Teeth trouble 5 year old sow

[Free Ranger]

That's really good news - it's so nice to read something positive before bedtime! Petri you've been very brave x
London vets eh?

 

[Bill & Ted]

Hope Petri is doing well x

 

[Pigmeister]

Hope Petri is doing well x

Thank you. Have just been on the forum checking about syringe feeding. He's gone off it a bit this afternoon. This morning he was looking for food, trying some hay and some veg. But a bit more reluctant this afternoon.

Should I be going by his appetite as in when I syringe feed stop when he's really resisting? Problem is he resists anyway so hard to tell. Once or twice he has just stopped struggling but not opened his mouth and gone very still - is that when he's really had enough?
He was eating a good bit of dill and cucumber along with syringe feeding- they were his rewards. But gone off these this afternoon apart from a bit of cucumber. He might be sick of them I suppose it's mainly what he's eaten by himself.

He's up to 900g so getting heavier at least.

He really likes the painkiller though, is my guinea pig a junkie?

 

[Bill & Ted]

Aw they all love the painkiller
The second day can be the worst as the pain meds they get in surgery and anaesthetic wears off so they often feel a bit beaten up and little mouths can be sore. Weigh everyday, you are looking for a similar weight give or take 30 gm either way. If you are getting a downward trend up the syringe feeding but encourage eating by hand feeding too. I used to give a few syringes full, then offer herbs, grass or veggies then go back to syringe feeding

 

[Pigmeister]

Aw they all love the painkiller
The second day can be the worst as the pain meds they get in surgery and anaesthetic wears off so they often feel a bit beaten up and little mouths can be sore. Weigh everyday, you are looking for a similar weight give or take 30 gm either way. If you are getting a downward trend up the syringe feeding but encourage eating by hand feeding too. I used to give a few syringes full, then offer herbs, grass or veggies then go back to syringe feeding

Ah brilliant thank you seem to have stumbled onto this way of doing it as well.

Still getting used to calling him HE haha

 

[Pigmeister]

So Petri is eating some veg- had a good bit of celery and kale this morning. But he doesn't seem to be able to eat hay. He's getting into the hay pile but coming out after a few mins having not really eaten much at all. But at least he's trying. Is it going to be a while before he can eat hay?

 

[Bill & Ted]

So Petri is eating some veg- had a good bit of celery and kale this morning. But he doesn't seem to be able to eat hay. He's getting into the hay pile but coming out after a few mins having not really eaten much at all. But at least he's trying. Is it going to be a while before he can eat hay?

yes,sometimes it can take a good while. Is he used to eating grass? Grass is a good substitute for hay but if he is not used to eating grass then go very carefully and build it up gradually as some piggies can occasionally get bloated. Keep weighing him daily to know if he is eating enough generally. I would continue to syringe feed him until you feel he is eating well, the weighing will help you with that decision
Teeth are really difficult to “get right” and unlike a lot of other animals they will not eat hay unless their teeth “feel right”, they also lose confidence because they’ve tried to eat hay and failed and they are really put off by that. Encourage with hand feeding too
Good luck

 

[Pigmeister]

yes,sometimes it can take a good while. Is he used to eating grass? Grass is a good substitute for hay but if he is not used to eating grass then go very carefully and build it up gradually as some piggies can occasionally get bloated. Keep weighing him daily to know if he is eating enough generally. I would continue to syringe feed him until you feel he is eating well, the weighing will help you with that decision
Teeth are really difficult to “get right” and unlike a lot of other animals they will not eat hay unless their teeth “feel right”, they also lose confidence because they’ve tried to eat hay and failed and they are really put off by that. Encourage with hand feeding too
Good luck

Thanks @Bill & Ted (love the name by the way)
When you say encourage with hand feeding, do you mean try to hand feed some hay? I had cut some up into small bits for him before the op and he did eat some of that. Will maybe try that again.
With all the rain the past few days I've not tried grass yet. I had read something about not giving them wet grass or at least being careful with wet grass because of mold.

