Resistant Mites?

[Honey&truffle]

I picked up a Guinea pig from a rescue to bond with my lonely pig. However , when I got home I noticed she had hair loss on her back so I messaged the rescue . They said she has had severe mites but has got the all clear 2 weeks ago at the vets and her fur is growing back. She is still scratching and I’m unsure if it’s healing or if she’s still got them and passing them onto my pig .

How do I know if the fur is just growing or if she’s still got them? I’m quite worried in what to do .

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yes it does indeed look like she had mange mites.

I’d she has had a full course (ie three treatments over six weeks) of a good treatment such as xeno then the chances are that it is regrowth and she is clear.
The best thing would be to find out what treatment she has had and see your own vet if you are still concerned

 

[Wiebke]

I picked up a Guinea pig from a rescue to bond with my lonely pig. However , when I got home I noticed she had hair loss on her back so I messaged the rescue . They said she has had severe mites but has got the all clear 2 weeks ago at the vets and her fur is growing back. She is still scratching and I’m unsure if it’s healing or if she’s still got them and passing them onto my pig .

How do I know if the fur is just growing or if she’s still got them? I’m quite worried in what to do .

Hi

It doesn't look like bare skin to me so the hairs seem to be growing back when you compare it to a picture of the classic V at the start of a mange mites outbreak.
New piggy problems: URI - ringworm - skin parasites

Whether the stress of moving home is triggering the mites egg reservoir in the skin again (in healthy piggies it is kept under control by a fully working immune system) or not is something you have to keep an eye on nd see how it develops over the coming days.

PS: I have adopted several piggies for different rescues that were rescued with rather severe mange mites but they never had another outbreak again. For one I had to wait over 5 months with my reservation cancelled twice becase Pili Pala '(Welsh for Butterfly' kept biting open her manage spot again and again as soon as it had healed over; eventually the vet decidedit was nervous behaviour. She stopped worrying the patch within three weeks of her arrival her although the hair never grew back. Pili lived t ca. 6 years and never had mites again.

 

[Honey&truffle]

Hi

It doesn't look like bare skin to me so the hairs seem to be growing back when you compare it to a picture of the classic V at the start of a mange mites outbreak.
New piggy problems: URI - ringworm - skin parasites

Whether the stress of moving home is triggering the mites egg reservoir in the skin again (in healthy piggies it is kept under control by a fully working immune system) or not is something you have to keep an eye on nd see how it develops over the coming days.

PS: I have adopted several piggies for different rescues that were rescued with rather severe mange mites but they never had another outbreak again. For one I had to wait over 5 months with my reservation cancelled twice becase Pili Pala '(Welsh for Butterfly' kept biting open her manage spot again and again as soon as it had healed over; eventually the vet decidedit was nervous behaviour. She stopped worrying the patch within three weeks of her arrival her although the hair never grew back. Pili lived t ca. 6 years and never had mites again.

Apparently she has been on treatment every 2 weeks for 3 months with ivermectin which seems a lot to me . But the rescue said they can give me some extra treatment if I need I’m just worried about resistance she might have to the medication.

 

[Wiebke]

Apparently she has been on treatment every 2 weeks for 3 months with ivermectin which seems a lot to me . But the rescue said they can give me some extra treatment if I need I’m just worried about resistance she might have to the medication.

Hi

Really bad and advanced mange mites can take a long time to get over. They can cause bad seizures and can kill. Treatment can indeed take as long as that when dealing with a bad case.

It is your decision whether you want to sit and wait to see whether the itchiness subsides within few days as the skin gets used to a new home or whether it is getting worse and you are indeed facing another outbreak. Is the scratching relatively mild and reflexive or it is increasingly more vigorous and accompanied with some biting of the itchy spot and the hair bitten back to the skin again (self barbering)?

The problem with mange mites is that no treatment can reach the eggs in the skin. They are kept in check by a fully working immune system. A stressful situation can lower the immune system again temporarily if it is not yet quite as resilient.

