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Help! Face twitching/vibrating on one side!

A Guinea Pig

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Plopped my three-year-old piggy on the scale today and noticed her face vibrating! It is only on the left side of her head. It goes from the inside of her mouth in the gum to her lip and nose. She is not chattering her teeth or smelling anything. What is happening? She does have some pellet dust on her nose, but I don’t think that is related. She is still with me and all I have done is massage her face and nothing has happened.
 
Plopped my three-year-old piggy on the scale today and noticed her face vibrating! It is only on the left side of her head. It goes from the inside of her mouth in the gum to her lip and nose. She is not chattering her teeth or smelling anything. What is happening? She does have some pellet dust on her nose, but I don’t think that is related. She is still with me and all I have done is massage her face and nothing has happened.

Hi

It could be a neurological thing, which is something that is not at all researched in guinea pigs. As long as her weight is stable (i.e. she is eating normally) I would not worry.
 
Hi

It could be a neurological thing, which is something that is not at all researched in guinea pigs. As long as her weight is stable (i.e. she is eating normally) I would not worry.
Thank you for the information @Wiebke. It's still a bit concerning though because she had a hay poke a while back. (Head Tilt After Hay Poke) I don't know if those are related because there was a slight head tilt while it was healing. I believe head tilts can be neurological, right? Since her face has been vibrating, the top and bottom eyelids have joined in. Her weight was within 14 grams of last week though.
 
Thank you for the information @Wiebke. It's still a bit concerning though because she had a hay poke a while back. (Head Tilt After Hay Poke) I don't know if those are related because there was a slight head tilt while it was healing. I believe head tilts can be neurological, right? Since her face has been vibrating, the top and bottom eyelids have joined in. Her weight was within 14 grams of last week though.

Hi

The time to see a vet is when it is happening fairly regularly and you also have a good recording to show your vet. I can't see the hay poke connected to the head tilt and any potential neurological issues; that would be rather coincidence. Right now, there is not much you or a vet can do, to be honest.

PS: the difference between a full and an empty bladder is about 10g, just to put the weight difference into perspective.
The difference between pre-dinner and post-dinner is 30-40g - and that is also the normal daily weight swing over the course of 24 hours. That is why we speak of weight loss only from 50g onwards. ;)
 
Hi

The time to see a vet is when it is happening fairly regularly and you also have a good recording to show your vet. I can't see the hay poke connected to the head tilt and any potential neurological issues; that would be rather coincidence. Right now, there is not much you or a vet can do, to be honest.

PS: the difference between a full and an empty bladder is about 10g, just to put the weight difference into perspective.
The difference between pre-dinner and post-dinner is 30-40g - and that is also the normal daily weight swing over the course of 24 hours. That is why we speak of weight loss only from 50g onwards. ;)
I'll make sure to get a video. I'll keep monitoring her throughout the day and will provide an update if it stops. Thank you for the help. 💗🌷🐹
 
Update:

It has been three days since the twitching first began and it has not stopped. Since then it has traveled to her ear (still only on the right side) which was not seen in past videos.

I have weighed her daily (morning) and everything has been stable. The only change was by 20 grams.

Her eye (same as hay poke) has become slightly smaller due to the eyelid looking heavier. It is noticeable droopy on the bottom toward the nose. I have put some artificial tears from the emergency kit in her eye since noticing it. It looks a bit better, however, there is some of her normal eye fluid near the tip of the eye and up to the top of her eyelid.

She has developed the tiniest head tilt that is only noticeable when she is sitting still.

The biggest thing is that she is now deaf. I watched Saskia’s latest video of the clap test and decided to try it out on all three girls. The youngest two have reactions (ears moving) and can clearly hear it. My sick piggy is not phased at all and does not hear a thing. Previously, she used to notice the clap when I did it a few months ago. She can see just fine out her her left eye though.

I think she may have Calcified Bullia Syndrome. I am scheduling a vet appointment tomorrow for next week. 💗
 
Update:

It has been three days since the twitching first began and it has not stopped. Since then it has traveled to her ear (still only on the right side) which was not seen in past videos.

I have weighed her daily (morning) and everything has been stable. The only change was by 20 grams.

