Specialist Reoccurrence

[Clare King]

Hello there,

just wondered if I could get people‘s thoughts, opinions, past experiences about something that is happening with my guinea pig Bella..almost a year ago Bella became unwell whilst we were away on holiday and I wrote this post about her;

Hello all, I’m not expecting much advice but just wanted to write down my thoughts and know this will be an understanding place for me to write.
We collected our pigs from their holiday boarding establishment on Friday just gone and one of them is seemingly extremely poorly. I just want to clarify that at no point am I putting any blame on the boarding establishment, they did all that they could for her. We’d been away for 2 weeks and on the first Monday, she was wet underneath so they took her to their vet who diagnosed a uti and she was prescribed 0.5ml of baytril once a day and 0.22ml of feline metacam (also once a day). All seemed to be ok and they text me and said she was doing well and was no longer wet underneath.
When we arrived to collect on Friday, the lady said she was worried about Bella as she’d been very quiet the last few days and hadn’t been out and about the hutch much and they weren’t sure how much she’d been eating. She said that her eyes had seemed half closed esp in the mornings and she’d been giving her some syringe food too. She was also still on the baytril and metacam.
Bella did look very sad and sorry for herself when we saw and her coat was not shiny or smooth. All our other 7 pigs were absolutely fine and looked just as they did when we left them so again the boarding establishment have been great in caring for them. I must also clarify that Bella is a rescue pig and very very timid so her hiding away wouldn’t be a great surprise and I had warned the boarding establishment that she was very shy and quiet.
I took Bella to our vets when we got home and after an examination and X-ray then we found out she had a large amount of gas in her stomach and our vet said her stomach was completely empty and didn’t think she’d eaten for 24hrs ☹.
We came away with metaclopramide, Zantac, dog metacam and more baytril and syringe food. We’ve been administering all these since Friday and feeding every 2-3hrs approx 10 mls at each feed but we’re just not seeing much (if any) improvement. I went back to the vets yesterday to see if there was any improvement and there were some small gut sounds and she is doing some small and very irregular shaped poos.
As there currently aren’t any uti symptoms then we made the decision to stop the baytril in case that was affecting her appetite with the option to restart it or a different antibiotic if needed. Her teeth were also checked and there were no sensitive areas on her jaw and her teeth also looked ok. There was also evidence that she had been eating a small amount of hay.
So that leads us to today, we’re still on the metacam, metaclopramide and Zantac and syringe feeding with emeraid. Bella has shown very little interest in eating, she ate a tiny amount of romaine lettuce but otherwise isn’t wanting dry food or any hay. I’ve been and got some readigrass today and she had a small nibble this afternoon but no real interest. She has lost about 250g since we took her in for holiday boarding but has remained reasonably stable at around 1100g these last few days. We are due to return to the vets tomorrow afternoon and i just wondered if anyone else had had any ideas or experience of anything similar.
Bella is approx 4 1/2 and before this has always been fine and in the 18 months she has been with us has not had any issues. The weight loss is particularly noticeable across her back and haunches. She is sitting very still in the cage (she lives with her sister and a neutered boar) and not wanting to move on her own. She is interested in food and raises her head when she hears it being chopped but when I put it in the cage she sniffs at it but then turns away, it’s like she hasn’t the energy to bite. She is also very wobbly on her legs and bunny hops instead of walking normally, I’m not sure if this due to the muscle loss or something else. (I meant to say, no stones were found on the X-ray).
I apologise for such a long thread but I’m just at that horrible stage where I don’t want to give up on her if there might be hope but again I absolutely don’t want to keep her going if I’m being cruel as currently this doesn’t seem to be much of a life for a previously energetic pig. I will be absolutely guided by my vet too and as I said I’m not sure what I’m wanting from posting here but I think I just wanted to get all my thoughts written down. I’ve not had a pig with severe bloat before so I’m unsure of the recovery ‘timeline’ and if 4 days of meds to still not want to eat is normal or if there’s something else going on there like kidney failure or a stroke. Thank you for letting me write everything down and you’re incredible if you’ve read all this

