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Piggie with indigestion?

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AliceS

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One of our piggies is off-colour today - he's not eating or moving much. I've taken him to the vet - she says all seems fine, she can hear movement in his digestion, but to bring him back on Wednesday if he's still not eating then. He's pooping and peeing, and bright-eyed, but just not interested in food. He possibly overdid it yesterday - he's been in a grassy run for ten days, but gobbled everythign we offered yesterday (grass, dead nettle, cabbage, lavender, dandelion (flowers and leaves), rosemary..)
My question is: what would be a good thing to offer him overnight/tomorrow, if he's had a sore tummy? Hay feels a bit fibrous, but I don't want to offer anything too 'rich'. But perhaps a tiny bit of apple, lettuce, lambs lettuce, spinach, dandelion...?
 
Please continue to offer him plenty of hay but you must step in with syringe feeding him immediately. Please either use a fibre rich recovery feed (such as oxbow critical care)
or in the absence of recovery feed, please mush his normal pellets with water and syringe feed that to him (mushed pellets is the emergency alternative to critical care).
You need to replace lost hay intake while he is not eating for himself with the syringe feeding to keep his gut going.
Hay being fibrous is exactly what he needs and must have to get it to rebalance. If he doesn’t eat enough fibre then he could go into stasis hence why syringe feeding is life saving now he is not eating enough for himself.

Please make sure you switch to weighing him every morning (instead of the routine weekly checks) to ensure you are syringe feeding him enough to keep his weight stable every morning.

If he has bloat or an unbalanced gut due to too much fresh food then you must not give any veg (and keep him off of grass) while he is unwell. Please just stick with hay and syringe feeding.
Once he is better and eating hay again for himself you can begin to very slowly reintroduce veg. You must do it one veg at a time and literally just one piece - one sprig of a herb on day 1, add in one more sprig on day 2, add a small piece of lettuce on day 3 etc.
Adding too much too soon will just unbalance his gut again.
Once he is ok eating veg you can reintroduce a bit of grass time but again just a few minutes a day until you are sure he is ok with it.
Fresh Grass and Lawn Time - Tips for Avoiding Spring Time Deaths

Has he been given any painkillers, or any other medications?

Please read all the guides below - they detail the importance of syringe feeding as well as other valuable information in dealing with this situation

I hope he is ok

Wiebke's Guide to Tummy Trouble
How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency
Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

Digestive Disorders: Not Eating - Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement)
 
Well, when he recovers I'm almost ready to throw in the towel. Piggies weren't this high-maintenance when I was a child - I have no idea how ours survived for years in the Scottish Borders outdoors (or in a stable) with a smaller hutch, no heat pads, and no syringe feeding etc. Maybe they bred them tougher then. He's had a good drink from the syringe, and i found he had eaten a spinach leaf which I had left for him. The vet certainly didn't suggest force-feeding, just to come back on Wed if no change- though I will call in tomorrow to discuss this with her. He seems sprightly enough this evening so we'll see how he is in the morning.
 
You have had a tough start to piggy keeping.

Knowledge and care advice has changed and moved on so much. We all know things were done differently in the past but we now know much better and it’s important that we update our practices to follow that knowledge. It’s not necessarily that they were tougher it’s that we didn’t know any different - the way we did things in the past wasnt right for them then but we didn’t know that and instead worked with what we had and what we knew at the time. Yes they can survive in small hutches; but survive and thrive are different things. I feel terrible when I look back at how my childhood small animals were kept when compared to the lives they are given now.
They are not considered to be easy low maintenance pets. They can be hard work and expensive!

I’m surprised the vet didn’t tell you the importance of syringe feeding (we don’t call it force feeding as there should be no forcing involved) when they aren’t eating (enough) hay for themselves. It’s good he has gut sounds but not wanting to eat and not moving are sure signs something isn’t right.
Syringe feeding is an important step as soon as you notice a reduction in appetite (or weight loss at the routine checks). If a piggy does not keep fibre constantly going through their gut, then the gut slows down or can stop and then it can be a hard battle - stasis can be fatal.

Remember also that poop output is 1-2 days behind food intake so pooping yesterday didn’t mean he was eating enough yesterday. The poops produced yesterday were from food he ate on Saturday/Sunday. This is why poop output isn’t a reliable gauge of food intake - by the time you see a reduction in poop size and output they actually haven’t eaten properly for a couple of days.

