Possibility of Guinea Pigs With Gluten Intolerance Linked To Bladder Problems

Please don’t take offence.
We are all volunteers and there are limited resources as we all have lives jobs and families outside the forum. The H & I section of the forum is regularly monitored so that we can give as much help and advice as is needed to people who ask for help. We aren’t used to seeing discursive threads in there that are not seeking advice. When a new H &I adviser logs on they need to read the thread to find out what help/advice is needed, and this one has become quite long.
It’s now in guinea pig chat where it will remain open for any members to read, and comment as they wish.
Personally I’ve been feeding a grain free diet to my piggies for years after it was recommended by a vet and also recommended on here in the guide that I have linked for you. I’m not a scientist. I don’t understand the theory behind it, but if it works that’s good enough for me. But that is just me.
 
Yes please dont take offence, the main argument for me as a scientist for grain free is very simple: guinea pigs didnt evolve to eat grains, gluten or not grains have too much protein for what guinea pigs are naturally adapted to eat. They eat grass, hay, low calorie plants... and while a very limited amount of grain free pellets may add a few essential vitamins and minerals to their diet (like vit D which indoor piggies dont get from the sun) they are in my mind more a vitamin/mineral supplement than a major food group.
Pellets have their place, but piggies should mostly eat hay, grass, and a few vegetables as they evolved to eat naturally.
Coeliac is a human medical term for a defective processing/enhanced maladaptive inflammatory immune response in a few individuals to a nutrient we have mostly evolved to thrive on since the advent of agriculture- so it doesnt really apply to animals that havent evolved eating wheat grains. That would be my thinking on this.
 
No one said you overstepped. Please don’t be hurt or feel shunned. Hopefully it will get more bites now it’s been moved here.
 
First and most important - You have found the source of Daisy's problems and I'm so glad that she is enjoying her best healthy life now! And I'm glad you've been passionate enough to look into these things and express your views and ideas so comprehensively - where would she be if you hadn't? And don't cry, you'll make me sad and it's fine really - we're all interested in piggy health on here and the nuances that can be involved!

Second, I've been a member six months and the health experts here on the forum aren't just expressing their own personal views on pellet quantity (although I'm sure they are in agreement!) - it's the opinion formed by lots of people over many years and the forum pellet message is the currant 'Gold Standard' that lets people know to think about quantity as well as 'quality'. Now we don't all meet that standard, whether by accident or design, and for some piggies (most? I don't know!) it doesn't make any difference, but for some it does. And if people end up finding the forum as they try to find out why our beloved piggie cries out as it toilets then they know a good thing to try for starters.

Third, as far as I know piggies (and rabbits) are designed to excrete excess calcium in urine, not faeces (?) I might be over simplifying and someone please correct me if this is wrong, but I thought they absorbed all the calcium they ingest, and excrete the excess via the kidneys? People don't absorb all the calcium they eat - so excess gets pooped out. I read this and thought "Why on earth are they designed to absorb all the calcium they eat, that sounds crazy!" but then I remembered that unlike people, their teeth are constantly growing and that calcium might not be that abundant in grass (although there obviously must be enough for cows!)

Fourth - and here my ignorance shows clearly - I know some piggies love the fuzzy seed heads on the grasses in hay. Three of mine avoid them like the plague and one actively 'treasure hunts' them out. I don't know if there is any gluten in these or not though so I don't know whether piggies would have evolved to metabolise some - unless they were coeliac pigs just like there is a small proportion of coeliac people.

And a big finally - although our domestic pigs aren't anything like their wild ancestors anymore I think it's quite possible that the expected lifespan of one 'in the wild' would be, at a push, 2 to 3 years what with the almost constant reproducing, lactating (the ladies), growing teeth, avoiding disease and escaping predators. As nature is brutally unsentimental this would mean that any piggie slightly past it's prime would either be eaten or die off pretty rapidly, possibly in merciless circumstances. And any genetic selection would be occurring before that time. Soooooooo (big deep breath - possible controversy approaching) it might not be so much that we are doing something 'wrong' if a 3+ pig gets calcium woes... it's just that evolution has not had a chance over the last 10,000 years to weed out the 'defective' stone-formers. I suppose it's just possible that sludge is genetically inevitable and all we can do is we try to reduce the amount?

*** And I apologise to anyone on here who has grown heartily sick of my massive posts - not doing social media means I'm not accustomed to the 'short and to the point' way which I find really hard! Feel free to skip them, I won't be offended! :roll: ***
 
I am pleased that you have been able to help Daisy with your research. That is great!

Thanks for writing up your thoughts here on the forum :) They will certainly get lots of views in guinea pig chat as it is one of the most read sections of the forum. Posts in H&I get bumped down really quickly as it is what draws lots of posts into the forum, probably the most posted in section, but requests for help can get missed, hence why guinea pig chat is the best for this piece of research.
 
I’m not expert but I don’t believe it’s gluten intolerance but instead to do with the amount of calcium being consumed. Grain-free and grass based pellets are recommended due to having a lower calcium content. If you’re finding an improvement using grain free pellets rather than regular ones, I’d lean towards it being a calcium issue which has been causing her a lot of bladder pain and discomfort.
Pellets really should only be given in small quantities of 1 tablespoon per pig. I’d say pellets are more unnecessary than necessary, they’re used for bridging any gaps in nutrition. I’ve seen no adverse effects by providing no pellets at all or only one tablespoon of pellets per week. Instead I’ve experienced more negative effects by giving pellets daily - not in every pig, just one. It’s good you’ve sorted your piggies bladder problems, but if they started up again, I’d be inclined to cut out pellets entirely from her diet and see what happens. Along with obviously any vegetables and herbs high in calcium like parsley, kale, etc.
Not to mention that guinea pigs are more prone to bladder issues due to eating a very dry diet. I believe with piggies that are prone to sludge, there is a recommendation to syringe them about 10-15mls of water a day (as long as it is accepted by them) just to make sure they’re consuming enough water to keep their bladder flushed out. It’s also why many people feed what I believe we call on here the TEAS diet (I could be wrong, it’s been a while since I read it!). Which is basically where you soak/wet all veg with water before you give it in order to up the water content consumed. This idea came from Simon, the most specialist guinea pig vet in all of the UK and is used by the rescue TEAS who shared this knowledge with us all. Basically, guinea pigs eat an extremely dry diet with hay and then pellets which can have adverse effects on the bladder.
I’m not a medical professional so I’m not entirely dismissing your theory, however I feel like were gluten intolerance a problem with Guinea pigs, it probably would be more widely known as there are many many piggies who suffer from some kind of bladder issue - if that makes sense?
 
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