Malocclusion

Shadowsmum

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My guinea pig has malocclusion as it’s very unwell, sometimes he will eat very well and others he won’t I’m worried he isn’t gaining the weight he’s meant to. He’s on pain meds and antibiotics but he keeps getting trapped poo of which I’m helping him get out as best I can and he has this smell that’s like cheese is that normal? We have to wait until he finishes the antibiotics to see the vet again but I’m worried he isn’t getting better. They want him to put on weight as he’s lost quite a bit what else could I do? I’m doing the critical care food, blended fruit and veg and porridge oats, is there anything else I could try? He had his procedure to file his teeth also. I don’t want him to get worse and my heart breaking seeing him so unwell and weak.
 
I’m sorry your boy is unwell. How much critical care are you giving him? I’ve no experience but don’t know that blended fruit and veg is a good thing to be giving him for weight gain. Perhaps you could try grated sweet potato as well?

Hopefully someone with more experience will be along soon to give you a more comprehensive answer.
 
He has the blended fruit and veg mixed with the critical care or porridge oats as he was refusing the critical care before I added something more to his taste, it’s been hard. I’ll definitely give that a go thank you so much for responding I hope I can get some advice as I just want him to be okay x
 
My guinea pig has malocclusion as it’s very unwell, sometimes he will eat very well and others he won’t I’m worried he isn’t gaining the weight he’s meant to. He’s on pain meds and antibiotics but he keeps getting trapped poo of which I’m helping him get out as best I can and he has this smell that’s like cheese is that normal? We have to wait until he finishes the antibiotics to see the vet again but I’m worried he isn’t getting better. They want him to put on weight as he’s lost quite a bit what else could I do? I’m doing the critical care food, blended fruit and veg and porridge oats, is there anything else I could try? He had his procedure to file his teeth also. I don’t want him to get worse and my heart breaking seeing him so unwell and weak.
I mean to put is very unwell not its*
 
Hi and I'm really sorry for your problems. Only a few suggestions but first can we know how old Shadow is? It sounds like he's a young fellow if he's not putting on weight like he's supposed to but the trapped poop is usually an older piggy problem. What does he weigh and how much has he lost? Cheesy smells aren't normal in my experience. Old George at 5 now needs a bit of help and his normal poops don't smell of anything but the soft fudgy caecotrophs actually smell more of cabbage than anything else. But if Shadow is on antibiotics that might explain his upset gut. You can get probiotics to mix in with the critical care... my vet gives a powder called bio-lapis or there is something called Fibreplex that comes in a big white syringe - I mix a batch of CC in the morning and add some probiotic so piggy gets it throughout the day. You can just buy this stuff without prescription.

You might need to up the mls of CC. A full grown 1 kilo piggy could need as much as 60ml over 24 hours to maintain weight. The last time I fed a little sow long term she maintained at 950g and comfortably took about 45ml. We did between 5 and 15 at a time depending on how he could manage it and we didn't feed between 11pm and 7am but apart from that it was throughout the day every 3 hours or so. But it did take a long time at each session for her. It depends if he will eat it on his own from a bowl or has to be persuaded to take the syringe. We used something called Recovery but it's the same sort of thing. We've found that the green packet of CC (aniseed flavour) was not popular but we sent off for the brown packet of CC Fine Grind (papaya flavour) which was much more popular. We hear Emeraid is also popular on the forum. Pigs need large volumes of this sort of high fibre food to keep the guts moving and keep poops going... the poops can run a day or so behind intake. Fruit and veg in large quantities can cause issues on it's own for some pigs that might be prone to bloat so just be a bit careful about that. And don't worry about syringing water - there is plenty of water in the CC if it's runny enough to syringe so if the poops are looking a bit dry just add more to the slurry - it's safer.

If he's on pain meds is it metacam/loxicom? What is the concentration (0.5 or 1.5 mg/ml) and how much does he get? If he's in pain that can put them off eating and if he's not eating hay that won't help his teeth... is he eating any hay at all? Or maybe grass if you can get some fresh grass? After a dental op my girl had pain meds for a week actually because they tolerate the metacam very well and like the taste so we were confident it wouldn't cause any issues.

