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Loss of piggy

Sorry for your loss.

I can't advise you medically, I would think only an autopsy would give a diffinitve answer.

Please take solace in the fact you have cared and done your best by seeking emergency veterinary treatment.
I think it was the medication that made him ill and he didn't even need it. I was so stupid giving it to him because I trusted the vet. I'm struggling to deal with what's happened to him, I feel like I killed him.
 
I am so sorry that you are still feeling this way.

Unfortunately as guinea pigs can’t tell us or the vets how they are feeling or what is wrong, this does make it very difficult to identify what is going wrong in many cases. Even the most experienced of owners and the most experienced of vets are unable to identify at times what is going on. I know that I speak for many of us on here when I say that many of us have also unexpectedly lost piggies and been baffled and bewildered by it. It is a natural part of the grieving process to question everything you did or did not do, and then to question everything the vet did or did not do.

It is most unlikely that antibiotics would have caused your beloved pig to pass. It is most unlikely that anything you did or did not do caused your piggy to pass.

Please have a good read of the guide I am going to link for you here Human Bereavement - Grieving, coping tips and support links for guinea pig owners and their children. This guide helps to explain some of the emotions you are experiencing. You may well benefit from speaking to a bereavement counsellor about this loss - the Blue Cross provide this service Pet Bereavement

Please take time to be gentle with yourself as you process this grief.

And finally please could I ask you to stick to this one thread so that all information and advice is in the one place. This helps both us and you to see what has been said.
He was fine before he had the medication, he was given the clear by the vet that there was nothing wrong with him but she still gave him the medication and then he went down hill. I noticed that he was low when he started the medication and I stupidly kept giving it to him even though he tried his best not to have it but because he most likely knew the medication wasn't good for him as animals know. It's becoming more clear that it was the medication that caused him to be poorly. I'm sorry to bother anyone. So far I'm not really getting any answers on here. Metacam can cause swelling in the belly as that was the side effect which he had. I'm just so angry.
 
I’m sorry for your loss and I’m sorry your grieving , but I know what it’s like to put the blame game out there, it’s no one’s fault, things happen and no one can predict the future, piggies can hide their illnesses to the last point, leaving us feeling guilty saying what if! Why? If I didn’t, please remember the good times that you had, I know you’ve lost your fur baby but you will drive yourself crazy going round and round in circles
 
He was fine before he had the medication, he was given the clear by the vet that there was nothing wrong with him but she still gave him the medication and then he went down hill. I noticed that he was low when he started the medication and I stupidly kept giving it to him even though he tried his best not to have it but because he most likely knew the medication wasn't good for him as animals know. It's becoming more clear that it was the medication that caused him to be poorly. I'm sorry to bother anyone. So far I'm not really getting any answers on here. Metacam can cause swelling in the belly as that was the side effect which he had. I'm just so angry.

Veterinary medication is unflavoured, so rarely tastes nice. Your piggy fought it because of the taste. Just to put that point into context.
Antibiotics can affect the digestive gut bacteria as well in some cases; piggies will need round the clock feeding support during that time if they suffer loss of appetite.

Please seek trained support. You are really going round in circles and are reflecting everything negatively back on yourself. You are sadly not helping your piggy in any way by pushing aside all the positive experiences you have shared. Instead, you are harming yourself you twisting every aspect and fact so it fits into your guilt trip; including all the good you have had in your life with your piggy. Is that fair to them?

I am very sorry; losing a piggy is always upsetting. I've just lost one of my own this weekend who went downhill all of a sudden when his body went into organ failure and was gone within just a day. :(

But stuff happens and you can never always get all the answers. Life is not about how you stumble - we all do it repeatedly - but very much about how you get up and how you get on. You can always only try your best and do better next time round. Nowhere says that you have to get it right every time.
And yes, I have made some serious mistakes with my own piggies in the half century of having them in my life that meant they didn't make it. I have however saved many more piggy lives than I have lost by using my mistakes in a constructive way. It was painful at the time but I have ultimately learned more and gained a much deeper understanding from making mistakes and from decisions I have got wrong than if I had always got it right.

Ownership is a constant life long learning curve, the same as parenthood. The world is also not just black and white, it is all shades of grey; as much as you are concentrating on painting yourself and your world black right now. There is so much more good you can do to honour your piggy in a good way than just putting yourself into a balck echo chamber with a repeat loop.

You can start with finding another vet and look after the bereaved companion, for instance.
 
Hi

I agree with @VickiA . It is very easy in your desperate need for answers to find a place to fixate on what is handy and not necessarily on whether that is the real culprit. Antibiotics are given to save lives because there is a health issue that can lead to death without the medication, first and foremost.

Please be aware that a fair share of the online cases that blame the death of their piggy on the antibiotic are in fact from people in your situation doing exactly the same thing and then others reading it; it has become over time a self-reinforcing thing.
When doing your research online, it will unfortunately give you a very misleading picture. For people with major bereavement and mental health issues, doing that kind of research is not at all helpful because they lack the framework to put it all into the proper perspective.
Antibiotics can cause loss of appetite and there can be occasionally a bad reaction to them but they do not usually kill in and of themselves. If they really did that, they would be actually quickly withdrawn for use in that species. Yet despite all the bad press especially from traumatised people, this has not happened - for a very good reason: because the negative side effects have been blown badly out of proportion. They only affect a very small number of piggies in view of the much, much larger number of prescriptions. What you never get when doing your online snooping is the vast number of unexceptional recoveries because they are not considered worth posting about. Without that corrective in mind, you can very easily arrive at a very wrong impression.

