Mystery illness? Please help?

[Vix1]

Hi all thank you for taking the time to read this, I have been to vet today but nobody has a clue and after 30 years of keeping guinea pigs this is the first time i have ever been stumped.
Gertrude is 2 years old perfectly happy healthy indoor female pig who lives indoors with 3 other girls, they have a room 4 metres x 6 metres, bedding is vet bed and zorb/ soft fleeces. Loads of space, places to hide, eat drink etc everyone is happy.
Suddenly 2 days ago Gertrude was hunched like she was in pain and didn't leave her hide all evening, the following morning she was still quiet. I gave her some pain relief and she perked up and seemed to eat her favourite foods and hay and drank but by the next morning she looked in pain again, i originally thought maybe she was constipated as her poo was a little misshapen the day before and i hadn't seen her do one, then a large poo later she was weeing and pooing normal.
Next day she was so quiet all day and all she would eat is a very small amount of her timothy hay, i was worried for gi stasis so started giving her oxbow crital care and giving her water with a syringe which she happily drank, then she started to stumble to one side when she walked almost like she was drunk, her ears and eyes look fine and she has not showed signs of them being irritated, but then this morning her eyes were quite watery. Took her into the vets they checked her eyes ears and teeth and they said there was no sign of infection, (although he said he couldn't see back teeth without sedating her, hmm), they said no sign of chest infection and her heart sounds good. They listened to her gut and said its sounding fine. Her eyes had dried up a bit so didn't look weepy. They sent us off with baytril to fight an infection if she has one and meloxidyl for pain relief. (No probiotic though, this was a first)? They said if she is still not right in a week they would put her under anesthetic and take bloods and xray her. Obviously this will be a last resort and i am really hoping this mystery illness goes as quick as it appeared. She is still munching on timothy hay today but Its just the stumbling over thats puzzled me, she has no signs of injury anywhere and they all live on the floor so absolutely no chance of any falls etc. She is just very lethargic, eating just hay, not interested in any nice veggies and not moving around much and when she does she sometimes stumbles to one side? Has anyone else had anything similar, we seemed to have ruled out everything we can think of? I was hoping maybe someone else has experienced similar and i could look out for any other symptoms while we try the antibiotics and pain relief? I have given the pain relief straight away but will start antibiotics shortly, i have just never been given them without a prebiotic for their gut and i am worried i am just going to make her worse, i tried to question the vet but he was convinced i didn't need it. (The usual 'exotic' vet is not in until 4 days time and i was not prepared to wait that long, and the only other exotic vet in Lincolnshire are not taking anymore patients, she had to travel an hour to get to this one. Please does anyone have any thoughts or ideas? Thank you.

 

[Siikibam]

I'm sorry to hear your girl is unwell. Antibiotics can be tough on the tummy so I would give a probiotic.

You will have to switch to weighing her once daily and topping up with syringe feed. You’re aiming to help her maintain her weight. If she is losing weight then you need to up the amount you’re giving her. Aim for 40-60ml in a 24 hour period.

Hopefully the antibiotics will fight off whatever is going on and she gets better soon. I did see your thread asking about another vet. I think the ones known about are those on the recommended list. Perhaps you could have a ring around and see if you can find another who’s experienced. Or hopefully someone will be able to recommend another vet to you.

 

[Bill & Ted]

I am so sorry your little lady is poorly. I cannot offer any advice other than what is given above, but just wanted to wish her well x

 

[Wheekallweek]

Aw poor piggy. Hope the antibiotics and pain relief work for her and she's feeling better soon

 

[Swissgreys]

Antibiotics and pain relief are always a good place ot start.
If she seems unsteady it could be a neurological issue which can be hard to treat, but also something simpler like an ear infection.

If the current treatment doesn't help I would think about x-rays to rule out stones or other bladder issues and a full dental exam to rule out face, neck or jaw lumps which could be making her uncomfortable and hindering her ability to eat or affecting her balance.

 

[Vix1]

I'm sorry to hear your girl is unwell. Antibiotics can be tough on the tummy so I would give a probiotic.

You will have to switch to weighing her once daily and topping up with syringe feed. You’re aiming to help her maintain her weight. If she is losing weight then you need to up the amount you’re giving her. Aim for 40-60ml in a 24 hour period.

Hopefully the antibiotics will fight off whatever is going on and she gets better soon. I did see your thread asking about another vet. I think the ones known about are those on the recommended list. Perhaps you could have a ring around and see if you can find another who’s experienced. Or hopefully someone will be able to recommend another vet to you.