Her eye (same as hay poke) has become slightly smaller due to the eyelid looking heavier. It is noticeable droopy on the bottom toward the nose. I have put some artificial tears from the emergency kit in her eye since noticing it. It looks a bit better, however, there is some of her normal eye fluid near the tip of the eye and up to the top of her eyelid.

She has developed the tiniest head tilt that is only noticeable when she is sitting still.

The biggest thing is that she is now deaf. I watched Saskia’s latest video of the clap test and decided to try it out on all three girls. The youngest two have reactions (ears moving) and can clearly hear it. My sick piggy is not phased at all and does not hear a thing. Previously, she used to notice the clap when I did it a few months ago. She can see just fine out her her left eye though.

I think she may have Calcified Bullia Syndrome. I am scheduling a vet appointment tomorrow for next week. 💗

All the best.
 
More updates!

I had to go out of town for a week so the appointment was for the next few days after since she had no emergency symptoms. I would like to note that the vet's office was booked up.

We took the piggy to our usual exotic vet to get looked at a week later. She had developed a very cloudy and red eye so I rescheduled the appointment to an earlier date (I had to wake up and call them at 7 for the past few days looking for an open check-up or dropped one🥲). I thought she had an ulcer cornea, and the veterinarian confirmed my suspicion. She was prescribed an Ofloxacin Ophthalmic Solution .3% for ten days. It seems to be working very well with me dropping some in her eye every two hours during the day. I had also been giving her Terramycin every morning since she developed it from our emergency kit. I brought it along with me for her exam and we were told to continue it along with the eye drops until her eye healed.

I brought up the topic of Calcified Bulla syndrome to the exotic vet. An X-ray would cost $175 (which I was fine with). She told us that if my piggy had it or not, there was nothing that we could do. We basically just have to treat the problems as they occur. So, more likely than not, she does have it.
 
The eye drops and Tyrimaicin seems to be still working great. It's a small yellow circle in the center of her eye now (used to be a literal dent in her eye 🤷‍♀️) and is still a bit larger than her other one with a red ring. It's definitely healing though!

She seems really tired all the time now. Out of six hideouts, she is always in the same one (which is fine). It feels like all she does all day is sleep. Due to her being deaf (the majority of the reason) and her eyes hurting which might make them close when she sleeps, I feel it definitely is more calming. It also might be from the Calcified Bulla (allegedly since I was told it is very very likely she does). The pads on her feet are also turning just the slightest bit pinker due to the lack of mobility. Thoughts?

Her weight has also dropped by now 50 grams in the last month (was around 40, and just changed to 50 this morning). I read through all the guides I found on the forum. She just got checked a few days ago and when I brought it up to the vet, there was no definite answer. I've just been following the topping-up/support-feeding part of the article here since this morning with Emeraid.

She had some softer poop yesterday as well so I’m cutting off the veggies for the next couple of days (read that guide also). That could contribute to the loss of weight.

Also, thank you so much @Wiebke for all the help. It means the world to me. 💗
 
The eye drops and Tyrimaicin seems to be still working great. It's a small yellow circle in the center of her eye now (used to be a literal dent in her eye 🤷‍♀️) and is still a bit larger than her other one with a red ring. It's definitely healing though!

She seems really tired all the time now. Out of six hideouts, she is always in the same one (which is fine). It feels like all she does all day is sleep. Due to her being deaf (the majority of the reason) and her eyes hurting which might make them close when she sleeps, I feel it definitely is more calming. It also might be from the Calcified Bulla (allegedly since I was told it is very very likely she does). The pads on her feet are also turning just the slightest bit pinker due to the lack of mobility. Thoughts?

Her weight has also dropped by now 50 grams in the last month (was around 40, and just changed to 50 this morning). I read through all the guides I found on the forum. She just got checked a few days ago and when I brought it up to the vet, there was no definite answer. I've just been following the topping-up/support-feeding part of the article here since this morning with Emeraid.

She had some softer poop yesterday as well so I’m cutting off the veggies for the next couple of days (read that guide also). That could contribute to the loss of weight.

Also, thank you so much @Wiebke for all the help. It means the world to me. 💗

Hi

I m glad that the eye drops are working well.

I am very sorry that her health is now clearly affected and is just about starting to decline but it is only just the very tipping point of the balance so there is not yet anything for your vet to intervene because it is not an acute infection. Is she on painkillers nd could you see whether upping them a little would perk her up again - in which case she may need a higher level. That is about the only way we can ask a piggy whether they hurt and feel bad because they hurt.

