• Discussions taking place within this forum are intended for the purpose of assisting you in discussing options with your vet. Any other use of advice given here is done so at your risk, is solely your responsibility and not that of this forum or its owner. Before posting it is your responsibility you abide by this Statement

Not Eating After Bladder Stone Meds

Status
Not open for further replies.
Olivia Johnson

Olivia Johnson

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
Dec 16, 2016
Messages
21
Reaction score
13
Points
85
Location
Southern, Inland California
Hello everyone!

About a month ago, my guinea pig Caesar started peeing a pinking red color and squeaked while urinating. I took him to the vet and they found a pretty good sized bladder stone. She prescribed him some antibiotics and an anti-inflammatory.

Last week, she special ordered him Potassium citrate to be administered 0.25 mls twice a day. I wish I could tell you the exact dosage she gave, but the label is obstructed. This is what it says: Potassium citrate 80 mg Susp 30.

A day after taking the medication, Caesar, who is usually easy to give medicine to, refused to take it unless I made him, then he would run away into a hiding spot in his pen. Now he spends all of his time there. More concerning, he has lost weight. He isn't overweight (1.538 lbs), but as of now, he is underweight. I have also noticed that since he stays in his hiding spot, he hasn't been eating hay at all.

I'm really worried about him and I was wondering if anyone had advice or personal experience with pigs with bladder stone, or who have taken potassium citrate.
 
Both Beans and Toast are on Potassium Citrate 0.1ml twice daily, but I haven't noticed any changes or issues with them. Beans doesn't like it but she'll take it of I dip the syringe in Loxicom first.

Could it maybe be that more stones or crystals have formed and it's causing him discomfort?
 
Hi Olivia, welcome to the forum.

Sorry to hear Caesar has been poorly. Has he had an operation to remove the stone?
 
Could I ask your location please?
 
sport_billy said:
Could I ask your location please?
Click to expand...

For your first question, no he did not. The vet explained to me that an operation would cause him more problems, and that the potassium citrate could break apart the stone to pass easier. She told me the stone was small enough to pass, but it would be painful to do all at once. She suggested the potassium citrate to break the stone down a little so he would be passing more manageable stones, rather than one larger one

And for the second part, I'm located in southern California, around the Riverside area.
 
Beans&Toast said:
Both Beans and Toast are on Potassium Citrate 0.1ml twice daily, but I haven't noticed any changes or issues with them. Beans doesn't like it but she'll take it of I dip the syringe in Loxicom first.

Could it maybe be that more stones or crystals have formed and it's causing him discomfort?
Click to expand...

I will take him to the vet tomorrow and ask her with him there then, because she has him on over twice as much and I've made his diet extremely low calcium. He went from eating only the green leaf lettuce to refusing it altogether
 
Is he on any pain meds such as metacam? Pain will stop him from eating you see
 
sport_billy said:
Is he on any pain meds such as metacam? Pain will stop him form eating your see
Click to expand...

No, she didn't give me any pain meds for him. She didn't even mention it. I had ran out of the anti-inflammatory and for a while, he took that without issue. Now though, without it he won't take the pot. cit. Should I ask about pain meds for him. Or are there OTC options?
 
Olivia Johnson said:
No, she didn't give me any pain meds for him. She didn't even mention it. I had ran out of the anti-inflammatory and for a while, he took that without issue. Now though, without it he won't take the pot. cit. Should I ask about pain meds for him. Or are there OTC options?
Click to expand...

Yes, The anti inflammatory he was on was probably metacam - which is a piankiller and anti inflamtory combined . He should be on this without a shadow of a doubt. Pain relief and anti inflammatory is very important
 
sport_billy said:
Yes, The anti inflammatory he was on was probably metacam - which is a piankiller and anti inflamtory combined . He should be on this without a shadow of a doubt. Pain relief and anti inflammatory is very important
Click to expand...

