Guinea pig died 6 days after we got him

[Charlibob]

Hello there I stumbled across this forum as I was madly googling trying to find out what on Earth happened to our lovely boar.
We got two males 6 days ago from Pets at Home. We have been handling them for a short while each day and G1 had been calm and chilled whilst G2 has been a lot more skittish. We had them both out yesterday, G1 ate some nuggets from my daughter’s hand and was as sweet as anything. This morning my husband found him dead in the hutch, we are so devastated. Pets at home were not interested in why he might have died, they did not want me to bring him in. Their main concern was replacing him and as they had one lone boar left in store we have taken him (he is in an indoor hutch so we can keep him separate from G2 and introduce them slowly)
Last night there were fireworks nearby, not super close but we could definitely hear them. Is it possible that’s what killed him? Pets at home seem to think that’s what it was. We’re just so, so sad, and feel so guilty that we might have inadvertently done something wrong.
Has anyone had a similar experience?
Thank you

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m so sorry for your loss.
there could have been an underlying health issue but without a post mortem, it’s not possible to know.

one very important thing to mention is regarding bonding him with your piggy.
as they are presumably young, they need to be bonded with each other straight away (young piggies shouldn’t be kept separated), but you also can’t do it slowly. bonding piggies is a once and for all thing - not bit by bit. You need to put them in neutral territory (not one of their cages) and leave them for a few hours to bond. I’ll add some guides below to help you.

please check the sexes of both piggies to ensure they are definitely both male (pet shop missexing is common) and ensure you have a big enough cage for two boars - two boars need 180cm x 60cm/6ft x 2ft as anything smaller will not provide them with enough territory each, and while character compatibility is the most important factor in a bond, lack of space can contribute to fall outs (particularly amongst teen boars)

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

 

[Charlibob]

Oh wow I’ve been given the exact opposite advice by Pets at Home- they actually gave us an indoor cage and told us to put them together for a few mins each day and that it might take a couple of weeks before they can be in together?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Oh wow I’ve been given the exact opposite advice by Pets at Home- they actually gave us an indoor cage and told us to put them together for a few mins each day and that it might take a couple of weeks before they can be in together?

That’s completely incorrect advice. If they’ve given you an indoor cage, it is also likely to be far too small for two boars - 6ft x 2ft is the cage size needed for two boars to live together

if you put two piggies together for a little while and then separate them, all you do is interrupt the process. When you next put them together they then start right from the beginning ....every single time. They never get the chance to establish a relationship or hierarchy. All of this causes great stress to them. It needs to be a one time thing, success or failure

 

[Qualcast&Flymo]

I'm very sorry for your loss and the unpleasant shock of it to your family.

It's not impossible for it to have been shock from the fireworks noise if they're outside and it was louder there than you heard it inside, but I would have thought it unlikely.
What covers and protection from predators does your hutch have, and how old are your piggies?
It's not really a good idea to move piggies outdoors this time of year, as it's quite cold and the sudden change from indoor temps isn't good for them. I would be inclined to bring the surviving one in, he will be very lonely outdoors on his own.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I may have misread, I thought they were both indoors but in separate cages. If you’ve got one outside, then do try to bring him indoors for the rest of the winter, bond him with your new piggy in a neutral territory, and then have them both live together in a 6ft cage indoors. When it’s late spring time and night times are warm again, then they can move back outside for the summer time. Young piggies should not be outside at this time of year, it’s far too cold (guinea pigs need to be kept in an environment of around 18-23 degrees)

 

[Charlibob]

That’s completely incorrect advice. If they’ve given you an indoor cage, it is also likely to be far too small for two boars - 6ft x 2ft is the cage size needed for two boars to live together

if you put two piggies together for a little while and then separate them, all you do is interrupt the process. When you next put them together they then start right from the beginning ....every single time. They never get the chance to establish a relationship or hierarchy. All of this causes great stress to them. It needs to be a one time thing, success or failure

So the surviving one is in the hutch outdoors alone, the new one is indoors in a cage. The pet shop told me to put them both in the run (which is indoors currently because the grass is so wet) for a bit each day, but this is completely wrong?

 

[Piggies&buns]

So the surviving one is in the hutch outdoors alone, the new one is indoors in a cage. The pet shop told me to put them both in the run (which is indoors currently because the grass is so wet) for a bit each day, but this is completely wrong?

completely wrong. You need to put them together and if they accept each other, leave them together.
you cannot bring the one who is outside in and then put him back out again - it’s too cold for him to be outside at all and if you brought him in and out for weeks on end the temperature fluctuations would be so great it would make him ill. It’s also not how you do a bonding at all

 

[Siikibam]

You have to do it in one sitting or not at all. You also can’t move the outdoor piggy indoors. The temperature fluctuation isn’t good for them either. I would move the outdoor piggy indoors as you won’t be able to move the new pig outside now - it’s too cold to do so.