There is an excellent dental vet called Simon Maddocks at the Cat and Rabbit Clinic in Northampton who many dental pigs on the forum have travelled to see. He can do conscious dentals and has so much experience. There is a guinea pig sanctuary (TEAS - the excellent animal sanctuary) near there and they do boarding for piggies that might need treatment.

Good luck and I hope you can get some answers x
 
Hi and I'm really sorry for your problems. Only a few suggestions but first can we know how old Shadow is? It sounds like he's a young fellow if he's not putting on weight like he's supposed to but the trapped poop is usually an older piggy problem. What does he weigh and how much has he lost? Cheesy smells aren't normal in my experience. Old George at 5 now needs a bit of help and his normal poops don't smell of anything but the soft fudgy caecotrophs actually smell more of cabbage than anything else. But if Shadow is on antibiotics that might explain his upset gut. You can get probiotics to mix in with the critical care... my vet gives a powder called bio-lapis or there is something called Fibreplex that comes in a big white syringe - I mix a batch of CC in the morning and add some probiotic so piggy gets it throughout the day. You can just buy this stuff without prescription.

You might need to up the mls of CC. A full grown 1 kilo piggy could need as much as 60ml over 24 hours to maintain weight. The last time I fed a little sow long term she maintained at 950g and comfortably took about 45ml. We did between 5 and 15 at a time depending on how he could manage it and we didn't feed between 11pm and 7am but apart from that it was throughout the day every 3 hours or so. But it did take a long time at each session for her. It depends if he will eat it on his own from a bowl or has to be persuaded to take the syringe. We used something called Recovery but it's the same sort of thing. We've found that the green packet of CC (aniseed flavour) was not popular but we sent off for the brown packet of CC Fine Grind (papaya flavour) which was much more popular. We hear Emeraid is also popular on the forum. Pigs need large volumes of this sort of high fibre food to keep the guts moving and keep poops going... the poops can run a day or so behind intake. Fruit and veg in large quantities can cause issues on it's own for some pigs that might be prone to bloat so just be a bit careful about that. And don't worry about syringing water - there is plenty of water in the CC if it's runny enough to syringe so if the poops are looking a bit dry just add more to the slurry - it's safer.

If he's on pain meds is it metacam/loxicom? What is the concentration (0.5 or 1.5 mg/ml) and how much does he get? If he's in pain that can put them off eating and if he's not eating hay that won't help his teeth... is he eating any hay at all? Or maybe grass if you can get some fresh grass? After a dental op my girl had pain meds for a week actually because they tolerate the metacam very well and like the taste so we were confident it wouldn't cause any issues.

There is an excellent dental vet called Simon Maddocks at the Cat and Rabbit Clinic in Northampton who many dental pigs on the forum have travelled to see. He can do conscious dentals and has so much experience. There is a guinea pig sanctuary (TEAS - the excellent animal sanctuary) near there and they do boarding for piggies that might need treatment.

Good luck and I hope you can get some answers x
Hello and thank you ever so much for reaching out and with so much helpful information, shadow is still very young we haven’t had him long, he’s 18 weeks so it’s even more heartbreaking to see him in such condition. He only weighed 0.4kg and then we was told he lost more but they didn’t say how much just said it was a little so they’ve given us the antibiotics and the time period whilst on them to get him to put weight on before we go back. I’m trying my best with the CC he just keeps refusing it the only way I’m getting him to eat now is porridge and sometimes adding a little fruit or veg I’m trying not to overdo it, but I’m about to try doing a little porridge with his normal food blended to see if he will take that as it has hay in it and he currently isn’t eating hay, he isn’t very active just wants to sit still it’s horrible to witness as I just want to get him better. The cheese smell I’m unsure if it’s from his saliva or back end as it seems to be coming from both, the vet said it could be something to do with his gut. He’s on metcam 0.1 though twice daily and his antibiotics are 3.5 I'm wanting to find somewhere else to take him as sadly I don’t feel the vets I'm at are equipped with the suitable knowledge, I heard about Simon on here and that’s my next option if the vet isn’t much help at our next visit. I'm trying to save money at the moment for any care/treatment but I'm on low income and spent loads at the vet I'm at, I’ll pay anything to get him better :( it’s so hard seeing him this way. I didn’t know there was other types of CC where can I purchase these? I’ll try anything at this point. I need to find a suitable method of food for him as I’m worried all this changing is just upsetting his stomach more it’s just so hard when he keeps refusing the CC. Thanks again for the response
 
