Interstitial cystitis - struggling to control it.

[yvette langford]

Oh and she is on a heavy dose of dog metacam twice a day 0.85ml x 2. This keeps the inflammation down. She is arthritic as well, so this is used for both purposes.

I tried to get my vet to prescribe the dog metacam, but she refused. She’s given us tramadol for now as apparently metacam and cartrophen aren’t supposed to be used together.

 

[Swissgreys]

I


I think it was a series of them early on to get the cartrophen working quickly and then once per month after that if she needed topping up. So far so good!

Re the Cystease, I have had quite a few piggies with bladder issues and the ones which have done the best are the ones who have been happy to be syringed extra water daily. My current girl gets cystease twice a day in a minimum of 7 ml of filtered water twice a day without fail, even if I am away I get someone else to do it. Its noticeable how if I dont do this (I experimented in the early days) her cystitis can recur. This just seems to keep the bladder working and flushed through.

She really enjoys it as well as it gives her extra cuddle time over the others. She takes each syringe from me now and practically sucks the water out!

See I think this is definitely part of the solution - extra hydration in the form of water (not more veg, but wet veg or water in a syringe) to help keep the bladder flushed.

 

[Wiebke]

I tried to get my vet to prescribe the dog metacam, but she refused. She’s given us tramadol for now as apparently metacam and cartrophen aren’t supposed to be used together.

Tramadol is also a (stronger) analgesic that is safe to use in guinea pigs suffering from higher chronic pain levels. it is more often used in guinea pigs with bad arthritis or with lymphoma when metacam is no longer doing the trick.

PS: May I just repeat a very crucial point that has been made in previous posts: Giving extra water means offering water by syringe to your guinea pig, as much as they are willing to drink on their own volition from your syringe in one go in order to create a large, bladder flushing pee. Piggies that are not good natural drinkers are more prone to developing bladder problems as bacteria and debris can build up in their bladder more easily.
However, like with humans, how much they want/need to drink to keep hydrated varies massively individually from not drinking at all to drinking a large bottle in a day. Not drinking doesn't mean that your piggy will necessarily end up with bladder stones or IC (it is just potentially contributing factor but never the cause of it) and it also doesn't mean that your piggy is any more at risk from kidney failure than a piggy that is drinking normally.
NEVER force any water down an unwilling piggy!

May I also make another crucial point: cartrophen is a stronger glucosamine based medication than cystease. Using glucosamine for sterile IC piggies where the walls of the urinary tract are affected seems to be key to managing the symptoms in connection with an analgesic (i.e. a painkiller-cum-anti-inflammatory).

Cartrophen is only just becoming used for IC piggies, so there is not yet much experience and no consensus of the ideal treatment yet. This will evolve over the next months/years and will eventually end up with standard recommendations for vets looking up the use in guinea pigs with sterile IC as has the use of sulfatrim/septrin/bactrim over baytril in urinary tract issues over the course of the last decade with sulfatrim now licensed for use in guinea pigs in the UK.

 

[yvette langford]

Tramadol is also a (stronger) analgesic that is safe to use in guinea pigs suffering from higher chronic pain levels. it is more often used in guinea pigs with bad arthritis or with lymphoma when metacam is no longer doing the trick.

PS: May I just repeat a very crucial point that has been made in previous posts: Giving extra water means offering water by syringe to your guinea pig, as much as they are willing to drink on their own volition from your syringe in one go in order to create a large, bladder flushing pee. Piggies that are not good natural drinkers are more prone to developing bladder problems as bacteria and debris can build up in their bladder more easily.
However, like with humans, how much they want/need to drink to keep hydrated varies massively individually from not drinking at all to drinking a large bottle in a day. Not drinking doesn't mean that your piggy will necessarily end up with bladder stones or IC (it is just potentially contributing factor but never the cause of it) and it also doesn't mean that your piggy is any more at risk from kidney failure than a piggy that is drinking normally.
NEVER force any water down an unwilling piggy!

May I also make another crucial point: cartrophen is a stronger glucosamine based medication than cystease. Using glucosamine for sterile IC piggies where the walls of the urinary tract are affected seems to be key to managing the symptoms in connection with an analgesic (i.e. a painkiller-cum-anti-inflammatory).

Cartrophen is only just becoming used for IC piggies, so there is not yet much experience and no consensus of the ideal treatment yet. This will evolve over the next months/years and will eventually end up with standard recommendations for vets looking up the use in guinea pigs with sterile IC as has the use of sulfatrim/septrin/bactrim over baytril in urinary tract issues over the course of the last decade with sulfatrim now licensed for use in guinea pigs in the UK.

