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Tetley's Bladder Stone

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Caviesgalore (EPGPR)

Caviesgalore (EPGPR)

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I am hoping that mary or some of the other knowledge people on the forum will drop by shortly as I am rather concerned about Tetley my boar who had bladder surgery to remove a stone last week. We are due back at the vets on Friday to have his staples removed.

Tetley had his surgery on Wednesday of last week and has been remarkably bright ever since. He is eating well - hay, dry food and fresh food stuffs. He is on 0.2ml of Baytril for 6 days (seems a small dose to me, albeit that Tetley is a smallish piggy at around 2lb 2 oz) and although he was given a shot of painkiller on the day of surgery, he wasn't sent home with any pain meds. As I had some Metacam here I have been giving him a drop once a day, plus some Meadowsweet Syrup from Belinda at Galen's Garden as he still seems to be in pain when trying to go to the loo. He is not good at drinking, a problem lots of stone piggies seem to share, so I have been giving him water via a syringe. He has had a bit of a funny tummy and it seems to be when he is passing pellets that he is still in pain. He is not passing any blood - he is currently bedded on vetbed and towels. He is sharing his "hospital" home with his cagemate Curly and Tetley is driving Curly mad by eating nearly all the pellets that he passes, to the point of having his nose constantly pressed up against poor Curly's bottom!

We lost one of our beloved sows last summer to bladder problems, so I am watching Tetley like a hawk. Am I expecting too much of the little chap, after all he isn't even a week post op yet, or should I give the vet a ring before my visit on Friday (to see the nurse) to express my concerns. Any advise gratefully received. Thank you.
 
Poor old Tetley.I am sorry he is not doing so well.He should realy be starting to heal now,but some pigs do take longer.As he is alert and active and eating well,I would not worry too much at this stage.It is good news that he is eating Curlys pellets because these are full of vitimin B.
You are right about the Baytril dose being a bit low,I give 0.2ml twice a day.,but if the wound does not look infected,the 0.2ml is ok.

Belindas products are very good but I have not seen the meadowsweet Syrup you mention,does it contain vitimin C ?.If not a vitimin C supplement for about a week will help to boost the immune system.I often use Abidec,1 drop per day.

Is Tetley passing a normal amount of urine?.Piggies very often urinate and defecate at the same time which can be confusing as to whether it is the urine or the pellets being passed that are causing pain.If you are still worried it might ease you mind if you ring the surgery and haave a word with one of the nurses.

You have done exactly right in giving the Metacam
 
Hi

I had a piggie (Gordon) who had this op. It took him a good two weeks to get back to normal but he had been very poorly before the op. He was on Baytril, so we gave him Avipro (a probiotic) as well. As he couldnt get to his own pellets as he passed them, we made sure we kept them and fed the ones he wanted back to him. He was very grateful! We also syringe fed water to him twice a day for the rest of his life.

I never give my pigs Metacam. I had two pigs die within an hour of being given it and I'm a bit paranoid now! When my boar was neutered recently, I asked the vet to give him something else for pain, which he did (but I don't remember what, sorry).

If I were you, I would ring the surgery to ask about Tetley's pain.

It sounds like you're doing a great job of caring for Tetley and that counts for a lot! I wish him well.
 
Thanks for replying Mary. I am glad there are at least some positives in Tetley's behaviour - don't think Curly will be too glad to hear about the pellet one though!

I have just been upstairs to look at the Meadow Syrup and it doesn't say anything about Vit C on it, all it tells me is that it is a natural Salicylic Acid. Where can I get hold of Abidec Mary, will my local pharmacy stock it or even know what I am talking about?!

Having just checked on Tetley I have found a small amount of "pink" wee on his vetbed :'(. I would say that he is weeing little and often Mary, not what I would call a good stream. I have just called my vet and spoken to them about poor Tetley. The vet assured me that he was confident from the x-ray that Tetley only had the one large stone and they washed out his bladder etc. thoroughly so doesn't feel it is likely to be anything that they have missed. The vet said that it might be that Tetley is having a reaction to the suture material they used in surgery and that it is causing some sort of cystitis. I asked him about the Baytril dose and he agrees with me (and you Mary) that it is low now that he seems to be experiencing additional problems. He has told me to increase the dose to 0.2ml twice a day and also to give two doses of Metacam a day, one drop morning and night. Rob also suggested giving Tetley some orange, pineapple or cranberry juice as a way of increasing his vit C intake and as a way of getting more fluid into him. He said if he was having a reaction to the sutures then he might have to be on Baytril for up to six weeks as it can take this long for the sutures to dissolve (although more normally it is 2 - 3 weeks) and all the while they are in place they are a breeding ground for "bugs" to thrive.

As well as having an appointment to see the nurse re staples on Friday, I now have an appointment with Rob in the afternoon, just in case Tetley is no better.
 
saliciylic acid is a form of aspirin (acetysalicyic acid) and as you are giving Tetley Metacam it may be wise to take him off the Meadowsweet.

Abidec is a vitimin supplement for babies,available from any chemist and some supermarkets.