You need to aim for 60ml in a 24 hour period. So roughly 5ml every 2 hours. Perhaps mix in some sweet potato. Which CC are you giving him? You should also weigh him once daily at the same time - probably mornings are best.

You could also try putting it on a spoon for him to lick off. Or in a bowl in his cage. Have a read of the links below.

Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

I’ll also tag @Wiebke @furryfriends (TEAS) @VickiA
He was eating so well now I can barely manage 2-4 syringes during each feed :( I’m not sure why he isn’t wanting any now. He’s using the oxbow critical care. I’ve put a bowl in his cage but from what I’ve seen he hasn’t even touched it, I’m so worried now and want to see him seen sooner but my pay day isn’t until the 30th.
You need to aim for 60ml in a 24 hour period. So roughly 5ml every 2 hours. Perhaps mix in some sweet potato. Which CC are you giving him? You should also weigh him once daily at the same time - probably mornings are best.

You could also try putting it on a spoon for him to lick off. Or in a bowl in his cage. Have a read of the links below.

Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

I’ll also tag @Wiebke @furryfriends (TEAS) @VickiA
 
He was eating so well now I can barely manage 2-4 syringes during each feed :( I’m not sure why he isn’t wanting any now. He’s using the oxbow critical care. I’ve put a bowl in his cage but from what I’ve seen he hasn’t even touched it, I’m so worried now and want to see him seen sooner but my pay day isn’t until the 30th.
And some feeds he won’t take any at all :(
 
@furryfriends (TEAS) does cheesy smells in the mouth suggest an abscess in there to you?
@Shadowsmum If you have a cotton bud could you try wiping one just inside his mouth (slide down one side of his little cheek) and then use a different one to gently insert just inside his behind (be very careful - don't poke it in) and then you might be able to tell which end the smell is coming from.

I googled to find the CC fine grind papaya flavour and ordered over the internet - the green pack aniseed flavour and the Recovery we just got from local vets that I phoned round to find some. We had to register at reception but I explained that we were just trying different types - you don't need to be seen or anything to get this if they have it in stock because it's not a medicine - just a different type of food. They only register you for their invoice system.

I don't think you'll be able to manage anything like 60 ml CC because he's not fully grown but it's worth weighing him daily at the same time to keep an eye on whether he's gaining or losing weight. He sounds very sad in himself. I would suspect the antibiotics are upsetting his system but where did the vet think he had an infection... was it some sort of tooth abscess? If it is uncomfortable for him to take the syringe he will fight it, poor boy. Is his piggy friend looking after him? They are often very close when one is ill.
When you say 3.5 of AB do you mean mls? Or do you mean 0.35 of a ml... it's quite a difference! And could you tell us the name and the concentration? (eg Baytril is a commonly used antibiotic) And how long has he been taking them. If they are going to work you usually see a difference after a day or two but it can take 3 days sometimes. If you are not seeing any difference after 4 or 5 days it is likely that you either need a different antibiotic or that bacterial infection is not his main problem. What were they prescribed for - infected gums? Dental operation?

If he's on 0.1 ml? kg? metacam and it is the 0.5mg/ml strength one that seems a bit low if he's refusing all food, but the vet will have to advise on raising that - it could well be that pain is stopping him eating in the short term so upping his pain relief might encourage him but try and get a call or mail into your vet asap because his bodyweight and age will all affect how much he can have. In the past we've put in a call and requested a call back which happens at the end of the day and usually someone says "yes, give them this instead and see how you get on". In the short term they've never said no. My George is 1.4 kilo and is on about 0.5ml of 1.5mg/ml once per day for his arthritis - now I reckon that works out at about 0.5 mgs per kg of pig per 24 hours - it's quite a complicated calculation which is why the vets do it and not us. But the syringe I get isn't actually marked in ml, it's marked in kg because piggies have a higher dose than dogs (in my case) so George gets "8 kg" on the syringe - that half a ml or so is actually the dose for an 8 kilo dog!