Thank you very much for your help. The vet refused to give me a probiotic do you know if there are probiotics i can buy or do i need a prescription for them? x

 

[piggieminder]

If you have a Pets at Home near you can get Pro C there. On line places like Viovet or VetUk sell probiotics like Bio Lapis or Fibreplex. Viovet do their own version of Fibreplex called ReguTum which I have used to good effect. It is sometimes cheaper than Fibreplex if it's on special offer.
I hope your piggy gets well soon.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you very much for your help. The vet refused to give me a probiotic do you know if there are probiotics i can buy or do i need a prescription for them? x

Probiotics do not need a prescription. You can buy them from Amazon or pet shops.
Fibreplex, bio lapis or a pro c are the most commonly used ones.
I hope she feels better soon

 

[Vix1]

I am so sorry your little lady is poorly. I cannot offer any advice other than what is given above, but just wanted to wish her well

If you have a Pets at Home near you can get Pro C there. On line places like Viovet or VetUk sell probiotics like Bio Lapis or Fibreplex. Viovet do their own version of Fibreplex called ReguTum which I have used to good effect. It is sometimes cheaper than Fibreplex if it's on special offer.
I hope your piggy gets well soon.

Thank you very much indeed thats so helpful i will get some ordered right away.

 

[Claire W]

I am very sorry that your piggy is poorly I hope the antibiotics and pain relief kick in and that she is feeling better soon x

 

[Merab]

Just offering support

 

[Free Ranger]

Actually we don't routinely give probiotics with short courses of Baytril. I generally have something in just in case (the little bio lapis sachets can last a while unopened). I only start using probiotic if we get long courses or high doses or piggy starts struggling with appetite.

The wobbling around is unusual. It could be a neurological symptom but this sort of thing is very hard to put your finger on. Does she have a head tilt? When she staggers is it always to one side? And is there anything one-sided about her face - perhaps one of her eyes doesn't blink when the other does? Is she staggering because one or more of her legs isn't responding properly? Guinea pigs can have strokes, but I don't know if this would cause gut symptoms specifically, or whether this is more of a transient digestive upset caused by whatever has happened to her. I'm linking in the forum pages on neuro issues - please bear in mind that some of this can seem a bit gloomy and that it might be completely irrelevant to your situation in the end - she might just have an ear infection that's causing vertigo that will be cleared up in a few days. But just in case but there may be clues in here that ring bells when you consider what's going on. CBS (Calcified Bulla Syndrome) and Neurological Problems - Symptoms and Care

The x-ray may be able to give you some clues in terms of the CBS that is mentioned in these pages although she doesn't seem to have any of the other symptoms and she's pretty young. The E. cuniculi described is usually linked back to contact with infected rabbits. Here's another link to Guinea Pig magazine which also talks about head tilts and similar symptoms in piggies, what vets consider and how they test for it. Head Tilts in Guinea Pigs - Guinea Pig Magazine

Good luck, and keep us updated. We'll be thinking about you x

 

[Vix1]

Actually we don't routinely give probiotics with short courses of Baytril. I generally have something in just in case (the little bio lapis sachets can last a while unopened). I only start using probiotic if we get long courses or high doses or piggy starts struggling with appetite.

The wobbling around is unusual. It could be a neurological symptom but this sort of thing is very hard to put your finger on. Does she have a head tilt? When she staggers is it always to one side? And is there anything one-sided about her face - perhaps one of her eyes doesn't blink when the other does? Is she staggering because one or more of her legs isn't responding properly? Guinea pigs can have strokes, but I don't know if this would cause gut symptoms specifically, or whether this is more of a transient digestive upset caused by whatever has happened to her. I'm linking in the forum pages on neuro issues - please bear in mind that some of this can seem a bit gloomy and that it might be completely irrelevant to your situation in the end - she might just have an ear infection that's causing vertigo that will be cleared up in a few days. But just in case but there may be clues in here that ring bells when you consider what's going on. CBS (Calcified Bulla Syndrome) and Neurological Problems - Symptoms and Care

The x-ray may be able to give you some clues in terms of the CBS that is mentioned in these pages although she doesn't seem to have any of the other symptoms and she's pretty young. The E. cuniculi described is usually linked back to contact with infected rabbits. Here's another link to Guinea Pig magazine which also talks about head tilts and similar symptoms in piggies, what vets consider and how they test for it. Head Tilts in Guinea Pigs - Guinea Pig Magazine

