extremely tired, and almost died inside that room, I truly think he had a heart attack there, I am devasted (since they were with him for so long and when he came back he was barely breathing on the floor, he seemed dead) and Bijou is extremely tired now.
Honestly, although it is necessary to have an x-ray, unfortunately I think I will choose not to do it. It was very arrogant on the part of the vet, and I almost lost Momo, he didn't even take a look when I asked what happened to him because he was barely breathing!
I don't know what else to do, honestly, I've only found bad exotic vets so far, the best one was the second one, but his x-rays are extremely expensive. I can try to save some money and make the X-ray some months later with the second vet though.
And yes, it's an exotic vet, a veterinary hospital just for exotic animals. I asked the receptionist if there were many guinea pigs coming and she told me that it is very rare to see one, sometimes one every year. The most common are snakes and birds. So I think that's why the vet knew absolutely nothing about guinea pigs.
I'm feeling extremely guilty for putting Momo and Bijou through all of this. Currently they are in their cage now, Momo is apathetic but better than before and Bijou seems extremely sad and sleepy.
I am very sorry. Guinea pigs do unfortunately fall very much into the gap of not being on a general vet's curriculum but as a cheap children's (or in North America often teenage) pet not being 'exotic' enough to rate proper medical care, never mind expert care.
Sadly many piggy groups are not necessarily about a good standard of care. We are working hard to keep our forum a very special place for both piggies and their owners. Finding a good piggy vet can be very hard. A careful general vet who is willing to read up and learn can be much better than an uninterested or unknowledgeable exotics vet. Ring around and try to find the clinic within your reach that sees the most guinea pigs.
I hope that Momo is better again after his sedation? Please do not feel guilty. You have done your best to have them seen by what was supposed to be an experienced vet. Just book it under ' life experiences'. We have all got them. Going back a long time with guinea pigs and having learned most things the hard way, I have my fair share of 'life experiences' - lessons you cannot foresee and therefore not avoid. The crucial thing is that you learn from what has gone wrong and don't repeat the same mistake again. That is the way we grow as adults.
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naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
Yes, guinea pigs seems to be not properly cared by vets. I have tried some general vets I trust, but none of them want to attend guinea pigs.
He wasn't sedated, and didn't do any exam, the vet just did a general check up in a closed room with a vet student and said the X-ray with sedation is scheduled to next week, but I honestly think it is not a good idea to go.
What is worrying me a lot is that he seemed to have had a heart attack, he was on the cage floor, barely breathing and seemed like dead, and the vet said he was like that when he arrived (which he was not).
He is at home now, I just gave them some tomatoes since it is their favorite treats. Bijou didn't eat it, Momo ate it extremely slowly and is sleeping. I truly hope there are no consequences for going there today.
naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
Just a small update:
Momo is doing better after yesterday's appointment and a nice night rest! He is still afraid, and I noticed a bit of limping on his back right leg. But regarding all of this, he is doing much better than yesterday, he just came to welcome me when I woke up
! Bijou seems alright.
I plan to when I come back to my city take him to that second vet to a general check up once again (the one who prescribed baytril), and in about one or two months, do the X-ray with him, since it was lots less stressful.
Momo is doing better after yesterday's appointment and a nice night rest! He is still afraid, and I noticed a bit of limping on his back right leg. But regarding all of this, he is doing much better than yesterday, he just came to welcome me when I woke up
! Bijou seems alright.I plan to when I come back to my city take him to that second vet to a general check up once again (the one who prescribed baytril), and in about one or two months, do the X-ray with him, since it was lots less stressful.
fluffysal
Forum Donator 2024/25
Poor little boy has been through so much in his little life, it's good that he has you to care for him
Honey&truffle
Junior Guinea Pig
Is Baytril safe to take when treating for mites with xeno 450 mite treatment ?
naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
Xeno 450 is ivermectin, right? I don't know and I can't answer that, but Momo took ivermectin and baytril together for his weight, baytril for 21 days everyday twice a day 12/12 and ivermectin every Friday for 5 weeks, also I cleaned a lot his cage and the room to prevent any mites residue. He got better from the swollen testicles and weakness, also, better from the mites.
Each case is different, someone with more experience can answer you here
Honey&truffle
Junior Guinea Pig
Yeah it is ivermectin just like a vet strength one though. Do you know what strength yours was?Xeno 450 is ivermectin, right? I don't know and I can't answer that, but Momo took ivermectin and baytril together for his weight, baytril for 21 days everyday twice a day 12/12 and ivermectin every Friday for 5 weeks, also I cleaned a lot his cage and the room to prevent any mites residue. He got better from the swollen testicles and weakness, also, better from the mites.
Each case is different, someone with more experience can answer you here
My girl has an abscess at the moment so she’s on Baytril. She’s had 1 dose of the mite treatment because she’s got hay mites but need to do another in about a week time but she’s now started this antibiotic so unsure what to do.
naguya
Junior Guinea Pig
Momo's tablet was 0,25mg but I needed to cut it in four pieces for the dosage to be 0.25mg because the available tablet was 1mg (since his current weight was something about 470g) also, Bijou (something about 370g at the time) took the half of Momo's dosage (one tablet in four pieces, and the smaller piece divided into two, it was so hard to cut it). Momo's treatment lasted for 5 weeks and for Bijou was 3 weeks.
I saw on the internet later that the dose is 0.2mg/kilo. But I'm not a veterinarian and I can't answer adequately, you should seek information from your veterinarian. Bijou of the same weight recently had an injection of ivermectin (I don't know what the dosage was) for mites, since then, he stopped scratching himself.
I don't know if ivermectin will interfere with the antibiotic's action, if your girl has some serious liver problems maybe it will.
The vet who prescribed Baytril and Ivermectin for Momo said it was to be taken after the Baytril was finished. BUT, this vet doesn't have much knowledge about guinea pigs, and also, Momo was scratching a LOT, on the recommendation of an expert user here in this forum, I was suggested to start ivermectin along with baytril and everything worked out wonderfully!
Today, Momo no longer has mites and he is alright from whatever infection he was. The only side effect was a little diarrhea/soft poop.