 

[Bill & Ted]

You could try offering him different size pieces of hay. I wouldn’t shove it in his mouth though Just encourage him if you can. His mouth may still be sore, did you get painkillers from the vets?
If you manage to pick some grass spread it out on a paper towel so most of the rain is absorbed
You could place a bowl of plain porridge oats or masked pellets 8n his cage too

 

[Pigmeister]

You could try offering him different size pieces of hay. I wouldn’t shove it in his mouth though Just encourage him if you can. His mouth may still be sore, did you get painkillers from the vets?
If you manage to pick some grass spread it out on a paper towel so most of the rain is absorbed
You could place a bowl of plain porridge oats or masked pellets 8n his cage too

Thanks. He's got mashed pellets, soaked pellets and normal pellets in there and not having any of it haha. I got some Excel recovery pellets. He was eating them before and after the op but seems to have gone off. Maybe because he's full from syringe feeding.

Will definitely get him some grass and cut up hay today then thanks again.

 

[Pigmeister]

He's still on painkillers yes

 

[Bill & Ted]

If you think he’s eating ok then adjust the syringe feeding accordingly, it’s a balancing act as you do want to encourage him to be independent but not losing weight

 

[Free Ranger]

Hay is hard - physically hard. It's tough to chew if your mouth is tender or you're feeling a bit listless. Grass is a bit softer. Soaked pellets can be easy to eat unless they decide it's a bit weird and refuse to touch them! If I go that route I only leave the soaked ones out a few hours.

He really likes the painkiller though, is my guinea pig a junkie?

The girls are always hopeful when George gets his metacam. If you offer the empty syringe to Flora she very politely licks the end clean to get the last little dribble. But Louise will carefully take hold of the syringe and suddenly snatch it with a mighty yank and run as fast as her floof will allow to chew it in the corner. We try and give it George on the quiet to avoid her big nose pushing in!
Son calls her "Trainspotting".

 

[Pigmeister]

I love that haha

Good to know about the hay, that's the only thing that's worrying me. It seems like kale is reasonably tough as a green veg so seeing him eating that made me hopeful with the hay.
But he's still getting in, trying a bit and then just laying chilling out there with no chomping just to tease me.

Apart from that he seems to be doing well and getting back to more normal cheeky behaviour.

 

[Pigmeister]

Another Petri update:
Given him some grass which he has happily chomped most of. But he does seem to be struggling to tear and cut through some things. He likes thyme but I'll at times have to help him get the stick part out of his mouth, although he is eating some of that too. Same with mint.

I wonder if his issue now is more the front teeth

I've got his weight stable but around 900g. But realistically with syringe feeding given I only get 5-7 mls in a go- is maintaining his weight what I should aim for until he can eat hay? The vet did want him to be adding weight.

I'm trying the vetcal progel with him but he HATES it more than anything else. I'm watering it down a bit to at least get some in.

I also got Emeraid to go with the Critical Care. I think I saw somewhere that it has more calories than critical care, although less fibre- maybe worth giving him more of that than CC?

 

[Bill & Ted]

Another Petri update:
Given him some grass which he has happily chomped most of. But he does seem to be struggling to tear and cut through some things. He likes thyme but I'll at times have to help him get the stick part out of his mouth, although he is eating some of that too. Same with mint.

I wonder if his issue now is more the front teeth

I've got his weight stable but around 900g. But realistically with syringe feeding given I only get 5-7 mls in a go- is maintaining his weight what I should aim for until he can eat hay? The vet did want him to be adding weight.

I'm trying the vetcal progel with him but he HATES it more than anything else. I'm watering it down a bit to at least get some in.

I also got Emeraid to go with the Critical Care. I think I saw somewhere that it has more calories than critical care, although less fibre- maybe worth giving him more of that than CC?

You are doing a great job, the more he eats the more his teeth will wear nice and smooth. The vet may have shortened his front teeth often making them a little bit too short and blunt, again they will grown and sharpen as they rub together

 

[Pigmeister]

You are doing a great job, the more he eats the more his teeth will wear nice and smooth. The vet may have shortened his front teeth often making them a little bit too short and blunt, again they will grown and sharpen as they rub together

Thanks it's so good to have that reassurance.

 

[Pigmeister]

Vet check today. Wasn't great. Vet thinks we need to monitor him for 2 weeks and if no improvement still it's a quality of life issue.

He has had moments of seeming like he was perking up. He started eating some pellets by himself over the weekend.

But he still can't eat hay, is only eating softer vegetables and when he's in his pen he just sits in the same spot all the time.