Good luck, and keep us updated. We'll be thinking about you x

Thank you very much for the information. I did read the information earier on the cbs thinking a few bits sounded similar i am keeping a very close eye on her. I have always thought she could be deaf as she has never come running out to the sound of anything like the others but when she see's you she will come running over. Her wobblyness seems random i have not noticed a particular side, she sort of looks about as if she can't see properly and yes she does tilt her head but it seems to be tilting randomly on different sides. She just seems vacant. She has eaten up a good amount of grass tonight and hay and is still pooing and weeing well. I will update when hopefully she bounces back x

 

[Free Ranger]

If the antibiotic is going to work for her you should see a result within a day or two of starting the course. We've typically been given baytril for between 5-7 days (sometimes 10). If you don't see any improvement after 72 hours the chances are that your problem is not going to be solved by this particular AB (either you need a different one because the bug is totally or partially resistant, or your problem is not bacterial infection) - still complete your course (always complete the course!) but prepare that she might have to be put under for further tests. You might also want to contact the vet and give them a heads-up about this so they know in advance of your next appointment (in a week?) what to expect. My vet can x-ray by swaddling piggy tightly while conscious but blood need a GA. They might use a 'whiff of gas' - my vet says this isoflurane gas is the safest way she uses for piggies. You can ask how they plan to do it and what to expect.

Hang in there Gertrude x

 

[Vix1]

Hi all, update on Gertrude, she had week of baytril and pain relief, and pro-c. At the end of the week she seemed back to her old self. She remained well for the next week and is still eating weeing and pooing well but then for the last couple of days she seems wobbly again, she doesn't seem to be hunched in pain but her coat was fluffed up, i put a heat pad in her bed and separated her in the day time from the others who kept knocking her over, shes loved the warmth and is spralled out relaxing, no issues with food but when she walks she is wobbly and toppling over as if she is trying to get her balance. I checked in her ears and there was a big rock hard piece of wax sticking out which i was able to remove very carefully with tweezers. It makes me think maybe she does have an ear infection that maybe 1 week of the baytril was not enough, but then would she have got better for 1 week? If it could possibly be an inner ear infection would you recommend a different oral antibiotic? Should drops be given also or is this more harm than good? I have more baytril still and pain relief to do the same treatment again but would she be better trying a different drug? If so i will go to my normal vet and ask for something else? Pic attached of her little wax rock

 

[Claire W]

I would express your concerns about her having an ear infection to your vet and show them the picture of the wax. My late Ellen was wobbly on her feet and the vet suspected an ear infection as her ear was a little dirty inside. She also had a uti at the same time so was prescribed sulfatrim for that and it also cured the ear infection and Ellen was right again 2-3 weeks later. I wouldn’t go putting any drops in her ears without a vets recommendation

 

[Merab]

Hope you can find a good solution for Gertrude.
Holding you in my thoughts

 

[Vix1]

I would express your concerns about her having an ear infection to your vet and show them the picture of the wax. My late Ellen was wobbly on her feet and the vet suspected an ear infection as her ear was a little dirty inside. She also had a uti at the same time so was prescribed sulfatrim for that and it also cured the ear infection and Ellen was right again 2-3 weeks later. I wouldn’t go putting any drops in her ears without a vets recommendation

Thank you for the information, please don't misunderstand i would never put drops in her ears without a vet prescribing them i was just asking if anyone had a similar issue that they could recommend the treatment they used that i could ask the vet for. He is a fantastic caring vet but he is very much farm and dog/cat vet. There is only 1 exotic vet left in Lincolnshire and they are awful so any information i can go armed with gives her a much better chance.

 

[Claire W]

I would see if a different antibiotic would do the trick

 

[Free Ranger]

My vet uses Baytril first and then Septrin which I think is a blend of antibiotics. And actually we've had our ABs like this for every infection we've had. Some vets choose one AB for UTIs and another for URIs etc. There are others available too, but we've never had a genuine infection that has failed to respond to both. However, when George got his last UTI he was prescribed a high dose of Baytril for 5 days. He improved a little, but wasn't cured. When the AB was stopped he deteriorated again over the next few days. That made me think that yes, it was an infection, but that it was partially resistant to Baytil. This can happen - it's not unusual really. Even partially resistant bugs can sometimes be finished off eventually but it's often better to try a second AB for a cleaner result as ABs are not without their side effects for our pigs.