Please never make the mistake of letting a pet of yours die untreated because of erroneously believing that the cure is worse than the illness it is used against. Your own fears can be more fatal for your pet than any medication or operation. We have sadly seen that repeatedly on here over the years from people who have made the next step on the path you have taken; sometimes sadly leading to a very unnecessary and perfectly avoidable tragedy. :(

PLEASE seek trained help either via the free support platforms that the Blue Cross offers for bereaved pet owners or via a mental health support platform. What you are dealing with is a more extreme form that you should not try to tackle on your own because it won't lead you to a good place and won't do anything constructive for your piggy or yourself and any further pets in your life. When you get stuck on a particular hurdle, you'd better get help to get over it. ;)

Feelings of failure or guilt are par for the course at the onset of the grieving process (we all have them to some extent or other) as is the need for a definite answer. Unfortunately, the latter can only be answered by a prompt post mortem examination (and it may not always be conclusive). For the other, your fixation on the guilt/need to find an answer for what you have done wrong (you actually have NOT done anything wrong) and your inability to move on, there is support out there.
Any of our forum members who have ever made use of the free Blue Cross (UK animal charity) support services - often after much persuasion from us - has come back with the feedback that it has really helped them. Please do get help for yourself and don't keep floundering in a sea of self-recrimination and trying to fix the blame on something for the sheer sake of attaching blame.

Here is the link to the Blue Cross pet bereavement page with their various tailored services to suit your own needs best: Pet bereavement and pet loss

If you want to put your own experience into the appropriate perspective, you will hopefull find our grieving guide with lots of very practical advice and tips helpful: Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children
Thankyou for taking the time writing all this, it means alot.
It's very difficult to move forward when he was given the clear and strangely the vet gave him medication of "just in case" but isn't that abit risky when antibiotics can affect his tummy especially it can stop Guinea pigs from eating. Metacam is also another risky one when it can cause the swelling of the belly which he had.
I'm sorry if I seem to be going on about this as it's been over a week since he died and trying to understand what happened.
I understand where you are coming from about that it puts people off from going to the vets and there was a man on a documentary, he used to be a vet and he exposed the vets for what they really were, he got depressed with what was happening that he quit his job. He said that often the medication for animals is to make them sick so the vets can make more money which would not surprise me but I would not let my animals suffer and it's good to be aware. I know not all vets are like that but it's not easy finding a good vet, so far I haven't found one I actually trust.
Sorry if my reply isn't very long as I can't think clearly.
 
Thankyou for taking the time writing all this, it means alot.
It's very difficult to move forward when he was given the clear and strangely the vet gave him medication of "just in case" but isn't that abit risky when antibiotics can affect his tummy especially it can stop Guinea pigs from eating. Metacam is also another risky one when it can cause the swelling of the belly which he had.
I'm sorry if I seem to be going on about this as it's been over a week since he died and trying to understand what happened.
I understand where you are coming from about that it puts people off from going to the vets and there was a man on a documentary, he used to be a vet and he exposed the vets for what they really were, he got depressed with what was happening that he quit his job. He said that often the medication for animals is to make them sick so the vets can make more money which would not surprise me but I would not let my animals suffer and it's good to be aware. I know not all vets are like that but it's not easy finding a good vet, so far I haven't found one I actually trust.
Sorry if my reply isn't very long as I can't think clearly.

Hi
The swelling of the belly was more likely bloat. What your piggy may have died from could have been acute bloat (serious gassing) rather than the medication because we have never seen a 'swollen belly' from metacam use on here in 15 years and tens of thousands health/illness enquiries. It may or may not related to the antibiotic or an underlying weakness in your piggy that was lurking without specific symptoms. Guinea pigs are great at suppressing symptoms until it is too late.
Did you contact your vet about the gassing and the loss of appetite straight away?

I am very sorry but your online research seems to unfortunately very much hampered by reading up on all the cases where upset people have put 2 and 2 together and have got the wrong end of the stick in order to make their own answers fit their experience. That is a really nasty rabbit hole to disappear into and you seem to sadly have run down it full tilt. I am very sorry because you are making your own life so much worse for it. :(

If one unfortunate experience is putting you off all vets, then please stop keeping pets or you will be killing your pets all by yourself sooner or later with inadequate DIY home treating - the internet is full of it and the carcasses of unnecessary deaths.


Vet bashing is also not an answer; it is throwing the baby out with the bath. Are all professions and all people bad because of just one rotten apple? It is of course an easy way of trying to shift guilt away from yourself, only that it doesn't seem to be working in your case. You can't really blame a vet for doing their job and for prescribing standard medication and asking you to finish a full course of antibiotics for a health issue where any remaining potential small bacterial load could have caused some serious trouble down the line; after all that was what you were seeing them for in the first place?