Have you double checked the sex of both?

 

[Charlibob]

I'm very sorry for your loss and the unpleasant shock of it to your family.

It's not impossible for it to have been shock from the fireworks noise if they're outside and it was louder there than you heard it inside, but I would have thought it unlikely.
What covers and protection from predators does your hutch have, and how old are your piggies?
It's not really a good idea to move piggies outdoors this time of year, as it's quite cold and the sudden change from indoor temps isn't good for them. I would be inclined to bring the surviving one in, he will be very lonely outdoors on his own.

Thanks for your message, it’s so upsetting. They’ve been outdoors from the outset, again I was reassured that this was absolutely fine, as they’ve got a proper hutch cover over the hutch?

 

[Charlibob]

You have to do it in one sitting or not at all. You also can’t move the outdoor piggy indoors. The temperature fluctuation isn’t good for them either. I would move the outdoor piggy indoors as you won’t be able to move the new pig outside now - it’s too cold to do so.

Have you double checked the sex of both?

They checked the sex of both at the pet shop... they told me I could Move the new one outdoors once they were bonded. Feel completely overwhelmed now that we are doing all the wrong things. We do not have the room to have the hutch indoors, I checked repeatedly that it was ok for them to live outdoors, with a proper hutch cover.

 

[jayne]

Sorry for your loss

But i would bring them in for winter where you can handle them and it's cold and damp and long winter dark outside !

 

[Charlibob]

So can we not even bring them in to handle them, and take them back outdoors again to the hutch?

 

[jayne]

If you bring them in then put them outside they might catch a cold and that will make them ill if done that

 

[Siikibam]

No you can’t. The temperature fluctuation between in and outdoors isn’t good for them. As I said above, you are better off bringing the other boy in because you can’t now put your new boy outside once they’re bonded.

 

[Piggies&buns]

So can we not even bring them in to handle them, and take them back outdoors again to the hutch?

no you can’t. It’s too much of a temperature fluctuation.

young piggies can’t be outside at all, even adult guinea pigs aren’t hardy but it’s so hard on youngsters to be outside. You can put them out in late spring and leave them out for the summer but the usual course of action is to then bring them back inside for winter every year. If you are going to leave them outside, then they need to ideally be moved into a shed Even then you need thermal hutch covers, microwaveable heatpads, loads of hay, plus a plan to bring them back inside if you can’t keep their hutch at 15 degrees.

 

[Piggies&buns]

My boar pair live in my shed year round and keeping them warm even in there with all its protection from the elements, is hard work. my shed stays, year round, 5-10 degrees warmer than outside and even in there they have two blankets on their hutch as well as two hutch covers (thermal), four snugglesafe heat pads. (Along with a spare cage for me to bring them indoors for the winter if it becomes too hard to keep them warm)

 

[Siikibam]

I’m sorry you were misinformed. I’m not entirely surprised though. (Some) pet shops aren’t up to date on care with regards guinea pigs. I would also double check the sex yourself because they’re known for ‘selling’ mixed sex pairs or piggies that are already pregnant.

I’m sorry you find yourself in this predicament. We’ve told you what is best and now it’s up to you what you decide to do.

 

[Merab]

Welcome to the forum.
I can only echo what others have said.
So sorry for the loss of your piggy.

 

[Charlibob]

I’m sorry you were misinformed. I’m not entirely surprised though. (Some) pet shops aren’t up to date on care with regards guinea pigs. I would also double check the sex yourself because they’re known for ‘selling’ mixed sex pairs or piggies that are already pregnant.

I’m sorry you find yourself in this predicament. We’ve told you what is best and now it’s up to you what you decide to do.