well...a year later and we’re in exactly the same situation again. Bella quietened down approx 2 weeks ago and stopped eating so much and started losing weight again, I took her to the vets (Kristina that saw her last year has now left but we have new a exotic vet who seems very knowledgeable) and he examined her and said she had large cystic ovaries and these would be causing pain so she was booked in for an urgent spay the next day. Operation thankfully went very smoothly and she came home the same day with metacam and was great for 6 days ( she had post op check and was signed off) and then last Thursday stopped eating and developed a very upset stomach. Syringe fed her on the Thursday and she was taken back to the vets last Friday for fluids, pain relief and a full examination as she had then stopped eating completely. Things are tricky with the current coronavirus so clients aren’t allowed in to the surgery, we just had our pets over at the door and then have phone conversations regarding diagnosis. Bella was diagnosed with a raised temperature and GI stasis last Friday so was started on a course of Septrin and had vetergesic too as well as gut stimulants. I collected her on Friday evening and she was very quiet. She was more awake on Saturday but was obviously in a great deal of pain still with her stomach so I took her back to the vets for more fluids and she was also prescribed tramad too. Her temperature had decreased too which they were pleased with. So we’ve been on Metacam, Tramadol, Metaclopramide, Zantac and Septrin since last Friday and although Bella is thankfully stable she is not at all interested in food (exactly like last year- looks interested but then turns away) so we are syringe feeding her with Emeraid numerous times a day, we do have poo’s coming out the other end but they are understandably small. I’ve just spoken to our vet and he is disappointed to hear that there is no real improvement as yet and I will probably take her in tomorrow for further examination.
Last year we were in this situation for about 3 weeks before Bella suddenly got better and we have had no further health issues with her over the last year. Kristina did a blood test last year and it showed raised white blood cells but no other issues to note and Cristian (vet) has mentioned today about doing another blood test but he’s unsure if it will show anything up. Bella has had xrays, ultrasound and her heart and lungs checked and there is no issue with anything else that can be seen / heard so it seems to be solely in her digestive tract.
Anyway...now to my question to you all...I‘m wondering if Bella could have a worm / parasite burden and I’m debating asking ( but desperately hoping not to offend) Cristian if I could try a course of Panacur just in case it could help. I’ve searched on this site for worming issues and I appreciate that they are a rare occurrence in guinea pigs but I had a horse 15 years ago that came to me with a poor worming history and it transpired that he had a worm burden and in particular of red worm. His previous owners had never had his symptoms of investigated and just put it down to him being odd every spring. So when I had Charlie (horse) in the spring time he lost a huge amount of weight, had colicky symptoms, went off his food (vet called him anorexic on my insurance claim) and was in a lot of pain. Blood work just showed a raised level of white blood cells but nothing else unusual and it wasn’t until we did a faecal egg count that the worm burden became clear. Charlie was treated with a huge dose of Panacur but made a significant improvement after this but we had to do this every spring as he was always prone to the same symptoms.
I know and appreciate it sounds Like I’m grasping at straws but as Bella has near identical symptoms 12 months on then I’m wondering if she could have a worm / parasite burden but I’m basing this on my previous knowledge and the last thing I want to do is offend a vet...if any of you have any thoughts then your opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Below is an article on red worm and the trouble they can cause in horses

Worming against encysted small redworm

 

[Wiebke]

Hello there,

just wondered if I could get people‘s thoughts, opinions, past experiences about something that is happening with my guinea pig Bella..almost a year ago Bella became unwell whilst we were away on holiday and I wrote this post about her;



well...a year later and we’re in exactly the same situation again. Bella quietened down approx 2 weeks ago and stopped eating so much and started losing weight again, I took her to the vets (Kristina that saw her last year has now left but we have new a exotic vet who seems very knowledgeable) and he examined her and said she had large cystic ovaries and these would be causing pain so she was booked in for an urgent spay the next day. Operation thankfully went very smoothly and she came home the same day with metacam and was great for 6 days ( she had post op check and was signed off) and then last Thursday stopped eating and developed a very upset stomach. Syringe fed her on the Thursday and she was taken back to the vets last Friday for fluids, pain relief and a full examination as she had then stopped eating completely. Things are tricky with the current coronavirus so clients aren’t allowed in to the surgery, we just had our pets over at the door and then have phone conversations regarding diagnosis. Bella was diagnosed with a raised temperature and GI stasis last Friday so was started on a course of Septrin and had vetergesic too as well as gut stimulants. I collected her on Friday evening and she was very quiet. She was more awake on Saturday but was obviously in a great deal of pain still with her stomach so I took her back to the vets for more fluids and she was also prescribed tramad too. Her temperature had decreased too which they were pleased with. So we’ve been on Metacam, Tramadol, Metaclopramide, Zantac and Septrin since last Friday and although Bella is thankfully stable she is not at all interested in food (exactly like last year- looks interested but then turns away) so we are syringe feeding her with Emeraid numerous times a day, we do have poo’s coming out the other end but they are understandably small. I’ve just spoken to our vet and he is disappointed to hear that there is no real improvement as yet and I will probably take her in tomorrow for further examination.
Last year we were in this situation for about 3 weeks before Bella suddenly got better and we have had no further health issues with her over the last year. Kristina did a blood test last year and it showed raised white blood cells but no other issues to note and Cristian (vet) has mentioned today about doing another blood test but he’s unsure if it will show anything up. Bella has had xrays, ultrasound and her heart and lungs checked and there is no issue with anything else that can be seen / heard so it seems to be solely in her digestive tract.
Anyway...now to my question to you all...I‘m wondering if Bella could have a worm / parasite burden and I’m debating asking ( but desperately hoping not to offend) Cristian if I could try a course of Panacur just in case it could help. I’ve searched on this site for worming issues and I appreciate that they are a rare occurrence in guinea pigs but I had a horse 15 years ago that came to me with a poor worming history and it transpired that he had a worm burden and in particular of red worm. His previous owners had never had his symptoms of investigated and just put it down to him being odd every spring. So when I had Charlie (horse) in the spring time he lost a huge amount of weight, had colicky symptoms, went off his food (vet called him anorexic on my insurance claim) and was in a lot of pain. Blood work just showed a raised level of white blood cells but nothing else unusual and it wasn’t until we did a faecal egg count that the worm burden became clear. Charlie was treated with a huge dose of Panacur but made a significant improvement after this but we had to do this every spring as he was always prone to the same symptoms.
I know and appreciate it sounds Like I’m grasping at straws but as Bella has near identical symptoms 12 months on then I’m wondering if she could have a worm / parasite burden but I’m basing this on my previous knowledge and the last thing I want to do is offend a vet...if any of you have any thoughts then your opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Below is an article on red worm and the trouble they can cause in horses