The vast majority of vets are doing their very best to preserve as many lives as possible, work extremely long hours and go well beyond in what they are doing. I would have lost quite a number of piggies of mine or would have had to watch them die slowly in agony if it had not been for them staying on after work or for giving up their lunch break to accommode a badly bleeding piggy or release a suffering piggy. I have a huge respect for what they are doing and the dedication with which they are doing their job; even if they are only normal people and do not always get it right - on balance, many more piggies of mine have had years of extra life than have died after a vet couldn't find anything obvious wrong.
Do you really want to believe a fake conspiratory vet video like that? The first thing I would have done is to research their credentials and to report them. We have seen too many debunked videos in that style for Covid, politics etc. after all. I sincerely hope that man is reborn as the hapless pet of a home curing follower of his to repay for all the unnecessary suffering and deaths he is promoting!

Painting everything black just because you are in the mood for it is really not the right answer and will sadly not get you into a better place. I empathise with your distress but can only notice that you have been rather increasing it than easing it. :(

PLEASE seek help! You have really got yourself caught up in a thorny thicket there.
 
The Internet can't tell you what killed him. I can only echo continued advice to take this to professionals - talk to a bereavement service to help with this clearly harmful loop of thought, and maybe get an autopsy for your pig to find the true reason he died.

Looking for answers on the Internet can be a great way to find a lot of harmful information - answers that are compelling because they are easy and mean you have both an explanation and someone clear to blame. You can feed whatever toxic thought you like on the Internet if you have a mind to, especially if you don't have a good framework for reviewing new information critically or are emotionally compromised (such as in grief).

For myself, I took a pig to the vet with a cough in January. She was not diagnosed with a URI at the consultation but was given abx later when symptoms persisted and nasal discharge appeared, just in case. Symptoms resolved as she completed the course, and she is now well. There will be hundreds of similar stories, uninteresting and not talked about on the internet - because it went the way it was supposed to. For every horror story you find, there are so, so many mild, vanilla, boring stories like mine, stories which didn't need closure and so never made it to somewhere you could find us, hurt and desperately searching for answers, any answers. Do keep this in mind when you read the alarmist ones.

Please do seek some professional help before this does you further harm.
 
Hi
The swelling of the belly was more likely bloat. What your piggy may have died from could have been acute bloat (serious gassing) rather than the medication because we have never seen a 'swollen belly' from metacam use on here in 15 years and tens of thousands health/illness enquiries. It may or may not related to the antibiotic or an underlying weakness in your piggy that was lurking without specific symptoms. Guinea pigs are great at suppressing symptoms until it is too late.
Did you contact your vet about the gassing and the loss of appetite straight away?

I am very sorry but your online research seems to unfortunately very much hampered by reading up on all the cases where upset people have put 2 and 2 together and have got the wrong end of the stick in order to make their own answers fit their experience. That is a really nasty rabbit hole to disappear into and you seem to sadly have run down it full tilt. I am very sorry because you are making your own life so much worse for it. :(

If one unfortunate experience is putting you off all vets, then please stop keeping pets or you will be killing your pets all by yourself sooner or later with inadequate DIY home treating - the internet is full of it and the carcasses of unnecessary deaths.
Vet bashing is also not an answer; it is throwing the baby out with the bath. Are all professions and all people bad because of just one rotten apple? It is of course an easy way to try to shifting guilt away from yourself, only that it doesn't seem to be working. You can't blame a vet for doing their job and for prescribing standard medication and asking you to finish a full course of antibiotics for a health issue where any remaining potential small bacterial load could have caused some serious trouble down the line; after all that was what you were seeing them for in the first place?

The vast majority of vets are doing their very best to preserve as many lives as possible and work extremely long hours and go well beyond in what they are doing. I would have lost several piggies or mine or would have to watch them die slowly in agony if it had not been for them staying on after work or for giving up their lunch break. I have a huge respect for what they are doing and the dedication with which they are doing their job; even if they are only normal people and do not always get it right.
Painting everything black just because you are in the mood for it is really not the right answer and will not get you into a better place. :(

PLEASE seek help! You have really got yourself caught up in a thorny thicket there.
So you think it could of been bloat that killed him?. I read online that Guinea pigs with bloat don't usually go down hill that quickly like he did. He was still eating from Monday until 6:30pm on Friday when he didn't really want to eat but he had couple of pea flakes which I didn't think it was serious then. I read online that it can take 36 hours for Guinea pigs to stop eating with a bloat and it was only 16 hours that he didn't really eat as I thought it was down to the medication that he didn't want to eat that's why I didn't take him in straight away. Also the vet tapped his belly because usually you can hear a hollow but the vet couldn't hear anything and he was baffled about what was wrong with him, even the vet did not tell me that the bloat caused his death so if it was that surely the vet would say it was bloat that caused it?. He actually said it was a neurological problem because they don't usually fit over a bloat and said he's never seen anything like it. I did ask him if the medication caused it and he did not say no.
I'm not saying all vets are bad and I always take my animals to the vets when they are ill, I have never left them to get ill alone. I'm not someone who relys on home remedies but I do believe some home remedies work like for example Alfie had a bad eye to the point where he looked blind, I kept taking him to the vets and every time it made it worse so then I used colloidal sliver and his eye was better so not all drugs actually work, some do make it worse for the animal.
Don't think bad of me, of course I'm not going to stop taking my animals to the vets.
 
The Internet can't tell you what killed him. I can only echo continued advice to take this to professionals - talk to a bereavement service to help with this clearly harmful loop of thought, and maybe get an autopsy for your pig to find the true reason he died.

