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Syringe feeding help

rhimorrison

rhimorrison

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
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Location
Glasgow
My girl isn't eating by herself, myself and the vets think that because she doesn't want to take the syringe we have hurt her throat or irritated it. They can't see any issues or feel anything there.

She had an operation on Monday, wasn't eating after and not producing poops, I then started to syringe feed her. Her guts started to move and she was pooping, not a lot but pooping.
I've got recovery food I bought from the vets but she doesn't like to take it, I've soaked her nuggets in water and tried that, she doesn't like it.
Even her fav fruit and veg she won't take as when she goes to bite she sort of gags.

Is there anything else I can try in a syringe or any advice on how I can get her to take a syringe without a fight?
 
Also I have been given gabapentin to give her twice a day - has anyone used this before and had any luck?
 
rhimorrison said:
My girl isn't eating by herself, myself and the vets think that because she doesn't want to take the syringe we have hurt her throat or irritated it. They can't see any issues or feel anything there.

She had an operation on Monday, wasn't eating after and not producing poops, I then started to syringe feed her. Her guts started to move and she was pooping, not a lot but pooping.
I've got recovery food I bought from the vets but she doesn't like to take it, I've soaked her nuggets in water and tried that, she doesn't like it.
Even her fav fruit and veg she won't take as when she goes to bite she sort of gags.

Is there anything else I can try in a syringe or any advice on how I can get her to take a syringe without a fight?
Click to expand...

Hi!

A piggy that doesn't want to take the syringe is not feeling like eating; nothing to do with the syringe hurting her. You have to be firm and push through this if you want to keep it alive. Sorry, there is no nice way around it. A piggy that is not eating is a dying piggy.


The gagging is worrying because it points to a swallowing problem; has your vet checked the mouth for overgrown back teeth or for oral thrush (a fungal candida infection in the mouth), something stuck in the teeth or - if you are very unlucky - she has lost the neurological ability to swallow; it is rare but can happen. I lost my Angharad this way.
You will have to syringe feed very slowly and about only 0.1-0.3 ml at once and then wait until she has swallowed again.

The poo output reflects the food intake from 1-2 days earlier. If there are very few and small poos, then your girl has not had enough to eat. The scales will tell you the current state. Are you weighing daily as recommended?
 
Wiebke said:
Hi!

A piggy that doesn't want to take the syringe is not feeling like eating; nothing to do with the syringe hurting her. You have to be firm and push through this if you want to keep it alive. Sorry, there is no nice way around it. A piggy that is not eating is a dying piggy.


The gagging is worrying because it points to a swallowing problem; has your vet checked the mouth for overgrown back teeth or for oral thrush (a fungal candida infection in the mouth), something stuck in the teeth or - if you are very unlucky - she has lost the neurological ability to swallow; it is rare but can happen. I lost my Angharad this way.
You will have to syringe feed very slowly and about only 0.1-0.3 ml at once and then wait until she has swallowed again.

The poo output reflects the food intake from 1-2 days earlier. If there are very few and small poos, then your girl has not had enough to eat. The scales will tell you the current state. Are you weighing daily as recommended?
Click to expand...


I have asked the vets every time I go in to check her mouth and explained and showed videos (videos are hard to see but I try and get any evidence I can) Yet they say that isn't an issue.

The vet today said to me that she really needs to start eating on her own, and not to be syringe fed, but I said if she doesn't eat I will step in and syringe feed her - i do only give her 0.2-0.3ml at a time but she still gags or has issues swallowing.

I contacted a vet in East Kilbride who was recommended on here for guineas and we have an appointment tomorrow.
I've been given Gabapentin to give her twice a day, so I've given her one does of it earlier and will do tonight. I'm sure Gabapentin is a muscle relaxer, sort of pain killer.

Yesterday morning she weighed 829
This morning was 811 (when I told the vet this they said she is still an okay weight because she is small all over)
I know that is a huge weight loss but I am trying to syringe feed her as much as she can take.
 
rhimorrison said:
I have asked the vets every time I go in to check her mouth and explained and showed videos (videos are hard to see but I try and get any evidence I can) Yet they say that isn't an issue.

The vet today said to me that she really needs to start eating on her own, and not to be syringe fed, but I said if she doesn't eat I will step in and syringe feed her - i do only give her 0.2-0.3ml at a time but she still gags or has issues swallowing.

I contacted a vet in East Kilbride who was recommended on here for guineas and we have an appointment tomorrow.
I've been given Gabapentin to give her twice a day, so I've given her one does of it earlier and will do tonight. I'm sure Gabapentin is a muscle relaxer, sort of pain killer.

Yesterday morning she weighed 829
This morning was 811 (when I told the vet this they said she is still an okay weight because she is small all over)
I know that is a huge weight loss but I am trying to syringe feed her as much as she can take.
Click to expand...

Hi!

I am very sorry, but you cannot withdraw support feeding from a guinea pig and expect it to eat on its own; it doesn't work like that with them. A piggy that is not eating is a dead piggy; they will only stop if they are too ill or not able to eat because eating is very closley tied to their survival instinct. Gabapentin is a painkiller.

Good that you are trying another vet who is hopefully more piggy savvy.

The weight loss is not massive, but I am sure that it is part of an ongoing and continuing downward trend, so not good news in that respect.
Since the difference between a full and empty bladder is 10g and the difference between a full and empty stomach 30-40g, we are talking of weight loss only after an initial loss of 50g. That is why it is so important to weigh at a similar time in the feeding cycle when weighing daily. I prefer to weigh first thing in the morning when the weight is lowest, so I have a clear comparison from day to day and can increase the feeding frequency or support accordingly - or start easing off during recovery. But as your vet has not found the cause and is not addressing it, recovery is not yet an option.

All the best!
 
Wiebke said:
Hi!

I am very sorry, but you cannot withdraw support feeding from a guinea pig and expect it to eat on its own; it doesn't work like that with them. A piggy that is not eating is a dead piggy; they will only stop if they are too ill or not able to eat because eating is very closley tied to their survival instinct. Gabapentin is a painkiller.

Good that you are trying another vet who is hopefully more piggy savvy.

The weight loss is not massive, but I am sure that it is part of an ongoing and continuing downward trend, so not good news in that respect.
Since the difference between a full and empty bladder is 10g and the difference between a full and empty stomach 30-40g, we are talking of weight loss only after an initial loss of 50g. That is why it is so important to weigh at a similar time in the feeding cycle when weighing daily. I prefer to weigh first thing in the morning when the weight is lowest, so I have a clear comparison from day to day and can increase the feeding frequency or support accordingly - or start easing off during recovery. But as your vet has not found the cause and is not addressing it, recovery is not yet an option.

All the best!
Click to expand...


Saw the vet yesterday!

The first vet said there was nothing wrong with her mouth, but this new vet has said she has oral thrush! Which makes sense for the not able to eat but the want is there. Also I mentioned about the weight loss and how I am worried, she had given me a higher calorie food to give her in the morning and at night (normal oxbow critical care to be given during the day) obviously the high calorie food doesn't have enough vitamins or fiber but the oxbow critical care covers that.
We have daktarin to give her twice a day to help reduce the thrush. Hopefully over the weekend that will reduce the sore spots and we can see where to go from there!
As for the weight loss, it is a lot but she is a very small little lady so she has always weighted a lot less than my other girls. That can be helped by the high calories food.
The vet said this could indicate kidney problems but we want to get her eating alone first and fully recovered from the operation and then we can look into any under lying issues, if any.
She gave me her work email to keep her updated on girl, if I have any concerns or questions to let her know (which I think is amazing)

We have a long long road ahead of us and I will do anything I can to make her life with me better. I adopted Sweetie from our local guinea pig adoption center and she is such a bright and amazing little girl. Feisty and tough 💞
 
Also we have upped her pain killer lexicon to help as the vets before said she needed 0.17 of pain killer once a day.

Even after using the gel once last night, leaving her a few hours before her midnight feed and she was more active and sniffing the oxbow critical care, which every other time she showed no interest.
 
I’m glad you finally got an answer! What’s the high calorie food you were given?
 
Siikibam said:
I’m glad you finally got an answer! What’s the high calorie food you were given?
Click to expand...

If it wasn't for the coronavirus I would have given the vet the biggest hug ever, such a relief to actually know what is going on with her.

Emerald IC Herbivore - is the food.

I only give her a few ml in the morning and at night. Rest of the time it is the other critical care
 

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rhimorrison said:
Saw the vet yesterday!

The first vet said there was nothing wrong with her mouth, but this new vet has said she has oral thrush! Which makes sense for the not able to eat but the want is there. Also I mentioned about the weight loss and how I am worried, she had given me a higher calorie food to give her in the morning and at night (normal oxbow critical care to be given during the day) obviously the high calorie food doesn't have enough vitamins or fiber but the oxbow critical care covers that.
We have daktarin to give her twice a day to help reduce the thrush. Hopefully over the weekend that will reduce the sore spots and we can see where to go from there!
As for the weight loss, it is a lot but she is a very small little lady so she has always weighted a lot less than my other girls. That can be helped by the high calories food.
The vet said this could indicate kidney problems but we want to get her eating alone first and fully recovered from the operation and then we can look into any under lying issues, if any.
She gave me her work email to keep her updated on girl, if I have any concerns or questions to let her know (which I think is amazing)

We have a long long road ahead of us and I will do anything I can to make her life with me better. I adopted Sweetie from our local guinea pig adoption center and she is such a bright and amazing little girl. Feisty and tough 💞
Click to expand...

Glad that you have finally got a diagnosis!

Oral thrush causes swallowing problems, so that accounts for the loss of weight.

Please use your scales to control the feeding support accordingly - you have to feed the more often the less she can take in one go; up to every second hour during the day plus a night feed. Ideally you aim as close as possible for 60 ml in 24 hours; everything more is a bonus. It is a very exhausting struggle but it is worth it.
Weight - Monitoring and Management
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

Is the daktarin just gel? Oral thrush and other candida infections in difficult to reach areas (of which the inside of the mouth and throat is one) are best treated with a systemic fungal; it works even if it is not licensed.
@furryfriends (TEAS)

What extra feeding product have you been given?
 
Wiebke said:
Glad that you have finally got a diagnosis!

Oral thrush causes swallowing problems, so that accounts for the loss of weight.

Please use your scales to control the feeding support accordingly - you have to feed the more often the less she can take in one go; up to every second hour during the day plus a night feed. Ideally you aim as close as possible for 60 ml in 24 hours; everything more is a bonus. It is a very exhausting struggle but it is worth it.
Weight - Monitoring and Management
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

Is the daktarin just gel? Oral thrush and other candida infections in difficult to reach areas (of which the inside of the mouth and throat is one) are best treated with a systemic fungal; it works even if it is not licensed.
@furryfriends (TEAS)

What extra feeding product have you been given?
Click to expand...


I've got a timetable of when to feed her so I can keep myself right, also marking down every time we feed how much she is able to take without getting overly stressed, also includes time for cuddles between syringe feeds to settle both of us down. She does love to run head first right into my throat for a cuddle.
As for night feeds we do our last feed around 12pm/1am and then I'm up at 4/4:30am for another feed then around 7/8am when I'm up. I'm self employed so I've managed to move appointments and take the time off I need for her.

Daktarin gel is what we got from the pharmacy! I've to put a small bit on my finger and pop it onto the inside of both her cheeks, also I put a little on her top lip where I can see a slight bit. Will be doing this twice a day for 10-14 days then do another check up to see if it has cleared up.
I'm going email the vet Sunday evening and update her on how Sweetie is and try and get her booked in for a check up on Tuesday just to see if the gel is helping, also just a general check up.

As for other food I have the stuff above and this below. Also can soak some nuggets if she starts getting bored with what I've got here. The pro - c probiotic is made fresh every time, the extra that doesn't get used when I make it gets put into a clean water bottle for her sisters to drink because its a scoop of powder with 200ml of water which is changed often to keep fresh.

Checked all of the above with the vet and she was happy to proceed. If the check up on Tuesday goes ahead and the vet wants me to try another vit c powder then I can get that instead.

Any other suggestions are always welcome!
 

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Wiebke said:
Hi!

I am very sorry, but you cannot withdraw support feeding from a guinea pig and expect it to eat on its own; it doesn't work like that with them. A piggy that is not eating is a dead piggy; they will only stop if they are too ill or not able to eat because eating is very closley tied to their survival instinct. Gabapentin is a painkiller.

Good that you are trying another vet who is hopefully more piggy savvy.

The weight loss is not massive, but I am sure that it is part of an ongoing and continuing downward trend, so not good news in that respect.
Since the difference between a full and empty bladder is 10g and the difference between a full and empty stomach 30-40g, we are talking of weight loss only after an initial loss of 50g. That is why it is so important to weigh at a similar time in the feeding cycle when weighing daily. I prefer to weigh first thing in the morning when the weight is lowest, so I have a clear comparison from day to day and can increase the feeding frequency or support accordingly - or start easing off during recovery. But as your vet has not found the cause and is not addressing it, recovery is not yet an option.

All the best!
Click to expand...


What do you think about trying to mix her critical care with baby food?
 
rhimorrison said:
What do you think about trying to mix her critical care with baby food?
Click to expand...

You can mix a little of it into the syringe feed if you think that it will go down better. But please be aware that hay fibre is still crucial for the gut and that too much veg is not good in the medium term as it can derail the gut microbiome.
I would not add more than 1 part veg to 4 parts critical care, which roughly reflects the normal proportions in the diet.
 
Have you tried Sweetie with porridge oats, my Ted has dental issues but always manages to eat plain porridge oats. They are great for chunking up piggies and encouraging them to eat from a bowl unaided.
 
What oats are good?
Sweetie has oral thrush and has been on daktarin since Friday night. She tried to nibble veggies but has no luck. She wants to eat but I think her throat and mouth are just too sore.

I've got a check up at the vets Wednesday afternoon where the vet will be able to check her mouth. She had an ulcer on her top lip which has gone.
 
Bill & Ted said:
Have you tried Sweetie with porridge oats, my Ted has dental issues but always manages to eat plain porridge oats. They are great for chunking up piggies and encouraging them to eat from a bowl unaided.
Click to expand...

I have rolled oats in the house, no flavourings. I don't know if that would be any good
 
I give mine plain oats mixed with grated apple, carrots or sweet potato.
That seems to be easy to eat and helps boost weight.
Hope the Daktarin takes effect soon and her mouth is less sore.
 
Merab's Slave said:
Just give oats plain, no water needed
Click to expand...

I've tried and she isn't interested :(
Guess I just need to stick with syringe feeding for just now. We are only 3 full days (4 including tonight's dose of daktarin) so fingers crossed she will start wanting to eat by herself.
Just so worried that she won't, makes me cry.
She also has raspy breathing which I have been giving her baytril but that doesn't seem to be easing it.
 
I usually just leave a ramekin dish with the oats and veggies in the cage.
True, the other piggies help to eat it but there’s always some for the sick piggy.

You sound as if you’re doing a really good job for Sweetie.
Holding you in my heart
 
Merab's Slave said:
I usually just leave a ramekin dish with the oats and veggies in the cage.
True, the other piggies help to eat it but there’s always some for the sick piggy.

You sound as if you’re doing a really good job for Sweetie.
Holding you in my heart
Click to expand...

Here is my small baby a few days before her operation. She is so tiny 💞
 

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We had a piggy with severe oral thrush and it was heartbreaking trying to syringe feed him, as it was clearly hurting him so much. We used the oral medicaton, Itrafungol, to treat him, with great results. The first thing he was able to eat was parsley, and he could manage it, if I gave it to him stalk first. He was also on twice a day Metacam.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
We had a piggy with severe oral thrush and it was heartbreaking trying to syringe feed him, as it was clearly hurting him so much. We used the oral medicaton, Itrafungol, to treat him, with great results. The first thing he was able to eat was parsley, and he could manage it, if I gave it to him stalk first. He was also on twice a day Metacam.
Click to expand...

How long before he was able to eat anything? My girl shows interest, perks up when she hears the lettuce coming out and sniffs everything with interest but she isn't yet eating.
We are finally managing to get a small amount of weight on her. Yesterday she gained 3 grams, this morning another 12 grams. Not much but it is something.
 
rhimorrison said:
How long before he was able to eat anything? My girl shows interest, perks up when she hears the lettuce coming out and sniffs everything with interest but she isn't yet eating.
We are finally managing to get a small amount of weight on her. Yesterday she gained 3 grams, this morning another 12 grams. Not much but it is something.
Click to expand...
A couple of weeks, or maybe even a little longer! It felt like such a long time too! I agonised over whether I should let him go, as he was so miserable. The fungal spread to the outside of his mouth too and his lips and nose were scabby. Simon, my vet, kept telling me he was improving, even if I couldn't see the benefits yet. He was weighing just over 750g and he was a big piggy normally. When he started to improve it all happened fairly quickly. He is now HUGE! He weights around 1.3 kilos!
 
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