Guinea pig getting worse on Baytril

[posthistorytocome]

Have been reading the board as a non-member for a while and would so appreciate some of your wisdom here.

My GP1 has a suspected UTI. He started with pain on peeing/passing stool on Wednesday, so we went to the vet on Thursday and came home with 7 days' worth of Baytril, Metacam and Fibreplex. A couple of days into the meds regime I noticed his pee stains were now pink. He seems to be steadily losing small amounts of weight - was around 1.16kg on Thursday and now around 1.1kg. His stools have also gone very small. He is still eating on his own, though given the weight issue I mashed up some pellets yesterday and today with water which he gobbled down with gusto (though am worried about his teeth overgrowing now!), and I'm also syringing water every now and then. He's still in pain when peeing. He appears his usual self otherwise - curious, lively, confident, making his contented 'going about my day' noises.

My plan is to call the vet again on 19/07 if he hasn't shown any improvement. Is this reasonable or can it take several days for antibiotics to kick in? When would you usually expect to see improvement? Should I be asking for Septrin or do we need to go straight for an xray? The vet said they couldn't feel anything in his abdomen, though I know that doesn't mean much.

I really love this little pig, can't really believe he could be in danger. I also dread to think what it would do to his brother as they're so bonded. They are almost 2.

 

[posthistorytocome]

N.B. He is now attacking a damp little gem

 

[weepweeps]

Hello and welcome to the forum. It does take a few days for the antibiotics to kick in. I have a piggy on antibiotics at the moment (not Baytril) and he has definitely lost his appetite. He’s losing weight so I’m syringe feeding him to keep his weight stable until he has finished them. Then I hope he will start to eat more. . If you are worried about your piggy or they are behaving differently then I’d get them seen at the vets. Good luck. I hope he feels better soon.

 

[posthistorytocome]

Aw, sorry to hear about your little one! Hope he gets his appetite back asap. Thanks, I'll keep a close eye on mine, but good to know the antibiotics may yet kick in.

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

Hi @posthistorytocome I would ask for an xray/scan, it is possible he might have a bladder stone. A piggy of mine recently had similar symptoms which turned out to be a stone. It has now been removed and he is doing great. Hopefully your piggy doesn't have a stone but it is worth ruling it out x

 

[Piggies&buns]

In addition, don’t worry about teeth overgrowing - it doesnt happen immediately (and if he is still eating some hay for himself them the risk is lower) - stopping weight loss and making sure he gets enough food is the immediate issue

I hope he is ok

 

[posthistorytocome]

Thank you, both! I'll be sure to keep feeding him.

Glad to hear a positive story after surgery, too, @Pound Shilling & Pig.
Sorry, this isn't want anyone wants to think about at lunchtime, but the vet cleaned his genitals as they were covered in white 'sludge'. I have had a look since and the sludge is still there. Should I be cleaning it regularly while he's ill?

Poor piggies being ill in this weather! And of course they insist on holing up in warm hideys (now removed + ice bottle/damp towel added!).

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

Thank you, both! I'll be sure to keep feeding him.

Glad to hear a positive story after surgery, too, @Pound Shilling & Pig.
Sorry, this isn't want anyone wants to think about at lunchtime, but the vet cleaned his genitals as they were covered in white 'sludge'. I have had a look since and the sludge is still there. Should I be cleaning it regularly while he's ill?

Poor piggies being ill in this weather! And of course they insist on holing up in warm hideys (now removed + ice bottle/damp towel added!).

Their instinct is to hole up to avoid both preditors and heat. Their wild ancestors would have holed up in rock crevices and mini caves to keep cool

 

[weepweeps]

I’ve never had to clean my boars so I can’t advise about that. Sorry.

 

[Qualcast&Flymo]

Thank you, both! I'll be sure to keep feeding him.

Glad to hear a positive story after surgery, too, @Pound Shilling & Pig.
Sorry, this isn't want anyone wants to think about at lunchtime, but the vet cleaned his genitals as they were covered in white 'sludge'. I have had a look since and the sludge is still there. Should I be cleaning it regularly while he's ill?

Poor piggies being ill in this weather! And of course they insist on holing up in warm hideys (now removed + ice bottle/damp towel added!).