The sutures should dissolve in 2 weeks.

It is possible that the bladder wall is inflamed and possibly scratched.,and I am wondering whether acidic juices are a good idea.Yes they are full of vit.C but they could make the urine acid and more painful to urinate.If it were my pig I would just give the Abidec or a plain vit..C supplement.

I am glad the vet has agreed to increas the Baytril dose,but be careful with the Metacam.Just give the one dose(unless Tetley seems very uncomfortable) and wean him off it as soon as possible.Metacam is very affective but is not a very good drug for piggies because of their comparatively weak renal systems.Metacam has a side effect of kidney damage,but in low dosage and short term it is saafe for piggies. Unfortunately,at the moment,there does not seem to be any alternative pain relief for these little creatures.Hopefully,something will become availaable in the near future.Aneasthetic gases have improved enormously in the last few years and surgery is now much safer for piggies(given you have a piggy ecperienced vet of course.The surgeon can make all the difference).

I should think it was Rimydal that your vet injected.This is a very strong analgesic which lasts about 24 hours,but again can on ly be used very short term on piggies.

Weeing little and often is o.k. as long as the urinary output does not lesson.Get as much water into him as he will take as you nee3d to keep the bladder washed through.
 
hope the poor dear is going to be ok. sending love,hugs and kisses to you both. :smitten: :-* :smitten: glad you were able to speak to the vet, and sounds like you are doing a great job! :)
 
Thank you all for your input and I am so sorry to hear about your piggies popper.

I did wonder about the fruit juices Mary so I have to admit that I have continued with plain water. I managed to get some Abidec so will give him some at supper time (never heard of this before, so thanks for the tip). I managed to give Tetley his antibiotics early enough in the day to be able to give him a second dose before I go to bed - will keep a close eye on his output. I will stop the Meadowsweet for now as he is on Metacam and will try to keep the dose to once a day, weaning him off it as soon as I can.

I cut some nice long grass from the garden earlier this afternoon for the boys and it was lovely to hear Tetley purring as he tucked in with gusto - poor little man, breaks my heart to watch him when he's crying in pain.

Mary thank you so much for all your advice, I hope to be able to pass on your words of wisdom to someone in need one day - you are absolutely the right person to moderate this section!
 
Ok a quick update on Tetley - no real change unfortunately. He still seems reasonably bright, is eating well, taking his meds like a good boy but is still in pain when going to the loo and passing a little blood. Think I am going to be seeing the vet not the nurse tomorrow - at least I will have peace of mind that I am doing all I can, particularly as the weekend is looming.

Why is life never straightforward! I went to the chemist to get some Abidec vitamin C drops for children and they only have "multivitamin drops" not vitamin C by itself. I explained to the pharmacist why I needed it and he said he didn't think that one drop of the multivit, once a day, would do any harm and that the tiny amount of Vit D might actually help Tetley to absorb some of the calcium rather than it passing straight into his bladder. He checked all his pharmacy books and said he couldn't get me any liquid Vit C, apparently it is an "unstable" vitamin which usually comes in tablet form. Do you think that it will be ok to give the multivit drops and if not can you recommend anything else?
 
Holland and Barrett do a Rosehip Vit C syrup that I use for mine. I also use the GTN tablet by Oxbow from SPH Supplies.
My boy passed some blood in the first wheek after his op too. I used Rimadyl tablets as pain killers though as I'm not a fan of Metacam. The fact that he's eating is a good sign, a friends sow needed syringe feeding for 2 wheeks after her op (and is fine now :) ). I think I saw Abidec in Waitrose, try your local Supermarket.
 
Caviesgalore, sorry to hear Tetley's in a bit of pain at the moment, I hope he gets better soon.

I give one of my older pigs Abidecs multivitamin drops so they are safe to give (recommended by my rodentologist) O0
 


Glad to hear that Tetley is going to be checked tomorrow.
Gordon did pass some blood in his urine for a few days after the op, but it cleared and he went on to live for a further 2 years or so. He was freerange after the op and had a lovely life - and no recurrence of the bladder problem.

Hope all goes well and that Tetley feels better soon.
 
I use the Abidec multivitimin,you can get it in vitimin C only form,but I prefer the multi.As Karen said,the rosehip syrup is a very good way to get vitimin C into them.Waitrose does stock Abidec and so does Sainsburys.

Paws crossed for a quick improvement in Tetley.
 
Aw thanks for all the positive comments everyone and for the feeback on Abidec. I will give Tetley a dose the the Abidec multivit for now and will try to get some rosehip vitamin C when I'm next in town.
 
Just thought you might like to see a photo of my baby. Tetley is the cream piggy and Curly the chunky rex. Tetley is quite a slight chap, whereas Curly is huge - although you can't get an idea of the size difference from these photos.

100_2963.jpg


100_2967.jpg


As you can see the boys made short work of a pile of grass, by the time I went downstairs to get the camera it had nearly all gone! Tetley is pretty much the same, although he did run to the cage door and let me pick him up without a fight this morning, the first time since his surgery :). He usually climbs out of his hutch and onto my lap so I am hoping he is feeling a little better this morning.