Looking for answers on the Internet can be a great way to find a lot of harmful information - answers that are compelling because they are easy and mean you have both an explanation and someone clear to blame. You can feed whatever toxic thought you like on the Internet if you have a mind to, especially if you don't have a good framework for reviewing new information critically or are emotionally compromised (such as in grief).

For myself, I took a pig to the vet with a cough in January. She was not diagnosed with a URI at the consultation but was given abx later when symptoms persisted and nasal discharge appeared, just in case. Symptoms resolved as she completed the course, and she is now well. There will be hundreds of similar stories, uninteresting and not talked about on the internet - because it went the way it was supposed to. For every horror story you find, there are so, so many mild, vanilla, boring stories like mine, stories which didn't need closure and so never made it to somewhere you could find us, hurt and desperately searching for answers, any answers. Do keep this in mind when you read the alarmist ones.

Please do seek some professional help before this does you further harm.

The Internet can't tell you what killed him. I can only echo continued advice to take this to professionals - talk to a bereavement service to help with this clearly harmful loop of thought, and maybe get an autopsy for your pig to find the true reason he died.

Looking for answers on the Internet can be a great way to find a lot of harmful information - answers that are compelling because they are easy and mean you have both an explanation and someone clear to blame. You can feed whatever toxic thought you like on the Internet if you have a mind to, especially if you don't have a good framework for reviewing new information critically or are emotionally compromised (such as in grief).

For myself, I took a pig to the vet with a cough in January. She was not diagnosed with a URI at the consultation but was given abx later when symptoms persisted and nasal discharge appeared, just in case. Symptoms resolved as she completed the course, and she is now well. There will be hundreds of similar stories, uninteresting and not talked about on the internet - because it went the way it was supposed to. For every horror story you find, there are so, so many mild, vanilla, boring stories like mine, stories which didn't need closure and so never made it to somewhere you could find us, hurt and desperately searching for answers, any answers. Do keep this in mind when you read the alarmist ones.

Please do seek some professional help before this does you further harm.
Unfortunately it's too late to send his body off to find out and I wasn't thinking straight, I was too upset to even think & by then his body started to smell and I had to put him in a freezer until I took him to the vets for cremation after bank holiday.
This happened over a week ago and I wouldn't still have his body here. I was told after being in a freezer it's not possible to test on the body anymore and I have read that some people still had no answers when they did this.
 
Please don’t believe everything you read on the internet, dangerous!
 
Unfortunately it's too late to send his body off to find out and I wasn't thinking straight, I was too upset to even think & by then his body started to smell and I had to put him in a freezer until I took him to the vets for cremation after bank holiday.
This happened over a week ago and I wouldn't still have his body here. I was told after being in a freezer it's not possible to test on the body anymore and I have read that some people still had no answers when they did this.

That's fair enough. The procedure may not have a 100% success rate but the majority do find a cause, and in either case are the most reliable way to get an answer you can have confidence in.

My other advice still stands - speak to a professional to help you work through your bereavement, and exercise caution with and think critically about the information you consume. Have you reached out to the Blue Cross line recommended yet?
 
First off ((HUGS)), and I'm so sorry you went through this. You are clearly grieving and looking for answers. However, and I say this with kindness instead of condemnation, I don't think you are helping yourself by constantly sifting the internet looking for an 'answer' that will put things in perspective for you.

I don't think he passed because of the antibiotics. He was having symptoms before starting them. You can scour the internet and find tons of stories of pigs who were given antibiotics before passing away for the simple reason that sick pigs are more likely to be prescribed antibiotics AND sick pigs are more likely to pass away during the course of the illness. These two things are correlated but that does not equate to a cause. You giving him the antibiotic did not cause his death (I've given pigs sulfatrim several times, as have many other posters here.) You and the vet were both doing your best with the info you had at hand. Neither of you are to blame. Unfortunately, in spite of doing things right, sometimes there is a bad outcome and there's no blame to assign.

Unfortunately, you are unlikely to every know exactly what happened with your pig's condition. That's true for most of us when we lose pets. We have to learn to live with a certain amount of ambiguity. I get that it seems scary, that it seems like if you could just figure out a 'why' you would be able to guard against it in the future, but unfortunately that's not always the case.

It's normal to grieve a pet that you love, but I worry that you are eating yourself up with unwarranted guilt. Is there someone you can talk to to help you work through this? A parent or friend? A professional with some experience in dealing with grief (a poster above gave you some information on a Blue Cross line assisting with pet bereavement.) I promise you, processing your difficult feelings is going to lead to a better resolution that trying to chase clues on the internet. It's hard to face grief head on, but it's going to be the best way to heal.

Again, I'm so sorry you lost your piggie. Please be kind to yourself.
 