Vet has said to continue with the painkiller plus support feeding and whatever veg he'll eat.

He's looking for food from me at times and when I'm syringe feeding he's wanting to eat veg during that, and pea flakes. But yesterday he was very feed up with the syringe feeding and not taking very much at all. But day before we'd managed to get an extra 10 g on him.

Don't know what to make of this again. He's 5 yrs old, he's lost his brother, maybe he's had enough. I don't want to drag it out for him. But judging by comments here it seems like teeth can just take a while to improve as well.

 

[Bill & Ted]

I’m afraid teeth problems are a viscous circle.
The teeth grow wrong for many different reasons they can get an illness that temporarily puts them off eating or a sore gum, abscess, even a bit of trapped hay. So the piggies starts reducing hay intake and choosing softer foods. The teeth overgrow/develop spurs so they can’t eat. They have dental work and unless it’s done perfectly then the guinea pig still can’t eat hay, hence the teeth overgrow again. There only has to be the tiniest little bit of tooth that’s sharp or not angle right and they are unable to eat the very food, hay, that keeps their teeth in tip top shape. It really is as difficult as that. I wish it wasn’t

This is the reason why we travelled with Ted to see Simon Maddock in Northampton who really was our last hope and with regular conscious dentals Ted lived a further 2.5 years plus a happy life and did return to eating hay. But it was ongoing and a huge commitment from us

 

[Pigmeister]

I’m afraid teeth problems are a viscous circle.
The teeth grow wrong for many different reasons they can get an illness that temporarily puts them off eating or a sore gum, abscess, even a bit of trapped hay. So the piggies starts reducing hay intake and choosing softer foods. The teeth overgrow/develop spurs so they can’t eat. They have dental work and unless it’s done perfectly then the guinea pig still can’t eat hay, hence the teeth overgrow again. There only has to be the tiniest little bit of tooth that’s sharp or not angle right and they are unable to eat the very food, hay, that keeps their teeth in tip top shape. It really is as difficult as that. I wish it wasn’t

This is the reason why we travelled with Ted to see Simon Maddock in Northampton who really was our last hope and with regular conscious dentals Ted lived a further 2.5 years plus a happy life and did return to eating hay. But it was ongoing and a huge commitment from us

I'm starting to wonder if hes telling me he's had enough. He's crawling up into my arms when feeding.
But I'm still getting some syringe feed in him and he's swallowing it.

Thanks B&T sorry think I'm just outpouring here

 

[Bill & Ted]

I'm starting to wonder if hes telling me he's had enough. He's crawling up into my arms when feeding.
But I'm still getting some syringe feed in him and he's swallowing it.

Thanks B&T sorry think I'm just outpouring here

Totally understand, it’s so horrible to see them not eating and looking so sad. You can only do your best. But I think it is an emotional rollercoaster of ups and downs it’s very hard on you so take great care of yourself x

 

[Pigmeister]

Totally understand, it’s so horrible to see them not eating and looking so sad. You can only do your best. But I think it is an emotional rollercoaster of ups and downs it’s very hard on you so take great care of yourself x

It has been hard. Have had one or two days just really feeling the pressure of it. He's worth it but it's still hard and I want to do the right thing by him. The mixed signals with having some appetite but still not on the hay is making me think around in circles.

 

[Pigmeister]

@Bill & Ted
I'm thinking it's probably time to let him go but just want to check- he's dropping hay a bit but he's able to chew other things. It seems to be more an issue of what he can get in his mouth rather than chewing. IS this by any chance his front teeth and that anything he's eating will help them but it might take time? I don't mean indefinitely.
Just wondering if its a case of letting him go tomorrow or better to give him a little more time.

 

[Free Ranger]

You'll be the one who knows him best.

When my girl had a dental they did the back teeth but not the front. At the time it wasn't an issue but it became an issue over the next week or so and she had to have them burred. Perhaps I've mentioned this already. But if your vet checked him over and thought all the teeth were the right length it might well be a more general issue. My George doesn't have problems with teeth because some days he's ploughing into quite tough hay and chewing on his cardboard haybox. But his antibiotics are affecting his guts and so some days I'm offering him a piece of leaf and he seems to struggle to eat it... it goes in and he champs at it - then it comes back out again with little tooth marks all over. On those days I cut it into strips, roll them and feed them in... and start to fret. But 2 days later he's eating efficiently again and it seems like my imagination. It's very hard to read exactly what's happening sometimes.