Thank you Wiekb

Tramadol is also a (stronger) analgesic that is safe to use in guinea pigs suffering from higher chronic pain levels. it is more often used in guinea pigs with bad arthritis or with lymphoma when metacam is no longer doing the trick.

PS: May I just repeat a very crucial point that has been made in previous posts: Giving extra water means offering water by syringe to your guinea pig, as much as they are willing to drink on their own volition from your syringe in one go in order to create a large, bladder flushing pee. Piggies that are not good natural drinkers are more prone to developing bladder problems as bacteria and debris can build up in their bladder more easily.
However, like with humans, how much they want/need to drink to keep hydrated varies massively individually from not drinking at all to drinking a large bottle in a day. Not drinking doesn't mean that your piggy will necessarily end up with bladder stones or IC (it is just potentially contributing factor but never the cause of it) and it also doesn't mean that your piggy is any more at risk from kidney failure than a piggy that is drinking normally.
NEVER force any water down an unwilling piggy!

May I also make another crucial point: cartrophen is a stronger glucosamine based medication than cystease. Using glucosamine for sterile IC piggies where the walls of the urinary tract are affected seems to be key to managing the symptoms in connection with an analgesic (i.e. a painkiller-cum-anti-inflammatory).

Cartrophen is only just becoming used for IC piggies, so there is not yet much experience and no consensus of the ideal treatment yet. This will evolve over the next months/years and will eventually end up with standard recommendations for vets looking up the use in guinea pigs with sterile IC as has the use of sulfatrim/septrin/bactrim over baytril in urinary tract issues over the course of the last decade with sulfatrim now licensed for use in guinea pigs in the UK.

Thank you Wiekbe, I will definitely be encouraging more water. My piggie is on 0.5 tramadol twice a day and still squeaks.
do you know how long the cartrophen will take before all the squeaking stops.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you Wiekb

Thank you Wiekbe, I will definitely be encouraging more water. My piggie is on 0.5 tramadol twice a day and still squeaks.
do you know how long the cartrophen will take before all the squeaking stops.

If the squeaking continues after a week, I would contact your vet re. having another injection sooner. You and your vet are in new territory here so you have to go by trial and error. Sterile IC can affect piggies to very different degrees. In the worst cases, cartrofen can just bring a bigger amount of comfort but it may need more than one injection. It can be that a monthly injection is just a life-long maintenance dosage for your poor piggy but they may need more of it at the start.

 

[yvette langford]

If the squeaking continues after a week, I would contact your vet re. having another injection sooner. You and your vet are in new territory here so you have to go by trial and error. Sterile IC can affect piggies to very different degrees. In the worst cases, cartrofen can just bring a bigger amount of comfort but it may need more than one injection. It can be that a monthly injection is just a life-long maintenance dosage for your poor piggy but they may need more of it at the start.

Ok thank you x

 

[yvette langford]

Ok thank you x

Argh, why is nothing working?! Had the cartrophen injection on Tuesday, he’s on 0.5ml tramadol twice a day, 1ml cystease daily and oxbow urinary support one a day.
I’m in the process of making some barley water to syringe. He’s eating fine. Just in pain when toileting.The same amount of pain as he was at the start, hunched over and crying.
I saw another vet briefly and asked her to take a look at the x-rays. Asked what else could be the issue, she said maybe the muscles controlling the urethra are the problem. Has anyone heard of this? Is it fixable?

 

[Hogmex]

Hello, sorry to open an old thread but are the anti-biotics listed here helpful to IC if there isn't a sign of bacteria?

 

[Wiebke]

Hello, sorry to open an old thread but are the anti-biotics listed here helpful to IC if there isn't a sign of bacteria?

Hi

None of the medications and support products mentioned in this thread are antibiotics since they do not work against sterile IC, which is characterised by the absence/low load of bacteria. Please see a vet if your piggy is having red pees and is squeaking when peeing and pooing, and do not home treat on spec. Antibiotics and painkillers like metacam (or any generic brand names) are prescription-only medications (POMs) in the UK.