If you got him from a shop and it was not very long ago you have some consumer rights as if you have been sold any 'faulty products' but I'm afraid I don't know the time limitations of these or how to go about making a claim. I do know that sometimes people have been able to get their vet bills paid at least in part by the company that sold an unwell guinea pig. It will be worth phoning cat and rabbit to register and trying to make an appointment with Simon - ask reception about how to get emergency appointments there too.
 
I’m sorry your struggling to too him up. Maybe try adding a little mashed banana. Or another one from the link I gave you.

Is it possible to speak to the vets about a payment plan or borrow the money from someone?
 
@furryfriends (TEAS) does cheesy smells in the mouth suggest an abscess in there to you?
@Shadowsmum If you have a cotton bud could you try wiping one just inside his mouth (slide down one side of his little cheek) and then use a different one to gently insert just inside his behind (be very careful - don't poke it in) and then you might be able to tell which end the smell is coming from.

I googled to find the CC fine grind papaya flavour and ordered over the internet - the green pack aniseed flavour and the Recovery we just got from local vets that I phoned round to find some. We had to register at reception but I explained that we were just trying different types - you don't need to be seen or anything to get this if they have it in stock because it's not a medicine - just a different type of food. They only register you for their invoice system.

I don't think you'll be able to manage anything like 60 ml CC because he's not fully grown but it's worth weighing him daily at the same time to keep an eye on whether he's gaining or losing weight. He sounds very sad in himself. I would suspect the antibiotics are upsetting his system but where did the vet think he had an infection... was it some sort of tooth abscess? If it is uncomfortable for him to take the syringe he will fight it, poor boy. Is his piggy friend looking after him? They are often very close when one is ill.
When you say 3.5 of AB do you mean mls? Or do you mean 0.35 of a ml... it's quite a difference! And could you tell us the name and the concentration? (eg Baytril is a commonly used antibiotic) And how long has he been taking them. If they are going to work you usually see a difference after a day or two but it can take 3 days sometimes. If you are not seeing any difference after 4 or 5 days it is likely that you either need a different antibiotic or that bacterial infection is not his main problem. What were they prescribed for - infected gums? Dental operation?

If he's on 0.1 ml? kg? metacam and it is the 0.5mg/ml strength one that seems a bit low if he's refusing all food, but the vet will have to advise on raising that - it could well be that pain is stopping him eating in the short term so upping his pain relief might encourage him but try and get a call or mail into your vet asap because his bodyweight and age will all affect how much he can have. In the past we've put in a call and requested a call back which happens at the end of the day and usually someone says "yes, give them this instead and see how you get on". In the short term they've never said no. My George is 1.4 kilo and is on about 0.5ml of 1.5mg/ml once per day for his arthritis - now I reckon that works out at about 0.5 mgs per kg of pig per 24 hours - it's quite a complicated calculation which is why the vets do it and not us. But the syringe I get isn't actually marked in ml, it's marked in kg because piggies have a higher dose than dogs (in my case) so George gets "8 kg" on the syringe - that half a ml or so is actually the dose for an 8 kilo dog!