I'll be sure to call the vet tomorrow then. She only gave me enough for the antibiotics

And I wish I had found that sooner. I went to an emergency vet office in Riverside CA. Small animal vets aren't very common in small towns, I learned
 
If one of those vets is local to you on the link I sent you they would be well worth contacting.. I am UK based so don't really know geograpghy stateside. Have a good look through the link I sent you
 
Olivia Johnson said:
I will take him to the vet tomorrow and ask her with him there then, because she has him on over twice as much and I've made his diet extremely low calcium. He went from eating only the green leaf lettuce to refusing it altogether
Click to expand...
Both mine are on 0.2 twice a day of Loxicom/Metacam as well as the Potassium Citrate, the Loxicom is essential for pain relief brought on by the stone/crystals and as an anti inflammatory for the bladder. I also syringe as much water as they'll take (as well as then drinking from their water bottle) throughout the day to try flush the crystals
 
sport_billy said:
If one of those vets is local to you on the link I sent you they would be well worth contacting.. I am UK based so don't really know geograpghy stateside. Have a good look through the link I sent you
Click to expand...

I don't blame you. The US is a geographic mess and California is huge. I'll check it out though Thank you so much!

IMG_20161216_034543.webp
 
Beans&Toast said:
Both mine are on 0.2 twice a day of Loxicom/Metacam as well as the Potassium Citrate, the Loxicom is essential for pain relief brought on by the stone/crystals and as an anti inflammatory for the bladder. I also syringe as much water as they'll take (as well as then drinking from their water bottle) throughout the day to try flush the crystals
Click to expand...

I'll definitely try the water thing and I'll call the vet about getting more painkillers for him
 
Awww bless little Caesar he is stunning, please let me know how you get on
 
Not got much to add except to reiterate that the anti-inflammatory is needed, he will be in pain with a stone. Did the vet suggest extra fluids too?
 
He may be uncomfortable and not eating due to pain. A lot of guinea pigs do not cope well with discomfort at all and will waste away if they are uncomfortable. A painkiller may help.

The usual course of treatment for bladder stones is surgical removal, but I do have one pig who has lived with a bladder stone for years. She is on a prophylactic antibiotic to suppress bacterial growth, as the stone makes her prone to UTIs. At various times she has been on and off painkillers. I'm in Canada where the surgery is not as much performed and hence is higher risk and really, REALLY expensive. We decided at the time of her diagnosis that we would attempt to manage her symptoms and if we could not give her a decent quality of life, we would have to have her put to sleep. Fortunately, she has done really well on long-term suppressive antibiotics and is now 6.5 years old. However, she may be a special case, as she is tough as nails for a guinea pig... she has lived with the bladder stone for years and also had a severe dental abscess that was probably very painful, but she has never stopped her usual routine or stopped eating. By contrast, her cage-mate tweaked her foot a couple of weeks ago and spent two days laying there with her foot tucked up looking sorry for herself... so it may be a matter of individual pain tolerance. In a pig that doesn't just keep on eating no matter how sick, surgery might be the only real good option.
 
The difference in sexes make a difference in the case of bladder stones too Freela.

If one was to get stuck on the way out then it's easier for a vet to remove from a female. It is pretty much impossible to remove from a certain part of a males urinary tract (I can't remember exactly as it was years ago that I was told which part).

So, surgery is a more obvious method for males.

My boar has had 2 bladder stone surgeries and he's okay.

I was led to believe the Potassium Citrate doesn't break up stones (it never worked like that for my boar) it's supposed to less the chance of them forming, possibly? My vet mentioned that the dose would have to be enormous though for it to have any noticeable effect though, which isn't recommended.
 