Having just lost one of my own piggies I understand your grief, but sometimes there just isn’t an answer.
I also deal with bereavement in my work and it is important to seek help when you find yourself stuck in a loop.
Please take to heart some of the excellent advice you have been given.
One tip though. You say you are still feeling guilty and can’t forgive yourself, well, every time that thought comes into your mind either say or write ‘I forgive myself’.
You will find that one day you really mean it.
Holding you in my heart ♥️
 
So you think it could of been bloat that killed him?. I read online that Guinea pigs with bloat don't usually go down hill that quickly like he did. He was still eating from Monday until 6:30pm on Friday when he didn't really want to eat but he had couple of pea flakes which I didn't think it was serious then. I read online that it can take 36 hours for Guinea pigs to stop eating with a bloat and it was only 16 hours that he didn't really eat as I thought it was down to the medication that he didn't want to eat that's why I didn't take him in straight away. Also the vet tapped his belly because usually you can hear a hollow but the vet couldn't hear anything and he was baffled about what was wrong with him, even the vet did not tell me that the bloat caused his death so if it was that surely the vet would say it was bloat that caused it?. He actually said it was a neurological problem because they don't usually fit over a bloat and said he's never seen anything like it. I did ask him if the medication caused it and he did not say no.
I'm not saying all vets are bad and I always take my animals to the vets when they are ill, I have never left them to get ill alone. I'm not someone who relys on home remedies but I do believe some home remedies work like for example Alfie had a bad eye to the point where he looked blind, I kept taking him to the vets and every time it made it worse so then I used colloidal sliver and his eye was better so not all drugs actually work, some do make it worse for the animal.
Don't think bad of me, of course I'm not going to stop taking my animals to the vets.

I've rushed a piggy that was eating normally at 6 pm to the out of hours vets for pts/euthanasia at 2 am because they were grunting with severe pain despite stepping in with gut meds (for another of my piggies) straight away as soon as I noticed signs of bloating at around 9 pm.That was the fastest but no means only case where I had to pts on because of bloat on the same day; especially with frailer piggies.
However, bloat can be a primary issue but it can also be a secondary one caused by an issue outside the gut and pressing on it or radiating into it. Fitting is not uncommon in the later stages of multi-organ failure in a dying guinea pig. Unfortunately, nobody and no place is able to give you the definite answer you are craving. Searching for symptoms on the internet will not help because you are playing with a lot of jigsaw pieces that you do not even know whether they belong to the same jigsaw or not; you are much more likely to end up with an incorrect picture than not trying to fit only in what suits but is out of its own much larger medical context.

Something has very sadly gone desastrously wrong - but that is also not a normal reaction to an antibiotic or a painkiller and not one that has ever come up on here; in my experience there is usually an underlying illness or weakness for something like this to happen.
I would rather think that it was one of those 'cosmic bad luck' circumstances where several random factors combined with catastrophic results. It does occasionally happen and you (and your vet) are left wondering what the hell is going on. Occasionally you may find a possible explanation years later with the advance of veterinary medicine but more often you will never find the cause and have to just learn to live with it.

Instead tying yourself into tiny pretzels in order to answer the unanswerable try to concentrate on the special things
you and your beloved boy have shared and try not to allow your feelings of guilt and failure overtake everything.
I have done it once with an older piggy whose heart gave out in a necessary eye removal operation after a medical approach failed and the eye was starting to blow up; she'd been found dumped no longer young with some chronic unsightly eye issues due to an untreated eye infection. I'd adopted her because she was stuck in rescue not having any interest between her age and a gunky eye.
Anyway, I had been very fond of gentle Hafina. But because of my strong feelings of guilt (even though I would make exactly the same decision again and I had certainly not done anything wrong in opting for a make or break life-saving operation), it took me a long time to work past those negative feelings in order to regain her and my happy memories with her. It made me actually feel like I had betrayed her a second time by letting her admittedly somewhat traumatic death overtake the deep love and all the cuddles that I had shared with this kindest of 'mature' ladies - and yet I had in my own pain shut away everything that had made her so lovable and all the precious memories we created together.

It was one of those key experiences that have taught me a lot; including that it is much more important to see my piggies as they measure their lives: in all the happy todays and love that we give them and not in their death because we can ultimately never choose what and when they die from. All we can do is make their passing as easy on them as possible whenever it happens but on the bottom line the many happy days we give our pets are what counts most for them.
I can still be very sad or upset over a passing and I still miss my Rianbow Bridge piggies all very much but I do no longer let my feelings of failure overtake me and allow them to run away with me because I know that whatever happens, in the main thing that counts for any piggy - a plain good daily everyday piggy life - I have not let them down. You can find that experience recounted in the grieving guide I have written for the forum (it has been linked into an earlier post in this guide). I am now able to spot them for what they are. If I have made a misjudgement, then I will try my best to not repeat it again and help others on here in a comparable situation but it will no longer allow it to rob me of that piggy.

However, I would still recommend that you seek trained volunteer help to talk it all through - for your own sake as well as for your beloved piggy's sake.
On here, we are after all only guinea pig owners and neither vets nor are we trained bereavement or mental health support staff. We can also only react to what you are saying but without direct access to your piggy or vets notes our own guesses are all based on the filter of your own perception.
 
I've rushed a piggy that was eating normally at 6 pm to the out of hours vets for pts/euthanasia at 2 am because they were grunting with severe pain despite stepping in with gut meds (for another of my piggies) straight away as soon as I noticed signs of bloating at around 9 pm.That was the fastest but no means only case where I had to pts on because of bloat on the same day; especially with frailer piggies.
However, bloat can be a primary issue but it can also be a secondary one caused by an issue outside the gut and pressing on it or radiating into it. Fitting is not uncommon in the later stages of multi-organ failure in a dying guinea pig. Unfortunately, nobody and no place is able to give you the definite answer you are craving. Searching for symptoms on the internet will not help because you are playing with a lot of jigsaw pieces that you do not even know whether they belong to the same jigsaw or not; you are much more likely to end up with an incorrect picture than not trying to fit only in what suits but is out of its own much larger medical context.

