Please help - loss of appetite and bloating

[Popcorn bby]

My pigs are getting both Doxycycline and Baytril at once. I know giving cisapride with Baytril is fine, but is it still fine to give cisapride with both Doxycycline and Baytril?


Also, this is a separate question, but on the Doxycycline it says "Take with food", but i can't give one Piggie vegetables because because she has gases. If I were to switch the vegetables for critical care, would that still count as food? Please reply asap
(I don't want to bother you but I really do need a reply soon so I'm tagging
@Wiebke )

 

[Piggies Popcorn]

My guinea pig popcorn has been on antibiotics, baytril for seven days, and she just started doxycycline yesterday (she’s had three doses). Today she was eating no hay, and drinking no water. Her stomach was hard and ballooned up. At about 8pm, she’s started eating hay again! Although not too much. But her stomach is the same, and she’s still not drinking water (I could only manage to feed her one syringe of it). She’s also having lots of diarrhea, not the runny watery kind, but the mushy deformed kind (picture). We have cisapride (at the right dose) which we were planning to give since it could help relieve the gas. However cisapride is a gut stimulant, and since she’s already having lots and lots of diarrhea, would it make her gut overwork itself? Would she get worse? I know simethicone is not recommended, but I think I’m gonna use it in hopes it helps. I really need a reply fast! She’s really gassy and her tummy is hard. I’ve been giving little massages but nothing seems to be working much. So please, I’ll ask again, would giving her cisapride when she’s having diarrhea help or make her worse? WHAT SHOULD I DO PLEASE REPLY ASAP

 

[Piggies Popcorn]

@Wiebke @Abi_nurse @Adelle @furryfriends (TEAS) @pig in the city please reply asap

 

[Lady Kelly]

I hope someone who has an answer comes along soon. I haven't dealt with bloat so I'm not sure. Have you tried calling the vet for advice as well?

 

[Lady Kelly]

Also, I'm assuming you are in America, it's worth remembering that the forum is UK based and all the members you tagged are in the UK so when you were asking this question it's likely all were tucked up in bed

 

[Whortleberry]

Hi Piggies Popcorn,

These things can be very stressful. I do feel for you.

I am not an expert; it looks like you've tagged many of them.

Have you tried calling the vet for advice as well?

Seems like very sensible action.

The only things I might add are: did the vet who gave you the cisapride tell you when to use it? And is the "diarrhoea" you're talking about in the photo? I don't think the photo shows diarrhoea. To me that looks like small dry poo and I'm imagining that's because Popcorn hasn't been eating and drinking (you said she hadn't for much of yesterday). Pigs rely on volume of fibre (hay) and chewing (more hay) to stimulate the gut and when they are ill and not eating we need to step in to help, generally by syringe feeding. When they are on antibiotics they also need probiotics to help with friendly microbes needed for digestion.

There is lots of info in the following guides:
Health Emergency Resource Guides

I don't know if this is of any help but I'm wishing you all the best.

 

[Piggies Popcorn]

Also, I'm assuming you are in America, it's worth remembering that the forum is UK based and all the members you tagged are in the UK so when you were asking this question it's likely all were tucked up in bed

Probably should have though of that beforehand, my bad!

 

[Piggies Popcorn]

Hi Piggies Popcorn,

These things can be very stressful. I do feel for you.

I am not an expert; it looks like you've tagged many of them.



Seems like very sensible action.

The only things I might add are: did the vet who gave you the cisapride tell you when to use it? And is the "diarrhoea" you're talking about in the photo? I don't think the photo shows diarrhoea. To me that looks like small dry poo and I'm imagining that's because Popcorn hasn't been eating and drinking (you said she hadn't for much of yesterday). Pigs rely on volume of fibre (hay) and chewing (more hay) to stimulate the gut and when they are ill and not eating we need to step in to help, generally by syringe feeding. When they are on antibiotics they also need probiotics to help with friendly microbes needed for digestion.

There is lots of info in the following guides:
Health Emergency Resource Guides

I don't know if this is of any help but I'm wishing you all the best.