Hi and welcome

It is not at all rare that a guinea pig stops eating after an operation. This is due to a reaction to the GA, pain and antibiotics kicking in (which in themselves are appetite killers). It is absolutely vital that you start syringe feeding and watering asap. A bladder stone operation in a boar is often more complicated and takes longer depending on where the stone is located. Boars have a longer urethra with an awkward inglenook where stones can get stuck. The longer an operation takes, the likelier the risk of a bad reaction to GA. Please contact your vet asap if your boy is deteriorating or not picking up after an operation.
Please take the time to read our detailed step-by-styep post-op care and syringe feeding guides. You will find them very helpful, as keeping the guts going is absolutely essential in keeping a guinea pig alive. It is always a very worrying and physically and emotionally draining time when you have to look after a very ill piggy round the clock, but it can make all the difference.
Tips For Post-operative Care
Ringworm: Hygiene And Pictures

Care for bladder stone guinea pigs:
While there are many - still unresearched - factors and process involved with calcium absorption and the formation of bladder stones, there are some aspects that you can manage.
- The main one is diet; however, it is not quite as simple as cutting out all calcium to the detriment of other minerals and vitamins. It is finding the right long term balance that is important. @helen105281 can advise you on a nutrionally balanced sustainable veg and herb diet and - once we know which country you are from - for available low calcium and ideally grain-free pellet brands.
- Please filter your water, irrespective of whether you are from a hard or soft water area. Minerals in the water also contribute to the formation of stones. Filtering can make a real difference for bladder stone piggies.
You can't force a guinea pig to drink, but you can help your boy to flush the bladder a bit more strongly by offering him as much water by syringe as he is willing to take in one go. Please never give more than a mouthful (ca. 0.3 - 0.5 ml) at a time and wait until it has gone down. Do not force more water down him than he wants.
- Potassium citrate is given to some bladder stone piggies by some vets. How much of difference it really makes is not yet researched.
- You can support the natural glucosamine coat of the scratched and usually inflamed ballder walls by giving either vegan glucosamine or a cat food supplement like cystease/cystophan. This is not a medication as such, but I would recommend to speak about it to your vet.

Since we have members and enquiries from all over the world, we find it extremely helpful if you please added your country, state/province or UK county to your details, so they appear below your username in every post and allow us to tailor any advice and recommendations straight away for what is available and doable where you are. Click on your username on the top bar, then go to personal details and scroll down to location. Thank you!
 
Potassium Citrate does not break down bladder stones, if anything it binds the calcium so it passes more readily from the body, so if there was no stone but only bladder sludge then it is appropriate to be prescribed, however if there is an actual stone then I would think it should not be given until after stone removal. Bladder stones are much more readily removed than if it passes down the urethra (The tube taking urine from the bladder to the outside of the body) which can cause a blockage & would need emergency surgery. If your vet has taken x rays/ultrasound & measured the stone in that she is sure it is so small it will pass down the urethra unaided then you will need to be very vigilant & if your boy stops urinating at any point he will need emergency surgery to remove the stone. Passing a stone is extremely painful so he should be on a good dose of pain relief, please ask your vet for some & monitor his weight/eating/peeing etc carefully.
 
Last edited:
Wiebke said:
Hi and welcome

It is not at all rare that a guinea pig stops eating after an operation. This is due to a reaction to the GA, pain and antibiotics kicking in (which in themselves are appetite killers). It is absolutely vital that you start syringe feeding and watering asap. A bladder stone operation in a boar is often more complicated and takes longer depending on where the stone is located. Boars have a longer urethra with an awkward inglenook where stones can get stuck. The longer an operation takes, the likelier the risk of a bad reaction to GA. Please contact your vet asap if your boy is deteriorating or not picking up after an operation.
Please take the time to read our detailed step-by-styep post-op care and syringe feeding guides. You will find them very helpful, as keeping the guts going is absolutely essential in keeping a guinea pig alive. It is always a very worrying and physically and emotionally draining time when you have to look after a very ill piggy round the clock, but it can make all the difference.
Tips For Post-operative Care
Ringworm: Hygiene And Pictures

