Question About Aneurysm

[CarnivalPiggy]

One of my girls, Teddy - rip, was pts in April 2016 after an aneurysm struck. At the time, I was frazzled, knew no gpig savvy vets nearby at the time and ended up going to an usual local vet in which they advised putting her to sleep (and went on to do that as I knew not a clue what to do).

I'm aware I can't do anything now, but I'm wondering what the effects would be if I didn't get her pts. They, the local vet, said her life would be constant distress for her. Would there have been even a chance of survival? Would it be the life of a pig similiar to a lethal? I've never experienced any event of aneurysms outside of Teddy's, human or otherwise.

 

[rome_italy]

only a witch can say what is the future of a person or a pet after a stroke/aneurysm. I had a lot of relatives affected by those strokes; everyone was supposed to die, to be in bed for the rest of his/her life and so on. Actually things ended up differently with them... a young cousin recovered amazingly, my aunt who should have recovered had on the contrary a bad life... It is like talking of micropreemies; at the University a friend of mine was one of them; she was born at 27 weeks (I am talking of someone born in the Seventies) and had only some visual impairment and other stuff, but she graduated... doctors told her mother there was no hope for her.
About pets I see that this "pts" is often given only for not having big problems. In fact the vets could not cure them and the owners couldn't even spend a fortune; therefore the advise of ending a probably poor life is right, but what I cannot stand is that it is suggested with great excuses only for making us feeling fine with our conscience. I would prefer a vet who advises me the euthanasia just saying "it is not CONVENIENT for both of you and me to have to deal with such an ill pet". I prefer the truth always.
About your past choice: you made the right thing. For you. The risk of living with a handicapped pet was high, the distress would have been for you only and this is not that good: you have your life, your family, your healthy pets, you couldn't wake up in the night once every 2 hours for feeding a paralysed pet... My aunt had her private nurse (paid by the sanitary system); her family got a benefit for dealing with all the problem (but had a great distress)... and a lot of times we relatives, aftering visiting my poor aunt, said that euthanasia in certain cases is the best choice FOR THE FAMILY and that the pets are very lucky.
"What if" is something which nobody can know... but the risk of a poor life was really too high.

 

[DM030819]

I've had 4 pigs with different brain issues, and 4 different outcomes.

Bert recovered fine. He had another a few months later and passed away during the episode.

Arnold was in the vet overnight and couldn't walk. He slowly learned to walk again but had a head tilt. He was euthanised about 7 months later for a different issue.

Anselmo slowly lost control of his bodily functions and so stopped eating. I had to euthanise him as there was no way that we could get his muscle functions moving again.

Jon Snow has had two seizures/issues that I've witnessed. He is tired and quiet for the rest of the day but recovers 100%.

You can never tell with this sort of thing. 4 very different scenarios with very different endings.

 

[CarnivalPiggy]

Thank you both for your interesting answers. Seeing signs of recovery in other pigs make me wonder if I jumped the gun. I knew nothing about aneurysms at the time (or seizures. Teddy looked like she was so far away). I can't do anything now but it makes me kind of wish I knew more or had a vet who might've thought it would be a better chance.

 

[Freela]

Was it a stroke or an aneurysm (they are different- stroke is caused by interruption of blood flow to the brain- either due to blockage or due to blood leaking out of the vessel into the brain.) An aneurysm is usually arterial and an area of the wall weakens and then bursts, causing massive bleeding into the brain (and sometimes sudden death, depending on the blood loss.) The symptoms for both can be similar, the treatments will vary. People (and animals) can sometimes recover well from strokes. I have no experience of aneurysms in pets, but have known a few people who have had one burst (two recovered fully but needed surgery to cut of the bleeding artery in the brain, one survived but had moderate brain damage, one died before an ambulance could arrive.) My guess is that a guinea pig with an aneurysm would have a very poor prognosis, as the surgical techniques to save them would probably not be available.

 

[Freela]

Here is an article discussing the differences between a stroke and an aneurysm. It's aimed at humans, but is true for animals as well. Both are emergencies, but strokes by and large are more survivable and more likely to have a good recovery.

Stroke vs. Aneurysm: What is the Difference?

 

[rome_italy]

I wrote "stroke" about my relatives, but what happened was an aneurysm actually. Anyway, the human medicine and surgery is something pets cannot have (because nobody among the owners could even afford the 1% of the huge cost of certain procedures). But I don't understand the reason for paying an euthanasia considering that for a massive (brain) bleeding due to an aneurysm the pet (and the human) simply die in few hours or minutes time... It seems that the natural death at home is something which scares vets and owners. (I understand the vet, as it is his business...)

