Resistant Mites?

[Wiebke]

Thank you , it’s been over 48 hours now and they still seem to scratching a lot . But I will give it a few days to see if it settles down and will give them a bath once the treatment has done it’s thing .

If they do need a 4th treatment I will do that but what jf they need a 5th ? Is there a maximum amount of treatments you are allowed to do?

Hi

The scratching should have stopped by now if it was the end of a normal course of three rounds.

Are you dealing with hay mites or mange mites? In the case of hay mites, a new load of mites may have arrived with your new hay.

Feel the hairs at the bum end for tiny beads (egg cases) stuck on hairs like miniature beads on a string. Please bin your current supply and consider getting a different hay brand. I order my hay from Nature's own. If you batch order it is free delivery and cheaper/better quality than pet shop hay.

Thread 'A Comprehensive Hay Guide for Guinea Pigs (incl. providers in several countries)'

Mar 26, 2019

1 List of available types of hay (with description and pros/cons)
2 Hay comparison chart (with nutritional values explained)
3 Assessing the quality of hay
4 Storage
5 Suppliers (UK - USA - Aus)
6 Further information, hay racks and hay treats


This guide has been written by @G&C in 2019 and updated for UK sources by @Lorcan in 2023.
The forum would like to thank them for all their hard work in researching and producing this very helpful and thorough guide!


Hay is...

• sport_billy
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Diet

• 
• 

 

[Honey&maple]

Hi

The scratching should have stopped by now if it was the end of a normal course of three rounds.

Are you dealing with hay mites or mange mites? In the case of hay mites, a new load of mites may have arrived with your new hay.

Feel the hairs at the bum end for tiny beads (egg cases) stuck on hairs like miniature beads on a string. Please bin your current supply and consider getting a different hay brand. I order my hay from Nature's own. If you batch order it is free delivery and cheaper/better quality than pet shop hay.

Thread 'A Comprehensive Hay Guide for Guinea Pigs (incl. providers in several countries)'

Mar 26, 2019

1 List of available types of hay (with description and pros/cons)
2 Hay comparison chart (with nutritional values explained)
3 Assessing the quality of hay
4 Storage
5 Suppliers (UK - USA - Aus)
6 Further information, hay racks and hay treats


This guide has been written by @G&C in 2019 and updated for UK sources by @Lorcan in 2023.
The forum would like to thank them for all their hard work in researching and producing this very helpful and thorough guide!


Hay is...

• sport_billy
• Replies: 5
• Forum: Diet

• 
• 

The new pig she used to have black bits around her bum end but they have gone now . And her v shape on her back looks so much better and the fur seems to be growing back . I just don’t get why they are scratching more after this last treatment . It’s so stressful , I’ve been dealing with it for like 6 weeks now (that’s how long I’ve had her) . I really thought the xeno450 was working .

I get bales of hay from cambers and I always have for 4 years and never dealt with this before . So it would be a bad coincidence if it is the hay.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Please speak to your vet. This has been going on for a long time now and predates the treatments you have given her - I know that she had been treated by the rescue prior to coming to you (if I remember rightly she had had many months worth of treatment with the rescue), you then continued the treatment recommended to you by the rescue which turned out to be incorrectly dosed . If you’ve now done a round of three treatments of xeno and its still not resolved then your vet here to take a good look at her

The fact she had a V shape means mange mites.
Hay mites leave the egg casings on the hair shaft

They are microscopic, you can’t check the hay to know whether it has mites in it.
If the infestation continues then it’s either new mites coming in with new hay or the treatment isn’t working for some reason

 

[Honey&maple]

Please speak to your vet. This has been going on for a long time now and predates the treatments you have given her - I know that she had been treated by the rescue prior to coming to you (if I remember rightly she had had many months worth of treatment with the rescue), you then continued the treatment recommended to you by the rescue which turned out to be incorrectly dosed . If you’ve now done a round of three treatments of xeno and its still not resolved then your vet here to take a good look at her

The fact she had a V shape means mange mites.
Hay mites leave the egg casings on the hair shaft

They are microscopic, you can’t check the hay to know whether it has mites in it.
If the infestation continues then it’s either new mites coming in with new hay or the treatment isn’t working for some reason

She used to have the hay mites eggs on her back end . So is it possible she could have mange Mites too then?