Something has very sadly gone desastrously wrong - but that is also not a normal reaction to an antibiotic or a painkiller and not one that has ever come up on here; in my experience there is usually an underlying illness or weakness for something like this to happen.
I would rather think that it was one of those 'cosmic bad luck' circumstances where several random factors combined with catastrophic results. It does occasionally happen and you (and your vet) are left wondering what the hell is going on. Occasionally you may find a possible explanation years later with the advance of veterinary medicine but more often you will never find the cause and have to just learn to live with it.

Instead tying yourself into tiny pretzels in order to answer the unanswerable try to concentrate on the special things
you and your beloved boy have shared and try not to allow your feelings of guilt and failure overtake everything.
I have done it once with an older piggy whose heart gave out in a necessary eye removal operation after a medical approach failed and the eye was starting to blow up; she'd been found dumped no longer young with some chronic unsightly eye issues due to an untreated eye infection. I'd adopted her because she was stuck in rescue not having any interest between her age and a gunky eye.
Anyway, I had been very fond of gentle Hafina. But because of my strong feelings of guilt (even though I would make exactly the same decision again and I had certainly not done anything wrong in opting for a make or break life-saving operation), it took me a long time to work past those negative feelings in order to regain her and my happy memories with her. It made me actually feel like I had betrayed her a second time by letting her admittedly somewhat traumatic death overtake the deep love and all the cuddles that I had shared with this kindest of 'mature' ladies - and yet I had in my own pain shut away everything that had made her so lovable and all the precious memories we created together.

It was one of those key experiences that have taught me a lot; including that it is much more important to see my piggies as they measure their lives: in all the happy todays and love that we give them and not in their death because we can ultimately never choose what and when they die from. All we can do is make their passing as easy on them as possible whenever it happens but on the bottom line the many happy days we give our pets are what counts most for them.
I can still be very sad or upset over a passing and I still miss my Rianbow Bridge piggies all very much but I do no longer let my feelings of failure overtake me and allow them to run away with me because I know that whatever happens, in the main thing that counts for any piggy - a plain good daily everyday piggy life - I have not let them down. You can find that experience recounted in the grieving guide I have written for the forum (it has been linked into an earlier post in this guide). I am now able to spot them for what they are. If I have made a misjudgement, then I will try my best to not repeat it again and help others on here in a comparable situation but it will no longer allow it to rob me of that piggy.

However, I would still recommend that you seek trained volunteer help to talk it all through - for your own sake as well as for your beloved piggy's sake.
On here, we are after all only guinea pig owners and neither vets nor are we trained bereavement or mental health support staff. We can also only react to what you are saying but without direct access to your piggy or vets notes our own guesses are all based on the filter of your own perception.
It's confusing about what happened because the symptoms of bloat that he didn't have especially I remember that his tummy was soft so it wasn't hard like a bloat would be.
I understand that fitting can happen in the later stages but what do you think about the rapid nerves on his back end that I felt before his first vet appointment? And then on a Friday evening when I cuddled him, it was the same rapid nerves but this time it was all over his body, I don't think this is a symptom of a bloat. It's strange that the rapid nerves was there on his back end but he was fine in himself but maybe he was poorly for a long time. The vet was confused about what was wrong with him as he could of just said it was a bloat but he didn't and I've been thinking about if it's worth having a chat with him about it because I wasn't thinking clearly last time I saw him so I didn't get the chance to ask proper questions but I feel bit awkward bothering him especially he might think it's silly over a guinea pig.
Thankyou for telling me your experience, it does help especially you did all you could and still your Guinea pig couldn't be saved no matter what you did. Once you see the signs it's usually sadly too late.
I will have a look at the link you sent.
Thanks.
 
Having just lost one of my own piggies I understand your grief, but sometimes there just isn’t an answer.
I also deal with bereavement in my work and it is important to seek help when you find yourself stuck in a loop.
Please take to heart some of the excellent advice you have been given.
One tip though. You say you are still feeling guilty and can’t forgive yourself, well, every time that thought comes into your mind either say or write ‘I forgive myself’.
You will find that one day you really mean it.
Holding you in my heart ♥️
Sorry to hear about your Guinea pig.
I will have a look at the links that have been sent to me.
Thankyou.
 
First off ((HUGS)), and I'm so sorry you went through this. You are clearly grieving and looking for answers. However, and I say this with kindness instead of condemnation, I don't think you are helping yourself by constantly sifting the internet looking for an 'answer' that will put things in perspective for you.

I don't think he passed because of the antibiotics. He was having symptoms before starting them. You can scour the internet and find tons of stories of pigs who were given antibiotics before passing away for the simple reason that sick pigs are more likely to be prescribed antibiotics AND sick pigs are more likely to pass away during the course of the illness. These two things are correlated but that does not equate to a cause. You giving him the antibiotic did not cause his death (I've given pigs sulfatrim several times, as have many other posters here.) You and the vet were both doing your best with the info you had at hand. Neither of you are to blame. Unfortunately, in spite of doing things right, sometimes there is a bad outcome and there's no blame to assign.