Worming against encysted small redworm

Have you discussed this with your new vet and are they willing to test?
As you have had a previous proven case with an infestation of worms where you live, your vet should be open to take this into consideration.

 

[Wiebke]

@furryfriends (TEAS) @Abi_nurse

 

[Clare King]

Have you discussed this with your new vet and are they willing to test?
As you have had a previous proven case with an infestation of worms where you live, your vet should be open to take this into consideration.

Hi Wiebke, I mentioned my thoughts to the nurse that collected Bella last Friday when I dropped her off and asked them to go through all of her notes from last year as the symptoms are so similar. The nurse said that she would pass on my thoughts / information but as Bella had a temperature then they thought a post op infection was more likely so they prescribed the septrin. I’ve spoken to the vet again this morning and as we’ve not seen a huge improvement then I mentioned again my thoughts but they think want to do a blood test or try stronger pain relief as the next step.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi Wiebke, I mentioned my thoughts to the nurse that collected Bella last Friday when I dropped her off and asked them to go through all of her notes from last year as the symptoms are so similar. The nurse said that she would pass on my thoughts / information but as Bella had a temperature then they thought a post op infection was more likely so they prescribed the septrin. I’ve spoken to the vet again this morning and as we’ve not seen a huge improvement then I mentioned again my thoughts but they think want to do a blood test or try stronger pain relief as the next step.

I would try to push for either - the blood test and the pain relief.

 

[Clare King]

Hence me posting on here to just see if anyone has ever dealt with anything like this before. We’re certainly not going to give up on Bella as she made an almost miraculous recovery last year but I’m just wondering if it might be worth trying panacur (I don’t know if it could cause more issues) to save her going through weeks of discomfort which we had last year.

 

[Wiebke]

Hence me posting on here to just see if anyone has ever dealt with anything like this before. We’re certainly not going to give up on Bella as she made an almost miraculous recovery last year but I’m just wondering if it might be worth trying panacur (I don’t know if it could cause more issues) to save her going through weeks of discomfort which we had last year.

I haven't got any personal experience but have marked your thread as specialist and have tagged our two medically most experienced members.

@PigglePuggle may also be much better poised to advise you as that is her medical speciality.

 

[Clare King]

I would try to push for either - the blood test and the pain relief.

Thanks Wiebke, I’ll see how her appt goes tomorrow then, vetergesic seemed to ‘flatten’ her completely so if at all possible then I’ll only use that as a last resort

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks Wiebke, I’ll see how her appt goes tomorrow then, vetergesic seemed to ‘flatten’ her completely so if at all possible then I’ll only use that as a last resort

Have a look into this thread later on today or tomorrow morning. You may get some more qualified and expert advice than I can give you in this particular area.

All the best!

 

[Rivervixen]

Hope you can get the help you need - big hugs hun

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

It is possible although not common for guinea pigs to have intestinal parasites and ordinarily panacur can be used safely to treat them. I have no idea tho if it can be used safely in conjunction with the other
medication she is on. If your vet says it is safe then it might be a good idea, even if just for your own peace of mind. Vets should be open to hearing about your worries or thoughts and past experiences, it's ok to ask questions. It's just people who think a quick Google search is the equivalent of a veterinary degree they find frustrating!
You are right about the vetergesic flattening them, it is an excellent short term pain relief but also has sedative properties and can also suppress appetite, so if possible staying with the metacamis best.
The problem is most likely a combination of things; the effect of the anaesthetic slowing her guts, the antibiotics causing an imbalance in her gut flora, etc. Poor girl she has been through a lot, I hope she gets better soon.