My original pig had had the same treatment and is still scratching so it’s weird that it’s not working for either of them then.

 

[Honey&maple]

These are the pictures I have of her
First one - the day I got her
Second one- it started to get much worse
Third one- today

So it looks like the treatment is working.

 

[Piggies&buns]

A V shape is a classic sign of the presence of mange mites

 

[Honey&maple]

A V shape is a classic sign of the presence of mange mites

Does mange mites lead to scabbing too normally?

 

[Wiebke]

Does mange mites lead to scabbing too normally?

If it is not treated properly it can lead to scabbing. Please see a vet for the appropriate treatment on the first day the current treatment interval ends so they can step in as soon as possible. Your treatment is obviously not working. Unfortunately, whether you are treating with low grade or high grade ivermectin or selamectin, you always need to wait until is has bee wrked out before further applications can be used; otherwise it can lead to dangerous overdosing.

 

[Honey&maple]

If it is not treated properly it can lead to scabbing. Please see a vet for the appropriate treatment on the first day the current treatment interval ends so they can step in as soon as possible. Your treatment is obviously not working. Unfortunately, whether you are treating with low grade or high grade ivermectin or selamectin, you always need to wait until is has bee wrked out before further applications can be used; otherwise it can lead to dangerous overdosing.

Yeah she did used to have a little scab and it bled but all of that’s cleared up which is why I’m quite confused. The skin looks healthy just a lot of Scratching going on.

But yeah I will have to get her booked in when the treatment is ended .

You did say I could try a 4th dose but I’m unsure how to know if this is worth it and to just head straight to the vets instead ?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yeah she did used to have a little scab and it bled but all of that’s cleared up which is why I’m quite confused. The skin looks healthy just a lot of Scratching going on.

But yeah I will have to get her booked in when the treatment is ended .

You did say I could try a 4th dose but I’m unsure how to know if this is worth it and to just head straight to the vets instead ?

Please just head straight to the vet

 

[naguya]

The fact she had a V shape means mange mites.
Hay mites leave the egg casings on the hair shaft

They are microscopic, you can’t check the hay to know whether it has mites in it.
If the infestation continues then it’s either new mites coming in with new hay or the treatment isn’t working for some reason

Oh, I thought we could see the hay mites, I noticed some very very tiny (similar to very small ants but a lot smaller and different shape, I could not even take a photo because it was so small) in my hay, and both of my pigs were starting to itch daily. I took them to a vet here, he looked and said it was mites from the hay, I asked if the tiny bugs in the hay were mites and he said "yes!" so they are on ivermectin. Well, I confess that I believed it without having researched it first. It is nice to know! Now I'm confused about what the tiny bugs were.

 

[Honey&maple]

Is there anything I can do at all to help with their itching until I can get them into the vets . Because i got to wait another week and I feel so bad for them .

I’m starting to think it was hay mites and mange now so bathing would make it worse .

 

[Honey&maple]

I cent get the pigs into the vets until next monday but the vet said he recommends a lime sulfar dip for them before we go to help the scratching. Has anyone used this before for hay mites/mange mites?

 

[Honey&maple]

My pigs have been advised to use a dip for mites however after 2 dips it’s caused them to have dry skin.

What can I use to help with the dry skin?

 

[Wiebke]

My pigs have been advised to use a dip for mites however after 2 dips it’s caused them to have dry skin.

What can I use to help with the dry skin?

Hi

Can you please specify what you product you are using, which mites (hay or mange) you are treating for and who do you have the product been given by?

 

[Honey&maple]

Hi

Can you please specify what you product you are using, which mites (hay or mange) you are treating for and who do you have the product been given by?