Unfortunately, you are unlikely to every know exactly what happened with your pig's condition. That's true for most of us when we lose pets. We have to learn to live with a certain amount of ambiguity. I get that it seems scary, that it seems like if you could just figure out a 'why' you would be able to guard against it in the future, but unfortunately that's not always the case.

It's normal to grieve a pet that you love, but I worry that you are eating yourself up with unwarranted guilt. Is there someone you can talk to to help you work through this? A parent or friend? A professional with some experience in dealing with grief (a poster above gave you some information on a Blue Cross line assisting with pet bereavement.) I promise you, processing your difficult feelings is going to lead to a better resolution that trying to chase clues on the internet. It's hard to face grief head on, but it's going to be the best way to heal.

Again, I'm so sorry you lost your piggie. Please be kind to yourself.
Thankyou for taking the time writing this.
Very strange that he became ill while having the medication, you'd think it would prevent whatever illness he had coming but I guess it wasn't the correct medication for targeting what illness he had. I really wish that it was investigated further then who knows he would still be here.
 
It's confusing about what happened because the symptoms of bloat that he didn't have especially I remember that his tummy was soft so it wasn't hard like a bloat would be.
I understand that fitting can happen in the later stages but what do you think about the rapid nerves on his back end that I felt before his first vet appointment? And then on a Friday evening when I cuddled him, it was the same rapid nerves but this time it was all over his body, I don't think this is a symptom of a bloat. It's strange that the rapid nerves was there on his back end but he was fine in himself but maybe he was poorly for a long time. The vet was confused about what was wrong with him as he could of just said it was a bloat but he didn't and I've been thinking about if it's worth having a chat with him about it because I wasn't thinking clearly last time I saw him so I didn't get the chance to ask proper questions but I feel bit awkward bothering him especially he might think it's silly over a guinea pig.
Thankyou for telling me your experience, it does help especially you did all you could and still your Guinea pig couldn't be saved no matter what you did. Once you see the signs it's usually sadly too late.
I will have a look at the link you sent.
Thanks.

Hi

I cannot say what you mean exactly with 'rapid nerves' but it points towards a possible underlying progressing neurological issue, which could have caused all the rest of the symptoms and decline. Without any post mortem (and even not necessarily then), it is impossible to say what has influenced what.
Let's just make it clear, the medication is pretty unlikely to be the primary cause of your boy's death. It can have interacted in some way or other but it has not killed your piggy directly.
Unfortunately for you, neurological problems in guinea pigs are about the least researched and known area of guinea pig medical care, with what is known pitifully minimal - and this on the background of guinea pigs being already badly under-researched compared to other common pets.

Please accept that I am not a vet and that I am getting very confused by all the different symptoms you are throwing constantly into the round. We simply CANNOT TELL YOU what exactly has happened and what has caused your piggy's death.

By the sound of it, it was likely just one of these 'out there' things that do not even have a name; and that it basically is neither your fault nor you vet's. You may at one point come across a description that fits all the symptoms and progression some years down the line but you may equally not if it was one of the rare 'mystery' issues of which there is quite a lot still out there; simply because veterinary medicine is still lagging behind human medicine and guinea pigs are coming in fairly at the tail end, when it comes to pets. We have come a long way over the last decade or so but that doesn't mean by any means that we know all that much yet.
This is my final word on this. What has happened, has not happened because you are a bad owner or have seen a bad vet. The answer is not there because the medical knowledge is not advanced enough.

Please accept that you obviously cannot stop obsessing over it. We are however not the right place for dealing with your acute mental health issues. We have done our best to point you in the right direction.

Should you not seek the help you urgently need for yourself and/or should you continue to ask us unanswerable medical questions we will unfortunately have to lock this thread and delete any further threads on the same subject because there is nothing more we can add - we just don't know and can't tell you what has happened any more clearly.
We are simply not equipped to get you out of the obsessive roundabout your mind is currently stuck on; you will need professional help for that. Your problem is not primarily a veterinary one; it is a mental health issue.
 
Hi

I cannot say what you mean exactly with 'rapid nerves' but it points towards a possible underlying progressing neurological issue, which could have caused all the rest of the symptoms and decline. Without any post mortem (and even not necessarily then), it is impossible to say what has influenced what.
Let's just make it clear, the medication is pretty unlikely to be the primary cause of your boy's death. It can have interacted in some way or other but it has not killed your piggy directly.
Unfortunately for you, neurological problems in guinea pigs are about the least researched and known area of guinea pig medical care, with what is known pitifully minimal - and this on the background of guinea pigs being already badly under-researched compared to other common pets.

Please accept that I am not a vet and that I am getting very confused by all the different symptoms you are throwing constantly into the round. We simply CANNOT TELL YOU what exactly has happened and what has caused your piggy's death.

By the sound of it, it was likely just one of these 'out there' things that do not even have a name; and that it basically is neither your fault nor you vet's. You may at one point come across a description that fits all the symptoms and progression some years down the line but you may equally not if it was one of the rare 'mystery' issues of which there is quite a lot still out there; simply because veterinary medicine is still lagging behind human medicine and guinea pigs are coming in fairly at the tail end, when it comes to pets. We have come a long way over the last decade or so but that doesn't mean by any means that we know all that much yet.
This is my final word on this. What has happened, has not happened because you are a bad owner or have seen a bad vet. The answer is not there because the medical knowledge is not advanced enough.