Thanks so much to you and everyone else. We have now moved the hutch indoors- our downstairs is totally open plan so I can’t really put it anyway “private”- will they just get used to the noises of the house like us talking and things like the Hoover?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thanks so much to you and everyone else. We have now moved the hutch indoors- our downstairs is totally open plan so I can’t really put it anyway “private”- will they just get used to the noises of the house like us talking and things like the Hoover?

thats great.

dont worry about noise, they will absolutely get used to it.

look at the bonding guides linked in previously and prepare for carrying out their bonding. you’ll need several hours for them to be in the bonding pen plus time to clean down the cage they are to live in together So it doesn’t smell of the previous occupant.

ensure the cage is definitely big enough for them - two boars do need a lot of room.

do be aware that a successful bond comes down entirely to character compatibility and mutual liking and as the piggies were bought on spec, there is no guarantee of a successful bond. They may be ok now while they are little but once they hit the teens (4-14 months) it’s always a risk. You will see a lot of dominance behaviours when they are in their teens but as long as there is never a full on blood drawing fight, then they should be fine

 

[Wiebke]

Hi and welcome!

Good that you have found us - but boo on pets@home. Unfortunately we are all too used to picking up the pieces as that is how many people find us. Sadly they are a shop chain interested in gaining a captive clientele first and foremost, so animal welfare and really learning about the species they are selling come a long way behind.

Please bring both boys inside and keep them there for the winter months if at all possible, as well as during heat waves when hutches can turn into death traps. Guinea pigs are not hardy and need to be treated like tender plants.

Please take the time to carefully read the green guide links. It is unfortunately a bit of a sharp learning curve for you right now, but it is worth getting stuck in as you will reap the reward in the coming weeks, months and years.
You can find all the links in our very helpful New Owners guides collection, which I would recommend you bookmark and use as a very helpful resource along the way. Our guides are specifically written for new owners. They address all the areas we get the most questions and calls for help for but also help you to learn what is normal and not. We have made the guides as step-by-step and precise as possible; especially in the tricky areas where most books tend to gloss over the sticky details that throw new owners. Our long term experience and nearly 15 years on a lively forum have gone into our guides with literally thousands of piggies passing through this forum.
Here is the link: Getting Started - New Owners' Most Helpful Guides

If you can, please bring your little boy inside for the night. He will feel very lonely and upset.
Please take the time to catch up with the advice and read up first. We are here to answer any questions you have along the way. Do your research re. housing, boars, bonding and diet etc. first before introducing on neutral ground, so you know what you are doing and why you are doing it. Don't panic and don't rush; you will get there. But what you have is two babies that are desperate to belong with another piggy, and one of them has had a very rough and frightening start.
Here are tips on how you can improvise: Temporary Housing Solutions?

Sadly we can't answer the unanswerable question for you. A sudden death points to a heart attack, a stroke or sudden heart failure, which all can unfortunately happen at any age. Your little boy may likely have had a ticking genetic time bomb in his body that was triggered by something like firework (another reason why indoors piggies are safer) or a predator worring the hutch... But we can only guess.
Here is more information, including resources to help your children cope with a loss: Human Bereavement - Grieving, coping tips and support links for guinea pig owners and their children

My own piggies are all indoors piggies and are totally used to the tv and all the other noises. You will find that you have got much more fun and interaction with indoors piggies. they become members of the family. Many an overwintering piggy pair has never moved back out again - and it is more often than not the protesting part of the family who insists on the staying!

 

[Charlibob]

thats great.

dont worry about noise, they will absolutely get used to it.

look at the bonding guides linked in previously and prepare for carrying out their bonding. you’ll need several hours for them to be in the bonding pen plus time to clean down the cage they are to live in together So it doesn’t smell of the previous occupant.

ensure the cage is definitely big enough for them - two boars do need a lot of room.

do be aware that a successful bond comes down entirely to character compatibility and mutual liking and as the piggies were bought on spec, there is no guarantee of a successful bond. They may be ok now while they are little but once they hit the teens (4-14 months) it’s always a risk. You will see a lot of dominance behaviours when they are in their teens but as long as there is never a full on blood drawing fight, then they should be fine

Oh dear we just completely cleaned the cage out and replaced everything except a bit of G2’s bedding/sawdust, as we were bringing the whole hutch indoors. So do we need to redo that all tomorrow? It’s not a problem if so, I need to get this right! New piggy is in his indoor hutch right by the “now“ indoors Hutch - is that ok?
I did read all those notes, thanks so much. I need to go back over it all. So tomorrow once we’re all home it will be about 4pm and new piggy will have been home for about 27 hours - is that long enough to try the bonding or should we give him more time?

 

[Charlibob]

Hi and welcome!

Good that you have found us - but boo on pets@home. Unfortunately we are all too used to picking up the pieces as that is how many people find us. Sadly they are they are shop chain interested in gaining a captive clientele first and foremost, so animal welfare and really learning about the species they are selling come a long way behind.

Please bring both boys inside and keep them there for the winter months if at all possible, as well as during heat waves when hutches can turn into death traps. Guinea pigs are not hardy and need to be treated like tender plants.