What does the sludge feel like to the touch? Is it powdery or grainy, or sticky?

 

[Wheekallweek]

Hhmmm, could the sludge be indicative of bladder sludge, possibly a stone? Might be worth a chat with your vet about checking for those.

 

[posthistorytocome]

Thanks, everyone!
They have several hiding spaces left so hopefully feeling quite secure (you're quite right though!). Thankfully he's always been a very calm, confident pig so is bearing all the syringing and being picked up many times a day angelically.

The sludge is quite gritty and the smell isn't the best, tbh. I've given him a couple of bum dips with Gorgeous Guineas shampoo (obviously not in sensitive areas).

Yes, I think definitely if things are the same tomorrow I'll ask for more investigation. Poor brave poppet.

 

[Qualcast&Flymo]

The sludge is quite gritty and the smell isn't the best, tbh. I've given him a couple of bum dips with Gorgeous Guineas shampoo (obviously not in sensitive areas).

Yes, I think definitely if things are the same tomorrow I'll ask for more investigation. Poor brave poppet.

It does sound like bladder sludge, that grittiness. Being quite gritty it would be rough on the bladder walls and make peeing painful, but at least he can pee it out. Only an xray would determine whether the calcium sludge had started to form into a stone though.
While deciding/waiting on what to do, I would be inclined to make sure he had plenty of water and wet veg to keep flushing out any sludge. Also supplement his food with glucosamine to re-line the bladder walls (Feliway Cystease is a common brand for this). And also, have a look at the recommended diet thread to make sure he isnt eating too much high calcium veg.

Sending healing vibes x

 

[posthistorytocome]

It does sound like bladder sludge, that grittiness. Being quite gritty it would be rough on the bladder walls and make peeing painful, but at least he can pee it out. Only an xray would determine whether the calcium sludge had started to form into a stone though.
While deciding/waiting on what to do, I would be inclined to make sure he had plenty of water and wet veg to keep flushing out any sludge. Also supplement his food with glucosamine to re-line the bladder walls (Feliway Cystease is a common brand for this). And also, have a look at the recommended diet thread to make sure he isnt eating too much high calcium veg.

Sending healing vibes x

Thanks very much. Will get some Cystease delivered and keep on with the liquids.

 

[Free Ranger]

The forum recommends limiting food pellets to 1 tbsp per pig per day and filtering water to remove excess calcium if you live in a high calcium area. This is the thing to hang on to if you are worried about calcium and it has made quite a difference to us although one of my girls still occasionally gets gritty pee. I also upped the number of water bottles and put them right next to hideys and near the pellets to encourage plenty of drinking. You might not necessarily have a stone at this point - if you can just keep everything flushing through. Don't force him to drink syringe water though - they can inhale and choke.

Battered urinary tracts are more prone to picking up infections so you should complete your antibiotic course. An x-ray might well be offered next time - my vet doesn't anaesthetise for x-ray, they just swaddle piggy firmly in a towel. GA is more risk for piggy and more expensive for the owner.

We also use a glucosamine food supplement which helps both my arthritic boy and also my gritty pee girl as the same thing supports stiff joints and battered bladders! We actually use oxbow joint support biscuits (90mg/bic) and gritty Louise gets half a one for maintenance

Good luck poor gritty little chap x

 

[posthistorytocome]

The forum recommends limiting food pellets to 1 tbsp per pig per day and filtering water to remove excess calcium if you live in a high calcium area. This is the thing to hang on to if you are worried about calcium and it has made quite a difference to us although one of my girls still occasionally gets gritty pee. I also upped the number of water bottles and put them right next to hideys and near the pellets to encourage plenty of drinking. You might not necessarily have a stone at this point - if you can just keep everything flushing through. Don't force him to drink syringe water though - they can inhale and choke.

Battered urinary tracts are more prone to picking up infections so you should complete your antibiotic course. An x-ray might well be offered next time - my vet doesn't anaesthetise for x-ray, they just swaddle piggy firmly in a towel. GA is more risk for piggy and more expensive for the owner.