Please accept that you obviously cannot stop obsessing over it. We are however not the right place for dealing with your acute mental health issues. We have done our best to point you in the right direction.

Should you not seek the help you urgently need for yourself and/or should you continue to ask us unanswerable medical questions we will unfortunately have to lock this thread and delete any further threads on the same subject because there is nothing more we can add - we just don't know and can't tell you what has happened any more clearly.
We are simply not equipped to get you out of the obsessive roundabout your mind is currently stuck on; you will need professional help for that. Your problem is not primarily a veterinary one; it is a mental health issue.
Rapid nerves meaning that the nerves were basically beating hard as I could feel it if that makes sense or maybe pulses is the correct word to describe it. This was one of the symptoms along with runny nose & bit of coughs.
I didn't mean to annoy you as it sounds like you are really annoyed but you could of just ignored my post as I just wanted to see what people's experiences were and for people to tell me their experiences from my questions, I do know that people on here are not vets. I posted another thread because I had more questions that I wanted to ask that's all.
Don't worry I'm not going to post any more & I'm sorry to bother anyone.
 
I don't think anyone is annoyed. We just can't give you the concrete answer you're hoping for and I think we're just concerned that you get the support you need. Please, take care of yourself and be kind to yourself.
 
Please don’t stop posting.
People are trying to help but we’re not vets and with the best will in the world don’t have all the answers.
Sometimes talking to a real person helps.
Social media can only achieve so much but cannot replace a conversation.
Holding you in my heart ♥️
 
Rapid nerves meaning that the nerves were basically beating hard as I could feel it if that makes sense or maybe pulses is the correct word to describe it. This was one of the symptoms along with runny nose & bit of coughs.
I didn't mean to annoy you as it sounds like you are really annoyed but you could of just ignored my post as I just wanted to see what people's experiences were and for people to tell me their experiences from my questions, I do know that people on here are not vets. I posted another thread because I had more questions that I wanted to ask that's all.
Don't worry I'm not going to post any more & I'm sorry to bother anyone.

I am very sorry, but we have not ever had a single enquiry about 'rapid nerves' or that particular combination of symptoms in all the time I have been looking after this section; and that is quite literally tens of thousands of posts in this section alone.
Please also accept that looking at every single symptom on its own out of the overall context and order of appearance will not help you any further as many symptoms appear in different contexts. It just creates more confusion because you will get lots more irrelevant responses that do not apply to your case.

You won't get any more answers by starting new threads because nobody of us has the answers you are seeking; otherwise members would have posted any relevant experiences on this thread. Unfortunately, as a forum we cannot help you any further.

Please get the help for yourself that you need in order to learn to live without ever finding out what has happened. Our concern for your wellbeing is very real.
 
Please be assured that as a forum we are here to support you in your loss. We all know how hard it is to lose these furbabies.

We understand that you are full of questions and doubting everything, but this is all part of the grieving process. I'm afraid that your posts are looking for answers that we simply can't provide.

There are many stages to grief and the questioning and doubting phase can torment you with "what if's". This is why we have recommended that you speak to someone who is trained in dealing with pet bereavement to help you to process what has happened. We wish you well.
 
I'm so sorry for your loss.i feel you need to take up professional help,as mentioned in the above posts.grieving process is not easy.ive lost a few guinea pigs in quick succession.i just give them the best care whilst they are with me.i take comfort that loving them is the best gift my guinea pigs have given me.i wish you all the best for the future.you are very clearly a very caring owner.
 
I'm so sorry for your loss.i feel you need to take up professional help,as mentioned in the above posts.grieving process is not easy.ive lost a few guinea pigs in quick succession.i just give them the best care whilst they are with me.i take comfort that loving them is the best gift my guinea pigs have given me.i wish you all the best for the future.you are very clearly a very caring owner.
It's very difficult because I don't understand what happened. His symptoms wasn't that bad and he was given the clear yet some how he died. I know what others have said about the medication that it's not likely that it killed him because their Guinea pigs had the same medication that it didn't affect them but all Guinea pigs are different same as humans we are all different so maybe it affected him but I hope not. My mother said that she feels that it was the medication because he was jumping about fine before & after his first vet appointment in the week. It's very strange. I'm not saying for definite that it was the medication but it does seem rather odd how he went down hill quickly that's all.
Thankyou for your reply.
 
I’m so sorry you lost Alfie. The feelings of great loss of a beloved piggie is very hard to deal with. Most of us on the forum have been there. Part of grieving is a stage of “what if’s” we question why and what happened because we are trying to make sense of it emotionally. This stage will pass and over time you will accept his loss and instead of feeling great pain you will look back and have fond memories of your lovely boy. In the meantime try to be kind to yourself, give yourself time to come to terms with what’s happened, sometimes we just sadly don’t ever get those answers. Tare Care x
 
I’m so sorry you lost Alfie. The feelings of great loss of a beloved piggie is very hard to deal with. Most of us on the forum have been there. Part of grieving is a stage of “what if’s” we question why and what happened because we are trying to make sense of it emotionally. This stage will pass and over time you will accept his loss and instead of feeling great pain you will look back and have fond memories of your lovely boy. In the meantime try to be kind to yourself, give yourself time to come to terms with what’s happened, sometimes we just sadly don’t ever get those answers. Tare Care x
Thankyou for your kind message x
 
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