Well this Piggie did go into mild GI Stasis a while ago, where she refused to eat anything and wasn't pooping anything. The cisapride cured her and ever since then we always get refills (when it expires in like a month) so that we always have one available for if she was ever to stop pooping again. And yes, those are the poops. In real life they were actually quite mushy and some were sticky as well. I gave her some benebac which seems to have firmed them up a bit. She's also started eating more hay and drinking water! Tomorrow we are not giving tje antibiotics though, instead we are going to call the vet and tell them about what is going on. She seems to be in pain though, although I do not know if I can give her metacam while she has gotten antibiotics (I think I'm gonna just give it to her though). Thanks for the reply!

 

[Whortleberry]

Good idea to get vet advice.
Also to make sure you're weighing Popcorn every day.

Having an ill pig is ever so stressful.
I hope you find a way through and ways of looking after you in amongst it all.

 

[Piggies Popcorn]

Have you tried calling the vet for advice as well?

The vet is closed right now, however tomorrow we are going to call. I gave her .3cc of cisapride, and the tiniest piece of red leaf lettuce. I know for a fact she's going to get through this, although it's still stressful nonetheless

 

[Wiebke]

My guinea pig popcorn has been on antibiotics, baytril for seven days, and she just started doxycycline yesterday (she’s had three doses). Today she was eating no hay, and drinking no water. Her stomach was hard and ballooned up. At about 8pm, she’s started eating hay again! Although not too much. But her stomach is the same, and she’s still not drinking water (I could only manage to feed her one syringe of it). She’s also having lots of diarrhea, not the runny watery kind, but the mushy deformed kind (picture). We have cisapride (at the right dose) which we were planning to give since it could help relieve the gas. However cisapride is a gut stimulant, and since she’s already having lots and lots of diarrhea, would it make her gut overwork itself? Would she get worse? I know simethicone is not recommended, but I think I’m gonna use it in hopes it helps. I really need a reply fast! She’s really gassy and her tummy is hard. I’ve been giving little massages but nothing seems to be working much. So please, I’ll ask again, would giving her cisapride when she’s having diarrhea help or make her worse? WHAT SHOULD I DO PLEASE REPLY ASAP

Hi!

You need to see a vet ASAP if your guinea pig has bloat and is not eating. This is a potentially life threatening condition. Cisapride is not an specific anti-bloat medication. You can give it, but you need specifically zantac/ranitidine.
Here is our detailed bloat/not eating advice: Bloat, GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating
Here is the link to our emergency support care for the time we are not around. you can access all our emergency guides at the top of our health/illness section: Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

Your poos do show some tummy upset but not diarrhea. This is what you'd expect from two lots of strong antibiotics. any antibiotic can impact on the gut biome or even wipe it out. Please step in with syringe feeding support if your piggy is not eating and support it with probiotics and/or poo soup if you have a healthy companion.

Strong antibiotics, especially a combination thereof can impact on the microbiome in the gut. Please step in with syringe feed.

 

[sport_billy]

Why is she on two lots of antibiotic? How long has she left on the course?

 

[Popcorn bby]

Hi!

You need to see a vet ASAP if your guinea pig has bloat and is not eating. This is a potentially life threatening condition. Cisapride is not an specific anti-bloat medication. You can give it, but you need specifically zantac/ranitidine.
Here is our detailed bloat/not eating advice: Bloat, GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating
Here is the link to our emergency support care for the time we are not around. you can access all our emergency guides at the top of our health/illness section: Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

Your poos do show some tummy upset but not diarrhea. This is what you'd expect from two lots of strong antibiotics. any antibiotic can impact on the gut biome or even wipe it out. Please step in with syringe feeding support if your piggy is not eating and support it with probiotics and/or poo soup if you have a healthy companion.

Strong antibiotics, especially a combination thereof can impact on the microbiome in the gut. Please step in with syringe feed.

Hi! She's started eating hay and pellets a good amount, and she was drinking some water although still a bit less than usual. I've been giving her critical care all day, and I've given her .3 cc cisapride and some simethicone. We're calling the vet as soon as they open, to see what we can do since despite the great improvements her stomach is still really big. Do you think metacam would help her? I've been giving little tummy rubs. I also forgot to add that her poops have gone back to healthy for the most part.

 

[Wiebke]

Please give her metacam.

Be aware that simethicone collects gas in one large bubble. that is fine for colicky babies but a problem for guinea pigs to work that out.
You can find information on the various drugs in the bloat guide link in my first post.

 

[Popcorn bby]

Why is she on two lots of antibiotic? How long has she left on the course?