If you got him from a shop and it was not very long ago you have some consumer rights as if you have been sold any 'faulty products' but I'm afraid I don't know the time limitations of these or how to go about making a claim. I do know that sometimes people have been able to get their vet bills paid at least in part by the company that sold an unwell guinea pig. It will be worth phoning cat and rabbit to register and trying to make an appointment with Simon - ask reception about how to get emergency appointments there too.
I think with the cheese type smell it smells like infection to me if that makes any sense, I think that’s why they have the antibiotics yes it’s that antibiotic you mentioned and it’s just between the 3 and 4 ml if that makes sense sorry I’m terrible when it’s come to explaining measurements. I thought his pain meds were a little low also, I’ll call and ask if I can up the dosage if that’s allowed as I don’t want him to be in pain. I know I hate that he’s sad breaks my heart, he does see his little friend but I have to be careful as since shadows become unwell they aren’t getting along as well and go to fight :( I’m not sure why but read online it can happen when one is unwell. I definitely want to try something else, I managed to get him to do quite a few syringes today he’s had more than I expected but I don’t think the porridge oats agree much with his tummy :( it’s so hard when I can’t get him to eat anything else and he will only eat the porridge if I mix with strawberries or baby spinach, I definitely need a new CC. Yeah I’ve tried calling the pet shop since and no answer so trying again tomorrow they need to know how wrong they are and I’ll never be going there again that’s for sure. I’m going to call and ask for more information in regards to getting an appointment with Simon I’m quite far from there but will go anywhere to get him better, do you know if they do any type of payment plan there? Thanks again for all the information and help I appreciate it so much.
 
I’m sorry your struggling to too him up. Maybe try adding a little mashed banana. Or another one from the link I gave you.

Is it possible to speak to the vets about a payment plan or borrow the money from someone?
Yeah I’ve added banana but he’s better with strawberry and spinach currently so I’m hoping he will continue to eat like today. The vet I’m at currently doesn’t do payment plans and I already lent some for his first visit and have no one else to help sadly but I’m hoping I can find somewhere that are more experienced and can do some type of payment plan. Thanks so much again :)
 
Please try and get your guinea pig seen by Simon or Kim Maddock at the Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton. The cheesy smell could be caused by oral thrush in the mouth, which would make it very painful to eat. In the meantime it is imperative that you get syringe food into your guinea pig. If he doesn't like Critical Care then mush up normal guinea pig nuggets. This can be done by putting some in a cup, boiling the kettle, adding the water and mixing it up into a paste. As long as you cut the end off a 1 ml syringe, it will work well. I find most guinea pigs much prefer the mushed nuggets to Critical Care.

I would suggest not going back to the vet you've been using, especially as money is tight, but to ask that vet to refer you to Simon or Kim Maddock.
 
I agree with the above. We've had people asking for advice on here and it has turned out that their piggies have been filed badly and then the vet who did it (who doesn't see any problem with their method) just wants to have another go a month or two later. Please bear in mind it isn't always the teeth that are the primary problem - sometimes there is an underlying problem that results in them eating less and less hay, which then causes teeth to overgrow and it's a vicious circle. That sounds really depressing I know, and you are probably exhausted with the syringing already but you are doing really well for him x

Typically people who offer oats use the dried oats in their raw form - they don't actually make it into porridge like people eat.

Can you find a bit of grass anywhere that isn't from a roadside and hasn't been peed on by animals? I know it can be a challenge at this time of year but that can often tempt them. I was bashing grass in water in a mortar and pestle at one point and using the resulting green water to mix the CC to try and give it an appealing flavour.

@furryfriends (TEAS) can oral thrush be treated? Or is it just a side effect of antibiotics that has to be tolerated until the course is finished?
 
Please try and get your guinea pig seen by Simon or Kim Maddock at the Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton. The cheesy smell could be caused by oral thrush in the mouth, which would make it very painful to eat. In the meantime it is imperative that you get syringe food into your guinea pig. If he doesn't like Critical Care then mush up normal guinea pig nuggets. This can be done by putting some in a cup, boiling the kettle, adding the water and mixing it up into a paste. As long as you cut the end off a 1 ml syringe, it will work well. I find most guinea pigs much prefer the mushed nuggets to Critical Care.

I would suggest not going back to the vet you've been using, especially as money is tight, but to ask that vet to refer you to Simon or Kim Maddock.
He’s been eating the CC quite well today I keep telling him how proud I am but the smell does remain. I want to go there so desperately and can probably find transport I’m just worried about the type of money they’ll want as since Christmas I haven’t got much and I lost my job due to Covid so I’m pretty broke. Do I need to get my vet to refer or can I call myself? Just everytime ive asked about referrals to the vet they said it’ll cost loads as there’s a charge for them to refer me. I will do anything in my power to get him better I just need to find the right path to go down and I do believe Simon or Kim are my best bet here.
 