There is a difference between long term preventative treatment with a lower dosage, which cannot necessarily stop a full-on acute outbreak and which should only be considered by a vet for a mange mite guinea pig with a permanently weakened immune system, and addressing a real outbreak in a piggy with a mange mite egg deposit (the outbreak in this case always happen in the same spot in my own experience). The latter is necessary; the former isn't and it is this constant exposure to a too low dosage which is causing the resistance issue.

Essentially, it comes down to whether you have the nerve to try and sit out the next few days or not in order to see whether the immune system of your new piggy can cope or not. Been there myself. I did hold my nerve with Pili Pala and her (mild) scratching and biting of the still open sore in the first days (it took three weeks for it to heal full closed for good).

 

[Honey&truffle]

Hi

Really bad and advanced mange mites can take a long time to get over. They can cause bad seizures and can kill. Treatment can indeed take as long as that when dealing with a bad case.

It is your decision whether you want to sit and wait to see whether the itchiness subsides within few days as the skin gets used to a new home or whether it is getting worse and you are indeed facing another outbreak. Is the scratching relatively mild and reflexive or it is increasingly more vigorous and accompanied with some biting of the itchy spot and the hair bitten back to the skin again (self barbering)?

The problem with mange mites is that no treatment can reach the eggs in the skin. They are kept in check by a fully working immune system. A stressful situation can lower the immune system again temporarily if it is not yet quite as resilient.

There is a difference between long term preventative treatment with a lower dosage, which cannot necessarily stop a full-on acute outbreak and which should only be considered by a vet for a mange mite guinea pig with a permanently weakened immune system, and addressing a real outbreak in a piggy with a mange mite egg deposit (the outbreak in this case always happen in the same spot in my own experience). The latter is necessary; the former isn't and it is this constant exposure to a too low dosage which is causing the resistance issue.

Essentially, it comes down to whether you have the nerve to try and sit out the next few days or not in order to see whether the immune system of your new piggy can cope or not. Been there myself. I did hold my nerve with Pili Pala and her (mild) scratching and biting of the still open sore in the first days (it took three weeks for it to heal full closed for good).

Her scratxhing isn’t too bad but my sister in law has come round amd seen black bits around her bum and says looks like static lice . But also probably has mange mites . I'm so disappointed why the rescue have let me adopt her when she’s like this . I think I'm going to try and treat her with the stuff the rescue are going to give me .

 

[Wiebke]

Hi

Hay mites (the are not lice and the 'static' bit you see are actually the egg cases that are fixed to the hairs of the bum and the underlayer; there is only one variety of species specific lice) have got their current vernacular name because they come in the hay.

It is also highly likely that the itching is from just the hay mites and not any resurgent mange mites so you are dealing with only one problem. Please accept that we can only ever comment on what you are telling us.

But the medical treatment for any skin parasites is the same so it won't matter in practical terms. By the treatment interval you have mentioned it is most likely vet grade xeno and what we also recommend on here.

Personally, I would strongly recommend that you radically cut off any hair that has eggs fixed to them and give your new arrival a really short haircut; go over the whole body and look beneath the top layer of hair. You will also have to check their companion. The mites could be from your or the rescue's hay; that is impossible to say for me.

It may not be sightly but that is going to get a whole lot of mites removed before they can emerge to multiply quickly and that you then need to treat chemically. This drastic but effective measure minimises the itching very quickly and helps to stop the hay mites in their tracks before they can really take off. The hair will grow back to its genetically determined length within a month. Unlike mange mites eggs in the skin, you can get at the hay mites eggs on the hairs, which makes it a lot easier to get a grip on them. You still need the ivermectin to kill any emerged hay mites that are around now or emerge from eggs you have missed but you can ensure that this is not going to be another major battle royale

Piggies from a really bad background can take a while to get their immune system up to full swing and their bodies totally recovered from their neglect/ordeal but once they do they can live just as long as normal piggies - I have had a fair number of them living to 6-8 years due to your good daily care which is the important bit; not rarely longer than piggies from a 'normal' background because deep down these piggies are true survivors. For me, it has always been more than worth any initial little wobbles.