She was originally placed on Baytril for possible URI, but since her and her sister were still sneezing lots by the fifth day, the vet added in some Doxycycline, which she's had three doses of so far (we've stopped giving it to her). They have about three days left on Baytril. She's coughed twice today but other than that she hasn't shown much symptoms for a good while now. We are gonna hold off on the antibiotics until we can get a hold of the vet.

 

[Fantasimo]

Unfortunately my very first pig died of very sudden bloat and it was awful to witness as she was in a lot of pain and it was a long drive to the emergency vet

But the vet is definitely the way to go with this one. If it gets too bad and pushes on the guinea pigs organs then they will need to expel the gas.

Best of luck

 

[Popcorn bby]

I

Please give her metacam.

Be aware that simethicone collects gas in one large bubble. that is fine for dogs and cats but a problem for guinea pigs to work that out.
You can find information on the various drugs in the bloat guide link in my first post.

I just gave her some metacam. Yikes, luckily I gave her half the dose the vet prescribed.

 

[Wiebke]

I

I just gave her some metacam. Yikes, luckily I gave her half the dose the vet prescribed.

Please keep vibrating and ask for ranitidine; that is the most important bloat drug!

Your vet needs to ideally check whether you are dealing with bloat, blockage or a twisted gut.

 

[Popcorn bby]

Unfortunately my very first pig died of very sudden bloat and it was awful to witness as she was in a lot of pain and it was a long drive to the emergency vet

But the vet is definitely the way to go with this one. If it gets too bad and pushes on the guinea pigs organs then they will need to expel the gas.

Best of luck ❤

I'm so sorry for your loss.

We are gonna call first to see what she thinks, and if she believes we should bring her in, we will for sure. We are kind of short on money from so many vet trips and the Doxycycline was 108 US dollars. Hopefully my mom understands that this is serious. My baby is gonna get through it though, and that's a fact

 

[Popcorn bby]

Please keep vibrating and ask for ranitidine; that is the most important bloat drug!

I'll make sure to! We still have to wait a few hours for the vet to open though, but I know she's gonna make it

 

[Popcorn bby]

Please keep vibrating and ask for ranitidine; that is the most important bloat drug!

Your vet needs to ideally check whether you are dealing with bloat, blockage or a twisted gut.

I'm no vet, and I'll be sure to ask, but she's pooping, so does that cancel out the blockage possibility? What exactly is twisted gut? Her sides are hard and hollow.

 

[Wiebke]

I'm no vet, and I'll be sure to ask, but she's pooping, so does that cancel out the blockage possibility? What exactly is twisted gut? Her sides are hard and hollow.

Pooping is a good sign; if she is also still eating, then that means that the gut is still working.
A twisted gut is an extremely painful and usually fatal condition when a bit of gut is trapped and cut off by a sling of another part of the gut. It is not quite as common but can happen anytime to anybody; it can also happen to humans and can be fatal for them, too. The belly quickly feels like concrete and not just hard. I've lost two piggies to it in retrospect. It generally appears like an unstoppable severe bloats that happens out of nowhere and develops very quickly to the grunting in agony stage, at which you want to race your piggy to the vets for euthanasia. You need to have immediate access to a very experienced small animal expert right at the onset for a change at a life-sabving emergency operation - and most of us haven't.

 

[Popcorn bby]

Pooping is a good sign; if she is also still eating, then that means that the gut is still working.
A twisted gut is an extremely painful and usually fatal condition when a bit of gut is trapped and cut off by a sling of another part of the gut. It is not quite as common but can happen anytime to anybody; it can also happen to humans and can be fatal for them, too. The belly quickly feels like concrete and not just hard. I've lost two piggies to it in retrospect. It generally appears like an unstoppable severe bloats that happens out of nowhere and develops very quickly to the grunting in agony stage.

Oh goodness that's terrible! I'm so sorry about your piggies. Is there any treatment for it?

 

[Wiebke]

Oh goodness that's terrible! I'm so sorry about your piggies. Is there any treatment for it?

An immediate emergency operation to free the trapped piece of gut is the only way - that is possible for humans, but rarely possible for any pets, especially small furries, who require immediate access to a piggy savvy vet with experience in very tricky operations. Guinea pig guts are very thin and small with very thin walls - and there is a lot of them compared to humans - most of a guinea pig is in fact gut.

