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IC trouble

Little Ones

Little Ones

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My guinea pig, BB, has previously been diagnosed with IC. He's been given cystophan, loxicom, and gabapentin when the pain is quite significant. He generally stays on half a tablet once a day of the cystophan because once he comes off it entirely, he has pain. Right now, he's been having a lot of pain for about two weeks. We've upped the cystophan gradually to where now he's having a full tablet twice a day but it doesn't seem to be doing anything, he's also on both loxicom and gabapentin twice a day. He's still in pain, and he's peeing blood. Today and yesterday particularly, there was a fair bit of blood droplets in the cage.
Right now, I'm away at university and I'm going off what my mum is telling me about how he's doing. Because I am away, getting veterinary care for him isn't the easiest. If he needs to see a vet again about this, I will go back home and take him but I wanted to get opinions on here from those who have dealt with IC before. Surely, the cystophan should've helped by now? At least a bit? Should we wait a bit longer, or should he be going to the vet as soon as possible?
Thanks :)
 
Little Ones said:
My guinea pig, BB, has previously been diagnosed with IC. He's been given cystophan, loxicom, and gabapentin when the pain is quite significant. He generally stays on half a tablet once a day of the cystophan because once he comes off it entirely, he has pain. Right now, he's been having a lot of pain for about two weeks. We've upped the cystophan gradually to where now he's having a full tablet twice a day but it doesn't seem to be doing anything, he's also on both loxicom and gabapentin twice a day. He's still in pain, and he's peeing blood. Today and yesterday particularly, there was a fair bit of blood droplets in the cage.
Right now, I'm away at university and I'm going off what my mum is telling me about how he's doing. Because I am away, getting veterinary care for him isn't the easiest. If he needs to see a vet again about this, I will go back home and take him but I wanted to get opinions on here from those who have dealt with IC before. Surely, the cystophan should've helped by now? At least a bit? Should we wait a bit longer, or should he be going to the vet as soon as possible?
Thanks :)
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Hi

Glucosamine (the main active ingredient in cystophan) takes a while to build up and should be maintained at all times in IC piggies since it is the most effective medication; it is not a quick fix, unlike a quick working painkiller.
However, you can safely double the dosage for a few days and see whether that does the trick.

I have found with my own persistent IC piggies that upping the glucosamine is more effective in bringing an IC flare back under control than just upping the painkiller. It can take anything from 3 days in mild cases to a few weeks in more severe cases to bring a flare back under control. You will unfortunately experience more of these occasional flares; they are what is behind the 'interstitial' (i.e. recurring after a gap) in sterile interstitial cystitis.
 
Wiebke said:
Hi

Glucosamine (the main active ingredient in cystophan) takes a while to build up and should be maintained at all times in IC piggies since it is the most effective medication; it is not a quick fix, unlike a quick working painkiller.
However, you can safely double the dosage for a few days and see whether that does the trick.

I have found with my own persistent IC piggies that upping the glucosamine is more effective in bringing an IC flare back under control than just upping the painkiller. It can take anything from 3 days in mild cases to a few weeks in more severe cases to bring a flare back under control. You will unfortunately experience more of these occasional flares; they are what is behind the 'interstitial' (i.e. recurring after a gap) in sterile interstitial cystitis.
Click to expand...
He usually has half a tablet once a day, but has been on a full tablet twice a day for about 2 weeks now to try and get it under control. Is this a problem? Should I lower the dose? It seems to have gotten worse in the past day or two, for the last two weeks there has just been pain but now there is blood involved too. How long without improvement should we leave this before getting him re-checked at the vets?
 
Little Ones said:
He usuall has half a tablet once a day, but has been on a full tablet twice a day for about 2 weeks now to try and get it under control. Is this a problem? Should I lower the dose? It seems to have gotten worse in the past day or two, for the last two weeks there has just been pain but now there is blood involved too. How long without improvement should we leave this before getting him re-checked at the vets?
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Sorry, if he is already on a higher dosage and is getting worse despite that, then please make an appointment now. This is not good news and needs to be seen. Sorry about the situation. Things never happen conveniently, unfortunately.
 
Wiebke said:
Sorry, if he is already on a higher dosage and is getting worse despite that, then please make an appointment now. This is not good news and needs to be seen. Sorry about the situation. Things never happen conveniently, unfortunately.
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Okay, thank you!
 