More information on the various guinea pig specific parasites and the best way to deal with them: New piggy problems: URI - ringworm - skin parasites

 

[Honey&truffle]

Hi

Hay mites (the are not lice and the 'static' bit you see are actually the egg cases that are fixed to the hairs of the bum and the underlayer; there is only one variety of species specific lice) have got their current vernacular name because they come in the hay.

It is also highly likely that the itching is from just the hay mites and not any resurgent mange mites so you are dealing with only one problem. Please accept that we can only ever comment on what you are telling us.

But the medical treatment for any skin parasites is the same so it won't matter in practical terms. By the treatment interval you have mentioned it is most likely vet grade xeno and what we also recommend on here.

Personally, I would strongly recommend that you radically cut off any hair that has eggs fixed to them and give your new arrival a really short haircut; go over the whole body and look beneath the top layer of hair. You will also have to check their companion. The mites could be from your or the rescue's hay; that is impossible to say for me.

It may not be sightly but that is going to get a whole lot of mites removed before they can emerge to multiply quickly and that you then need to treat chemically. This drastic but effective measure minimises the itching very quickly and helps to stop the hay mites in their tracks before they can really take off. The hair will grow back to its genetically determined length within a month. Unlike mange mites eggs in the skin, you can get at the hay mites eggs on the hairs, which makes it a lot easier to get a grip on them. You still need the ivermectin to kill any emerged hay mites that are around now or emerge from eggs you have missed but you can ensure that this is not going to be another major battle royale

Piggies from a really bad background can take a while to get their immune system up to full swing and their bodies totally recovered from their neglect/ordeal but once they do they can live just as long as normal piggies - I have had a fair number of them living to 6-8 years due to your good daily care which is the important bit; not rarely longer than piggies from a 'normal' background because deep down these piggies are true survivors. For me, it has always been more than worth any initial little wobbles.

More information on the various guinea pig specific parasites and the best way to deal with them: New piggy problems: URI - ringworm - skin parasites

Thank you for your help! It’s definelty hay mites as I can now see them. I have started them both on treatment that the rescue gave me so fingers crossed it works . Do you reccomend a lice bath?

She’s making herself bleed with all the scratxhing I feel so bad .

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for your help! It’s definelty hay mites as I can now see them. I have started them both on treatment that the rescue gave me so fingers crossed it works . Do you reccomend a lice bath?

She’s making herself bleed with all the scratxhing I feel so bad .

Hi

Please give her a radical short haircut and then she needs vet strength ivermectin as soon as you can get it if she is scratching herself bloody again. She will need at least three rounds of xeno 450 (weight adjusted). The xeno will also work against any potential mange mites and treat for them at the same time, so you do not have any extra cost or effort for that.

A lice bath is our experience not very effective. You will also have to wait 2 days after each medical skin treatment to allow it to be fully absorbed. If can see hay mite eggs on top, then you are guaranteed lots more in the deeper hair layers where they are not very noticeable.

 

[Honey&truffle]

I bathed both of my piggies with the lice and easy shampoo and it’s washed a lot of the black mites out so hopefully it’ll make her feel a lot less itchy. So glad I did it .

 

[Wiebke]

I bathed both of my piggies with the lice and easy shampoo and it’s washed a lot of the black mites out so hopefully it’ll make her feel a lot less itchy. So glad I did it .

Please be aware that the shampoo alone is generally not effective with the strains that come with imported, industrially harved pet hay.

All the best.

 

[Honey&truffle]

Please be aware that the shampoo alone is generally not effective with the strains that come with imported, industrially harved pet hay.

All the best.

She is on treatment also , I know the shampoo won’t treat it alone . Thank you for the help.

 

[Wiebke]

She is on treatment also , I know the shampoo won’t treat it alone . Thank you for the help.