The symptoms for all problems in the urinary tract, whether that is a bacterial urine infection, a bacterial cystitis (bladder infection), a sterile interstitial cystitis (sterile IC, i.e. a non-bacterial infection of the walls of the urinary tract), a stone or sludge in the bladder or elsewhere in the urinary tract are all very similar. Problems in the penis shaft in boars or the reproductive tract in sows can also manifest with very similar symptoms. It needs a hands-on examination by a vet, especially to exclude the possibility of stones.
For more personalised support, please open your own thread in this section. We prefer not to have old threads revived by other people because it can cause confusion.

 

[Hogmex]

Thank you for the response, I understand replying to this old topic wasn't the best. Sorry.

Just to answer your post, the first and fifth posts mention taking anti-biotics and being on them at the time of the post about Interstitial cystitis (which I probably interpreted incorrectly)
I was asking the question because my piggie is being treated by a vet, who did suggest IC but without xray or a urine sample at the time he treated what I described and what he noticed when examining her bladder. Xrays were talked about( and probably up next) but they use a whiff of anaesthesia.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for the response, I understand replying to this old topic wasn't the best. Sorry.

Just to answer your post, the first and fifth posts mention taking anti-biotics and being on them at the time of the post about Interstitial cystitis (which I probably interpreted incorrectly)
I was asking the question because my piggie is being treated by a vet, who did suggest IC but without xray or a urine sample at the time he treated what I described and what he noticed when examining her bladder. Xrays were talked about( and probably up next) but they use a whiff of anaesthesia.

The antibiotics are at the discretion of your treating vet; they can in milder cases help suppress symptoms temporarily but too regular use can promote resistancy. Personally, I would not recommend their use for a diagnosed IC unless absolutely necessary because of other considerations and unless your vet decides that the benefit of their use will outweigh any other concerns re. over-use/resistancy in your specific case.

Licensed for guinea pigs in the UK are baytril (enrofloxacin) and sulfatrim (trimothoprim sulfamethoxazole); the latter is generally the preferred antibiotic for bacterial infections or the prevention thereof in case of a bladder stone removal in the urinary tract but both work for bacterial infections.


In order to locate stones etc. three dimensionally in the body, a second x-ray may have to be taken and the guinea pig may have in each case be placed in a somewhat awkward/unnatural position in order to achieve a clear x-ray of the area from different angles. A mild sedation will ease the process but it is not comparable with a full GA for an operation (of which the vast majority actually go without problems) and it should not worry you. Before sterile IC can be diagnosed (usually by default), all other potential problems with urinary tract need to be ruled out.
I would also like to point out that when you do your own online research, you will be automatically drawn to all the worst case scenarios and horror stories which do not reflect the reality - but whoever finds it interesting to post and read about a perfectly normal unspectacular recovery? They are usually just taken for granted. You always need to factor in this corrective when forming your opinions, like for example an unnecessary fear of GA as a result which can cause your piggy ultimately more pain and even their life at the very worst.
If you have issues with anxiety yourself, please stop doing your own research because it is like opening not just a can of worms but a whole cupboard of them and follow your vet's advice.

For any further questions or concerns please open your own personalised support thread for advice you are specifically in need of and for moral support from members. Otherwise any answers are going to be general, not knowing the background and specific aim of your questions. Thank you.
[HEADING=2][/HEADING]

 

[Hogmex]

like for example an unnecessary fear of GA as a result which can cause your piggy ultimately more pain and even their life at the very worst.
If you have issues with anxiety yourself, please stop doing your own research because it is like opening not just a can of worms but a whole cupboard of them and follow your vet's advice.


[HEADING=2][/HEADING]

It was actually the vet that was warning me of the possible dangers of "just a whiff" of GA(for the Xray) on a guinea pig.

So, what else am I supposed to do, when it's the vet giving me worst possible scenario, but look into other owners experiences?

 

[Wiebke]

It was actually the vet that was warning me of the possible dangers of "just a whiff" of GA(for the Xray) on a guinea pig.

So, what else am I supposed to do, when it's the vet giving me worst possible scenario, but look into other owners experiences?

Please open your own thread in this section with the proper background story, including the age, gender and any underlying issues, as well as how experienced your vet is with guinea pigs, so we have something to work with and a change give you appropriate, considered advice in full knowledge of what has been done, diagnosed (or not) and said.

Any vet (like any doctor) has to warn an owner before procedures of potential risks/negative reactions. If they have specific reasons for not wanting to do it for your piggy, then it would help us if you mentioned why exactly this has been ruled out in your specific case.

 

[Snowflake]

I’m glad she is improving. My boy also has potassium citrate twice daily. This makes his urine less acidic.x