Well, it’s not good news really.
Following my post, I got the soonest appointment I could with the vet but then had to cancel it because it ended up falling on my first day back at university, and it was a really full day of classes. We managed to get another appointment for just less than a week after, we had tried to get an emergency appointment for sooner but there wasn’t one available and we were told the issue could wait. After the appointment, BB was put on antibiotics in case it was a UTI, an X-ray wasn’t done because stones didn’t seem likely since he was overall well in himself and there was no sludge or calcium deposits or anything in his cage.
Its now been two weeks since then and we just had the follow up appointment today as there had been no change. A scan was done and turns out there is a bladder stone. There’s also been a 100 gram weight loss within the last two weeks. I’ve been in hospital with subcutaneous emphysema and a collapsed lung so I haven’t been around to syringe feed or weigh him to check how he was doing.
I don’t really know what to do now with the stone. The vet has given us pain relief and told us to think over the weekend. She said we can either manage the pain or we can do surgery but there’s a big risk of infection and more stones forming afterwards. I feel at at complete loss, Ive never dealt with stones before so I just don’t know what the best thing is. He’s only 3, not old at all, I just want to do whatever will allow him to live the longest and happiest life possible
 
Update: decided to book him in for the surgery to remove the bladder stone, it’ll be on the 8th November
 
Little Ones said:
Update: decided to book him in for the surgery to remove the bladder stone, it’ll be on the 8th November
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Hi

Very sorry for your accident. These things always happen at the worst possible time. And of course about the bad news that nobody wants to get. :(

Please step in with syringe feeding top up support now. The pain from the stone can cause major weight loss; the more you can keep the weight on, the better. Please switch to weighing once daily first thing in the morning so you can tailor your level of support for the day accordingly and have the most reliable day-to-day comparison.
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets (see chapter special diets. Bladder stone piggies can eat lettuce).

As long as the stone is still located in the bladder, then chances of a smooth recovery are actually not too bad but it very much depends on the operating vet and recovery nursing care.
The infection rate with bladder ops is actually on the low side, which is surprising for the location. The tables turn if the stone has passed into the urethra. Boars have an awkward inglenook in there where stones usually fetch up and with turns a comparatively straight forward operation into a high risk one.
Tips For Post-operative Care

Please contact your vets asap as a life-or-death emergency if your boy is suddenly very poorly. It usually means that the stone is blocking the urine flow, which then backs up into the kidneys with fatal consquences.
Emergency and Crisis Care as well as Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

Fingers very firmly crossed!
 
Wiebke said:
Hi

Very sorry for your accident. These things always happen at the worst possible time. :(

Please step in with syringe feeding top up support now. The pain from the stone can cause major weight loss; the more you can keep the weight on, the better. Please switch to weighing once daily first thing in the morning so you can tailor your level of support for the day accordingly and have the most reliable day-to-day comparison.
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets (see chapter special diets. Bladder stone piggies can eat lettuce).

As long as the stone is still located in the bladder, then chances of a smooth recovery are actually not too bad but it very much depends on the operating vet and recovery nursing care.
The infection rate with bladder ops is actually on the low side, which is surprising for the location. The tables turn if the stone has passed into the urethra. Boars have an awkward inglenook in there where stones usually fetch up and with turns a comparatively straight forward operation into a high risk one.
Tips For Post-operative Care

Please contact your vets asap as a life-or-death emergency if your boy is suddenly very poorly. It usually means that the stone is blocking the urine flow, which then backs up into the kidneys with fatal consquences.
Emergency and Crisis Care as well as Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

Fingers very firmly crossed!
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for this, this is all a massive reassurance. I wasn’t able to attend the appointment today myself so my mum took him for me, meaning I wasn’t able to ask everything I would usually ask regarding an operation, like survival rate, the vets opinion, etc. The risks were outlined very clearly though, the vet didn’t seem very optimistic regarding the surgery. Ellie is the vet dealing with this, so since she’s a guinea pig specialist I’m putting my trust in her. Best case would be that we’re able to have Simon do the op but it just doesn’t seem feasible with how booked up he always is and how soon we probably need the operation done. I’m worried that even waiting the 10 days till his operation date will be far too long. I just have to hope for the best, again thank you for the info, it’s very helpful and reassuring
 
Little Ones said:
Thank you so much for this, this is all a massive reassurance. I wasn’t able to attend the appointment today myself so my mum took him for me, meaning I wasn’t able to ask everything I would usually ask regarding an operation, like survival rate, the vets opinion, etc. The risks were outlined very clearly though, the vet didn’t seem very optimistic regarding the surgery. Ellie is the vet dealing with this, so since she’s a guinea pig specialist I’m putting my trust in her. Best case would be that we’re able to have Simon do the op but it just doesn’t seem feasible with how booked up he always is and how soon we probably need the operation done. I’m worried that even waiting the 10 days till his operation date will be far too long. I just have to hope for the best, again thank you for the info, it’s very helpful and reassuring
Click to expand...