Guinea pigs cannot tell you that they have an earache/ headache but in your case, the soft poos are simply from her not eating hay as much as she should before you started supplementing and not from a tummy upset so please do no withdraw any fresh food.
When it comes to symptoms, you cannot see them in isolation but always have to see them in context. The supplementing of extra fibre should help with the poo issue and the poos should be hopefully look normal again by tomorrow. Make sure that she has softer hay within reach and change the bedding in her area.

As you are in the USA you may be able to get flamazine cream for the feet. Because it contains a mild antibiotic, it has been reclassed as a prescription-only medication in the UK and is no longer freely available over here.
Use it as rarely, sparingly and thinly as possible and only when you absolutely need to because the more you cream, the more you soften the soles and the more you promote bugs getting in. The harder skin of the soles is part of the immune system but if she is sitting a lot in her pee and poo, then it is a very beleaguered part of the immune system. It is a really delicate balance act for you.
Change her bedding twice daily and also offer water; make sure that she has hay within reach.

PS: You may want to get some cheap vetbed for dogs and cut it into smaller pads for the bedding area which are dead easy to change regularly and to wash/dry quickly.

The practical care tips in this guide here also work for ill and post-op piggies that are not moving around much: Looking After Guinea Pigs With Limited or No Mobility
 
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I would like to say that she is now doing so much better! Her eating and weight have improved with her Emeraid along with the eye healing up. Her feet also look vastly better since she does not spend all day hiding anymore and the cage is being spot-cleaned twice a day. Nothing is back to normal by any means, but it’s a significant improvement.

I am emailing the vet office tomorrow morning as it will be day ten of her eye meds and it's still not healed up at all. The eye looks way better than it did before we started, however it is still cloudy and enlarged. Hopefully, they will just tell us to continue with the eye drops or Terramycin so that we don't have to go back in. When I email them, should I ask if the eye ulcer is related to the Calcified Bulla? I saw that that was one of the symptoms in the forum support guides. Could the bacteria from in the ear be in the eye also causing this to last longer? I have no understanding about stuff like that.

Thank you 💗💗💗
 
I would like to say that she is now doing so much better! Her eating and weight have improved with her Emeraid along with the eye healing up. Her feet also look vastly better since she does not spend all day hiding anymore and the cage is being spot-cleaned twice a day. Nothing is back to normal by any means, but it’s a significant improvement.

I am emailing the vet office tomorrow morning as it will be day ten of her eye meds and it's still not healed up at all. The eye looks way better than it did before we started, however it is still cloudy and enlarged. Hopefully, they will just tell us to continue with the eye drops or Terramycin so that we don't have to go back in. When I email them, should I ask if the eye ulcer is related to the Calcified Bulla? I saw that that was one of the symptoms in the forum support guides. Could the bacteria from in the ear be in the eye also causing this to last longer? I have no understanding about stuff like that.

Thank you 💗💗💗

Hi

The eye definitely needs re-checking again but sorry, it's not a question we have any experience with on here and there is no comparable case we have come across. You can ask your vets as to whether it could be connected with a calcified bulla but they may likely not have heard of it. Was the eye enlarged before or as a result of the infection?

Most enlarged eyes are the result of a retrobulbar abscess (generally a root abscess in the upper premolars or molars) pushing the eye out as the weakest place for the pressure of the growing abscess to go - but this is not the case with you.
Glaucoma is very rare in guinea pigs and usually comes with structural changes to the eye (hardening of the eyeball).

Things can get through the nasal passages into the eye area (hence the mucus crusts in the eye from untreated URIs) but the eyeball it itself is a naturally highly protected walled-off organ where infection cannot get into easily and is very hard to treat unless an injury has opened it or a long term untreated infection or an cataract in the lens leaking through may eventually have found a way in.
But that is really something that only an experienced vet can consider. I quite simply don't have the necessary medical and anatomical background to know whether I am connecting the right things or not.

I am wishing you all the best. It is great that things are better.
 
The eye definitely needs re-checking again but sorry,
I will absolutely do that then.

it's not a question we have any experience with on here and there is no comparable case we have come across.
Would it be useful if I asked the American guinea pig forum if they have ever seen it?