I have been to the vets and he didn’t say which mites it is but I’m thinking myself most likely mange (he said their skin looked good even though maple has a v shape, there was no redness or scabs) . He reccomend a lime sulphur dip every 5 days for 2 weeks (it is an old school method) but he said it is very good at killing everything and has used it a lot for his other Guinea pig patients and been successful.

He showed me which product to get off Amazon and told me the dosage and everything .

I just feel like the scratching could be from the dry skin which it has occurred from the dip so unsure whether this dip has actually worked ( I have another 1 or 2 dips to go) but obviously don’t want their skin to get more dry and irratable in the meantime .

I have a picture of one of their dryness .

If I need to get in touch with the vet I will do . I just don’t want to keep on coming across as annoying because I know there may be reccomendEd safe methods online first that I could try.

 

[Wiebke]

I have been to the vets and he didn’t say which mites it is but I’m thinking myself most likely mange (he said their skin looked good even though maple has a v shape, there was no redness or scabs) . He reccomend a lime sulphur dip every 5 days for 2 weeks (it is an old school method) but he said it is very good at killing everything and has used it a lot for his other Guinea pig patients and been successful.

He showed me which product to get off Amazon and told me the dosage and everything .

I just feel like the scratching could be from the dry skin which it has occurred from the dip so unsure whether this dip has actually worked ( I have another 1 or 2 dips to go) but obviously don’t want their skin to get more dry and irratable in the meantime .

I have a picture of one of their dryness .

If I need to get in touch with the vet I will do . I just don’t want to keep on coming across as annoying because I know there may be reccomendEd safe methods online first that I could try.

OUCH

That is really outdated, rough and old school! And definitely what I would put on delicate skin like a piggy's.

The standard and recommended UK vet treatment for mange mites and all skin parasites is with ivermectin (xeno 450 unless the guinea pigs are under 500g). How much is weight dependent.
Ivermectin and selamectin are internationally the only recognised valid active substances against mange mites.

Thread 'New piggy health problems: URI - Ringworm - Skin Parasites'

Nov 4, 2018

1 Vets and your customer rights
- What makes newly bought guinea pigs so vulnerable?
- Do I need to see a vet?
- Documenting illness and your customer rights
3 URI (Upper respiratory tract infection) and sensitivities
- Typical symptoms in order of development
- What to do immediately
- Sensitivity to hay dust and pollen
4 Ringworm (highly contagious fungal...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Wiebke's Home Care Guides

• 

Thread 'New piggy health problems: URI - Ringworm - Skin Parasites'

Nov 4, 2018

1 Vets and your customer rights
- What makes newly bought guinea pigs so vulnerable?
- Do I need to see a vet?
- Documenting illness and your customer rights
3 URI (Upper respiratory tract infection) and sensitivities
- Typical symptoms in order of development
- What to do immediately
- Sensitivity to hay dust and pollen
4 Ringworm (highly contagious fungal...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Wiebke's Home Care Guides

• 

 

[Piggies&buns]

The issue with your piggies has been going on for so long with so many treatments given to your piggies already none of which have worked. I really do think you need to ‘annoy’ the vet about this / find a different vet.

I’ve actually found several threads about this so I’ve merged them all into this one - please could you keep anything further to this one thread - its easier for us to advise with the background together given this has been going on for so long

 

[Honey&maple]

I have changed vets about 3 times now so you can imagine how stressful this is for me. And this Lucas was reccomend to me from someone on here at Severn edge vets .

I have used xeno 450 but it did not work . The vet didn’t reccomend Injections as he doesn’t usually do them and he said selamectin is similar to ivermectin so that if they are resistant none of them will work.

Do you reccomend I try xeno450 again ?

 

[Wiebke]

The issue with your piggies has been going on for so long with so many treatments given to your piggies already none of which have worked. I really do think you need to ‘annoy’ the vet about this / find a different vet.

I’ve actually found several threads about this so I’ve merged them all into this one - please could you keep anything further to this one thread - its easier for us to advise with the background together given this has been going on for so long

Thank you, @Piggies&buns .

Whatever treatment is going on, it is clearly not working.

 

[Honey&maple]

Thank you, @Piggies&buns .