At least 60ml is needed per day (although the daily weight checks are the guide as to how much is needed) when they have stopped eating (enough) hay. (A healthy piggy would eat the equivalent of 100-120ml per day).

With any luck this is a case of mild bloating caused by too much fresh food unbalancing the microbiome and he will be fine with a few days of extra fibre and few days without veg and grass.
 
That’s great news.
Make sure to weigh him this morning and again for the next few mornings so you can be sure he is maintaining meaning he is eating hay.
It’s good he had the appetite for pellets and hopefully that means he is still eating hay. Keep us posted
 
Piggies&buns said:
That’s great news.
Make sure to weigh him this morning and again for the next few mornings so you can be sure he is maintaining meaning he is eating hay.
It’s good he had the appetite for pellets and hopefully that means he is still eating hay. Keep us posted
Click to expand...
Hello,

So we went to the vet again this afternoon, as they decided they needed to see him again. He was given painkillers, weighed, and given something to keep his gut moving (it was moving, but apparently a bit slower). They also gave me a bag of 'Oxbow Herbivore Critical Care' powder to mix up and syringe-feed, and it's going in well enough. He's pooped since then, also drunk, and seems quite bright.
I have to say this Oxbow stuff looks revolting: GM soy bean hulls and oil, wheat, somethign called Timothy Grass Meal, flaxseed. Very little that looks wholesome. I have a raw-fed 12yo dog who has almost never been to the vet, and I have avoided commercial dog food all his life. We also as a family try to avoid ultra-processed food, and take a holistic approach to healthcare including nutrition and homeopathy, so I'd like to try to do the same for these piggies. I'll check the links now for, hopefully, a better Recovery food, but do please post suggestions?
 
AliceS said:
Hello,

So we went to the vet again this afternoon, as they decided they needed to see him again. He was given painkillers, weighed, and given something to keep his gut moving (it was moving, but apparently a bit slower). They also gave me a bag of 'Oxbow Herbivore Critical Care' powder to mix up and syringe-feed, and it's going in well enough. He's pooped since then, also drunk, and seems quite bright.
I have to say this Oxbow stuff looks revolting: GM soy bean hulls and oil, wheat, somethign called Timothy Grass Meal, flaxseed. Very little that looks wholesome. I have a raw-fed 12yo dog who has almost never been to the vet, and I have avoided commercial dog food all his life. We also as a family try to avoid ultra-processed food, and take a holistic approach to healthcare including nutrition and homeopathy, so I'd like to try to do the same for these piggies. I'll check the links now for, hopefully, a better Recovery food, but do please post suggestions?
Click to expand...
Have now looked up Timothy Grass meal - ok, that seems ok, but I remain a bit suspicious of food supplied by vets...!
 
Oxbow Critical Care is a very good recovery food for syringe feeding.
It’s the one my piggies have liked best, especially the aniseed flavoured one.
I also added a small piece of banana mashed into the feed which went down very well.

A guinea pig’s normal diet should be natural anyway as it’s primarily hay and veggies.
Treat stuff like pellets, pea flakes, forage can be good.
Have you come across Piggies Parcels at all ?
It’s run by forum member @Guineautopia and all her stuff is natural
 
Emeraid or oxbow critical care are amongst the most commonly used recovery feeds. They have a higher fibre content than mushed commercial pellets. Until he is eating enough hay for himself and is over the issue, it is essential that you give it to him.
The slowing of his gut is concerning. The meds should help but he needs at least 60ml of the recovery feed per day.

A piggy diet absolutely is a natural one - hay and grass with some supplementary veg.
You don’t need to feed commercial pellets (I dont feed mine pellets), Piggie parcels is a great option for pellets but while he is unwell he needs a recovery feed.

Probiotics & Live Gut Microbiome Transfer ('Poo Soup'); Recovery Formula Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links and Transfer Recipe
 
Good morning - today Michael is pooping and eating the Oxbow mush, and also mushed up pellets and some not mushed up. I've not yet seen him eat hay. As he still seems bright, I'd like to continue to monitor and syringe/hand feed today, and see how he goes over the next 24h. Is this ok, or should I be taking him to the vet today - and if I did, what would the vet do anyway? (The vet is refusing to give me any info to help me make this decision without a consultation, so we've just had a circular conversation!)
 
I’m glad he seems bright.

What has his weight check this morning shown you when compared to yesterday’s weight? That is important information to help you gauge what you should do.