Ellie Whitehead is a very experienced vet specialising in guinea pigs.
 
eileen said:
Ellie is very good,deals with alot of bladder stones.i would totally trust Ellie.I'm sorry you are going through this.
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Exactly, I would only trust either her, Simon or Kim with this. She wasn't pushing for the surgery though because of the associated risks, she wasn’t telling us not to do it though either, she didn’t lean to either side or recommend/suggest either option. I’m just hoping it all ends well
 
It's a difficult decision, but she has operated on one of my boars and it ended well.you could email Ellie and send her a list of questions ,she is usually very honest and direct.x
 
Wiebke said:
Ellie Whitehead is a very experienced vet specialising in guinea pigs.
Click to expand...
Yup, so he’s in the best hands really. I wouldn’t trust anyone aside from her or Simon & Kim for an operation like this. I’ve always been petrified of any of the boys getting bladder stones because I’ve heard in the past how risky the op can be, along with the reoccurrence of stones. I know she’ll look after him the best she can

eileen said:
It's a difficult decision, but she has operatedon one of my boars and it ended well.you could email Ellie and send her a list of questions ,she is usually very honest and direct.x
Click to expand...
I think operating would be better than not operating and just waiting for him to eventually need to be PTS, he deserves a chance. He’s been through so much in his little life, my heart hurts for him
 
Thank guys, this has reassured me so much. I have everything crossed that he doesn't get worse over the next 10 days
 
Little Ones said:
Yes, he’s seen a lot of our guinea pigs over the years, including BB
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Then you can try to ring the clinic first thing in the morning in the hope of bagging an emergency slot after the weekend. This service is only available for registered clients and should only be used in real emergencies that cannot wait.

In the meantime please read and follow the very detailed practical care advice in the links in my first post.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
If you get an emergency appointment with Simon there are emergency operating slots available too, if he feels surgery is needed quickly.
Click to expand...
That’s good to know, thank you!
The only thing is that if I get an emergency appointment, I won’t be able to get to Northampton quickly. I’ll have to take the train so I‘m looking at a 4 hour journey really and I know you can’t be fussy with the emergency appointments, you just take what’s available, not to mention I’ve just got out of hospital so that length of journey would be difficult. It might be worth ringing though, maybe sending the notes and X-ray over and seeing if Simon would do an operation without consultation first and if it would be any sooner than the 8th
 
Good luck. I’d be trying to get BB in sooner if you can. I hope BB is soon on the mend.
 
We’re going to call C&R tomorrow, hopefully we have some luck. BB is in pretty much constant pain, I’m absolutely terrified the stone will go into his urethra, I don’t know how common that is. Even just getting through the day feels like we just got lucky, and I’m so scared to even fall asleep in case something happens to him, he’s just in such agony. The loxicom and gabapentin just aren’t doing a thing :(
 
Managed to get him booked in for an emergency bladder stone removal with Simon on Thursday, we have to be there at 8:10 which is a problem for me, as the earliest train gets in at 9:15. It seems like I’m going to have to get the train the night before and stay overnight. I’ll figure it out (hopefully), but at least hes booked in sooner. Still feels like ages away but at least it’s sooner
 
Little Ones said:
Managed to get him booked in for an emergency bladder stone removal with Simon on Thursday, we have to be there at 8:10 which is a problem for me, as the earliest train gets in at 9:15. It seems like I’m going to have to get the train the night before and stay overnight. I’ll figure it out (hopefully), but at least hes booked in sooner. Still feels like ages away but at least it’s sooner
Click to expand...
Found some transport, so all is well and we’re ready for Thursday!
 
How do I know whether the stone has moved to his urethra? @Wiebke
He’s been in so much pain for the past few hours, literally screaming so loud. He’s on gabapentin, tramadol and loxicom but none of it is helping. The pain seems to be from him trying to poo, when he’s doing this small droplets of water are being ‘peed’ but I wasn’t sure whether this is enough to indicate whether the stone has moved.
Is there something I should look out for or something for me to feel?
 
If he’s in that much pain I’d take him back to the vets to be seen again. Maybe you could call Cat and Rabbit and get them in today. I know you’re going tomorrow but It must be so sad for you watching them in so much pain.
 
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