Care for bladder stone guinea pigs:
While there are many - still unresearched - factors and process involved with calcium absorption and the formation of bladder stones, there are some aspects that you can manage.
- The main one is diet; however, it is not quite as simple as cutting out all calcium to the detriment of other minerals and vitamins. It is finding the right long term balance that is important. @helen105281 can advise you on a nutrionally balanced sustainable veg and herb diet and - once we know which country you are from - for available low calcium and ideally grain-free pellet brands.
- Please filter your water, irrespective of whether you are from a hard or soft water area. Minerals in the water also contribute to the formation of stones. Filtering can make a real difference for bladder stone piggies.
You can't force a guinea pig to drink, but you can help your boy to flush the bladder a bit more strongly by offering him as much water by syringe as he is willing to take in one go. Please never give more than a mouthful (ca. 0.3 - 0.5 ml) at a time and wait until it has gone down. Do not force more water down him than he wants.
- Potassium citrate is given to some bladder stone piggies by some vets. How much of difference it really makes is not yet researched.
- You can support the natural glucosamine coat of the scratched and usually inflamed ballder walls by giving either vegan glucosamine or a cat food supplement like cystease/cystophan. This is not a medication as such, but I would recommend to speak about it to your vet.

Since we have members and enquiries from all over the world, we find it extremely helpful if you please added your country, state/province or UK county to your details, so they appear below your username in every post and allow us to tailor any advice and recommendations straight away for what is available and doable where you are. Click on your username on the top bar, then go to personal details and scroll down to location. Thank you!
Click to expand...

May you please link me to the syringe feeding post? I'm very worried about his lack of eating
 
Freela said:
He may be uncomfortable and not eating due to pain. A lot of guinea pigs do not cope well with discomfort at all and will waste away if they are uncomfortable. A painkiller may help.

The usual course of treatment for bladder stones is surgical removal, but I do have one pig who has lived with a bladder stone for years. She is on a prophylactic antibiotic to suppress bacterial growth, as the stone makes her prone to UTIs. At various times she has been on and off painkillers. I'm in Canada where the surgery is not as much performed and hence is higher risk and really, REALLY expensive. We decided at the time of her diagnosis that we would attempt to manage her symptoms and if we could not give her a decent quality of life, we would have to have her put to sleep. Fortunately, she has done really well on long-term suppressive antibiotics and is now 6.5 years old. However, she may be a special case, as she is tough as nails for a guinea pig... she has lived with the bladder stone for years and also had a severe dental abscess that was probably very painful, but she has never stopped her usual routine or stopped eating. By contrast, her cage-mate tweaked her foot a couple of weeks ago and spent two days laying there with her foot tucked up looking sorry for herself... so it may be a matter of individual pain tolerance. In a pig that doesn't just keep on eating no matter how sick, surgery might be the only real good option.
Click to expand...

I'll have to ask my vet. She didn't seem like surgery was something that would be good for him.
 
Jaycey said:
The difference in sexes make a difference in the case of bladder stones too Freela.

If one was to get stuck on the way out then it's easier for a vet to remove from a female. It is pretty much impossible to remove from a certain part of a males urinary tract (I can't remember exactly as it was years ago that I was told which part).

So, surgery is a more obvious method for males.

My boar has had 2 bladder stone surgeries and he's okay.

I was led to believe the Potassium Citrate doesn't break up stones (it never worked like that for my boar) it's supposed to less the chance of them forming, possibly? My vet mentioned that the dose would have to be enormous though for it to have any noticeable effect though, which isn't recommended.
Click to expand...

That concerns me because she seemed very sure it would break down the stones to smaller sizes
 
Poppy'sMum said:
Potassium Citrate does not break down bladder stones, if anything it binds the calcium so it passes more readily from the body, so if there was no stone but only bladder sludge then it is appropriate to be prescribed, however if there is an actual stone then I would think it should not be given until after stone removal. Bladder stones are much more readily removed than if it passes down the urethra (The tube taking urine from the bladder to the outside of the body) which can cause a blockage & would need emergency surgery. If your vet has taken x rays/ultrasound & measured the stone in that she is sure it is so small it will pass down the urethra unaided then you will need to be very vigilant & if your boy stops urinating at any point he will need emergency surgery to remove the stone. Passing a stone is extremely painful so he should be on a good dose of pain relief, please ask your vet for some & monitor his weight/eating/peeing etc carefully.
Click to expand...

I'll be sure to ask her about monitoring him
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top