Was the eye enlarged before or as a result of the infection?
No, her eyes were perfect besides a hay poke in the same eye a while back.

Glaucoma is very rare in guinea pigs and usually comes with structural changes to the eye (hardening of the eyeball).

unless an injury has opened it or a long term untreated infection or an cataract in the lens leaking through may eventually have found a way in.
I'll add if any of these things could be it in the email. Also, I guess the cornea looks a bit scratched.

I quite simply don't have the necessary medical and anatomical background to know whether I am connecting the right things or not.
My piggy has stumped the all-knowing, all-mighty, all-powerful Wiebke! 😱 Not that you could ever diagnose anything, but you have given me more information about this problem than I would ever be able to find by myself.

Here is a photo. I don't know why I did not prove one earlier. The camera made the red tint around the iris nonexistent, so keep in mind that's there.
 

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I will absolutely do that then.


Would it be useful if I asked the American guinea pig forum if they have ever seen it?


No, her eyes were perfect besides a hay poke in the same eye a while back.


I'll add if any of these things could be it in the email. Also, I guess the cornea looks a bit scratched.


My piggy has stumped the all-knowing, all-mighty, all-powerful Wiebke! 😱 Not that you could ever diagnose anything, but you have given me more information about this problem than I would ever be able to find by myself.

Here is a photo. I don't know why I did not prove one earlier. The camera made the red tint around the iris nonexistent, so keep in mind that's there.

I am very sorry; that doesn't look OK. It needs proper professional looking at it and feeling it. :(

Diagnosing is not like cherry picking single clues and then making a beeline for the worst possible case; it is much more like finding a shared context for all clues present, and preferably the one with the least twisting around and introducing new conditions. That is how vets and doctors work; accepting what you don't know is important because jumping to the wrong conclusion is usually worse than not coming to a conclusion. Diagnosing is much more like detective work than you'd expect. What is the biggest problem with doing personal online research is usually the lack background knowledge of how things can only fit together in certain ways but not in others.

If I can't find the full or right context then I make that clear. Personally, I'd rather see a general vet who is upfront about their limits, but willing to ask/research than an exotics vet who masks their lack of specific knowledge. I go by forum and personal experience but I don't have any formal medical background, nor have I ever pretended to have it. When give advice, then it is something I have seen successfully done by a vet so I know it is OK. What I have is a fairly decent working knowledge after several tens of thousands of questions; but that is a very different animal to being a medical expert.

And no, I am definitely not all-knowing nor would I ever want to be almighty or all powerful. I am decidedly not a glory hound and find these kind of remarks personally uncomfortable.
The latter descriptions are an open invitation for abuse unless you are very, very careful about what you are doing at all times and keep questioning yourself, your motivations and your methods constantly. I respect professional knowledge and deeply mistrust power and those who enjoy wielding it.

Which is one reason why this forum is still going, unlike most of the many others it started out with in pre-social media times. The forum is not about me playing God or Guru. It is all about helping others without the need for personal glory or playing power games and turf wars within our limitations; we are not an alternative to vets.
I have only taken on the leading role to keep this section from being taking over by wannabe experts and divas in search of a ready-made audience - the forum has been rather irresistable for a certain type of person and we had need to send a strong signal over the years.

The forum is essentially and most emphatically not about me but it is about a whole community where we all support each other. It is firstly about guinea pigs and about their owners; to provide ongoing coherent support and to prevent them becoming confused or trampled over in internal turf wars. This section is not here as a free for all to show off with their own knowledge of every possible obscure complication but to focus on on the poster and their questions and needs. But in order to do that and do keep doing that, I had to provide clear leadership.
 
This photo is 1000 times better

If you are lucky, the dullness is just the last the last stage of the healing process but it doesn't explain the swelling. it is difficult to sa whether two different things are going on or not.
 
Quick question, does anyone know why the other guinea pigs are so interested in her eye? They look to biting, smelling, eating, or licking her eye or eyelid. We have yet another vet check scheduled for this week, and the eye is yet to even remotely look better.
 