Please take the time to carefully read the green guide links. It is unfortunately a bit of a sharp learning curve for you right now, but it is worth getting stuck in as you will reap the reward in the coming weeks, months and years.
You can find all the links in our very helpful New Owners guides collection, which I would recommend you bookmark and use as a very helpful resource along the way. Our guides are specifically written for new owners. They address all the areas we get the most questions and calls for help for but also help you to learn what is normal and not. We have made the guides as step-by-step and precise as possible; especially in the tricky areas where most books tend to gloss over the sticky details that throw new owners. Our long term experience and nearly 15 years on a lively forum have gone into our guides with literally thousands of piggies passing through this forum.
Here is the link: Getting Started - New Owners' Most Helpful Guides

If you can, please bring your little boy inside for the night. He will feel very lonely and upset.
Please take the time to catch up with the advice and read up first. We are here to answer any questions you have along the way. Do your research re. housing, boars, bonding and diet etc. first before introducing on neutral ground, so you know what you are doing and why you are doing it. Don't panic and don't rush; you will get there. But what you have is two babies that are desperate to belong with another piggy, and one of them has had a very rough and frightening start.
Here are tips on how you can improvise: Temporary Housing Solutions?

Sadly we can't answer the the unanswerable question for you. A sudden death points to a heart attack, a stroke or sudden heart failure can unfortunately happen at any age. Your little boy may likely have had a ticking genetic time bomb in his body that was triggered by something like firework (another reason why indoors piggies are safer) or a predator worring the hutch... But we can only guess.
Here is more information, including resources to help your children cope with a loss: Human Bereavement - Grieving, coping tips and support links for guinea pig owners and their children

Thank you so much for your lovely reply, he’s indoors now I will read all those things, thank you.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Oh dear we just completely cleaned the cage out and replaced everything except a bit of G2’s bedding/sawdust, as we were bringing the whole hutch indoors. So do we need to redo that all tomorrow? It’s not a problem if so, I need to get this right! New piggy is in his indoor hutch right by the “now“ indoors Hutch - is that ok?
I did read all those notes, thanks so much. I need to go back over it all. So tomorrow once we’re all home it will be about 4pm and new piggy will have been home for about 27 hours - is that long enough to try the bonding or should we give him more time?

You can bond them whenever you are ready.

they will need to be put into an area that neither of them live for their introduction - the bathroom for example - and left in there supervised for several hours to establish their relationship. Once successful, you need to clean down the hutch they are going to live in together (so yes all new bedding again). You can then put both of them into the hutch to live happily together

is the hutch big enough for two boars - what are its measurements?

 

[Wiebke]

Oh dear we just completely cleaned the cage out and replaced everything except a bit of G2’s bedding/sawdust, as we were bringing the whole hutch indoors. So do we need to redo that all tomorrow? It’s not a problem if so, I need to get this right! New piggy is in his indoor hutch right by the “now“ indoors Hutch - is that ok?
I did read all those notes, thanks so much. I need to go back over it all. So tomorrow once we’re all home it will be about 4pm and new piggy will have been home for about 27 hours - is that long enough to try the bonding or should we give him more time?

No you don't have to replace it all. just sprinkle a bit of your new boy's bedding around the hutch so both boys' scents are present when you move them in.

You can find baby and boar bonding videos in our bonding guide, which takes you through all stages of the bonding process in detail, including the two weeks post-intro dominance phase.

 

[Tangle]

Thanks so much to you and everyone else. We have now moved the hutch indoors- our downstairs is totally open plan so I can’t really put it anyway “private”- will they just get used to the noises of the house like us talking and things like the Hoover?

They'll definitely get used to the noise of the house - our 2 girls live in an open cage under the TV in the main living space. In addition to the TV we have an oboe, piano, french horn and multiple cellos being practiced most days. Plus general household noise. They sometimes have floor time under the music stand and come out and "answer" my DD's cello as she plays .

 

[munchmonster]

I do hope it all goes well for your piggies. Please enjoy getting to know them, it is very rewarding for them and you. I send them my best wishes for a happy life with you. x

 

[Charlibob]

I think the bonding is going well! They’ve been in the run together for about 45 mins, they are being very vocal and chirping/chattery, they have both been eating the hay, lots of sniffing, a bit of humping, and both settled near Each other to clean themselves - all good I hope? The thing I can’t work out is, how will they settle for a nap together with me in here?

 

[Charlibob]

Also - for them to settle and be still but not next to each other - is that ok?