If your girl has CBS then antibiotics struggle to reach the 'walled-in' infection. It's a bit like when some piggies get a gum abscess and the bacteria are sealed into the capsule and even effective antibiotics struggle to take effect. It can happen. But I hope it's just a stubborn ear infection x

 

[Vix1]

My vet uses Baytril first and then Septrin which I think is a blend of antibiotics. And actually we've had our ABs like this for every infection we've had. Some vets choose one AB for UTIs and another for URIs etc. There are others available too, but we've never had a genuine infection that has failed to respond to both. However, when George got his last UTI he was prescribed a high dose of Baytril for 5 days. He improved a little, but wasn't cured. When the AB was stopped he deteriorated again over the next few days. That made me think that yes, it was an infection, but that it was partially resistant to Baytil. This can happen - it's not unusual really. Even partially resistant bugs can sometimes be finished off eventually but it's often better to try a second AB for a cleaner result as ABs are not without their side effects for our pigs.

If your girl has CBS then antibiotics struggle to reach the 'walled-in' infection. It's a bit like when some piggies get a gum abscess and the bacteria are sealed into the capsule and even effective antibiotics struggle to take effect. It can happen. But I hope it's just a stubborn ear infection x

Thank you for this information, i think i will ask for a course of the septrin to see if this helps instead of trying baytril again. I do really hope its a stubborn ear infection, i be heart broken if she has cbs xx

 

[Free Ranger]

Some piggies have low levels of AB for the rest of their lives in order to cope with certain conditions. Some people do too. But the ideal is a short course that does the job x

 

[Vix1]

Hi all, opinions greatly received please before i start new meds.
Good news(ish) is that she has ear infection, that hard rock of wax i removed yesterday opened the ear to yellow pus running out so we went to vets today to try and get the correct meds. My vet is wonderful and kind and spent over 30mins going through options (he really doesn't think any amount of meds will fix an ear infection, but i know they can recover) took him the meds she had last time and he said it was the wrong dose of baytril, too much and too much pain relief. (0.35mls x 2 a day of meloxidyl 1.5mg/ml, and 0.42mls of Baytril 2.5) she weighs 1.06kg.
I mentioned the septrin and he has given me what he said is the equivalent but he was really struggling to work out the dosage so please let me know if anyone can see something dangerous.
So he has given me to use for 10 days...
Co-trimoxazole 80mg/100mg antibiotic to administer 0.5ml once a day.
Loxicom pain relief 1.5mg/ml 0.1mg once a day.
And also Baytril to use as ear drops with a syringe 3-4 times a day for 3-5days and to try and tip her head to the side a couple of times a day to try and help drain the ear.
He thinks that because its yellow pus running out of her ear that the ear drum will be damaged and it will be a middle ear infection. His thoughts are to try and antibiotic her from the inside and try fight the infection with a different antibiotic by dropping it from the outside. Anyone else tried that approach and does the dosage seem correct with the co-trimoxazole 80mg/400mg? All the meds were taken from bottles and decanted into meds bottles so i don't have any leaflets just the internet and you fine people to double check. All thoughts greatly received thank you.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Pain meds are dosed on a scale depending on clinical need, only a vet can tell you the dosage you need to give, but what I can say is that pain meds should really be prescribed twice a day. Piggies metabolise their meds in around 12 hours so once a day isn’t enough. As I say, the dosage is given according to clinical need and there is some room for manoeuvre. However, we see piggies of a similar weight to your piggy being given bigger doses than yours has currently been prescribed (more along the lines of the dosage you were previously prescribed twice a day), so if it doesn’t appear to help with her pain, then do consult your vet again.

 

[Vix1]

Pain meds are dosed on a scale depending on clinical need, only a vet can tell you the dosage you need to give, but what I can say is that pain meds should really be prescribed twice a day. Piggies metabolise their meds in around 12 hours so once a day isn’t enough. As I say, the dosage is given according to clinical need and there is some room for manoeuvre. However, we see piggies of a similar weight to your piggy being given bigger doses than yours has currently been prescribed (more along the lines of the dosage you were previously prescribed twice a day), so if it doesn’t appear to help with her pain, then do consult your vet again.