I don't know if it's relevant but on a couple of occasions when I've had an injured finger or hand my boys have been very attentive to the area. They have been wanting to lick/groom the area affected. Once when I had a small cut Master Boris whipped the scab off and ate it before I could stop him 🤢
 
Quick question, does anyone know why the other guinea pigs are so interested in her eye? They look to biting, smelling, eating, or licking her eye or eyelid. We have yet another vet check scheduled for this week, and the eye is yet to even remotely look better.

They know the eye is injured and are trying to help her
 
One of my piggies had a permanently blocked tear duct and her friend would clean her eye whenever it became a little crusty. Lovely how they care for their companions.
 
I don't know if it's relevant but on a couple of occasions when I've had an injured finger or hand my boys have been very attentive to the area. They have been wanting to lick/groom the area affected. Once when I had a small cut Master Boris whipped the scab off and ate it before I could stop him 🤢
And their slaves.......❤️
 
Forgot to update this thread, my bad. She finally got in to see the vet on Tuesday.

The prescription included one drop of Tobramycin along with one drop of artificial tears every two hours during the day in the affected eye.

She also was having issues with her poop which the vet suspected to be somewhat due to stress. She recommended I give Benebac and Emeraid until it returns to normal.

For pain and inflammation, I am to give .26ml of Metacam by mouth once a day (I don't know if it is cat or dog).

Her recheck is scheduled for next Tuesday.
 
I posted that last one on accident before I was done typing. Did not mean to have two separate comments.

I could not find any information online whatsoever about how CBS causes eye ulcers, just that it does. I asked Saskia from LA Guinea Pig Rescue and she said in short, the syndrome affects the facial muscles which reduces the guinea pigs' ability to blink. This prevents the eye from staying moist. This can be observed by tapping the eye and looking for a blink reflex.

Saskia recommends Terramycin to heal the ulcers. It is what I keep in my emergency kit for things like hay poke until the piggy can be seen by a vet. We originally used it with the first vet, but the second one we saw recently does not like eye creams. She said to stop using it along with the eye drops (which was her original prescription) and to instead only use the eye drops.

The problem with this is, that her eye is going to stay like that (lack of an ability to blink), I’m worried the ulcer is going to become chronic. The vet said this might be the root of the problem and we can discuss it at the next visit what to do going forward if it has not healed up.

She also has a slight head tilt which is from one eye not having the same vision as the other. She is relying on the other one more.

While at the exam, her molars were checked and came back perfect.


Total Vist Cost:

Exotic Pet Exam: 78
Tobramycin: 36
Metacam: 23

Total: 137

Besides the eye, everything else is normal. She just got some floor time with her friends and was running around like crazy! 💗
 
She's gone down hill. I've never seen such a bad head tilt anywhere. I weighed her today and even with 5 syringes (60 ml) a day and oats she has lost more and has to practically lay on her side on the scale. She can walk and run with her head dragging on the ground and can change directions only slowly without falling on her side to then kick her legs and get up. 😢 At her last check on Tuesday her eye looked sooo good. My mom came to see her and we think that next time she's at the vet (three days) we just get more pain meds to keep her comfortable.
 
Went to the vet an hour ago. I'm super sad about the service. I was told that I needed three different pain medications and when I asked why we didn't just need Metacam she told me “Oh you we could just do that”. Like what? Then she said we could remove her eye with surgery since it has not been able to heal. So I told her I was not doing that because she was not going to survive surgery at all. And she was like “Oh you that's definitely a possible complication”. So then she said we should try a whole course with multiple antibiotics for an ear infection. WE HAVE ALREADY BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH CBS BY THREE VETS NOW. So I obviously said no told her that and got the pain meds. I'm literally just keeping her alive at this point. She is laying in a litter pan staring at me right now as she eats her softened pellets. I am genuinely so annoyed right now. She even gave me 5 months worth of .25 ml a day of Metacam. I hate to be a downer and all with an attitude like this and think that way, but I don’t think she is going to live for another 5 months! She has lost 150 grams and I’m support feeding her 7 syringes a day. I’ve read through the guides on terminally ill guinea pigs and when to say good bye, but this still sucks.
 
I’ve just got one question, how did she get this? Was she bred with it? Is it from a URI three years ago? Did she get it from just being in her cage?
 
I’ve just got one question, how did she get this? Was she bred with it? Is it from a URI three years ago? Did she get it from just being in her cage?
Do you mean CBS as in calcified bulla syndrome? Is that what you're asking how she got it?
 
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