We also use a glucosamine food supplement which helps both my arthritic boy and also my gritty pee girl as the same thing supports stiff joints and battered bladders! We actually use oxbow joint support biscuits (90mg/bic) and gritty Louise gets half a one for maintenance

Good luck poor gritty little chap x

Thank you sorry to hear about your lovely girl, sounds like she's getting a lot of TLC from you though.
Cystease will be here tomorrow and yes, will try to avoid GA!

Do you think blending hay, carrots and water would be ok? (If not totally unpalatable!) I do see him eating some hay and his weight has been stable for the last 48hrs, but I'm guessing that is because of the mashed pellets and Fibreplex.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you sorry to hear about your lovely girl, sounds like she's getting a lot of TLC from you though.
Cystease will be here tomorrow and yes, will try to avoid GA!

Do you think blending hay, carrots and water would be ok? (If not totally unpalatable!) I do see him eating some hay and his weight has been stable for the last 48hrs, but I'm guessing that is because of the mashed pellets and Fibreplex.

If he is getting enough mushed pellets or critical care syringe feed to keep his weight stable, then you don’t need mash hay, carrots and water together but I would also think it rather difficult. Carrots will probably be too hard to blend and I wouldn’t think hay would mush down enough. Plus, for bladder piggies, avoiding root veg such as carrots is best

 

[posthistorytocome]

If he is getting enough mushed pellets or critical care syringe feed to keep his weight stable, then you don’t need mash hay, carrots and water together but I would also think it rather difficult. Carrots will probably be too hard to blend and I wouldn’t think hay would mush down enough. Plus, for bladder piggies, avoiding root veg such as carrots is best

Ah ok, thanks! Currently rotating cucumber, pepper, tomato, little gem and celery, will cut out the carrot (is it to do with the sugar encouraging bacteria?). Also offering them some oat readigrass from time to time as it's apparently more calorific? My other GP shouldn't gain any weight though - a rotund little chap

 

[Free Ranger]

I think some people just offer dry oats! But if your vet stocks a particular type of recovery syringe food you might find that goes down well rather than mashing pellets. Some will just eat it from a bowl. Careful about the tomato… the acid can affect the gums and lips. We do cucumber and pepper and lettuce every day, but the rest is rotated. Fresh grass if you can find some without any risk of dog pee is very tempting and keeps the teeth down like hay does. But of course, it depends how urban you are!

 

[posthistorytocome]

I think some people just offer dry oats! But if your vet stocks a particular type of recovery syringe food you might find that goes down well rather than mashing pellets. Some will just eat it from a bowl. Careful about the tomato… the acid can affect the gums and lips. We do cucumber and pepper and lettuce every day, but the rest is rotated. Fresh grass if you can find some without any risk of dog pee is very tempting and keeps the teeth down like hay does. But of course, it depends how urban you are!

Mine are both fussy and turn up their snub noses at plain oats 'none of that ultra-processed food, thank you very much', they plaintively intone. Good to know about the tomato.
He has completely gone off cucumber but went mad for some very fibrous grass (well washed). This prompted a truly spectacular pooing session where they looked much more normal (not tiny and dry as in previous days), but which clearly had him in pain, poor love.
Just waiting for the vet to get back to me as asked for another appointment yesterday. Bracing myself for the news that he needs surgery tbh. On the bright side, the vet is apparently specialised in small animals - does anyone know whether that means rodents or rather cats and dogs (as opposed to say, horses)?

 

[Free Ranger]

Small animals would say rodents / rabbits to me.

I've only experienced straightforward UTI and/or stones. We've had a bit of grit but not enough to warrant a 'bladder flush' procedure. Great news about the grass - it's all very sparse here at the moment and my pigs seem to be blaming us rather than nature. Thanks a bunch, heatwave!

 

[posthistorytocome]

Small animals would say rodents / rabbits to me.

I've only experienced straightforward UTI and/or stones. We've had a bit of grit but not enough to warrant a 'bladder flush' procedure. Great news about the grass - it's all very sparse here at the moment and my pigs seem to be blaming us rather than nature. Thanks a bunch, heatwave!