Thank you for your help

 

[Bertie & Jelly]

My piggie was diagnosed with a chronic middle ear infection which was only discovered after a CT scan which I appreciate is not an option for everyone. He had no wax or pus unlike your piggie so quite different symptoms. He had Eradia and Marbocyl and within days was much perkier so I am curious when you say your vet said no amount of meds would fix an ear infection. That said we knew the extent and location of the infection from the scan so the meds were specifically targeted. I hope your piggie is on the mend soon x

 

[Vix1]

My piggie was diagnosed with a chronic middle ear infection which was only discovered after a CT scan which I appreciate is not an option for everyone. He had no wax or pus unlike your piggie so quite different symptoms. He had Eradia and Marbocyl and within days was much perkier so I am curious when you say your vet said no amount of meds would fix an ear infection. That said we knew the extent and location of the infection from the scan so the meds were specifically targeted. I hope your piggie is on the mend soon x

Thank you, yes i know many have recovered, he always tries to brace you i think for the worst but i will fight and try every med going to make her well again x

 

[Free Ranger]

George had co-trimoxazole (80mg/400mg per 5 ml... it's a mix of two antibiotics) and had 0.2ml twice a day. It cured his infection but killed his appetite (but he's still UTI free despite his big stone!). My sow had 'Septrin' which I think is just the brand name for the same thing as it's the same conc on the bottle - she was lighter at about a kilo but she had 0.3ml twice a day for 6 weeks in total and her appetite remained completely unaffected - in fact she ate more because she could pee without pain! Meds are often worked out as 'mgs per kg of pig' and there is generally an active range of doses.

George is on 5 units of dog metacam which is about the same as what you were on first time and he has it morning and evening and has done for over 2 years. Arthritis - and now the big stone. Other pigs have gone higher in the short-term to cope with passing a stone or a painful UTI etc. There is now an issue with the 0.5mg/ml being licensed and the 1.5 not, but I signed a waiver for George. We've had no problems in the past apart from one time when we gave too much and my poor girl looked really rough in the morning but was completely back to normal by the afternoon - because they burn through it so fast.

Ear drops of Baytril I don't know but I think you've done her a favour by unclogging that ear whether by accident or design!

A vet who spoke to one of our American members told her that her pig's urinary symptoms must be stones and couldn't be UTI as 'pigs don't get them'. I was this far away from passing on my number - over 10 years I must have 'imagined' a few I can tell you!

 

[Vix1]

George had co-trimoxazole (80mg/400mg per 5 ml... it's a mix of two antibiotics) and had 0.2ml twice a day. It cured his infection but killed his appetite (but he's still UTI free despite his big stone!). My sow had 'Septrin' which I think is just the brand name for the same thing as it's the same conc on the bottle - she was lighter at about a kilo but she had 0.3ml twice a day for 6 weeks in total and her appetite remained completely unaffected - in fact she ate more because she could pee without pain! Meds are often worked out as 'mgs per kg of pig' and there is generally an active range of doses.

George is on 5 units of dog metacam which is about the same as what you were on first time and he has it morning and evening and has done for over 2 years. Arthritis - and now the big stone. Other pigs have gone higher in the short-term to cope with passing a stone or a painful UTI etc. There is now an issue with the 0.5mg/ml being licensed and the 1.5 not, but I signed a waiver for George. We've had no problems in the past apart from one time when we gave too much and my poor girl looked really rough in the morning but was completely back to normal by the afternoon - because they burn through it so fast.

Ear drops of Baytril I don't know but I think you've done her a favour by unclogging that ear whether by accident or design!

A vet who spoke to one of our American members told her that her pig's urinary symptoms must be stones and couldn't be UTI as 'pigs don't get them'. I was this far away from passing on my number - over 10 years I must have 'imagined' a few I can tell you!

Thank you for this information, I'm hoping she doesn't loose her appetite, fingers crossed for the next few days xx

 

[Vix1]

Hi all update on gertrude, her ear infection finally cleared up but then a large hard lump started growing on the top of her head next to her ear and it was not like any lump and of my pigs ever had, it felt like her skull was getting bigger, we feared with all the balance issues she had maybe she did have neurological issues after all, then one morning i found her covered in yellow pus. It was an absess. It drained all day and was pouring out for a good 24 hours, it got flushed 3 times a day everyday with saltwater and diluted hibiscrub. She has been on pain relief and has had co-trimoxazole antibiotics and baytril antibiotics. She is completely herself again and it does not seem to bother her but everytime we think its all cleared up and healed and she can come off pain relief it gets a tiny hole a seeps out pus again. This has been going on for weeks, yesterday it opened up a little bit yet again so we have an appointment with the vet again. Can anyone advise the best antibiotic for an abscess? Or any other recommendations to try and fight it once and for all. I want to try everything i can before considering any surgery. She is kept immaculately and there are zero chances of flys or bugs getting near her, she is kept indoors with bug screens over doors and windows. Picture of her abscess hole two days after it stopped leaking pus. And also one a while after it was healing.