 

[Popcorn bby]

An immediate emergency operation to free the trapped piece of gut is the only way - that is possible for humans, but rarely possible for any pets, especially small furries, who require immediate access to a piggy savvy vet with experience in very tricky operations. Guinea pig guts are very thin and small with very thin walls - and there is a lot of them compared to humans - most of a guinea pig is in fact gut.

That sounds terrifying. To lighten up the mood though, I just massaged my guinea"s tummy for a good 15 minutes, and for the first time since I've started massaging her belly I heard gases coming out! Although her stomach LOOKS the same, she's acting way more energetic and happy. I'm going to give her tummy massages all day till the gases are out. Plus we will ask the vet about the Zantac. She'll heal soon!

 

[Wiebke]

That sounds terrifying. To lighten up the mood though, I just massaged my guinea"s tummy for a good 15 minutes, and for the first time since I've started massaging her belly I heard gases coming out! Although her stomach LOOKS the same, she's acting way more energetic and happy. I'm going to give her tummy massages all day till the gases are out. Plus we will ask the vet about the Zantac. She'll heal soon!

Hang on in there - it is definitely not a twisted gut and rather sounds like a normal severe bloat. Be aware it comes in waves; it is not just a one off blowing up and that is it.

 

[Whortleberry]

Good luck @Popcorn bby
I'm glad you've had a helpful conversation with @Wiebke

 

[Abi_nurse]

Looks like most people have got this sorted. Sorry I haven't been around, run off my feet until today.

A few pointers which may help though Wiebke really does have you covered here.
- hay (or alternatively critical care food) is one of the best pro biotics and gut stimulants because it promotes normal bacteria, releases hormones and promotes the guts to move and therefore will really help out with bloat issues
- exercise will increase gut movement and help so try to get your little one moving as much as you can but it can be difficult as it's painful for them so good pain relief is paramount
- twisted guts (most usually a twisted stomach) usually results in sudden death and the signs before can either be nothing or very severe pain, drooling, retching and laboured breathing but thankfully your little piggies does not sound like this at all.

Keeping fingers crossed for you.
I think in the long run many of these bloating issues is down to poor balanced diet and too much fresh food in the diet. Then they get tipped more out of sync due to antibiotics which the gut bacteria should be able to take well. But this is simply an observation and my own view but may not be completely correct.

Keep us all posted.
x

 

[eileen]

Ive seen human intestines and there is a large amount......22 feet.takes up most of the lower half of the body from the diaphragm !i hope your piggie gets well soon.you have been given excellent advice.

 

[Popcorn bby]

Looks like most people have got this sorted. Sorry I haven't been around, run off my feet until today.

A few pointers which may help though Wiebke really does have you covered here.
- hay (or alternatively critical care food) is one of the best pro biotics and gut stimulants because it promotes normal bacteria, releases hormones and promotes the guts to move and therefore will really help out with bloat issues
- exercise will increase gut movement and help so try to get your little one moving as much as you can but it can be difficult as it's painful for them so good pain relief is paramount
- twisted guts (most usually a twisted stomach) usually results in sudden death and the signs before can either be nothing or very severe pain, drooling, retching and laboured breathing but thankfully your little piggies does not sound like this at all.

Keeping fingers crossed for you.
I think in the long run many of these bloating issues is down to poor balanced diet and too much fresh food in the diet. Then they get tipped more out of sync due to antibiotics which the gut bacteria should be able to take well. But this is simply an observation and my own view but may not be completely correct.

Keep us all posted.
x

I'm feeding lots of critical care as well as benebac. She seems to be able to move and run around good, although touching her sides is very painful for her. I’m really grateful that she doesn’t have twisted gut, that sounds like a real nightmare. We’ve called the vet today, and I don’t think she was much help though. She basically just said keep giving benebac and metacam, and cisapride if she stops pooping. That’s about it. No Zantac or anything. She’s eating hay right now, which I’m very happy about . I’ve given her so many tummy massages, but her stomach is still so huge and painful. I was watching a YouTube video where the piggie being treated for bloat was given .2 mL of simethicone every two hours, and she made it through and healed fully. However a lot of people are telling me simethicone is no good. I’ll insert a picture of both her stomach (although it appears bigger in real life ) and the inactive ingredients in the simethicone, If perhaps that is any help. I’ve heard gripe water is good, although I struggle to find any here in the US. I really need these gases out ASAP, and I know they will come out soon, cuz my baby is strong.