Whatever treatment is going on, it is clearly not working.

I have actuslly stated what treatment I have used in the past and replied above saying I have already tried xeno450 and they seem to be resistant to it .

So if you have any advice on what people normally do when resistant To ivermetcin it would be much appreciated so I can get in touch with the vet .

 

[Piggies&buns]

All I can find is this two year old thread in which PigglePuggle (who is one of our experts) has mentioned which seems to be an experimental treatment. As two years have passed there may be more information available that your vet can now find - whether good or bad. I personally do not have any experience of such resistance to ivermectin. Yours is the only case I can recall which has gone in for so long

Post in thread 'Flurolaner for Mites - Is this Medication OK?'

May 10, 2022

Exzolt is specifically for poultry mites but is for laying hens so ok to the enter the human food chain so theoretically should be completely safe for mammals. Works in a very similar way to ivermectin but will kill ivermectin resistant mites. It is metabolised much faster than ivermectin so may have limited effect unless given continually as is recommended for poultry.
However, like ivermectin and certain dog breeds, there may be animals which cannot tolerate it and as far as I know info on small mammals is as usual non-existent.
Very experimental... if your vet even knows it exists and...

• PigglePuggle

• 

 

[Honey&maple]

All I can find is this two year old thread in which PigglePuggle (who is one of our experts) has mentioned which seems to be an experimental treatment. As two years have passed there may be more information available that your vet can now find - whether good or bad. I personally do not have any experience of such resistance to ivermectin. Yours is the only case I can recall which has gone in for so long

Post in thread 'Flurolaner for Mites - Is this Medication OK?'

May 10, 2022

Exzolt is specifically for poultry mites but is for laying hens so ok to the enter the human food chain so theoretically should be completely safe for mammals. Works in a very similar way to ivermectin but will kill ivermectin resistant mites. It is metabolised much faster than ivermectin so may have limited effect unless given continually as is recommended for poultry.
However, like ivermectin and certain dog breeds, there may be animals which cannot tolerate it and as far as I know info on small mammals is as usual non-existent.
Very experimental... if your vet even knows it exists and...

• PigglePuggle

• 

Thank you for that . I just don’t know what I’m doing wrong then . I did 3 doses of the xeno 450 but after the third one they wouldn’t stop scratching at all - people on here said it was unusual and probably isn’t working. so I went to a different vet and he reccomendEd this dip thing .

I honestly am trying my best , it’s annoying me as well as it’s probably annoying all of you guys too.

 

[Wiebke]

I have actuslly stated what treatment I have used in the past and replied above saying I have already tried xeno450 and they seem to be resistant to it .

So if you have any advice on what people normally do when resistant To ivermetcin it would be much appreciated so I can get in touch with the vet .

Hi

Thank you. Having the information all together and the problem clearly stated does help us because we can only answer your current question which has been somewhat alarming without the appropriate context.

Just to check: Has your vet tried selamectin (revolution or stronghold, not the plus, just the straight one)? It is similar to ivermectin but not quite the same.

It did the trick for my little Nye who obviously had a somewhat weakened immune system and did spent his first year here having either mange or hay mites in turn. He was a last minute impulse addition (including his mites) to two free-ads piggies but he lived a very happy life to 6 years first with a boarmate who was not interested in girls (and neither were they with him) and in a true love match with the biggest sow in the room. Nye continued to suffer the occasional mange mites outbreak from the reservoir in his skin but by stepping in promptly it never got bad and used to come back under control fairly easily.

Otherwise the only other thing I have heard mentioned is flurolaner.

If the dip is the only alternative left, then I would recommend a soothing Manuka and Neem shampoo from Gorgeous Guineas. It is formulated for a guinea pig skin ph especially for stressed skin with lots of debris like after a mange mites attack. You will have to wait at least 48 hours after any skin treatment to allow it to be fully absorbed.
Manuka & Neem Shampoo: 160ml


The problem with mange mites is that the eggs in the skin cannot be medically reached; you can only kill the emerging mites. Piggies can be born with mites. Normally a fully working immune system keeps them under control. However overuse of especially low dosed 'prevention' pet shop products can eventually lead to resistance issues. We have thankfully not seen many cases like yours in Europe yet on here.