Good to hear that.

 

[Honey&truffle]

Good to hear that.

I use pet safe disinfectsnt but I was just wondering id there was anything you reccomend which would help with the cleaning of the hutch and to kill the mites ?

 

[Wiebke]

I use pet safe disinfectsnt but I was just wondering id there was anything you reccomend which would help with the cleaning of the hutch and to kill the mites ?

Hi

There is no recommended pesticide for guinea pigs that kills mites. Please be aware that pesticides and flea killers suitable for dogs contain an ingredient that is lethal for guinea pigs.

The general cage disinfectant we recommend for deep cleaning cages (which is proven to kill ringworm spores) is F10. If you can, get hold of the concentrate. It will last you for ages and is ultimately a lot cheaper.

 

[Honey&truffle]

Hi

There is no recommended pesticide for guinea pigs that kills mites. Please be aware that pesticides and flea killers suitable for dogs contain an ingredient that is lethal for guinea pigs.

The general cage disinfectant we recommend for deep cleaning cages (which is proven to kill ringworm spores) is F10. If you can, get hold of the concentrate. It will last you for ages and is ultimately a lot cheaper.

How soon after ivermeticin 150 can my pig have xeno 450? I’ve been waiting for it to get ordered and delivered . I’m also worried if she’s had the low dose in the past if she’s resistant to that will she also be resistant to the high dose as it’s the same ingredient?

 

[Honey&truffle]

Hey.
My Guinea pigs have been on ivermeticin 150 and have had 2 doses of it (1pippete each) I’m transferring them onto xeno 450 as it’s now arrived and I’m hoping because it’s strong it will work.

However, when can I give xeno450 when they were both given 1 pipette of 150 strength on Monday as I don’t want to overdose .
Thank you ❤

 

[Piggies&buns]

You will still need to leave two weeks between doses as normal.

(I assume the vet has told you how much of the xeno 450 to give?. If they are having one pipette of the xeno 50, then they may need only part of a pipette of the xeno 450. (I can’t remember the dosages and weight cuts off off the top of my head))

 

[Honey&truffle]

You will still need to leave two weeks between doses as normal.

(I assume the vet has told you how much of the xeno 450 to give?. If they are having one pipette of the xeno 50, then they may need only part of a pipette of the xeno 450. (I can’t remember the dosages and weight cuts off off the top of my head))

Even if they only had 150 strength and not even the full dose? . She had 150 on one week and another 150 the week after . But she could have had 300 in 2 weeks but the rescue told me to do it weekly instead with a lower dose . So unsure when it’ll be out of her system so I can start the higher dose every 2 weeks instead .

I hope this makes sense .

 

[Piggies&buns]

Even if they only had 150 strength and not even the full dose? . She had 150 on one week and another 150 the week after . But she could have had 300 in 2 weeks but the rescue told me to do it weekly instead with a lower dose . So unsure when it’ll be out of her system so I can start the higher dose every 2 weeks instead .

I hope this makes sense .

Why weren’t they having a full dose?
Dosages of xeno are weight adjusted so they get a full dose matched to their weight, every two weeks. It can mean you use multiple pipettes of the lower dosed version (xeno 50) per treatment.

Xeno 50 is for piggies under 800g.
Xeno 450 is for piggies over 1200g.
(I appreciate you couldn’t get hold of the xeno 450 until now).
Ive not heard of xeno having a 150 strength

If your piggies are 1200g or over and you used the xeno 50, you would need to use multiple pipettes per treatment to get the dosage for their weight right.
If they are under 1200g and you use the xeno 450 then you use part of a pipette (a certain number of drops), so is adjusted for their weight.

I’ve not heard of giving small doses ie under dosing, for their weight and then doing it weekly. (I think it can be done for weakened immune systems though). To me that sounds like low dosed preventative kind of treatment which can lead to resistance.
You say a rescue was advising you to do this, it wasn’t your vet?