 

[CarnivalPiggy]

I was told it was aneurysm. In my case Teddy was pts as I was unaware of anything about it aside from the vets advising. Main thing was until then I had somehow reached four or five, six years without any medical issues in any of my pigs and didn't have any experience in medical. I've got two somewhat savvy vets nearby now but at the time knew none

 

[rome_italy]

I guess you piggie had no hope indeed... and consider that Peppa and Porridge would maybe never come to you if you had been a real slave to an handicapped piggie. It might have been even a shock for you in dealing with an ill pig and you would probably give up to have piggies. I kept alive my piggie for long, handfeeding him... it was a bad experience and I waited 15 years before adopting them again. In my case it was a different story, but the ending part was the same... an ill piggie who needed to eat/drink/having medicines around the clock. That is life, though. He did not show any sign of sufference and here most vets don't put to sleep pets who are not at the end of their days and don't show a clear sign of pain. Aneurysms need cares and also much money... And honestly a pet should bring serenity at home, not troubles.
What I have written before, in the last post, was not referred to you and your situation, but to certain facts I have seen around me... owners running to the vet with dying pets in arms... and the vet who considering that pts as an urgence, because it is night, has the nerve to ask 150-200€! all of that for not waiting the last breath... and with the convenient excuse that the pet was in pain...
Now it is time to think to our living piggies and enjoy them...

 

[Freela]

I wrote "stroke" about my relatives, but what happened was an aneurysm actually. Anyway, the human medicine and surgery is something pets cannot have (because nobody among the owners could even afford the 1% of the huge cost of certain procedures). But I don't understand the reason for paying an euthanasia considering that for a massive (brain) bleeding due to an aneurysm the pet (and the human) simply die in few hours or minutes time... It seems that the natural death at home is something which scares vets and owners. (I understand the vet, as it is his business...)

I think that euthanasia is likely offered to ease any pain/suffering if death is prolonged. Most vets probably want to offer the option of a quick and painless passing and a lot of owners are probably very willing to pay for euthanasia if it spares their pet discomfort. With humans it is easier to talk to them to see if they are in pain and if pain relief measures are working during the process of dying. With pets, there is often no way to tell, which may make owners reluctant to just wait things out, not knowing if there is pain. I've had pets that died at home and pets that had to be put to sleep (including one who would have died within hours anyhow, as she had a probably uterine tumor that started to hemorrhage.) My reasoning was that I was not sure if she was in pain and, if she was, I did not want her to have to spend the next hour or two in pain when I could just let her go to sleep peacefully and pass that way instead.

 

[CarnivalPiggy]

Interesting topic I, like Freela, believe in anaesthesia if needed. For example, my darling Minja died quite a horrible way, found her after a shower too weak to stand so her teeth were lightly hooked to the bars. She was spewing up green bile, and on the kitchen table did large gasps to try and breathe, where she passed, suspected from a bursted tumour. I don't know how long she'd been like that, but she'd been poorly for a while and I sometimes wish I had her pts peacefully rather the way she left.

But on the other hand, Ginny died at the end of May. I was heavily advised by a vet to have him pts there and then or in a few days, which I didn't as he was still bright eyed and walking happily about other than his gas episodes. He ended up having a week or two left to his life, and while not long I remember the night before he died I was wasting time watching homemade rollercoasters on YouTube late and he lied on my lap for a while. I would have missed this opportunity had I put him to sleep. He ended up dying a pretty peaceful death (suspected kidney failure) on the comfiest bed in the house other than a few gasps of air and recoils very near the end. If I had opted for the vet he would have left a bit too early and in a clinical setting in which I would most likely not even see him leaving in another room. Sometimes I believe he didn't want to leave, he was still trying to walk even as he left.

It's hard to know when to let them leave sometimes, at least for me. There's always that bit of hope that they'll recover and I'm never sure when that has gone and I'm clinging on oops sorry got a bit ranty x

 

[rome_italy]

I also believe in euthanasia of course and I would use it also for humans. But there is something I saw that did not convince me. I am not talking of you and Freela. I am thinking of the cat living here in my building together with other cats. When he arrived here the vet was clear: he was ill and without any hope, he needed to put him to sleep. It happened 7 years ago and the cat is still here, fat and lively. And I was referring to vets who put to sleep a pet who is going to die as well in a few hours only for earning some money. The last story belongs to a friend of mine with a female cat who gave birth to three kittens; one normal size and other two desperately underweight and the female cat seemed to be without milk. My friend chose to follow the nature and did nothing. The vet insisted to say those kittens were disabled and with some neurologic defect and it was abosolutely necessary to put them to sleep. This happened one month ago.
These are the two "disabled" kittens today:

these pics have been sent to the vet and my friend is waiting for his reply, if he will have the courage to reply...

 

[CarnivalPiggy]

I agree on both and lovely to know they were given the chance to live. I would be, not to be rude/nosy, interested in what the vet says. I had a similiar occasion once. What cuties xx it's interesting that doing nothing did something

 

[rome_italy]

I agree on both and lovely to know they were given the chance to live. I would be, not to be rude/nosy, interested in what the vet says. I had a similiar occasion once. What cuties xx it's interesting that doing nothing did something

actually my friend is fuming! This is the story:the first kitten was stillborn, a second one died on the first day... the vet came at home and said that these two kitten had to die (mother with no milk enough and two "rats" unable to eat)... he wanted to handfeed the kittens and did nothing because they were handicapped (?)... he was very sad (although this pregnancy was a bad surprise. Ah! the female cat was considered sterile by the vet! she had never shown the heat and had never had babies before for years). Only few days ago he gave a name to the kittens, because he was only waiting for their death... what he says is that he spent sad days working hard at the countryside for not thinking too much, leaving the female cat and the kittens alone for dying in peace...
This is the new pic sent to the vet! My friend is not so delicate... anyway I say that certain vets should not have any customer...