 

[Honey&maple]

Hi

Thank you. Having the information all together and the problem clearly stated does help us because we can only answer your current question which has been somewhat alarming without the appropriate context.

Just to check: Has your vet tried selamectin (revolution or stronghold, not the plus, just the straight one)? It is similar to ivermectin but not quite the same.

It did the trick for my little Nye who obviously had a somewhat weakened immune system and did spent his first year here having either mange or hay mites in turn. He was a last minute impulse addition (including his mites) to two free-ads piggies but he lived a very happy life to 6 years first with a boarmate who was not interested in girls (and neither were they with him) and in a true love match with the biggest sow in the room. Nye continued to suffer the occasional mange mites outbreak from the reservoir in his skin but by stepping in promptly it never got bad and used to come back under control fairly easily.

Otherwise the only other thing I have heard mentioned is flurolaner.

If the dip is the only alternative left, then I would recommend a soothing Manuka and Neem shampoo from Gorgeous Guineas. It is formulated for a guinea pig skin ph especially for stressed skin with lots of debris like after a mange mites attack. You will have to wait at least 48 hours after any skin treatment to allow it to be fully absorbed.
Manuka & Neem Shampoo: 160ml


The problem with mange mites is that the eggs in the skin cannot be medically reached; you can only kill the emerging mites. Piggies can be born with mites. Normally a fully working immune system keeps them under control. However overuse of especially low dosed 'prevention' pet shop products can eventually lead to resistance issues. We have thankfully not seen many cases like yours in Europe yet on here.

thank you .

I mentioned the selamectin to the vet when I went and he said that if the xeno450 didn’t work then it was unlikely that selamectin would as it’s too similar. But lots of people are saying to try it so maybe i can ask to just have it .

I spoke to the vet over the phone about the “dry skin” and he said it is probably the residue from the dip and I need to make sure I’m rinsing it off more thoroughly . He said if the scratching doesn’t settle down after the last dip and rinsing off very well . I will have to get in touch next week and we can explore some other treatments

Luckily they aren’t getting any worse- no scabs or anything , they are very happy still so please don’t think they are sufering .

I think it is also hard for me because where I got maple from the rescue lady has not been clear and I feel like I have been lied to with what treatments she has already had . So I’m assuming she has been treated with low dose ivermectin which is why I’m having such a hard time with this .

 

[Wiebke]

thank you .

I mentioned the selamectin to the vet when I went and he said that if the xeno450 didn’t work then it was unlikely that selamectin would as it’s too similar. But lots of people are saying to try it so maybe i can ask to just have it .

I spoke to the vet over the phone about the “dry skin” and he said it is probably the residue from the dip and I need to make sure I’m rinsing it off more thoroughly . He said if the scratching doesn’t settle down after the last dip and rinsing off very well . I will have to get in touch next week and we can explore some other treatments

Luckily they aren’t getting any worse- no scabs or anything , they are very happy still so please don’t think they are sufering .

I think it is also hard for me because where I got maple from the rescue lady has not been clear and I feel like I have been lied to with what treatments she has already had . So I’m assuming she has been treated with low dose ivermectin which is why I’m having such a hard time with this .

Selamectin and ivermectin are relatively closely related. However, reliable treatment options are very limited when it comes to mange mites and we are lucky to have the few we have got.

By keeping all posts on an ongoing case together, it can also help other people down the line searching on our forum to see a whole case with all options explored and their outcomes and not just the usual standard social media quick shots. And since we all jump between lots of threads all the time on top of our own piggies, job and private lives for free in whatever free time we have, we cannot necessarily remember whether cases could be connected months down the line. The 1 thread = 1 ongoing case rule does really help us as well. You can always bookmark your ongoing support thread so you can pick it up again. Our forum is independent from social media so we do not rely on the number of new threads and can let them run on for as long as needed.