If you’ve been using dosages that don’t correspond to their weights and under a normal timeline, then I’m not sure we can advise on when it would be safe to give another dose, perhaps it could be sooner, but it’s not for us to say.
You should discuss the next doses and the dosage itself with your vet.

 

[Honey&truffle]

Why weren’t they having a full dose?
Dosages of xeno are weight adjusted so they get a full dose matched to their weight, every two weeks. It can mean you use multiple pipettes of the lower dosed version (xeno 50) per treatment.

Xeno 50 is for piggies under 800g.
Xeno 450 is for piggies over 1200g.
(I appreciate you couldn’t get hold of the xeno 450 until now).
Ive not heard of xeno having a 150 strength

If your piggies are 1200g or over and you used the xeno 50, you would need to use multiple pipettes per treatment to get the dosage for their weight right.
If they are under 1200g and you use the xeno 450 then you use part of a pipette (a certain number of drops), so is adjusted for their weight.

I’ve not heard of giving small doses ie under dosing, for their weight and then doing it weekly. (I think it can be done for weakened immune systems though). To me that sounds like low dosed preventative kind of treatment which can lead to resistance.
You say a rescue was advising you to do this, it wasn’t your vet?

If you’ve been using dosages that don’t correspond to their weights and under a normal timeline, then I’m not sure we can advise on when it would be safe to give another dose, perhaps it could be sooner, but it’s not for us to say.
You should discuss the next doses and the dosage itself with your vet.

This is the one that the rescue gave me because they said she was cleared from mites at the vets and she was giving this 3 months every 2 weeks which is weird to me. I think she is resistant because of the low dosing that she’s had. And the fact that she is still itching and clesrly got mites. So I’m hoping the xeno 450 is going to work.

Do you think the 450 could work even tho she could be resistant to ivermeticin? Because it’s the same ingredient isn’t it.

 

[Piggies&buns]

This is the one that the rescue gave me because they said she was cleared from mites at the vets and she was giving this 3 months every 2 weeks which is weird to me. I think she is resistant because of the low dosing that she’s had. And the fact that she is still itching and clesrly got mites. So I’m hoping the xeno 450 is going to work.

Do you think the 450 could work even tho she could be resistant to ivermeticin? Because it’s the same ingredient isn’t it.

How much do your piggies weigh?

I’ve never heard of this product. I can see it is stronger per pipette than the xeno 50 is, but it also says to reapply every four weeks!

I think your safest bet here is to talk to your vet to get their advice. Show them what you have been giving them so they can work out what has happened and what needs to happen going forward.

 

[Honey&truffle]

How much do your piggies weigh?

I’ve never heard of this product. I can see it is stronger per pipette than the xeno 50 is, but it also says to reapply every four weeks!

I think your safest bet here is to talk to your vet to get their advice. Show them what you have been giving them so they can work out what has happened and what needs to happen going forward.

I haven’t weighed one of them as I have only just received her and the rescue told me what to give her . But the other one is 1.1kg but I am definelty going to weigh them before trying something different .

It’s just not working so I do need to get in touch with the rescue because they said they’d sort her out with vet fees etc because they sold me a pig with mites .

 

[Piggies&buns]

I haven’t weighed one of them as I have only just received her and the rescue told me what to give her . But the other one is 1.1kg but I am definelty going to weigh them before trying something different .

It’s just not working so I do need to get in touch with the rescue because they said they’d sort her out with vet fees etc because they sold me a pig with mites .

I’d pop her on the scales right now - it’s important you know her weight anyway - so you can see whether her dosage was even right.

On the face of it, your 1.1kg piggy has been underdosed but as the packaging says to apply one treatment every four weeks and they’ve had two treatments in the last two weeks, it’s safest for the vet to advise whether what they have had is right, safe and where to go now

Please do just call the vet and get an appointment and don’t try to work anything out yourself. They will weigh her and will tell you what to do.