Assuming his weight is stable, then continuing to monitor should be fine but it depends on if you have meds for him. We do advise you to go to the vet if you are at all concerned.
If he is dropping weight still, then increase the feeding

Did the vet give you any medication (painkillers and gut stimulants) to give him yourself at home?
That will also be a big part of the decision.
If you don’t have any meds to give him then you may see a downturn depending on how well he is on the road to recovery
 
Piggies&buns said:
I’m glad he seems bright.

What has his weight check this morning shown you when compared to yesterday’s weight? That is important information to help you gauge what you should do.

Assuming his weight is stable, then continuing to monitor should be fine but it depends on if you have meds for him. We do advise you to go to the vet if you are at all concerned.
If he is dropping weight still, then increase the feeding

Did the vet give you any medication (painkillers and gut stimulants) to give him yourself at home?
That will also be a big part of the decision.
If you don’t have any meds to give him then you may see a downturn depending on how well he is on the road to recovery
Click to expand...
Thanks so much, this is very helpful. No, they didn't give me any medication to administer. He only received painkiller and gut-mover in the surgery. His weight is stable. I'm currently not concerned, exactly - not 'emergency' concerned - though he's still not eating hay, but was interested in a little bit of grass and apple this morning as well as the mushed pellets and he's had a good dose of Oxbow....

If he continues to take the recovery food and his weight is stable and he's pooping then I'd like to continue to monitor for the next 24h, unless you would be going ot hte vet...?
 
If you are happy with him as he is and are comfortable with monitoring him then that’s fine.

Obviously do go back to the vet if he appears to be in any pain or slows down again - The meds he was given yesterday would have worn off by now.

If his upset I was caused by too much fresh food then he should not really be offered fruit, veg or grass during this time. He needs time for the gut to settle really before having any again.
 
Piggies&buns said:
If you are happy with him as he is and are comfortable with monitoring him then that’s fine.

Obviously do go back to the vet if he appears to be in any pain or slows down again - The meds he was given yesterday would have worn off by now.

If his upset I was caused by too much fresh food then he should not really be offered fruit, veg or grass during this time. He needs time for the gut to settle really before having any again.
Click to expand...
Thanks - we're going this afternoon so I can consult with the vet about the bigger/longer-term picture. One thing that I dont' understand: he's clearly hungry, but I am not sure he's interested in hay. Looking back, his poops have got darker and slightly damper/shinier than the early ones - presumably because the ratio of hay to fresh food in his diet has shifted. They still look healthy, I think - ie hard and well-formed. Are there other reasons why he might not be wanting to eat hay? I just have a normal bale from the farm where he came from, which is also used to feed donkeys/ponies/llamas - I'm sure you might now say to try different hay?
 
The only reason we would suggest to try different type of hay is that it might pique his interest, not because there is anything wrong with any normal meadow hay he has been having.
Mine only have meadow hay by the bale from a local farm but I do very occasionally buy a small bag of nature’s own 5 a day Timothy and throw a small handful in amongst their normal meadow hay.

Hay being their main food source is the thing they tend to go off first when they don’t feel well (hence the importance of syringe feeding). It may just be that he still feels off so isn’t yet back to normal appetite and it could just take time, and possibly more meds. It could be a good idea for you to ask for oral medications so you give them to him at home for a few days.

Dark poops do indeed suggest too much fresh food has been consumed.
Wiebke's Guide to Poops
 
Piggies&buns said:
The only reason we would suggest to try different type of hay is that it might pique his interest, not because there is anything wrong with any normal meadow hay he has been having.
Mine only have meadow hay by the bale from a local farm but I do very occasionally buy a small bag of nature’s own 5 a day Timothy and throw a small handful in amongst their normal meadow hay.

Hay being their main food source is the thing they tend to go off first when they don’t feel well (hence the importance of syringe feeding). It may just be that he still feels off so isn’t yet back to normal appetite and it could just take time, and possibly more meds. It could be a good idea for you to ask for oral medications so you give them to him at home for a few days.

Dark poops do indeed suggest too much fresh food has been consumed.
Wiebke's Guide to Poops
Click to expand...
Dark poops - having looked at that guide, they resemble the boar sausages in the photo. I am inclined to think that his pre ious diet may not have included enough fresh food - poops were browner and drier. If the photo in that link shows a desirable poop colour, then that's what we've got.
 
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