Unfortunately, anybody can call themselves a rescue or a breeder (or even any mix between the two) without licensing and control, and results can sadly be accordingly. It sounds like the rescue you used may have not been up to scratch since any good standard rescue is usually very open about any medical problems and the care their adoptees have received. Ivermectin and selamectin are sadly not cheap.

But I am glad that the dip is at least holding the mites in check.

 

[Honey&maple]

Selamectin and ivermectin are relatively closely related. However, reliable treatment options are very limited when it comes to mange mites and we are lucky to have the few we have got.

By keeping all posts on an ongoing case together, it can also help other people down the line searching on our forum to see a whole case with all options explored and their outcomes and not just the usual standard social media quick shots. And since we all jump between lots of threads all the time on top of our own piggies, job and private lives for free in whatever free time we have, we cannot necessarily remember whether cases could be connected months down the line. The 1 thread = 1 ongoing case rule does really help us as well. You can always bookmark your ongoing support thread so you can pick it up again. Our forum is independent from social media so we do not rely on the number of new threads and can let them run on for as long as needed.

Unfortunately, anybody can call themselves a rescue or a breeder (or even any mix between the two) without licensing and control, and results can sadly be accordingly. It sounds like the rescue you used may have not been up to scratch since any good standard rescue is usually very open about any medical problems and the care their adoptees have received. Ivermectin and selamectin are sadly not cheap.

But I am glad that the dip is at least holding the mites in check.

Thank you. Would you recommend the selamectin if the dip doesn’t work? or do you think it’s too similar to ivermectin. There’s mixed opinions everywhere so unsure whether to mention it again to the vet.

Yeah the rescue was not good at all. She said she would help with the vet bills and take her to the vet for me . But she disappeared and didn’t reply for 2 months and didn’t mention it again. So I’ve been having to deal with it myself which is super annoying .

I will make sure I still go 1 thread from now on sorry about that .

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you. Would you recommend the selamectin if the dip doesn’t work? or do you think it’s too similar to ivermectin. There’s mixed opinions everywhere so unsure whether to mention it again to the vet.

Yeah the rescue was not good at all. She said she would help with the vet bills and take her to the vet for me . But she disappeared and didn’t reply for 2 months and didn’t mention it again. So I’ve been having to deal with it myself which is super annoying .

I will make sure I still go 1 thread from now on sorry about that .

No need to apologise. You can't know the reasoning behind the more unusual way we handle especially this and the pregnancy section differently from other places since personalised owner support is important to us - with the added advantage that people searching for more information and outcomes can find them on here much better than in other places. I have however changed your thread title a little so it reflects your real problem and can be found easier in searches.
And sorry for me throwing my hands in the air when I read about your dip. Vet care has come along massively but we do still get things that not quite right or have to coach members, especially in other countries, through dealing with vets not experienced with guinea pigs. The dip without the whole context sounded like that.

I am not a medications specialist, just somebody who goes mainly by personal or forum precedents. But if the dip isn't doing more than holding the mites at bay (which is at least something) then you can bring up the other two medications mentioned with your vet for them to do their own research. All your vet and you can do is to go by trial and error once the standard medication isn't working.

We are here for moral support and we would like to keep hearing how you get on.

 

[Honey&maple]

That’s okay.
Don’t worry I was very cautious with the dip myself because I could find no information about it on here but because the vet seemed quite good previously with my honeys abscess I felt like I had to trust him and give it a go.

Yeah it has been going on for so long with trial and error and I’ve had to keep their hutch quite plain and I can’t wait until they are gone completely so I can start putting things in there for them. But honestly I keep a close eye on them 24/7.

But yeah I will let you how it goes over the next week.
Thank you again

 

[Honey&maple]

Update: scratching has seemed to settle down with maple and the fur on her back has started to grow back once again. (Hopefully it stays like this)

However honey is still irritated but she seems to still have that white residue /dry skin which is probably the reason she’s itchy (no scabs or bald patches)

I was reccomend the manuka and neem shampoo . However because I don’t know if the “mange” mites have 100% gone , will this be a risk as bathing can cause mites to bury deeper in the skin?