 

[Honey&truffle]

My pigs have had their 3rd dose of Xeno450 on Friday . They seemed to have been getting better with the scratching but now since the last treatment they are scratching more . I know they can scratch more when the mites are dying but I’m unsure how to tell if they will need more treatments ?

Do I buy more just incase or wait to see if it settles down? Is 3 treatments normally enough?

 

[weepweeps]

3 is usually enough. Give it a few days and see if it settles down.

 

[Wiebke]

My pigs have had their 3rd dose of Xeno450 on Friday . They seemed to have been getting better with the scratching but now since the last treatment they are scratching more . I know they can scratch more when the mites are dying but I’m unsure how to tell if they will need more treatments ?

Do I buy more just incase or wait to see if it settles down? Is 3 treatments normally enough?

Hi

Please wait until 48 hours after treatment when the scratching should die down. It means that there are obviously still mites around. The scratching should die down for good from tomorrow onwards.

If it starts picking up again after a week or so, then they will need a 4th round. 3 rounds are usually enough but you always have to decide on the individual case.

You can give them a bath to help remove the dead skin sometime in the next week if you wish to once the mites have gone for good. You do not need any expensive special shampoo for that; even plain water will do. That should help with any irritation from the skin itself.

Here are our safe bathing tips with pictures:

Thread 'Bathing (including cleaning grease glands)'

Mar 7, 2019

1 A Safe Full Bath - Step by Step
- When and how often should you bathe your guinea pigs?
- What items do you require for bathing your guinea pig?
- Recommended shampoos
- Getting started
- Bathing your guinea pig
- Drying your guinea pigs
2 Bum Baths (Partial Baths and Washes)
- What is a 'bum bath' and when should it be used?
- Caked on poos
- Bum hair care tips
- Boar care tips
- Care...

• Claire W
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Daily Care and Travel

• 

 

[naguya]

Did you check if in the hay there are mites?

I have a mite relapse on my guinea pigs and I just discovered it is the hay I changed the supplier immediately and they are starting new treatment.

 

[Honey&truffle]

Did you check if in the hay there are mites?

I have a mite relapse on my guinea pigs and I just discovered it is the hay I changed the supplier immediately and they are starting new treatment.

Well I’ve recently rescued a pig because my original pig lost her friend . The rescue said she recently had severe hay mites and the fur is just growing back but as soon as I brought her in she’s still been scratching so I'm assuming the rescue didnt completely get rid of them. I don't think it is my hay as my original pig has been using the same hay before this new one and she’s been completely fine .but she’s now caught them off the new pig.

But i could still check. Whats a good wsy of checking ? I thought they were microscopic so didn't know i could check the hay?

 

[Honey&truffle]

Hi

Please wait until 48 hours after treatment when the scratching should die down. It means that there are obviously still mites around. The scratching should die down for good from tomorrow onwards.

If it starts picking up again after a week or so, then they will need a 4th round. 3 rounds are usually enough but you always have to decide on the individual case.

You can give them a bath to help remove the dead skin sometime in the next week if you wish to once the mites have gone for good. You do not need any expensive special shampoo for that; even plain water will do. That should help with any irritation from the skin itself.

Here are our safe bathing tips with pictures:

Thread 'Bathing (including cleaning grease glands)'

Mar 7, 2019

1 A Safe Full Bath - Step by Step
- When and how often should you bathe your guinea pigs?
- What items do you require for bathing your guinea pig?
- Recommended shampoos
- Getting started
- Bathing your guinea pig
- Drying your guinea pigs
2 Bum Baths (Partial Baths and Washes)
- What is a 'bum bath' and when should it be used?
- Caked on poos
- Bum hair care tips
- Boar care tips
- Care...

• Claire W
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Daily Care and Travel

• 

Thank you , it’s been over 48 hours now and they still seem to scratching a lot . But I will give it a few days to see if it settles down and will give them a bath once the treatment has done it’s thing .

If they do need a 4th treatment I will do that but what jf they need a 5th ? Is there a maximum amount of treatments you are allowed to do?