He’s been eating the CC quite well today I keep telling him how proud I am but the smell does remain. I want to go there so desperately and can probably find transport I’m just worried about the type of money they’ll want as since Christmas I haven’t got much and I lost my job due to Covid so I’m pretty broke. Do I need to get my vet to refer or can I call myself? Just everytime ive asked about referrals to the vet they said it’ll cost loads as there’s a charge for them to refer me. I will do anything in my power to get him better I just need to find the right path to go down and I do believe Simon or Kim are my best bet here.
Your vet will need to refer as Cat and Rabbit Clinic have closed to new clients, but will still see guinea pigs, with dental issues, as long as the current vet refers. Your vet can't charge to send the notes on to Simon and the charges at Cat and Rabbit Clinic are generally cheaper than at a lot of practices.
 
I can recommend Simon or Kim Maddock they are amazing vets, their dental knowledge and treatments are top notch, you won’t be disappointed x
 
You can always call and ask about charges. They are just a normal vet practice with great expertise. It might be cheaper than London vets! (If you are London... I might be mixing you up with someone else...)
 
Your vet will need to refer as Cat and Rabbit Clinic have closed to new clients, but will still see guinea pigs, with dental issues, as long as the current vet refers. Your vet can't charge to send the notes on to Simon and the charges at Cat and Rabbit Clinic are generally cheaper than at a lot of practices.
The vet still want us to go to an appointment tomorrow which is going to cost but they said they’ll refer us, so I’m hopeful
 
A conscious dental is about £69 and there is a one off registration/consultation fee of around £50. The dental work will be done there and then, they will tell you exactly what the problem is which I found so helpful. If you need to return at a later date you only pay for the dental, no more consultation fees

They are great, my boy Ted was having dreadful problems eating, especially after a local vet performed a GA dental and was wanting to put him PTS, we found out about Simon and Kim Maddock, travelled up from Cornwall and Ted was eating hay before we even left the vets

Good luck x
 
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A conscious dental is about £69 and there is a one off registration/consultation fee of around £50. The dental work will be done there and then, they will tell you exactly what the problem is which I found so helpful. If you need to return at a later date you only pay for the dental, no more consultation fees

They are great, my boy Ted was having dreadful problems eating, especially after a local vet performed a GA dental and was wanting to put him PTS, we found out about Simon and Kim Maddock, travelled up from Cornwall and Ted was eating hay before we even left the vets

Good luck x
Hello, thank you for all the information, my vet made the referral today but by the sounds of what he said he said I should be prepared for the worst :( Shadows Molars have already grown and from what he can see they’re bridging and the vet said there won’t be much probably that can be done :( I’m heartbroken and I’m praying for Simon or Kim to be my last hope, I don’t want to lose him.
 
Do let us know how you get on - we'll all be thinking about you and Shadow. Just try and keep his guts going with the syringe food until you can get in there... there have been miracles before, and at the very very worst if Simon or Kim tell you there's nothing to be done you know you can believe it. But we've heard some remarkable stories on here. Even if a piggy has had to have a few dentals it doesn't mean they will be like that all their lives. Shadow has a hero in you x
 
I’m really praying at this point, I’ll do anything possible for him. I just hope there’s something that can be done and of course you’re right I’ll always know I did whatever was possible for him. I just hate this condition I really do it’s effected my poor boy so much :( we got further antibiotics, CC and pain meds today for him to keep him going until he gets his referral and his still eating with the syringe just sadly not as much, I just hope he makes it I truly do. Thank you so much for everything I’ll keep the post updated xx
 
If your vet has sent the referral, it might be worth you ringing Cat and Rabbit Clinic tomorrow, to see if you can get an appointment booked soon. Explain he’s really struggling!

Simon and Kim have worked miracles with so many piggies.
I’m praying we end being one of those miracle cases, I’m trying everything to save up ready for the appointment even set up a go fund me because I’m so worried about the funding, I just want him to be okay :( my hearts broken. I’ll give them a call tomorrow my vet said it could be a while as it’s nearly New Years but they put it through as priority x
 
Do you know if they do any type of payment plan or anything?
 
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