He's still in pain when going to the loo, but I have cut the Metacam down to one drop once a day and he seems to be tolerating it. I picked up some more Baytril yesterday, we could be on this for several weeks. We have a vet check later this afternoon, plus staples out so will let you know how we get on later.
 
Back from the vets and pleased to report that Tetley is now stapleless! The vet seemed pleased with him and still thinks he is having a reaction to the suture material. We are still getting a little spotting but he would like me to cut the Baytril back down to 0.2ml once a day asap - might need to stay on it for anything up to 6 weeks - increasing it if the bleeding becomes more of a problem. Keeping my fingers crossed that things begin to settle down.
 
Glad to hear things are on the mend and hope he goes on well. Both your piggies look just lovely! :smitten: I have a cream self who is absolutely tiny (but makes up for it with energy and character)! Hugs to Tetley.
 
Tetley and Curly ar elovely! I'm glad Tetley is OK.

Can I ask, where do you get Baytril and Metacam from and what do they do? I would like to get a few emergency meds in in case either of mine get poorly.
Can anyone recommend a piggy First Aid kit?
 
Baytril and Metacam aare only available from a vet as they are p.o.m drugs.
 
Sorry about that,I pressed the send button by mistake before I had finished the message!.
Metacam i is an analgesic combined with antiinflammatory properties

Baytril is a wide spectrum antibiotic
 
Sorry, I am a bit thick - whats P.O.M drugs? I am going to ask the vet about getting hold of some when I take Jeremy in for his mites jab, also if I ever need to syringe feed them, what kind of food do you use? sorry to go off on a tangent, but I don't recall a thread about this.. i only have 2 piggies but want to be prepared in case they get poorly.
 
POM = prescription only medicine. You're not thick, asking is how we all learn and that's what this forum is about O0

POM drugs don't always have a very long shelf life and they have to be kept correctly otherwise they tend to "go off". I doubt that your vet will be keen to give you any such drugs unless you actually need them. They aren't cheap either so it is better to get hold of them if and when you need them. Also different types of antibiotics are used for different types of illness.

If I'm hand feeding piggies I use Science Recovery (available from your vet and most good pet stores). It is a powder that you mix with water to form a paste. You can also mix in baby food or pureed vegetables to make it more palatable. If you have another healthy pig you can mix in some of their pellets too as this helps build up good bacteria and balances the gut. Cavy Cuisines Critical Care is another good emergency standby (same principle a Science Recovery) but I haven't found that locally.

It is great that you want to get some store cupboard emergency supplies in. Syringes are always good to have on hand in varying sizes, I get mine from my vet. I usually havefew jars of organic vegetable baby food in the piggy cupboard. I am sure there must be a "piggy medical supplies" thread somewhere, perhaps some can add a link here if they find it?
 
Supplies List

I've started a new thread for a supplies list (and can already think of ones I've left out LOL!), please add any you have to that. If you buy something like Brloene eye drops can you add that they need disposing of after opening ie they won't keep, thanks :)
 
Fantastic Karen, just what we needed! Will have a look through my box of goodies to see what else I routinely keep in stock.
 
Great photos Caviesgalore, they are a pair of handsome piggies! Curly is a beautiful colour :smitten: Tetley's colouring is nice too, it reminds me of milky tea, his name suits him!
 
How can you tell if a pig has got cystitus or bladder stones? Just curious. My Honey occasionally whines when he passes urine but there's no blood and his poops are fine. He doesnt alwyas whimper though when he pees. Every now and again. Why? :-\
 
Whining/whimpering when passing urine is one of the signs. They don't have to have all of the signs eg blood etc.
I'm more inclined to believe that pigs passing blood have stones but thats just my opinion and they can pass blood with cystitis I believe.
 
Just a quick update on Tetley. Whilst he is still quite bright in himself and is currently tucking into some grass I have just cut for him he seems to be in a lot more pain this morning (have just given him his first dose of Metacam for about 4 days) and is passing quite a bit more blood in his urine. :(

He had his staples out on Friday of last week and the vet gave him a thorough check over. He still maintains that Tetley is probably having a reaction to the suture material and this has set off an infection. He has been on 0.2ml of Baytril twice a day for over a week. I am concerned that he seems to be getting worse, so have just spoken to the vet and asked whether we can try a different antibiotic.

We used Septrin before with good results on a bladder pig and I asked him if it was wise to try this. He agreed and has put some by for me to collect. I am just a bit concerned about the dose however, as it took him ages to work it out and it seems an awful lot. The strength/density of the Septrin that they have at the vets is 240mg per 5mls, which equates to 48 megs per ml, and he worked out that for a piggy of just over 1kilo I need to give 2ml per day, splitting the dose to 1ml at a time. He pointed out the obvious that I will need to administer it slowly to make sure he doesn't inhale it into his lungs. I think the quantity is large because the strength they stock isn't particularly high - I hope that all makes sense. Does this does sound right to you guys in the know.

Many thanks from Tetley and me!
 
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