George is used to taking a ml of syringe food and then a little inch-square bit of leaf or something similar. He likes it on my lap with a fleece and a heat pad because he knows what's happening now. He'll even have a little nap afterwards some days. But he likes to get back in with the girls. I'm wondering whether Petri's feeling a bit down if he's a lone piggy now. Is he maintaining weight? Or, how much has he lost?

They often get a bit tired at night just like we do. See how things look in the morning x

 

[Pigmeister]

Thank you. The pressure of it got to me with my partner not being around. Been trying to figure it all out and decide what to do by myself. But she's been around tonight and made a difference. Will come back tomorrow.

 

[Pigmeister]

Hi again, feeling less pressured and worried sick today. Still worried etc but being able to talk it out loud with my partner has really helped and she's coming to the end of her crazy schedule for this month.

It is heartbreaking to see him wanting to eat hay but not being able to. There could be an underlying issue but he has an appetite, is eating a reasonable amount of other things, and trying to eat hay but still not able. My hope now is that it is the front teeth not being sharp enough.

Am tempted to try another vet around York but will leave that to next week. Don't want to put him through more prodding and poking as well really.

Thanks for the support again

 

[Pigmeister]

You'll be the one who knows him best.

When my girl had a dental they did the back teeth but not the front. At the time it wasn't an issue but it became an issue over the next week or so and she had to have them burred. Perhaps I've mentioned this already. But if your vet checked him over and thought all the teeth were the right length it might well be a more general issue. My George doesn't have problems with teeth because some days he's ploughing into quite tough hay and chewing on his cardboard haybox. But his antibiotics are affecting his guts and so some days I'm offering him a piece of leaf and he seems to struggle to eat it... it goes in and he champs at it - then it comes back out again with little tooth marks all over. On those days I cut it into strips, roll them and feed them in... and start to fret. But 2 days later he's eating efficiently again and it seems like my imagination. It's very hard to read exactly what's happening sometimes.

George is used to taking a ml of syringe food and then a little inch-square bit of leaf or something similar. He likes it on my lap with a fleece and a heat pad because he knows what's happening now. He'll even have a little nap afterwards some days. But he likes to get back in with the girls. I'm wondering whether Petri's feeling a bit down if he's a lone piggy now. Is he maintaining weight? Or, how much has he lost?

They often get a bit tired at night just like we do. See how things look in the morning x

His weight has been stable last few days. He's around 850 / 860g He was always a smaller pig although this is too small.

It's hard to tell if he misses Otley really.
I assume you mean with George you give 1ml then a leaf and repeat rather than you just get 1 ml into him?

I've gotten Petri to take 4 ml of mushed pellets this morning. Hoping switching to mushed pellets might prompt him to eat pellets himself.
Plus some salad veg and the high calorie supplement.

I like the heat pad cuddly feeding idea.

 

[Bill & Ted]

@Bill & Ted
I'm thinking it's probably time to let him go but just want to check- he's dropping hay a bit but he's able to chew other things. It seems to be more an issue of what he can get in his mouth rather than chewing. IS this by any chance his front teeth and that anything he's eating will help them but it might take time? I don't mean indefinitely.
Just wondering if its a case of letting him go tomorrow or better to give him a little more time.

I would think his incisors are too short if he is dropping food, if you place small bits of food in his mouth and he eats them then it could be his front teeth have been cut too short?

 

[Pigmeister]

I would think his incisors are too short if he is dropping food, if you place small bits of food in his mouth and he eats them then it could be his front teeth have been cut too short?

It's confusing. He's eating pea flakes and is oicking them up for himself and has eaten things like cucumber middles, banana, grated carrot, the green leaf from pak choi, parsley, dill, mint including stems. He had a small amount of grass yesterday earlier in the day although didn't seem interested again later in the day but scoffed a load of salad leaves.

We'll keep going into next week as long as he's eating a reasonable amount of something himself.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

It sounds like he could just do with his teeth tweaking slightly. Is there any way you could get him seen by Simon or Kim Maddock, at the Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton?