Wheekallweek
Adult Guinea Pig
How sad you have to make this decision, whatever you choose will be done with love and Fudge will know that 
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Sad times, could do with some feedback/support. What shall I do?
- Thread starter Gadzy
- Start date
Bertie & Jelly
Forum Donator 2024/25
So sorry to hear you are going through this. My 4 yo skinny Jellybaby had a lump on his tummy last year - the fine needle aspiration also revealed dead cells so I can understand how conflicted you feel. There is good advice above about discussing palliative care with your vet so you have all the options available to you when making your decision. It will still be an agonising one but it has to be the one that feels right for you and your piggie. It’s easy to say and sometimes hard to do when a piggie is poorly but try to focus on the happy moments with Fudge. Thinking of you and Fudge
I don’t think any of us are properly geared up to this kind of decision making. It really isn’t part of normal life and really does weigh very heavily on us. Whatever decision you make will not be wrong as there is no right or wrong decision in a case like this. I think so many of us share your pain in this respect as we have been in your shoes (or very similar ones) with our own piggies over the years. Sending you strength and support as you deal with this sad situation.
Gadzy
Junior Guinea Pig
What was the outcome with your Jellybaby? Did you operate or just leave it? What happened?So sorry to hear you are going through this. My 4 yo skinny Jellybaby had a lump on his tummy last year - the fine needle aspiration also revealed dead cells so I can understand how conflicted you feel. There is good advice above about discussing palliative care with your vet so you have all the options available to you when making your decision. It will still be an agonising one but it has to be the one that feels right for you and your piggie. It’s easy to say and sometimes hard to do when a piggie is poorly but try to focus on the happy moments with Fudge. Thinking of you and Fudge
Also thankyou all for such lovely supporting posts.
Bertie & Jelly
Forum Donator 2024/25
I agonised about the decision but had the lump removed because it was very accessible on his tummy, far enough away from organs and therefore quick to do with short anaesthetic time. But more lumps soon appeared so in hindsight it didn’t really give him more time and so I just accepted that giving him a good end of life, however long, was the best I could do for him and enjoyed making memories whilst he was still a goofy little chap
Bill & Ted
Forum Buddy
It’s a hard decision, I feel for you 
Whatever you decide will be the right one
Whatever you decide will be the right oneGadzy
Junior Guinea Pig
Hi all,
I just don’t know what to do, I need to ring him tomorrow and my minds just going round in circles. What if it isn’t cancer and just a simple operation or what if I do it and it’s a lot worse than thought and she goes there and then from the operation. Either decision I’m going to be kicking myself. Do you think a blood sample would narrow anything down or not really? I could ask him to try that? Also if it was an abscess the results would have come back with that surely? This whole coming back with dead cells is strange. Although @Bertie & Jelly said they had a similar result and lumps grew back, but if he removed the whole uterus that could get rid of it, but then if it’s cancer it could have spread. I’m panicking
I just don’t know what to do, I need to ring him tomorrow and my minds just going round in circles. What if it isn’t cancer and just a simple operation or what if I do it and it’s a lot worse than thought and she goes there and then from the operation. Either decision I’m going to be kicking myself. Do you think a blood sample would narrow anything down or not really? I could ask him to try that? Also if it was an abscess the results would have come back with that surely? This whole coming back with dead cells is strange. Although @Bertie & Jelly said they had a similar result and lumps grew back, but if he removed the whole uterus that could get rid of it, but then if it’s cancer it could have spread. I’m panicking
Gadzy
Junior Guinea Pig
So in theory it was cancer even though it came back as dead cells? It could be the same situation for me. I think if I knew it was cancer I would not operate on itSo sorry to hear you are going through this. My 4 yo skinny Jellybaby had a lump on his tummy last year - the fine needle aspiration also revealed dead cells so I can understand how conflicted you feel. There is good advice above about discussing palliative care with your vet so you have all the options available to you when making your decision. It will still be an agonising one but it has to be the one that feels right for you and your piggie. It’s easy to say and sometimes hard to do when a piggie is poorly but try to focus on the happy moments with Fudge. Thinking of you and Fudge
I’d ask your vet for their realistic assessment of what they think it is. That might help you with this decision x
Bertie & Jelly
Forum Donator 2024/25
I agree with @VickiA. Do talk to your vet who examined your piggie as every case is unique x
Mikatelyn
Junior Guinea Pig
To clarify the dead cells in an FNA on a tumor: cancerous tumors can grow large enough that they outstrip the blood supply, so parts of the tumor can die off. To make it even more confusing, then those areas can get a secondary infection and you can ALSO have an abscess within a cancerous tumor.
I feel for you. The decision is agonizing.
I feel for you. The decision is agonizing.
Wheekallweek
Adult Guinea Pig
I suppose you could go for the op, and depending on what they find they could send her over the Rainbow Bridge whilst she's under anaesthetic if they think that's the best thing? At least then you know you've really tried everything x
Gadzy
Junior Guinea Pig
Would a blood test be of any use or not really? Don’t know what blood test results would show?
Wheekallweek
Adult Guinea Pig
Hm I'm not sure really. I suppose a raised white blood cell count could indicate an infection, but I'm not sure if anything else could cause that too.
Gadzy
Junior Guinea Pig
Hello all,
Just an update on Fudge that she isn’t much better and I have been trying to process the information for a few days and think of a decision. I’m sadly leaning towards putting to sleep. I’m not sure putting her through an operation when she is this underweight and ill will do any good. I spoke to the vet a couple of days ago and he said have a think about it over Christmas because you don’t want a recovering ill guinea pig over the Christmas period when you can’t attend to her as much as possible with things going on. I still don’t know if it’s cancer or what the problem actually is, but I think the vet does feel it’s uterus cancer. The operation would be a spay but not a standard one as it’s a little more complicated and then send away for proper analysis. This would all cost about 500 with lab testing too. Personally if I knew it was cancer I would have a much easier decision. It’s not knowing if it’s benign and the possibility of recovery and getting through the operation. Do you think I’m a bad owner if I PTS soon when there is a possibility it’s not cancer? I feel stuck in limbo and to spend 500 without actually knowing if it’s cancer or not is difficult. If I knew what it was etc then I’d be able to make a more clarified decision. I asked the vet if it could be an abscess, but he said he didn’t think it was fluid filled and the shape and feel of it. I don’t know if anyone on here has ever PTS on these sort of circumstances where your not sure but it’s all abit in limbo and twitchy?
She seems to be eating her greens and very excited for them, but hay etc is very sparse. I am guessing greens is the last type of food to go in terms of appetite?
Appreciate all your time and I hope you all have a lovely Christmas.
Just an update on Fudge that she isn’t much better and I have been trying to process the information for a few days and think of a decision. I’m sadly leaning towards putting to sleep. I’m not sure putting her through an operation when she is this underweight and ill will do any good. I spoke to the vet a couple of days ago and he said have a think about it over Christmas because you don’t want a recovering ill guinea pig over the Christmas period when you can’t attend to her as much as possible with things going on. I still don’t know if it’s cancer or what the problem actually is, but I think the vet does feel it’s uterus cancer. The operation would be a spay but not a standard one as it’s a little more complicated and then send away for proper analysis. This would all cost about 500 with lab testing too. Personally if I knew it was cancer I would have a much easier decision. It’s not knowing if it’s benign and the possibility of recovery and getting through the operation. Do you think I’m a bad owner if I PTS soon when there is a possibility it’s not cancer? I feel stuck in limbo and to spend 500 without actually knowing if it’s cancer or not is difficult. If I knew what it was etc then I’d be able to make a more clarified decision. I asked the vet if it could be an abscess, but he said he didn’t think it was fluid filled and the shape and feel of it. I don’t know if anyone on here has ever PTS on these sort of circumstances where your not sure but it’s all abit in limbo and twitchy?
She seems to be eating her greens and very excited for them, but hay etc is very sparse. I am guessing greens is the last type of food to go in terms of appetite?
Appreciate all your time and I hope you all have a lovely Christmas.
piggl
Forum Donator 2024/25
I am so sorry to hear of the predicament you are in.
Unfortunately yes, many of us on here have also been in such a trying and strange situation. Where you are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and we have to be the ones to decide.
There’s a quote I saw in here, when I was going through a decision like this myself, it goes along the lines of “better a day too early than a minute too late”.
Realistically, the decision you are making is out of love and care for your beautiful fudge, so there is no real “right or wrong”.
I’ll share my experience with having to make the decision, I hope it will make you feel less alone.
One day one of my boars became very lethargic and he wasn’t eating at all, we rushed him to the vets and he was in gut stasis. We spent a little over a month medicating him with everything we could, he was getting around 5 feeds a day to keep his stomach going.
With no end in sight we decided to put him under anaesthetic to check his teeth and do an x-ray. We found that all his molars were growing the wrong direction. The bottom set going one way and the top set the other, they weren’t touching or ‘grinding’ at all. His teeth were shaved and he recovered well from the anaesthetic.
Only around 3 weeks later, from his dental, he started to slow down again. His poops were becoming irregular and he didn’t want to each much anymore. Unfortunately his teeth were growing back very quickly, and without access to conscious dentals, to put him under anaesthetic every 3-4 weeks wasn’t doable with his age, or in any piggy really.
So even when he seemed “fine” (he was filled with medication), I decided to put him down, just 5 weeks after his dental.
I struggled with guilt around it a lot, did I do the right thing, what else could I have done. But eventually over time I came to peace with it, I loved my boy so much and all I wanted was for him to not be in pain anymore.
With whatever decision you make, I wish you all the best and a merry christmas when the time comes x
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
Unfortunately yes, many of us on here have also been in such a trying and strange situation. Where you are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and we have to be the ones to decide.
There’s a quote I saw in here, when I was going through a decision like this myself, it goes along the lines of “better a day too early than a minute too late”.
Realistically, the decision you are making is out of love and care for your beautiful fudge, so there is no real “right or wrong”.
I’ll share my experience with having to make the decision, I hope it will make you feel less alone.
One day one of my boars became very lethargic and he wasn’t eating at all, we rushed him to the vets and he was in gut stasis. We spent a little over a month medicating him with everything we could, he was getting around 5 feeds a day to keep his stomach going.
With no end in sight we decided to put him under anaesthetic to check his teeth and do an x-ray. We found that all his molars were growing the wrong direction. The bottom set going one way and the top set the other, they weren’t touching or ‘grinding’ at all. His teeth were shaved and he recovered well from the anaesthetic.
Only around 3 weeks later, from his dental, he started to slow down again. His poops were becoming irregular and he didn’t want to each much anymore. Unfortunately his teeth were growing back very quickly, and without access to conscious dentals, to put him under anaesthetic every 3-4 weeks wasn’t doable with his age, or in any piggy really.
So even when he seemed “fine” (he was filled with medication), I decided to put him down, just 5 weeks after his dental.
I struggled with guilt around it a lot, did I do the right thing, what else could I have done. But eventually over time I came to peace with it, I loved my boy so much and all I wanted was for him to not be in pain anymore.
With whatever decision you make, I wish you all the best and a merry christmas when the time comes x
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
Bill & Ted
Forum Buddy
Thinking of you, whatever decision you make will be the right one. If you have think it’s kinder for Fudge to be helped over the bridge see it as your last act of love
Sending you much support as you battle with this decision. It’s never easy. Hugs x
Bertie & Jelly
Forum Donator 2024/25
I’m so sorry you are agonising over the decision. It’s a lot for both you and Fudge to go through. All I can say is I’m thinking of you. Try to enjoy your time with her over Christmas and make peace with your decision
Wheekallweek
Adult Guinea Pig
Oh I'm so sorry she's no better. Whatever decision you choose will be made with love for Fudge. Either way all she will know is she is loved, and as @piggl said, it's better a day too early than a day too late.
Enjoy Christmas with her with no ties and see how you feel after a few days. She's still feeling good enough to eat her greens so there's no harm in it. Spoil her rotten
Enjoy Christmas with her with no ties and see how you feel after a few days. She's still feeling good enough to eat her greens so there's no harm in it. Spoil her rotten
BrianPaul1969
New Born Pup
Hello and I'm hoping this message finds you and your little Fudge both doing well.
I've been following your post from the beginning and I can give you a story from one of our five piggies. Sonic was our little surprise, he was supposed to be a girl and I could tell as soon as we brought them home he wasn't. I think it was probably within 4 months we had our three little baby girls.
We fed our piggies all different kinds of fruits, veggies, pellets and hay. Pretty much everything they loved and they would come out in a feeding frenzy and devour everything. Well that's when they were younger but as they got older up around 4 years things started to change. Snickers the female died about a year after giving birth to our three beautiful little baby girls. We just found her there like if she went to run out of her tunnel just flat on the floor. My wife was literally heartbroken because that was her baby.
Fast forward about 2 years and our male Sonic started having some trouble eating. The hay and pellets which he loves stopped and all he would do is eat the soft veggies and fruits. At that time we didn't really know a lot about these little creatures and didn't realize it was his molars that were getting overgrown. By the time we got him to the vet he had already lost quite a bit of weight and his teeth were so overgrown that his mouth wouldn't really close properly.
The next problem we ran into after they did x-rays was the fact that one of the handlers must have dropped him when he was a baby and his skull was misshapen so the teeth on one side weren't growing at the proper angle. They were kind of growing at the other teeth so if these started to overgrow he would have a problem a lot quicker.
When we had his back molars ground and his front teeth clipped we brought him home and we're told exactly the same thing, aggressively syringe feed him with critical care until he starts eating. This is the part that I really didn't understand when they talk about aggressively syringe feeding and you need to really understand this. If your piggy is only eating soft veg it could very well be due to his molars being overgrown. Force feeding the critical care will stimulate his stomach and actually force him to keep eating.
After the first molar grinding we brought him home and I was syringe feeding him but it was more on his terms. This is a big No No because some of them will not eat from the syringe hence force feeding. You literally need to take your guinea pigs little face in one hand and gently pressing it against your stomach then putting the syringe in their mouth with verbal cues ( open open ) and squirting it in slowly so you get at least 5 ml per feeding or else she's not getting enough food. I hate to say it but is what you absolutely need to do, I didn't do this aggressively enough with Sonic and he just continually lost weight until one night he was completely lethargic and he just passed in my arms.
With that said you must force feed the food because after a certain point they won't eat it.
Water is also critical, I never syringe fed Sonic water I just kept squirting food into his mouth. I mentioned this once in a different post, just imagine if you kept eating and eating and eating and didn't drink water? You would really feel sick in your stomach and not want to eat so if your little baby doesn't really want the food start giving 1 ml syringes of water.
I'm not really sure what else to say except to cut out all the fruits, veg and anything like that and just force feed until she starts eating. I've attached a pic from a Sherwood appetite stimulant packet that you might find interesting.
Another thing I heard is after the antibiotics are stopped it could take days before they even feel like eating again so this is the most unpleasant aggressive feeding that you're going to do and if you don't there is no other good option. We actually opted to not take Sonic in for his last tooth grinding because the same as where you are his weight was down so much he would have made it.
I'm just so sorry to hear about all the medical complications but I would never put one of my piggies down. I would take care of them right till the end and they would go in my arms. These little sweethearts are part of our family and that's how we treat them.
Good luck with your little baby, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
God bless
Attachments
HUGS
Please listen to your heart/gut; it has assessed the situation much better than your head can. It is also easier for you to find lasting peace that way once your head and your heart come back together again after the inevitable soul-searching in the run up and in the wake of an end of life situation where you have had to call it shots without events taking it out of your hands and making it a no-brainer - it's the most emotionally taxing scenario we can face as loving owners.
I have gone both ways with different piggies; neither way is easier and there is no one right way. Ss long as your decision is made with your piggy's welfare firstly in mind before your own fears and desires you are doing fine. Above all, it has to feel right for your piggy and you every single time on its own merits.
You can see whether you want to offer mushed up pellets (use warm water) or a mushed mix of recovery food and pellets as a top up. Serve it in a bowl or from a spoon, so you do not fall into the trap of round the clock feeding support when it can get even harder to find the right time for when to withdraw support and it is much more heart-wrenching.
You may also want to max out on painkillers since a picky appetite is pointing towards there still being some appetite dampening pain around. I am currently playing that game with my Cerian; she is showing a similar pattern but will tuck into hay again when I up her painkillers just a little more (she has advanced arthritis). I am going to call it shots for her when they are totally maxed out but currently I am blessing every day she is still coming out of her cave to beg for food and to eat enough to produce healthy looking poos.
You may find the very practical advice in these guides here helpful for the coming days:
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs (see chapter 'terminal illness')
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
Signs of Pain in Guinea Pigs
Gadzy
Junior Guinea Pig
Thankyou so much for the lovely message and support, it’s very much appreciated
… I don’t have much knowledge of it all, but I just don’t think it’s cancer because of the way she is acting and excited for greens etc, it’s such a strange scenario. I just thought if she had cancer she would be pretty much not eating a thing and wouldn’t be up at the bars for food time. Although I did read in a thread a while ago that one of the posters had cancer and wouldn’t have known till it suddenly passed, so it’s all up in the air. I will speak to the vets tomorrow regarding upping her pain relief because I think she is on quite a low dose from what I have read, but her weight is very low so maybe that’s why at the moment. It’s on of those catch 22 situations where I’m thinking what if it isn’t cancer and I didn’t operate and then there’s the one where I think what if it is cancer and they open her up and it’s bad and then your no better off and a big operation bill. One day I wake up and think I’m just going to give her palliative care and make the most of it and then the next day I think maybe I’ll go with the operation just to see. It’s quite a difficult and horrible scenario!
So much thanks for your lovely message and support. I feel that’s the main thing right now just the support and knowing we have pretty much all been through this at some stage. I’ve never had this before because my old pigs either died suddenly out of the blue due to a heart attack when they seemed absolutely fine or we had concrete results and evidence what things were and due to their age of 6 it was much easier decisions to PTS. This is a whole different ball game unfortunately
Thankyou again