Gives me hope at least that sometimes UTIs can be straightforward!
And of course the piggies are directing their scorn at you, that's always the way isn't it
So we have an Xray booked for tomorrow and possibly surgery next week depending on what shows up. Growing up, my parents wouldn't spend much money on vet bills, so I got used to a frugal attitude when pigs were ill, and have the guilt of being 'extravagant' hanging over me now as an adult..but what else could we do? If he doesn't have treatment, then he might die in pain and his brother will lose his companion.
(Actually this all gives me a rare insight into how quick and efficient healthcare can be - not knocking NHS staff of course, just the contemptuous goons masquerading as our government!)

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

Gives me hope at least that sometimes UTIs can be straightforward!
And of course the piggies are directing their scorn at you, that's always the way isn't it
So we have an Xray booked for tomorrow and possibly surgery next week depending on what shows up. Growing up, my parents wouldn't spend much money on vet bills, so I got used to a frugal attitude when pigs were ill, and have the guilt of being 'extravagant' hanging over me now as an adult..but what else could we do? If he doesn't have treatment, then he might die in pain and his brother will lose his companion.
(Actually this all gives me a rare insight into how quick and efficient healthcare can be - not knocking NHS staff of course, just the contemptuous goons masquerading as our government!)

Hope all goes well tomorrow. Try not to feel guilt about spending the money. It is only that you have been conditioned to feel that way. I am sure your piggy is worth every penny and it is the people who won't spend money to prevent/stop their pets suffering who should be feeling guilty x

 

[posthistorytocome]

Hope all goes well tomorrow. Try not to feel guilt about spending the money. It is only that you have been conditioned to feel that way. I am sure your piggy is worth every penny and it is the people who won't spend money to prevent/stop their pets suffering who should be feeling guilty x

Thank you that does make me feel better. He is really a lovely sunny, confident boy. Here he is (inc. a photo from before an unfortunate summer crop which seems to have killed the ringlets forever):

 

[Free Ranger]

What a lovely boy!

 

[posthistorytocome]

Thank you

He had his xray this morning and there is a small stone. He was calm and so didn't have to be sedated and I could take him home straight away, which I'm so relieved about. It was really not pleasant taking him in the carrier alone - they start to squeak for each other even if I hold one alone for too long. The vet said it was a good sign that he was eating (he scoffed a basil leaf on their table - should probably be off the menu now due to calcium content!). So we're going to keep giving Baytril and Metacam and encouraging him to eat and then on Tuesday it's surgery time.
I've found it so useful to read others' experiences here so will hopefully remember to keep updating. The total cost so far (for antibiotics, probiotic and painkiller, xray, two consultations) has been just over £200 which I feel isn't too bad.

 

[Free Ranger]

You're right - it hurts the wallet but it's not bad - about the same as other people have paid, and some charge significantly more. Where is the stone - in his bladder? Presumably not stuck in the urethra..? Could they see sludge too or has he been able to pass most of it?
If he's down for the surgery the important thing is to try and keep him in as tippy top condition as you can to give him his best chance.
Keep those guts moving fella

 

[posthistorytocome]

You're right - it hurts the wallet but it's not bad - about the same as other people have paid, and some charge significantly more. Where is the stone - in his bladder? Presumably not stuck in the urethra..? Could they see sludge too or has he been able to pass most of it?
If he's down for the surgery the important thing is to try and keep him in as tippy top condition as you can to give him his best chance.
Keep those guts moving fella

It is in his bladder and I don't think they saw sludge. But yes, he's eating well! I tend to wander in and out throughout the day (perks of wfh) and offer them the nicest bits of hay and he's been taking it with gusto every time which is great to see. Have also started him on Cystease. He's really grown to love the Metacam, I have to prise the syringe away!

So the surgery quote came through this morning and was approx. £1k which did seem pretty high given I've seen other quotes for about half that described as high. Perhaps I'm out of touch here? I jnow the cost of living crisis must be hitting vets hard. Anyway, the CCT then kindly recommended a piggy savvy vet (also on the forum's side recommended list) who is not too far and they can do it for less, so we're booked in with them on Tuesday.

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

Hope all goes well for him on tuesday

 

[posthistorytocome]

Hope all goes well for him on tuesday

Thank you